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April 10 2006

Iyari Limon on Buffy, Bisexuality and Adventures in Cooking. Fascinating and forthright interview with her over at AfterEllen.com. It's an extremely good read.

That girl is LIVING.

Good on her.
Wow, she's a lot more fun than I would have ever expected given the character. (Though yes, the character is supposed to be the fun and Faithy sort.) I think it's also sweet of her to be aware of the Whedon network and make decisions based on that even if there are so many bitter fans about her character... That part about how we follow stars like puppies regardless of the project is generally pretty accurate.

She's really candid though since she doesn't really care about the business and that's utterly facinating. Hope things keep working out...
It's certainly one of the most open and candid interviews I've ever read with an actor. Makes a very pleasant change. I was surprised to read that she was married once.
What an open young woman! It's so nice to read such an unrehearsed, honest interview.
Plus, dude, she was married to Pedro. Pedro!
Bad Kitty said:
"That girl is LIVING."

Man is she ever. Wow. She seems really cool. Wish I had even just half that much energy.

Thought she went on a bit too much with the complaining over how her ex-husband didn't help her out as much as she would've liked connections-wise, but it looks like she got all caught up in the revelations during the interview and it all kinda just came pouring out, so that's okay.

...her ex-husband who is frickin Pedro from Napolean Dynamite! Heh.

[ edited by Kris on 2006-04-10 10:35 ]
Man, she really voted for Pedro ;).

As has been said, very frank, refreshing interview. No games being played, just full and honest answers. Plus, she seems like quite the adventurer. Good for her.

(if she takes therapy I reckon she could skip a session or two, talk about disclosure ;)
There's a convention in Amsterdam? Oy.
What a great interview. One hell of a woman. Liking her a lot.
Good thing there is Whedonesque, Caroline. Otherwise how would you know these things?
I wish they had taken a little more care with transcribing the interview. For instance, the whole things about college and asking Joss was a little confusing for me.
What I got from the Columbia thing was that it would have been easier for her to get in if Joss wrote her a reccomendation, but he is picky and she stalled and it all worked out for the best cos she found cooking instead.

Maybe she did say too much in the interview- it was kinda like reading a summary of a diary- but WOW that was awesome. I didn't know she was so, um...brilliant? She just does what she wants, and she doesn't seem afraid or even hesitant about it. I wish Kennedy had 1/10th of her energy. I hope she doesn't retreat too much and does one of these every 5 years so we can see where she takes herself next.
This is probably the convention 'in Amsterdam' she refering to; "The Dutch Star Con" in De Duiventros, Berkel-Enschot (near Tilburg) on the 27th and the 28th of May. Not really in Amsterdam, but I guess she's travelling via Amsterdam Airport (Schiphol), so close enough. ;-)
Bwah, that's just MILES away from Amsterdam.
The way they cast Carmen on the L-Word does seem pretty fishy, but she seems to have taken it in stride. Good for her.
Thanks, very refreshing read! Iyari rocks. Since most actors seem to be completely sucked into the Hollywood machinery, it's great to see someone who is so self-possessed for her age. And being buddies with Paris Hilton? Uhm, probably not missing anything there.
If I can't leave my fans and friends with something that inspires them or some kind of positive message, then I can't do it. So I said no because though it would have been fun, there wasn't one thing in there that was meaningful in some way. So I didn't do it and it felt good.

I. Love. This. Actress.
This is an odd thing and not a comment on whedonesque folk since we all tend to be supportive, and I am not even remotely evangelical, being Jewish and all, but I find it ironic that Iyari refuses to do a role because if it has no meaning it does not feel good- and when Robia LaMorte does the same thing for religious reasons some people get on her case. Of course, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out, what with Iyari coming out and all. Just a comment on our times. :-)
As for me, I am loving this girl as well, even if I got a few mixed messages in that interview. LOL.
Good interview.

A Kennedy question to the crowd. I always thought the timing of the Kennedy/Willow relationship was misjudged by Whedon & Co. If Whedon & Co. had kept it as a lowburn flirtation that only turned to a relationship in the last episode or two, then this couple would have played better to more people. Any takers on this concept?
A Kennedy question to the crowd. I always thought the timing of the Kennedy/Willow relationship was misjudged by Whedon & Co. If Whedon & Co. had kept it as a lowburn flirtation that only turned to a relationship in the last episode or two, then this couple would have played better to more people. Any takers on this concept?


