Faith's Surname.
If anybody really wanted to know. Not sure it was needed really. (Joss mentions why he chose it in the comments section).
First post of the year, and it's something I have very little interest in, but hey....
Happy New Year Everybody, lets hope it's a better one for the whedonverse than last year.
January 01 2005
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Simon | January 01, 12:17 CET
Slayer | January 01, 12:22 CET
Grounded | January 01, 12:26 CET
Interestingly enough (maybe), Eliza is from Boston. And the guy who wrote "Mystic River" is named Dennis Lehane...okay, I'll stop now...
Chris inVirginia | January 01, 13:10 CET
TheJoyofZeppo | January 01, 13:11 CET
Jackal | January 01, 13:28 CET
And with Eliza's darker, more exotic looks, Faith would have made a perfect opportunity to mix it up a little. Instead we get Lehane. Isn't Joss aware that there are white folks in the US from other parts of Europe than Northern Europe? I like the Irish additions - Liam, Riley Finn, Doyle - just fine, but we didn't need another one. Disappointing and boring.
sari | January 01, 13:57 CET
Wha? You think they should have crowbarred in some ethnic diversity just for the sake of it?
Grounded | January 01, 14:31 CET
"Origin Displayed: Scottish
Spelling variations include: Lyon, Lions, Lyons and others.
First found in Norfolk where they were seated from very early times and were granted lands by Duke William of Normandy, their liege Lord, for their distinguished assistance at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 A.D.
Some of the first settlers of this name or some of its variants were: John Lyon settled in the Barbados in 1634; Mathew Lyon settled in North Carolina with his wife Mary in 1775; William Lyon settled in Boston in 1635; Bernard, George, James, Jane, John, Mathew, Patrick Lyon all settled in Philadelphia between 1840 and 1860."
Simon | January 01, 14:37 CET
I need to think about it. My first reaction was to say it`s too "repipi" for Faith. Sorry, but i can`t find the same word in english.
Happy 2005 for everybody!
[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-01-01 21:42 ]
Angel TheVampire | January 01, 14:38 CET
Anya was from one of the baltic state's or what would become them in her ,Aud's ,future
garda39 | January 01, 14:41 CET
Faith | January 01, 14:41 CET
Chris inVirginia | January 01, 14:45 CET
Gaudior | January 01, 15:13 CET
sari | January 01, 15:46 CET
Lehane. Well, as far as names go, I don't have anything against it. What I'm really curious about is what William's last name was. Besides 'the Bloody' of course...
Rogue Slayer | January 01, 16:03 CET
But in the end, what does it matter anyway. I'm curious to see if Joss will ever use it, in comics or otherwise...
EdDantes | January 01, 16:11 CET
I'll admit I am biased being Irish but the character is from Boston and according to your earlier post there are equal numbers of Polish,Italians and Irish in Boston so I don't see how it is forcing another Irish name in
And as for ED not looking Irish DB wasn't really Irish yet he played an Irish character
garda39 | January 01, 16:27 CET
Grounded | January 01, 17:20 CET
Biff Turkle | January 01, 17:27 CET
And it's Rogue Waladarsky. In full.
joss | January 01, 18:23 CET
jewel | January 01, 18:27 CET
[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-01-02 01:36 ]
[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-01-02 01:37 ]
Firefly Flanatic | January 01, 18:31 CET
Anyway, ta very much for posting and giving your reason behind the name :). Much appreciated.
Simon | January 01, 18:41 CET
Caroline | January 01, 18:46 CET
Simon | January 01, 18:55 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | January 01, 19:00 CET
Craig Oxbrow | January 01, 19:06 CET
palehorse | January 01, 19:12 CET
I like "Lehane." It evokes character-appropriate darkness what with the Dennis Lehane thing. And while ED looks very Albanian to me, a Southie with an Irish/Scottish last name needn't be 100% Irish/Scottish. I imagine Faith to be a mix just like most Americans.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2005-01-02 02:51 ]
phlebotinin | January 01, 19:48 CET
kylie | January 01, 19:50 CET
Hey Joss, is it official that Connor's last name is "Angel"? Thats what it says on his birth certificate in Season 3, episode 10.
eddy | January 01, 20:06 CET
If Joss happens to stop by again, would you like to resolved another Faith debate? How old is Faith and is Faith older or younger than Buffy?
FaithFan | January 01, 20:27 CET
Chris inVirginia | January 01, 21:16 CET
Very true, phlebotinin. Hey, has anyone ever heard of the so-called "Black Irish"? They're said to be the descendents of surviving Spanish sailors from the Felicima armada that were shipwrecked on the northern and western coasts of Ireland in the fall of 1588. Survivors were taken in by Irish natives, some of whom intermarried and had children with the distinctive dark eyes and hair of Mediterranean ancestry, along with either the fair skin of Northern-European Irish or the darker coloring of the Spanish mainland. (Isn't that all nice and text-booky? :) Celtic influence in the genes can also produce dark hair, but more typically it comes with a pale-ish complexion and blue or blue-gray eyes. (As a North Carolinian of German-Scots-Irish ancestry, I fall into this latter category.)
