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February 23 2004

"The show isn't going to be saved". David Fury on the end of Angel, its chances of survival and what really happened between Whedon and Levin (via a writeup of the Wolfram and Hart Revue at veggibelle's LJ).

The pics are up. Holy hotness. Not only is the journal-writer herself pretty damn cute (hope you don't mind my saying so, Veggiebelle), she nabbed pics of Julie Benz, James C, Leary, Mark Lutz, the slave (who, going by the expression he's wearing in every single pic people have taken of him, makes me wonder if he acted more like a prop than a guest. Did he speak much? Anyone?), Drew Goddard, Johnathan M. Woodward, and Andy. Very cool.

That is a pretty awesome poster to own.
This Levin guy sounds like such a f*cking d*ckhead.
I hope David Fury's "The show isn't going to be saved" is just an even more pessimistic version of Joss' "it's a long shot" comment.
Gulp. Yeah that was harsh. So it's actually one of the cheapest shows on TV, and STILL there's no chance of someone picking it up? Confused. All due to the reality tv crapola? Now I hate it more than ever.

Well there must be SOME chance or they wouldn't even be creating that proposal they already said was in the works. And UPN would've just said 'no' straight off the bat instead of having no comment yet.

I choose to cling to my last slivers.....
*sniff* I want Angel! I hate when my shows get cancelled! Sorry, I am very angry and feel like throwing a temper tantrum. I'm very childish I know but I hate evil people who cancel shows. It reminds me of "the popular kids" thing in high school movies where no matter how the "loser" (Joss Whedon, not a loser in the least) sucks up to( cuts up the budget, makes more MOTW eps and adds Spike to the equation) the "cool" kids (evil WB execs or whoever cancelled my show) they still ruin his life (cancelling the show .... well it ruined my life!)! OK, well that was my little lame anlysis but I am very sad :(
Now I know why Firefly wasn't picked up after it left FOX - can someone get these guys into a sales and marketing class. Or for the love of god bring back Gail Berman and Garret Davies - I think those are the two - they can sell a show. Hell if it hadn't been for Gail there would have never been a Buffy on TV. Joss and staff may have created shows we loved but Gail and Garret knew how to sell them to a network.

David - love him but he's nuts there are a lot of shows that move networks after 5 years and are successful granted most are comedies but Buffy picked up stakes and moved after 5 years - so it's already been proven it can be done. I don't know if David is just still smarting after the cancelation or what but you would think he'd know by know to think before he speaks - you can either chose to encourage people or discourage them - and his words tend more to the latter then the former. Here's hoping he speaks from a grieving anger position and not from a position of resolve.

Cause I for one think we can prove to Hollywood once in for all that we are the ones who control it and it does not control us. We will not follow the masses blindly into the pit of oblivion and we will fight to our last breath to ensure great and lasting entertainment for the furture generations to come. Ratings, shares, and the Nielsens be damned.
Raven...I think David was only refering to HBO and its penchant for realatively "fresh" shows...So is $2,000,000/episode considered cheap? This is the amount I found from Twientieth Century Fox Film Corporation, 2001 for AtS production budget...I am quickly thinkning that TNT will be AtS best bet for a "stay of execution"
If you consider the average drama lasts at most seven years, picking something up for season six, at roughly $2 million an ep is a really big gamble for almost any network these days. By the time they've trained the non fanatical viewer that the show has actually moved networks and time slots, season six is over. Then it's time for the wrap up season. Not worth it.
'Cable channels and the "netlets" really can't afford to take it on. The major networks and HBO and their ilk won't either. They might have had a shot with an HBO if the show was only two or three years old, but after five seasons? Won't happen.'

Simpleba ... I think he was refering to all of them not just HBO and he is right to some extent, they do not normal want to take on aging shows when they can make new ones cheaper but Angel is not aging like other shows age - not many shows after 5 years have the ability that Angel had to be fresh and inventive as it did this pass season.

TNT is a sister station to the WB so I don't know but I would hope. I still think UPN or even Spike TV would pick it up - for a few reasons one of them being Angel is filmed at Paramount Studios thus they would lose out on that payment if the show did not return - so it would cost their parent company money either way.