I suspect I might be going off topic, in which case I apologise and will gladly edit this message to delete my ramblings, but here is my take on Kennedy:

I must admit that when I first watched S7 I wasn’t immediately very keen on the Kennedy character. I guess I struggled to understand her “purpose”, apart from being the pushy one who became Willow’s girlfriend and liked the sound of her own voice when confronting authority – as well, of course, as being stupidly brave and kicking some serious “Chakka Khan” ass when called on to do so.

For a while I couldn’t quite get past to the fact that Kennedy had barely been in Buffy’s house for five minutes before she was trying to get into Willow’s pants and I wondered if it was absolutely necessary for Willow to have a new girlfriend in this final season. For some fans this was undoubtedly a serious problem. The death of Tara had been a very contentious one, but even putting that to one side, there was a feeling that Willow and Kennedy just didn’t fit together comfortably and there was never any time allowed for Willow to mourn properly. This is something I have never particularly agreed with, although I have wondered in the past about the compatibility of Willow and Kennedy as a “couple”, questioning where Willow’s motivation (for want of a better word) is coming from.

Repeated viewings of S7 have helped me understand the narrative of the storyline much better. I can appreciate now how important the relationship really is, but I think the danger is simply viewing it as that (a relationship existing outwith the overall narrative) and not looking at the wider picture. Kennedy can be annoying because she is pushy and mouthy. As Faith kind of puts it, “Score one for the boarding school brat.” The point that I initially failed to understand is that she needs to be like this to get through to Willow. The very first thing she does is to push Willow into their relationship, which is a very important step for Willow to take.

We need to think back to something Willow says in ‘Lessons’:

Giles: “Do you want to punished?”
Willow: “I want to be Willow.”

In order for Willow to be Willow again she needs to be able to forgive herself for what happened – not just what she did after Tara was killed, but actually stop blaming herself for Tara’s death. This is never actually directly spoken of in the show (it’s wrapped up in terms of her ‘grief’ over the death of Tara) but I think there is a genuine case for saying it happened. Willow stops living. She feels unbearable guilt, for all sorts of reasons, but she is never able to grieve in a way that is healthy and allows her to move on. In this respect it is tempting to go back to what Buffy tells Dawn in ‘The Gift’ and Dawn repeats back to Buffy in ‘Once More With Feeling’.

“The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.”

Kennedy gives that to Willow, but not just because she becomes her girlfriend, although that is part of it. She is there for Willow during ‘The Killer In Me’, one of the most important episodes in the season and one that I’ve always thought is cruelly misunderstood and undervalued. As much as Willow might give Kennedy plenty of reasons to back off, she won’t. She’s in Willow’s face the whole time and that is something she repeatedly does throughout the season after her arrival. It’s easy to get sidetracked by the fact she is forever (seemingly) opening her mouth without thinking when confronting Buffy, but that is all to do with her belief in Willow - and she is equally prone to badger Willow, just in a slightly less antagonistic way.

By the time of ‘Chosen’, Buffy’s profound belief in Willow and what she represents becomes very clear and is, of course, of extreme importance. However, it is Kennedy’s belief in Willow, more so than Buffy’s, that actually gives her the strength to break free of her metaphorical shackles (reference back to ‘Get It Done’) and believe in herself enough to believe in Buffy’s belief in her (sorry, horrible sentence, but hopefully the meaning is not too confused). And there is something else important here. Kennedy shares her strength with Willow – strength in this case coming in the form of belief. Once again, the theme is followed through.

If Kennedy were another Tara, or even another Oz, it is conceivable that none of this could or would have happened. Tara would always be there for Willow when it mattered and would always support her. The same is more or less true of Oz. But would they be able to break down her barriers and get through to her in this particular situation with no previous history? The answer, I think, is absolutely not. They would probably do what everyone did with Buffy in season six – they would “give her time”, which is actually not what she needs. Kennedy is completely different. She isn’t about to wait. She doesn’t back off and give Willow time to deal with her issues, she makes her deal with them… and she can only do that by being the person she is – very forward, very pushy, very self-confident and determined to get what she wants.