There's lots of other theories about the Black Irish, though, and if you've got a mind to investigate (or confuse yourself further), try this forum.
I can grok Lehane. It's uncommon, just like Faith herself. But as a person who was constantly trying to distance herself from her past, it wouldn't really matter what her name was; because her last name would have symbolized her identity at a time in her life when she felt powerless, it makes sense she wouldn't want to identify herself with it later on. Maybe she thought, "Lahane -- not striking fear in anyone's heart, but Faith? World, look out." ;)
Regardless of origin and meaning, me like. I think you done good, joss. And what's this about you and role playing games? *cough* I love that you're such a uber-geek. Makes me feel better about my ownself! And while we're talking monikers here, just what is Angel's human surname, anyway? Was there ever one in mind? Or is the jury still out?
Wiseblood | January 01, 21:21 CET
I have heard of that term but nowadays in Ireland if you mentioned that term people would tend to think of the inhabitants of Montserrat who are well known ,because of a tv programme, as all having very Irish names eg Sullivan,Collins,Fitzgerald etc and also accents that sound Irish.
The story apparently behind them having such accents and names is that when their ancestors were brought there as slaves the white people in charge were mostly Irish and down the years as marriages occured the names stuck around
garda39 | January 01, 21:59 CET
I personally think Lehane works, if only because I keep on pronouncing it as ' La Haine ' - french for The Hate and also an excellent French movie about the Paris slums. Kinda suits Faith, I think.
biki | January 01, 22:03 CET
And no, I'm not Italian. German/Irish/English Heinz 57 blend. Just about everything caucasian you can imagine. Hmph. Not very exotic, I know.
Willowy | January 01, 22:30 CET
As for the need for more ethnic diversity in Buffy? I couldn't agree more. Xander should have turned out to be black in the fourth season.
The cynical would have had a field day with that one.
Gonnas | January 01, 22:33 CET
Dawar | January 01, 23:38 CET
My three step children are part Hispanic, but are all blue eyed blondes. My sweetie's genes were pretty dominant there. From Sandy: welcome to the melting pot!
[ edited by dcubed on 2005-01-02 07:20 ]
dcubed | January 02, 00:10 CET
Firefly Flanatic | January 02, 00:20 CET
buffbuff | January 02, 00:39 CET
FaithFan | January 02, 01:25 CET
Plus I want to know Angel's last name too.
charisma | January 02, 02:23 CET
Madhatter | January 02, 04:36 CET
As usual there is room for different interpretations.
jpr | January 02, 04:52 CET
Anyway, nice to finally giving Faith a surname, maybe it'll be a first step to exploring more of her backstory. I always wondered how was her family, and how her first watcher approached her years ago, and her journey to sunnydale. Even if didn't turned out as some tv series or movie special, it would be a very interesting comic book mini series.
Numfar PTB | January 02, 07:39 CET
Caroline | January 02, 07:44 CET
Madhatter | January 02, 08:56 CET
Willowy | January 02, 09:59 CET
Caroline | January 02, 11:16 CET
BufSlyAngel | January 02, 13:41 CET
And going back to Angel's surname...Jones!? Surely not! (Just as well it wasn't Spike's surname; cool though he is).
SweetMarilyn | January 02, 13:49 CET
Hehe, a well-known southern name of course....Still beats "Ana Marie" in my book but that's a different story;-)
Funny thing is, 'Lehane' sounds so french to me. I'm sure it's Irish but it sounds french and that's why I have this 'Louisiana' feel with it. Which shows my ignorance in these matters. But it's funny because it kinda fits for me since I always felt Faith as a character may have had some roots in the X-Men's Rogue, like there's some snippets of Kitty in Buffy or Willow.
Funny. As for Spike and Angel, I've always wondered why no one ever noticed they basically had the same name. 'Liam' is the irish abbreviation of 'William' right? So they were both 'Williams'.
Ahh, they're long lost brothers! No wait, that's not right....
EdDantes | January 02, 14:18 CET
Caroline | January 02, 14:34 CET
JPR, just spent New Years with my brother (who lived in Sweden for many years) and his teen daughter (who is Swedish, and a Buffy fan) and I asked if the dialogue in Selfless was actually Swedish or gibberish. She'd never seen it so I dug out my DVD and we watched it. They both burst out laughing and said it was "Very bad Swedish, or it could have been how it was spoken a thousand years ago"
As to Ms Lehane, I like it. The danger with anything that has been a mystery for so long is us rabid fans are so curious that anything that is finaly revealed is almost certain to be an anti climax. Unless it turned out to be "Wyndam-Pryce" of course.....
zz9 | January 02, 14:44 CET
It is the Gaelic version of William rather than an abbreviation
garda39 | January 02, 15:07 CET
Then I read some more posts today and realised it's growing on me. Give it some time and it sounds more natural, I suspect.
giles (yes, it is my real name) | January 02, 15:15 CET
KnightFire | January 02, 17:19 CET
It definitely adds something to her character. It makes her more real and less Madonna.