Also 2 million an episode is cheap for a cast that size and the production cost no wonder more people are doing double duty. I can imagine 2 million an episode would barely cover the West Wings actors salaries.
Surely we aren't going to let this stop us from continuing with the campaign. We don't know exactly what was said so I don't think we should take it as gospel. David is probably still smarting about it all, after all it is still early days. I just wish that Joss would give us some sign of what he has planned, if anything.

I, for one, will continue with the campaign until we know for certain one way or the other. I hope that the rest of you will join me.
I think the campaigns must continue. This was a great report by one very lucky fan but until there's some official announcement or statement made to the fans to cease and desist with their efforts, I think it's jumping the gun to just give up.

You would hope, too, that someone important from the ME camp would officially tell those who are spearheading the campaigns and working their butts off and raising loads of money that all their effort is for naught. You'd think ME would be gracious enough to do this if there were absolutely and completely no hope.
My hopes have been dashed. I can't believe I'm saying this...but I'm preparing myself for the end. I have to do that now or it will be too much to take. Once again my pessimism has won out. I wanna cry.
I hope David Fury is just into the acceptance stage of grief right now and will soon swing into the denial/angry stage like me (with shades of depression, of course). I just love how in statements about the "decision not to renew", Levin made it sound like he was being so generous and benevolent in giving everyone the news sooner rather than later. So if Joss Whedon hadn't asked him to sh*t or get off the pot about renewal, they would once again have had three months of uncertainty with a cancellation at the end of it? Okay, now it's more pure anger.
Don't give up hope just yet! Carry on with the campaign until we have official confirmation from ME one way or the other. I am preparing myself for the worse, but I won't give up hope until I have too. Keep fighting!
Ouch. Not that one statement to a fan is The Word or anything, but I hate hearing it straight out like that. Still, this won't keep me from sending out my letters/faxes/e-mails/carrier penguins to the UPN offices about a week ago or anything. Maybe it's denial, but don't tell me "Angel" is dead yet...you take your six feet under, I'll keep my hope and faith, thanks.

[ edited by VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt on 2004-02-23 16:38 ]
Good on you, VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt! Love your name by the way :-)
I was also there Saturday night and Mr. Fury said the same thing to me. The show is not going to be renewed or picked up by another network. Heartbreaking, but true. We can only hope that he is mistaken.
Forgot to mention that David Fury also said that Sarah Michelle Gellar would not be appearing on the show before it finishes.
Now i am very confused! But either way I say continue in the battle to save Angel! Its worth it! Can someone please answer my question which has confused me even more: why wont sarah michelle geller appear in angel?! Thanx!
Initially SMG said she would when Buffy ended but when asked a few months ago she said it was too soon. Right now she is in Japan filming the movie the Grudge which I believe will be finished sometime in March and then she'll be back in the States promoting the release of Scooby Doo 2. I don't know if she's been asked again since the annoucement of the end of Angel and even David Fury said in this interview that he didn't think she'd be able to because of her current situation but it doesn't sound like she'd have much time. I don't know when Angel would be filming it's final few remaining episodes (I had heard they had already filmed up to episode 18 when the annoucement was made so that only left four to go).

Also, I agree with him that it would be more interesting to have her not come back and choose either Angel or Spike because whoever she chooses you're still going to have a bunch of disappointed fans.

In my opinion, I'd love to see her come back, especially if Joss had a special ending planned that only her presence there could make happen. I loved her with both Angel and Spike and they are Joss's creations so I'd be happy with whatever he decided to do (unless of course she shows up and falls madly in love with - Lorne!!)
I couldn't care less anymore wether or not Buffy makes an appearance. It's just paled in comparison to the actual woes of the show being a goner.

I understand what Fury says, but according to his logic hardly any show would ever be saved or moved and we know it's happened plenty of times.
I don't want her to come back. I would rather have that question remain unanswered forever because there is no possible way to satisfy everyone. Having just seen the series finale of Sex and the City, I think that trying to give viewers what they want and a push down the road to happily ever after only leads to the life being sucked out of characters. It seems forced and false. Joss Whedon seems pretty clever at leaving the audience wanting more. Kind of ironic given the current situation. While watching the finale of SatC, I couldn't help but be a bit overwhelmed by how different it feels when a series goes out on it's own terms. I just kept thinking Stop crying! Your stories have been told! You made the decision to end it! You saw it was coming!
Bitter, selfish me.
Thanx blwessels! That has cleared that one up for me! I do wish that Sarah would make an appearance though as i think if this is angels last series then it is only right. But at the end of the day I believe Joss's story is more important and as long as he gets to tell it the way he wants to I have no problems! Lets hope he gets to tell it though...........
I really hope UPN come to there senses and pick Angel up! Have you guys all signed the petition??
I don't want SMG back on the grounds that she has lost it. Her heart would not be in it and it would bring the whole thing down. She thinks she has her big movie career now, let her have it. I'd prefer to see Alyson, Nick B, or Seth rock on in... or Eliza again (at least she has always been grateful for what the show did for her!). Faith in the finale! Yeah!
I agree, I would much rather see Xander, Willow,Oz or Faith on the show before I would Buffy now. The whole way she treated her show in the end "Remember she didn't even go to the cast wrap party" She is going to be one of those people that now that she thinks she's going on to bigger things the thing that made her a house hold name is not good enough for her anymore.