It’s largely because of Kennedy that Willow becomes Willow again, the thing she tells Giles she wants to be at the very start of the season.
Interesting, but I have one problem- Kennedy knew nothing about Willow at all at the time she hit on her the first time. Kennedy did not respect Willow's loss or even her use of magic; in fact, she had no understanding of magic at all. And I viewed Willow's commetn that you quote above as more in the line of returning to who she was, not so much as forgiving herself for what happened. That is not so easily done. But I enjoyed your analysis and I wish I had more time to argue it with you- but work calls, darn it!
I really admire Ms. Limon for coming out. I wish we didn't live in a world where you have to be courageous to be who you are, but it seems that we do, and this woman has not just the courage to be open about her sexual identity, but also the courage to walk away from Hollywood success when it wasn't satisfying or positive.

I agree some of the things she said in the interview might have been info overload/"too much information" ;-), but she really *rocks*! Yay Iyari!
Interesting, dashboardprophet, and I'll need to keep that in mind next time I run through S7. (Which unfortunately won't be for a while, as I just did it a month ago and I'm way backed up on other stuff. Like finishing my paper for the Slayage conference.)

Dana5140, I understand what you're saying about Kennedy having no history, but here approach to Willow was very much "want, take, have." Credit to Kennedy for being able to adjust to the history and magic issues as she learned about them, but there was never any question about Kennedy being a wallflower.

I liked Kennedy from the beginning. I think that "Kennedy the Vampire Slayer" would be a fascinating television series.

As for Iyari Limon, fine interview! I loved it.
I'm trying to think of a way to say this without encuring the wrath of the loyal whedonesque posters... I didn't think there was anything spectacular about that interview. I'd go so far as to say I disliked the interview. I just didn't find anything particularily interesting in it. I probably would have stopped reading it half way through but everyone else here seemed to love it so much that I gave it a chance.

I didn't like the character Kennedy either. I thought the whole thing with her and Willow seemed... I suppose forced is the word I'm looking for. (Note: Not forced on the acting level, the acting was great on both sides. It's the plot point itself that I had some contention with.)

[ edited by war_machine on 2006-04-10 21:20 ]
I think that Kennedy worked fine as a narrative device. I agree with dashboardprophet's analysis about the Willow needing to be forced to move on, and that that was even important for Willow as a character. I just found the Kennedy character annoying as hell. I don't really know who to blame for that, but I lean toward the writers, as their handling of season 7 wasn't exactly spectacular despite having a lot of great themes to work with.

Despite that, of course, Iyari seems like a really cool person and this was a great interview.
Well, here's the thing: Serenifly returns to TV. Zoe's new love interest is introduced. Would people freak out? Definitely. Zoe could be dating a great, interesting, lovely bloke - and everybody would hate him for about the first few years. (I call this the 'Oz' effect). I don't think Kennedy had chance to be on screen long enough for people to _love_ her. And I don't think that was the intention, anyway: I think the writers wanted to show Willow moving on -- with somebody completely different to Tara. Were people ready for that? Probably not. Which is why moving on from things is so hard in life. See also: the browncoats. It's a theme 'o life.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-10 21:40 ]
I have a different view, one that I have shared before. Kennedy was brought into the show after Joss and Marti decided that Willow needed to stay gay, but at the same time they wanted a character that was the anti-Tara; no surprises here, since they publicly stated all of this. But given the compressed time frame for S7, they had little time to develop the relation, and they were fighting a great deal of fan resistance. I personally felt that the relation did not work at all. I thought that Willow was not given enough time to grieve her loss- when Giles went to see her in England at the start of S7, there was not even a mention of the most important person in Willow's life, and it was really not until we saw Willow at Tara's grave that the show even acknowledged again her (Tara's) existence (or now lack of existence)- and that was a few eps into the season. I also felt that by writing things this way, they did not allow the fans to grieve Tara's loss- and that was also important. Kennedy signaled her interest in Willow nearly from the get go- in fact, from the first time they interacted. And yet, how could Kennedy even know that Willow was gay? And the time frame from that occurance to them getting together in TKIM was only a couple of weeks or so. Kennedy was a brat, yes, and she went after what she wanted, which is very much anti-Tara, at least tactically (I would argue Tara also went after what she wanted, but in a much more oblique fashion; for example, signalling her interest in Willow after Hush by noting how special she was, but in such a way as be able to act as though it was not a come on). Things just happened too fast for a woman who had undergone what Willow had undergone- and I think it would have been better for Willow to be able to cast her activation spell without having to rely on another person at all- but do so out of her own strength.
Nice interview. Joss totally should have written her a recommedation though. He could have based his next series off it. ;)

