Am I the only person who wasn't surprised by the plot twist in the last episode? When I saw the first episode of this season, the first thing I said was: the President ordered the hit.

gossi | April 10, 23:38 CET

No, you weren't the only one, gossi. I suspected it was he early on.

palehorse | April 10, 23:43 CET

I saw a TV.com article suggesting the last episode 'Jumped the shark', along with Lost. The article writer got a lot of hassle, unsurprisingly, for writing it. Although I think they had a point about Lost. I suppose the entire point about 24 _is_ to jump the shark every episode.

gossi | April 10, 23:45 CET

To me, 24 jumped the shark in season 2, when a cougar chased kim bauer (well I guess it would be "jumped the cougar", then...).

The first season was a good idea, and succeeded in its premise; and then, we producers forgot that you can't just have a concept and that, though it might appear as a silly idea at first (but, hey, let's explore!), you also need those people called "writers".

And even if I think Fury is a good writer, I doubt he manages by himself to "wipe out" three terrific seasons following the first.

Le Comité | April 11, 00:04 CET

So she gets to call him Principal McHottie and my The Nathie wasn't approved?!? This is a...not good thing. ;)

Andrew Tom | April 11, 00:32 CET

I'm still pretty happy with 24 and the fifth season is in my opinion one of the best so far. David Fury and Manny Cotto are great additions to the lineup of producers/writers. So other people who still like 24 might be happy to learn that the show was just renewed for 3 more years, ie 3 more days in hell for Jack Bauer :) (with the possibility of a movie for summer '07)

Yorick | April 11, 00:54 CET

I've never liked the show until this season. I think it's so over the top and unbelievable that the only way to go is to relish in its over-the-topness and unbelievability.

Manny Coto's episodes have been great and of course Fury's the effin' man.

And the whole Indestructible Jack Bauer thing is getting hilarious.

"If Jack Bauer were gay, his name would be Chuck Norris."

TheZeppo | April 11, 01:19 CET

Yeah, I love the Indestructible Jack Bauer (blowing up a natural gas plant while he's still in it, and walking out just a bit dirty). I think JB may be the coolest character on TV today (apologies to Vic Mackey). Somebody with skills should put together a clip of Jack with the "Shaft" theme playing over it, retitled "Jack".

jam2 | April 11, 02:07 CET

Exactly, TheZeppo. It's a guilty pleasure show for me, but a fun one to watch. I thought last week's episode involved some of the worst writing, most contrived plot points, and most blatant manipulation of characters and plot for misdirection yet. But for the most part I've enjoyed this season, and feel like as long as you don't expect it to be realistic, to have great continuity, or to be anything other than over-the-top scenes of watching Kiefer yell at the top of his lungs and threaten to torture people, it's a fun show to watch. I'm thoroughly enjoying it, even though it will be interesting to see the writers explain away the gaping plot holes they've created with the most recent twist and prior misdirections. In the end, I doubt they will, satisfactorily, but as long as it continues to be entertaining, i don't really mind.
That's the only show i can say that about....

acp | April 11, 02:19 CET

I've always been a fan of 24 but this season is easily the best so far IMHO. I read today that Kiefer has signed up for 3 more seasons but I've no idea how they're ever gonna top this season.

Paul_Rocks | April 11, 02:26 CET

Honestly, I think Jack's going to die at the end of every season. And sometimes, he does.

acp, I'm right there with you. The problem I've had with the show in the past, the reason it didn't grab me, was that it took itself too seriously. All those extreme closeups and heavy, mindnumbing music just kept me rolling my eyes. This season's really turned it around and has kept the intensity at its highest.

Jack frickin BLEW UP a couple episodes ago and emerged FROM THE FLAMES CARRYING A GUY TWICE HIS SIZE OVER HIS SHOULDER. And then he wiped away his burns and charred skin with a wash cloth.

"Jack Bauer would be off the Lost island in 24 hours."

TheZeppo | April 11, 03:11 CET

I really enjoy this season's 24, and I have enjoyed seasons 1-4 also. It is quite a guilty pleasure for me. I truly love some of the lines Jack says, and especially the lines that Chloe has to say. I laugh out loud sometimes.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you." GREAT LINE!!!