What I think would really be the best way to wrap up Angel would be that Giles comes to him and talks him and the rest of Angel's gang to come back with him to England and become the new head council for the Watchers. They could use Spike and Harmony to torture the bad guys. I know Harmony would love that since she had no qualms about slapping Eve around when everyone else was all we can't do that were good.
Oh, I think SMG would be into it if Joss gave her a really cool storyline (if they had time to do it which they don't). It certainly won't be for any reunion crap (with either souled vamp).

I kinda like the idea of Buffy coming back to stake Angel because he's eeevil now and she couldn't get there any sooner because Fashion Week in Milan was too important to miss. Spike dashes in to stop Buffy, but he's too late , but calls for the medevac team stat to save Angel's life, while Buffy freaks out some more 'cause "uhm Spike what the--?" Then Spike and Buffy will start pummeling each other and break Angel's office door/windows in the process. Then they'll realize what they're doing and start humping on Angel's boardroom table instead. Of course, afterwards, or 6-7 orgasms afterwards, they'll both feel horribly guilty for enjoying themselves while Angel is fighting for his life. So they both decide to tell Angel they love him, but by then, he's fallen for the brilliant blonde heart surgeon (played by special guest star Mrs. David Boreanaz) who saved his life. Then Nina shows up and doesn't like Miss Playboy Centerfold Heart Surgeon cutting in on her turf, so she goes all werewolfie and rips them both to shreds while Buffy and Spike make out in the waiting room.

Or Buffy walks in on Spike and Angel naked in bed together (under perfectly innocent circumstances, naturally). Which is a lot more likely than any happily-ever-after scenario from Joss.

Oh, and Gail Berman has bigger fish to fry these days than Joss' shows. She still gets producer credits on AtS, but she's fricking head of Entertainment for Fox Broadcasting.

Fury is probably overly pessimistic, but the ME team have been dealt some tough hands in the last year. But it's not just that. It's the changes in the networks and the air of desperation when the suits are even more clueless than usual. It is all about marketing and ME does need some major marketing brain in their corner.
Yeah I'm on board with the idea of Angel ending with Spike and Angel in bed together. Angel would find out he actually can have perfect happiness...with a man! If they got married (since gay marriages are "legal" in CA right now) and one of them got the Shanshu they would have to share it. So Spike and Angel ride off into the Shanshu sunset and live happily ever after.

Afterall, didn't Fury say that Spike and Angel is the true love story of the season? Awww...
I have decided to take anything Fury says with a grain of salt .... remember back in the begining of the season when he talked about the budget cuts hits this season took and because of those they were not going to do any flashback stuff between Spike and Angel - well he was wrong about that - cause we got Destiny and Why We Fight. He also said there would probably be less effects,well I think there has been more effects this season than some of the previous ones - so you know what I think what ever Fury has said of late has went just the opposite - so maybe he's trying to keep that trend going.

:)

Ok so I'm an optimistic pessimist.
Let's pretend that Joss has a broken heart too -- not a stretch, right? He could fix the "Xander disappearing in Season 7" problem as a fitting adios. Xander is him, he is Xander. JOSS ENTERS RIDING ON A SKATEBOARD... JOSS EXITS HOLDING WEREWOLF GIRL'S HAND. After all, *pushes metaphor* Joss gave up an eye for the wisdom he learned from BtVS. If the show is ending, then end it with dignity ("not kicking and screaming like his passengers").
I would LOVE to see Joss in a cameo in the Angel finale. That would be awesome! Would that be something they'd keep secret to surprise us? That idea rocks!

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