Dana5140, I think the reason Kennedy knew Willow was gay was because a lot of gays or lesbians think they can identify when someone else is gay too. Hence Willow's mention of Kennedy's "lesbidar". She may have caught Willow checking her out or something. Or maybe she just thought she was cute and took a chance.

Personally I can see that perhaps Kennedy was important to confirm Willow's sexual identity and that Tara wasn't just a phase, but I also think it served a more important point to illustrate that Willow will not be miserable for the rest of her life. Had the series ended on that note, I for one would have been pretty disappointed, not only because it would have been unhappy but it also would have been unrealistic.

Yes, of course Tara would always have been an important part of Willow's life and she would never forget her, but neither would Tara have wanted her to grieve for the rest of her life. Kennedy was the writer's way of saying, yes Willow's in pain and yes Tara was hugely important to her, but life has to go on.

And I think had they left it longer to introduce the idea of a relationship between Willow and anyone, then it would have seemed kind of an afterthought, say if she met a woman in the final few episodes, or hooked up with Kennedy then, we would have got the impression that it wouldn't be a proper relationship or that it wouldn't be as important to Willow. I did feel her relationship with Kennedy did move fairly quickly but it felt quite natural and unforced, and they gave it enough time to say, "Look, this might not be as important as her relationship with Tara was, at the moment, but it has potential" and that Willow will love again. And I think that gives a much stronger statement in terms of Willow's happiness and the empowerment of women in the show.

I also thought that the lead up to Willow and Kennedy's kiss was kind of cool. Kennedy made it fairly obvious that she liked Willow in a flirty way, but nor did she force Willow into a relationship with her, and by that stage we know Willow have been very upset over Tara's death and was only beginning to rebuild her life. And it's not that she didn't feel guilty at all, as one would imagine you might feel after the death of a partner, at evidenced by the transformation into Warren, but the show dealt with that by implying that Willow didn't get consumed by that devastation and that it was Kennedy who managed to pull her back from the edge. And that can only be healthy.
I don't think it's just the Kennedy/Willow relationship that bugged fans, but the handling of the Willow S7 storyline as a whole. After the S6 finale, I wanted to see her spending more time with Xander in S7 - instead, they barely had any significant scenes the entire season. The line, "I want to be Willow," is such a nice sentiment, but if they'd followed through on it by emphasizing the Willow/Xander friendship the final season, I thought that would have been better. S6 showed that Xander could bring Willow back to herself better than anyone else, because he knew her so completely.

I felt generally that Willow had a million issues that could have been dealt with more elegantly if the show hadn't spent her S7 screentime all on Kennedy, though. The Killer In Me is a decent episode, but I remember while watching it, I was just thinking, "If Willow were going through a similar storyline with Xander instead of Kennedy, someone who actually understood the magnitude of what she was going through because he knew Tara and about Warren, this would have moved this episode up into one of the highlights of the season." Instead, I just felt using such an important storyline to push the Kennedy/Willow relationship felt forced.
That really was a great interview. And she was married to Effen Ramirez (woulda said Pedro, but the dude does have an identity! :-P)? I just hope she's never in a Napoleon Dynamite movie. Because I hated that film.

Anyway...

About Kennedy. I agree with dashboardprophet's interpretation of the character and her importance to the overarching narrative...but frankly, that doesn't matter so much because the character herself sucked. Kennedy never felt like a fully-formed person to me, only as a plot device and a lackluster substitute for Tara. This is NOT to say that I don't want to see Willow with anyone else...I always loved Tara, even though everyone initially hated her for taking the place of Oz.

I also didn't like how the writers made her specifically and solely gay, without ever dealing with her previous relationships or sexual orientation. That sort of cheapened her prior involvement with Oz and Xander. On Six Feet Under, David is of course entirely homosexual, but the series still managed to deal with the fact that he never fully accepted his own sexuality until rather late in the game, and had lied to and misled a woman for two years, a woman that he hurt greatly.