I'm glad that Keifer renewed his contract for 3 more seasons because it's the ONLY show I watch religiously seeing there is no Whedonverse show on TV.

whedon is GOD | April 11, 03:38 CET

That was a good line, but the best was when he threatened to take out Cummings' eyes. "I'm going to take out this one, and then the other one..." or something. It was hilarious.

TheZeppo | April 11, 03:40 CET

I love 24, which may be because I haven't seen previous seasons so I'm not getting bored with any of the plotlines that others are calling very repetitive. I do think that the show has value beyond being fun to watch: the show is also good at creating a very real feeling of fear in the viewer's head (at least for me). Every second of the show I'm always nervous about what's going to happen next- I've never felt this way while watching any other show.

vampire dan | April 11, 04:16 CET

Can I just say that I really HATE the entire concept of "jumping the shark". I read that TV.com article yesterday and it amazed me just how stretched and ludicrous the entire shark jumping concept has become.

The article is a good example of what I'm talking about. The examples given are nothing more than one particular person's dislike or misunderstanding of a certain plotline. This dislike then turned into a need to vent a little by means of an internet based article which needed a hook. The author then decides that because two shows happen to have dared to do an episode that they didn't exactly like or really get then clearly it's time to throw out the jump the shark warning signs.

However, in both cases mentioned, the plots given as examples were hardly unusual or out of the ordinary for the shows in question. Maybe a little more suspension of disbelief might be required to accept them but that isn't the same thing as suggesting that a show has reached it's own saturation point and that it's all downhill from here on out. Lost has only been on our screens for a year and a half. How little potential do people really think the show has to offer? How quickly are they going to turn on a show if it doesn't always please them?

Not only that but anyone who has taken the time to look around sites dedicated to shark jumping will be well aware that one man's shark jump is another man's television gold. For every viewer that loves Once More With Feeling there will be another that absolutely loathes the episode and never watched Buffy again after it aired.

I get that it's just a little fun, for the most part, but it sometimes seems to me like people are only watching a show to wait for it to fail. Like they won't be happy until they can say that it isn't as good as it used to be. It's true that some shows do go on way too long than they should but I also think that some people really need to stop expecting perfection from every episode of the shows they watch and just enjoy them for what they are. Unless of course they are only there to be disappointed. In which case, watch Charmed. That show didn't jump the shark, it landed on it's back and rode it off into the sunset.

As for the Logan reveal in 24, great twist but i have to admit that i suspected as much. Nobody who was really that idiotic could have made it all the way to President of the Unit ... oh, wait ... never mind.

The Arcane | April 11, 04:21 CET

Primeval, I think your critique was great until the 5th paragraph. Unfortunately, it then kinda lost its way, ultimately failing to live up to the promise of the sparkling 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. I kept reading until the end because I am (was) a huge fan but, well, color me disappointed. And I've got to disagree with those who think that the 4th para was the highpoint. In retrospect, it was the beginning of the end, quite literally.

Just a bit of fun. But seriously: I agree with your Jumping the Shark quibbles - and, for newer readers, it's a subject we've previously commented on extensively here and here.

SoddingNancyTribe | April 11, 04:35 CET

SNT, great joke, but it "jumped the shark" in the 3rd sentence when it became obvious what you were doing. At that point you shamelessly attempted to retain your viewership.

Oh, the little things that get me excited. :)

delirium_haze | April 11, 04:49 CET

I haven't been watching the show long, and so may not know what I'm talking about. I was a little put off by the plot twist because I thought the audience had been heavily, not at all subtly, manipulated to think the Vice President was the traitor. Still, I'm really looking forward to tonight's episode.

dreamlogic | April 11, 04:51 CET

SNT and delirium_haze, I think you are both totally wrong. Clearly the shark jumping took place in the early part of the thread, at the point where gossi mentioned the TV.com article. The discussion just never recovered from that point on. :)

Thanks for those links, SNT. I'll have a read of those earlier threads when I get chance.

The Arcane | April 11, 04:55 CET

Best. Episode. Ever.


Well...one of them.

David, you my boy.

Dolphin Tamer | April 11, 06:07 CET

Great episode tonight by David Fury. The only point I could conceid that the show had become too jumpingtheshark-y is about President Logan. That Kim Bauer can fight a cougar bare hand isn't jumping the shark, her father is indestructible, hello!, that's only genetics. But that a President of the United States of America would be so scheming and would use his executive powers to manipulate public opinion for his own interests is total science-fiction. Would never happen in the real world. Nonsense.