[ edited by charisma on 2005-01-03 02:07 ]
charisma | January 02, 19:06 CET
I'm not saying this is a bad thing (I could talk about anything Buffy for the rest of my life), just curious if everyone would've done this if it happened a couple of years ago (I'm a relatively newbie to the world of Joss).
buffbuff | January 03, 02:50 CET
I dont agree with
Very bad Swedish, or it could have been how it was spoken a thousand years ago"
To me it sounds like swedish from actors trying their best with a unfamiliar language.
From another angle, I can hear nothing in there that is not swedish, the reference to the baltic woman is a comparison.
Personally I like the idea of Aud ( and Olaf ) being swedish, despite her attachment to the political philosophy of the day.
YMMV of course.
and Faith Lehane works for me.
jpr | January 03, 04:22 CET
[ edited by Madhatter on 2005-01-03 12:16 ]
Madhatter | January 03, 05:14 CET
And William's last name was..??
(Anybody who says "The Bloody" gets something sharp pounded into their cranium...)
Bad Kitty | January 03, 08:19 CET
lissie biff | January 03, 10:32 CET
So Lehane is official now then? Well, works for me. After all this time of her just having a first name any surname tacked on the end of "Faith" is going to sound a little strange for a while. Kinda like suddenly having to get used to Bono Smith, hehe.
As for how you pronounce it, i'm guessing that it will something along the lines of "Le Hayne", at least that is how it sounded out in my head when i first read it.
The Arcane | January 03, 11:15 CET
Caroline | January 03, 12:57 CET
Yep, Faith's last name (and Kendra's) were devised for a roleplaying game .. . actually two roleplaying games--the Buffy the Vampire Slayer roleplaying game (btvsrpg.com) and the Angel roleplaying game (angelrpg.com). The most recent supplement under production involves the Watchers. As Watchers span both series, Tea and Crossbows: The Watcher Sourcebook will be our first cross-branded product (Buffy and Angel). Come to think of it, rather than the Buffyverse or Angelverse or even Slayerverse (as we started calling it around here), maybe we should be calling the Buffy/Angel storyline (and any that follow in the future) the Watcherverse. Lord knows the Watchers Council would prefer that.
In truth, that's part of why we needed surnames for Faith and Kendra. The Watcher sourcebook will include a history of the Watchers that spans recorded history and beyond (they do claim decent from the gaggle of old guys who created the first Slayer). Since the only records of that history are those maintained by the Watchers, you can see the huge potential for bias in reporting (if not, you haven't been paying attention to the Watchers much). Also, the tone and presentation of that history follow Watcher wont (i.e., stuffy and formal). In our view, "Slayer Faith" and "Slayer Kendra" didn't fit at all. Not only would the Watcher-recorded history include their names (if the Watchers don't know, who the heck would?), but they would use it. They certainly wouldn't make an exception to appear particularly "chummy" with either of those two, as neither can be counted among the Watchers' greatest triumphs. Slayer Summers was "indeed severely trying and undisciplined," but at least she got the job done for many years. The other two were either "ineffective or extremely counter-productive."
In any event, we had created surnames for both Slayer and were prepared to go that route but decided to see if we could get a definite ruling from the PTB on the issue. Lo and behold, Joss spoke (and quickly we might add). We had hoped to keep the names under wraps as a selling point for the Watcher book sourcebook. Hey, we can dream, can't we? Should've known the word would get out. What the hey, part of why Buffy/Angel fans are the best.
Thanks for listing. Check out the roleplaying games. Keep the Watcherverse alive!
AlexJurkat | January 03, 14:39 CET
Eventhough I don't play RPGs, I have to say YAY to anything Watcher-related. Now all we need is a TV series to go with it...
Caroline | January 03, 14:40 CET
So, now Faiths surname has been sorted out, what's Snyders first name? Or was he christened "Principal"?
And Jpr, my brother said the "bad Swedish" comment while laughing at it, and the show. Since we were watching the episode we didn't talk about it again so he may have been joking.
[ edited by zz9 on 2005-01-04 00:20 ]
zz9 | January 03, 14:52 CET
Now if they can just film it in the UK so that Anthony would be willing to come back as Giles as the lead character that would be perfect, hehe.
The Arcane | January 03, 14:55 CET
Firefly Flanatic | January 03, 14:58 CET
electricspacegirl | January 03, 15:15 CET
I know, it's a sickness...
[ edited by k8cre8 on 2005-01-04 00:07 ]
k8cre8 | January 03, 17:01 CET
The mystery deepens.....
zz9 | January 03, 17:26 CET
Just a massive little hint, but a Faith series would be also really really good Joss!!!!!!! And all us fans would watch it!!!!! Pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssseeeeeeee!!!!!!! Also y'know if you want to challenge yourself, I've heard Ripper is a very good idea, and a ten part series on the BBC featuring ASH would be nothing short of brilliant. And then the ten part series 2 would be even better. And so on!!!!!!!
Apocalypse | January 03, 22:56 CET
Djungelurban | January 24, 11:22 CET