Which brings up another point about Willow: Her involvement with Oz and Xander was obviously not her lying to herself or trying to become someone that she's not; it was made pretty clear that she loved them, and not just in a "friends and caring" way. This makes Willow seem more of a bisexual than a homosexual to me (not to mention her, "Good thing I realized I'm gay, because here we are in formal wear" comment in "Hell's Bells," which was supposed to be a cute bit about her homosexuality, but came across like the writers were trying to repress who she was), and the fact that the writers didn't deal with this subject and stunted her emotional/sexual growth by doing so when they are usually so spot-on with characterization and so unwilling to go for the cliche disappointed me quite muchly.

(But, despite all of this, don't attack S7. I'll bite your head off!)
I'll leave S7 alone, even though I thought it was the weakest of all seasons. :-)

I think we had the is Willow gay or bi argument and not all that long ago. To me, gay. Xander was an ideal, and while she loves him, it is not in that way. Oz was her first, who will always be special, but was her entre into "cool" society. Tara was her real love, lost forever, or at least until the S8 comics come out (I can hope!). Kennedy was the transition person. They might still be in Rio as of Angel, but I can't see them together for long.
You could very well be right, Dana5140, but the way it was put onscreen was just very messy to me.

And I agree about Kennedy being the rebound person...I really do not see any long-term commitment there. Just gotta wait for the S8 comics...

(And, c'mon, S6 can't be better than S7!)

[ edited by UnpluggedCrazy on 2006-04-11 16:24 ]
I did not like S6 for many reasons, but I thought S7 completely lost its way, by forgetting its main characters.
See, I've never had that problem with S7. I don't see how it lost its main characters, because they were there in every episode being the people who I remembered them to be and growing.

And, also, I haven't disliked any season...S6 was just the weakest. However, on an episode-by-episode basis, there were several that I did not like at all, most in S6.
Season 7 fell apart somewhere not long after "Conversations with Dead People" (doubly disappointing 'cause it had a strong string of opening episodes) mostly because the Potentials resulted in way too many characters and faces and because The First Evil ended up sucking and being more bark than bite (they also never explained in any sense-making way why it waited until Season 7 to make a reappearance, despite the Eye Of Botox hinting at it being related to Buffy's resurrection or some damn thing). Also, the main characters didn't have enough interaction for many viewers' liking (Xander and Willow especially, see above argument from another poster about how Xander should've been Willow's rock in "The Killer in Me"--which yes, is a very good ep and one of only three or four that I flat-out love in Season 7, despite the retardedness of Amy's villainization).

There was also way too much of Spike's bullshit when we'd already gotten generous helpings of him in Seasons 5 and 6 (and 4). Don't get me wrong, I liked Spike those years, but with the exception of a few scenes, I really couldn't stomach the Souled-Spike storyline of Season 7/Angel Season 5. The result of a character getting way too popular for his own good.

The writing was much weaker, overall, IMO. I wish Drew Goddard had written more of the eps, or if Firefly and Angel Season 4 hadn't been going on at the same time, Joss having written them would've been nice. Y'know...in the series' final and arguably quite important season.

I couldn't pass up the chance to get some Season 7-hate in, despite the fact that this thread'll be pushed off the page pretty soon. I haaate the majority of Season 7's episodes, but I did like "Chosen" as the finale, despite feeling some serious relief at it finally being over...It's been a while though, so I'm willing to see what Joss has in store with the comic book mini-series continuation.
Hate is such a strong word, don't you think, Kris? ;) I dislike with some intensity (driven by disappointment and frustration) a handful of S7 eps: Help, Never Leave Me, Bring On The Night, Showtime, possibly Empty Places. And even those have some good bits, but really fewer and farther between than previously.