Yorick | April 11, 06:16 CET

Yeah, gotta go with Primeval on "jumping the shark."

As for 24 and the Logan reveal -- well, my take on that can more or less be summed up in the same way every ludicrous plot point on 24 can be for me: "What? Really? They're doing that? That's so frickin' silly, why am I still watch... Ohh, hey, coming attractions, what happens next week?"

RambleOn623 | April 11, 07:07 CET

As for 24 and the Logan reveal -- well, my take on that can more or less be summed up in the same way every ludicrous plot point on 24 can be for me: "What? Really? They're doing that? That's so frickin' silly, why am I still watch... Ohh, hey, coming attractions, what happens next week?"

See, I don't say jumpin' the shark in a bad way with 24 - because what you're descriping here is jumpin' the shark. It's silly. But yet you watch. Which is the point of 24, I think. It's so gloriously over the top at times (although Jack hasn't actually jet skied over a shark... yet - get on it, Fury).

This is one of favourite Whedonesque topics of recent times, by the way. Much with the funny.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-11 05:33 ]

gossi | April 11, 07:31 CET

Another good episode tonight, but I'm surprised to hear the show is going to be on for another three years. After killing Tony, I was sure this had to be the final season. And now CTU's all but gone and it's Jack vs. the President. How are they going to top that big bad? Are we going to see Jack vs. Galactus next season?

WindTheFrog | April 11, 07:48 CET

Next season will be called Jack vs FOX, in which he goes after those who cancelled Firefly, Arrested Development and Family Guy. It'll be hilarious.

gossi | April 11, 07:49 CET

And what keeps even the Presidential Twist from "jumping the San Jose Shark....mmm ok Los Angeles Shark" is that the character actor playing the President has been so delightfully weaselly(sp?)and pathetic. I enjoyed his dithering and his whining greatly even as I suspected it was all a red herring! Plus Chloe goodness..."Chloe, have you got a minute?" glare. "NO." I think Chloe is in my IT department at work. Hee!

k19 | April 11, 09:06 CET

I work in IT. I wish I looked like Chloe. You heard it here first.

gossi | April 11, 09:15 CET

Next season will be called Jack vs FOX, in which he goes after those who cancelled Firefly, Arrested Development and Family Guy. It'll be hilarious.

They'll only make a reality show out of it. Catch phrase to the person who's voted out each week? Oh, it's too easy: "You've been cancelled." ;-)

Was it just me, or did that movie they were advertising during tonight's 24, "The Sentinel," seem to have the exact same plot as this season of 24 (fed agent Kiefer goes after his former mentor)?

Oh, yeah, the topic. Actually, I have thought there has been lots of sharks jumped by 24 (example: Tony's been blown up! Oh, wait, he's OK! Hmm, where has Tony gone off to these last few episodes when we didn't need him? Oh, darn, he's been injected to death!), but I truly admit tonight's show was really superior -- the action was believable (although who couldn't tell in advance that the bank manager and Evelyn both were, er, not going to be made series regulars!), the characters were "in character," the dialogue was good & made sense (I liked when the bank manager recognized Principal Woodside -- yeah, dude, being the dead President's brother and all, like, why are you robbing my bank? -- that's what I would ask!), and, yes, Chloe snark -- snarky, snarky, Chloe snark. There really has been a difference in the eps written by DF. Yay David Fury! ;-)

PS, funny coincidence, gossi: I always have pictured you looking like Chloe. Especially the sneer when you snark. ;-)

billz | April 11, 09:20 CET

sorry, Gossi. Please forgive IT comment...no IT Slam intended. Only Chloe love. I swear I think she is the only person who would be able to run CTU without constant threat of takeover. She is destined for dictatorship. If not CTU perhaps some small island...maybe with Bob Dole in Guam.

k19 | April 11, 09:23 CET

I'm like Chloe: with a beard. Just call me Progressive Chloe.