But I have come to make my peace with the more serious, more literal, less oblique, less witty season that is seven. It kinda is Buffy's seventh age: "Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste," but not quite sans everything. There's still much to cherish.
Not so much. I felt that pushing aside characters like Willow and Xander in favor of a bunch of faceless potentials was a terrible error, and it is one that both Joss and Marti Noxon have alluded to. Anya was sent to the side save for her two big eps, and Willow was a vastly reduced shadow of herself for the season. Xander was relegated to the side. We got military Buffy for most of the time, with way too much exposition about what it means to be a leader. We did get Caleb, who was worthy of hate, and we had a different Spike, whom I never much cared for. We did not have Tara, who was my personal rock, and we got Kennedy, who was everything Tara was not, and not all in a good way. And we got splintered writing, with some new writers who had little sense of the arcs and characters they wrote for. IMHO. :-)
SNT said:
"I dislike with some intensity (driven by disappointment and frustration) a handful of S7 eps"

If you "dislike with some intensity" that sounds like hate to me, or at least very close to it. Otherwise I would've just said I dislike Season 7, but...no. I dislike, say, the fact that Faith's return (especially in her Buffy eps) wasn't quite what I'd hoped it'd be, though I'm glad they got the Mayor in there. I disliked that, hated Season 7's plot blunders, the way it handled most of the main characters, and the Potentials...the fact that it tarnishes what could've been, IMO, an overall solid seven season complete series.

"I have come to make my peace with the more serious, more literal, less oblique, less witty season that is seven."

I haven't re-watched yet. I watched some of Season 7's repeats while it was still airing, during the off weeks, but I haven't gone back to it yet. Haven't done any complete season viewings at all of any of Buffy or Angel's years, though I watch the odd random repeat that's sometimes on SPACE early in the am. I'd like to do a complete Buffyverse re-watch eventually, probably with someone who's either never been into it or one of my friends who'd be willing to go through it all again. Then maybe I'll be able to reassess Season 7 on DVD with some good perspective, not having to wait a week or more between episodes and getting to Angel Season 5 right after might help.
I loved season seven almost as much as I loved season 6 (the best season of all IMHO). I'm an oddity, but I'm ok with that.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2006-04-12 09:11 ]
And we got splintered writing, with some new writers who had little sense of the arcs and characters they wrote for.


The only new writer in S7 that I can think of was Drew Goddard, who I always thought was a very popular addition to the writing team in the opinion of most fans. Certainly, 'Selfless' and 'Conversations With Dead People' (to which he contributed) are two of the more popular final season episodes.

Perhaps you are referring to Drew Z Greenberg (who joined in S6) and wrote 'Him', 'The Killer In Me' and 'Empty Places', three episodes that I know many fans struggle with, although I happen to think they are all superb.

I must admit I can get upset when I see words like "hate", partly because I love S7 so much (I just don't understand the criticism that some of the core character were somehow "sidelined") and partly because it is such a shame that fans of the show felt let down to this degree at the end. However, I guess that's the way it goes and I count myself as lucky that I adore all seven seasons.
I do think season seven was very different in many ways.

One of the things which I really disliked about seasons six and seven was relatively minor, but annoyed me all the same, was the kind of diminished importance of the Buffyverse mythology. You had demons appearing and their name or species wasn't mentioned, or there were times when the supernatural aspects of the show weren't explain enough to fit in with the established mythology, like the idea of The First attacking at that time, and why exactly Buffy's resurrection made it choose 2003 to end the world. I still don't understand exactly how Willow turned into Warren. At least I do on a superficial level but it doesn't make much sense to me.

Then you have the plot holes left hanging, such as exactly why Amy is forgotten about at the end of "Killer in Me" even though she would more than likely want to attack Willow again, or how Willow and Faith know that Caleb was attacking a potential when they returned from LA. Or why no-one had the idea of smashing Anya's pendant to avoid killing her in "Selfless", or at least make up a reason for it.

But I didn't have a major problem with these kind of things, which were more due to a lack of attention to detail. I did dislike the way characters I felt much more interested in, like Xander and Anya, were overshadowed by a whole punch of new characters like the Potentials, Wood, Andrew, and yes, Spike. Don't get me wrong, I like Spike as much as the next person, but not at the expense of other characters. There was a strange sort of feeling during season seven of a large group of people which was intentional but definitely took away from the existing characters.

However I have to admit I really loved season six and it is one of my favourites upon reflection, definitely up there with seasons three and five. It's just so dark and interesting, with so many varied episodes, even if there are one or two I'm not crazy about ("As You Were" and "Doublemeat Palace" spring to mind).

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