Just wait until they kill off Chloe! Then you know they've jumped the shark into orbit. Or a bit higher.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-11 07:25 ]

gossi | April 11, 09:24 CET

Oh, don't even joke about it, er, Progressive!Chloe! If they kill The Snarkful One off, I'll be so over that show. It was bad enough when they iced Edgar, so, please, let's just not give them any ideas, eh? Let's all think the happy thoughts that k19 suggests, where Chloe gets to run CTU since everyone else has already had a turn. ;-)

billz | April 11, 09:29 CET

David Fury reads this site, posts on this site occasionally, exec produces the show and writes episodes.

So, just to be clear: Stay away from Timmah Minear, Fury! Don't kill Chloe! Or well shall have a riot. Lots of love, Progressive!Chloe.

gossi | April 11, 09:32 CET

Yeah, DF: Progressive!Chloe means it, dude. I've seen him when he gets angry. You don't want to make him angry. You especially don't want to use your laptop after you make him angry. (IT, dude, he's in frickin' IT!)

billz | April 11, 09:37 CET

Yes. I have a beard, I'm angry, and I'm armed with the knowledge to make laptops explode (beard, dude: I'll make the terrorist joke today).

Actually, I could possibly try and get a guest spot on 24. I've always wanted to be tortured by Jack Bauer. Oh, god - I've let the fanfic leak over again.

gossi | April 11, 09:41 CET

*googles "fanfic" "gossi" "Jack Bauer"*

*clicks on link*

*reads*

*increases settings for family-friendly filter on google*

[ edited by billz on 2006-04-11 10:06 ]

billz | April 11, 09:48 CET

Is it really "jumping the shark," though, if it can be argued that the show's done it all along? Is that some kind of meta-jump: A show that exists solely to jump the shark, even in a good way? Does that make the shark meta, too? I only really ask because I've never had the chance to use the phrase "meta-shark" and really, really wanted to.

Having just spent the morning dealing with a server that wouldn't reboot and the attendant... ah, behaviors... of my colleagues, I get the IT snark. Ah, Chloe, you speak (or more accurately, snark) for so many of us...

RambleOn623 | April 11, 18:47 CET

gossi and palehorse: I had the exact same reaction after watching the first episode, in that President Logan was behind the Palmer hit. The fact that David Palmer wanted to talk to the First Lady about a matter of national security that involved the President pointed to that direction pretty clearly, in my mind.

I didn't buy the President not believing his wife because he thought she was out of her mind either - I got the sense that he knew exactly what she was talking about and tried to cover it up by blaming it on her mental illness.

The 5th day/season has definitely been the best of 24 so far, probably not completely unrelated to the addition of one David Fury to the writing/production team ;)

AngelEd | April 11, 20:03 CET

But it's that shark-jumping 24 logic again: "Omigod! The President is plotting to do many bad things, and I, the former President, have just found out! Whom shall I call to uncover this terrible plot? The Secret Service? CTU? Homeland Security? The New York Times? Oh, I know -- I'll tell his wife!" ;-)

billz | April 11, 20:25 CET

Note that I didn't claim there was anything resembling common logic in the 24 plot twists, I just commented on how I felt after the first episode. ;-)

One could imagine, though, that the situation in which Palmer found himself was pretty troublesome: Who to tell if the President is plotting God knows what? Especially if you don't really have that much proof. Not the Secret Service, whose primary objective is protecting the President. None of his former contacts (Jack, Tony, Michelle) worked at the CTU anymore. Chloe would've been the exception, but the problem of proving the President-is-a-big-frakkin-crook claims remains. And as I understood it, the First Lady and Palmer were pretty close friends, so him confiding in her wasn't that far-fetched.

Not that I watch 24 for its almost semi-realistic and nearly borderline-credible plot twists - I'm just enjoying the ride! :)

Kiefer Sutherland deserves some major props though for his portrayal of Jack "I'm back!" Bauer. The man has massive amounts of screen time, and he has really succeeded in creating a credible character regardless of the unbelievable things Jack is constantly going through. Four Emmys is more than enough, though. Hugh Laurie's due for one.

Oy with the poodles already.

AngelEd | April 11, 22:16 CET

Hey, yo, good news! Keeping alive our Chloe-Must-Live movement: If we can trust Ask Ausiello (and I believe we usually can), Ms. Rajskub is going to continue to be employed on 24 next season. Yay Chloe! :-D

billz | April 13, 02:34 CET