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April 23 2006

Serenity Fan Campaign. Some Browncoats are organizing a fandom wide mass purchasing of Serenity DVD on June 23 to show support for future sequels.

I have two copies of the BDM and went to two advance screenings AND another showing after it opened so I can safely say I'm a fan and would love to see a sequel.
But, I really don't think this is helping. The decision to greenlight a sequel depends largely on how many people saw the first on and how many bought the DVD and predicting how many people will see the sequel. Fans buying extra copies of Serenity in well publicised actions will simply make the studios say "Well, they won't do that again for the sequel" and ignore those sales. For a movie to be viable it must sell millions in a steady, ongoing, predictable, stream.
The performance of Serenity suggests that the existing fans saw it, often many times, but it just didn't reach a wider audience. That may have been due to advertising, the movie, the stars, the reviews, whatever. Stunts like this will reinforce any view that only crazy fans saw Serenity and no one else did.
Stunts like this will reinforce any view that only crazy fans saw Serenity and no one else did.

This is generally my concern. One of the motivating factors behind the Serenity Now/Equality Now charity screenings effort was the idea that until and unless the studio decides if it's worth one day making a sequel, it's up to us to find new a unique ways to enjoy what Joss has already had the opportunity to give us.
Unfortunately, this reminds me of the less than influential gas boycotts (hey everyone, pass it on, don't buy gas on June 32nd 2006 and Big Gouging Gas Company will be forced into bankruptcy). While well meant, it does not seem to have any true effect and neither, I fear, will this. I'm sure it was planned witht the best of intentions, but I certainly don't believe the ends will justify the means.
If the Browncoats couldn't get Serenity to be a box-office success then what chance does this campaign have? I think it's extremely ill thought out. I've seen some damn silly fan campaigns in my time and this is in the top three.
It's a shame, but I feel like I've all but given up hope of an on-screen continuation now. As much as the prospect of a new film fills me with giddy enthusiaticalness, right now I could just sure settle for some more books/novelisations set in the whole 'verse-y 'Verse. I wanna read about Jayne's past, gorram it!
And also who are these people? Why are there no contact details? Why no advice on where is the best place to buy the DVD so it can register highly in the charts? You don't launch a fan campaign and just have "oh let's all buy a DVD and Universal will give us a sequel". And also is Joss willing to make a sequel in the couple of years? I imagine his schedule is fully booked with Wonder Woman and Goners.

This will tarnish the fandom as a whole and make it look like mere amateurs.
I think this is a case of a lot of new fans to the 'verse that have heard of actions taken by fans in the last few years. I am guessing that they want to be a part of the story, but really don't know what they are doing. I'm over it and am eagerly awaiting every scrap of info on WW that comes my way.
I've pretty much distanced myself from this effort as, quite simply, I don't think it'll have the effect people think it can have. It's not on me to rain on peoples parades, of course, I'd just say other things are probably better ideas.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-23 01:16 ]
Just out of curiosity, does Joss get a cut of the DVD sales?
Well, at least their heart's in the right place. But, yeah, seeing as we have a fair amount of people who all know a fair amount of people in the fandom right here, and seeing as we don't know who's behind this effort, I'd say it's at least odd.

If I were organising a thing like this (and I wouldn't, because I don't think this type of campaign works), I'd at least make sure I had the support of some of the major websites in the fandom and/or speak to people who've done this sort of thing before (because I've never done something like this before and neither, I suspect, have the people behind this) and maybe even try to get into touch with Joss (or people who work for him - are there still people who work for him?) to see if this is the right time for a major fan effort.

Unfortunately, I think this is just doomed to fail and it might even hurt the fandom more than anything else. If Universal gets this open letter and thinks "hmm, let's check out the sales for the 23rd" and there's no significant spike (since most of the fandom didn't feel this was a campaign worthy of their time), it's no help. We just look like a small bunch of [insert word of choice here] making a whole lot of noise without the numbers to back it up.

And if it does succeed, I think they'll just be happy to shift some extra units, but I hardly think that it will count for something in the decission towards getting a sequel. Because if us browncoats get our way and we get a sequel, who's to say we'll have more of these organised efforts to buy those DVDs after the fact (although, granted, most of us would want that trilogy). What's more, our numbers have already proven insufficient at the box office the first time 'round. No, Serenity needs to slowly boost its sales in a natural word-of-mouth way, become a minor DVD cult hit and hopefully, somewhere along the line, some exec at Universal will say 'hmm, why don't we make another one of these' and then, if and when Joss and the cast feel it's the right time and place to do it, we might get a sequel.

This, while obviously a product of the best intentions, just gets us nowhere.
Yeah, as others have mentioned I don't think a one day spike is likely to get Universal to greenlight a sequel. Continued good sales over time, resulting in a ever growing fanbase is more likely to convince Universal to greenlight a sequel.

Instead of trying to convince existing fans to buy the DVD that they likely already own on one particular day, a better campaign would be to do something to keep the interest in Firefly and Serenity going to get new fans.

Both Firefly and Serenity DVD's still seem to be selling decently and my hope is that this continues for the next couple of years, while Joss is working on Wonder Woman and Goners. Hopefully by the time those two projects are wrapped up, someone at Universal might take another look at the overall DVD sales and greenlight a sequel.

Also hopefully by that time they release a special edition of Serenity in North America, as that's something that would get me to buy another copy of the DVD. I want those extras seen on the Australian version plus a full cast commentary that Joss has mentioned he would still like to do in several interviews, would also be really cool.
I agree that it may well be new fans who feel the need to do something. There are not all that many cities doing the June 23rd charity screening and so all these people are left out in the cold,wanting to do something. I sympathize. (Even if I am organizing one of the charity screenings.)
GVH said:
What's more, our numbers have already proven insufficient at the box office the first time 'round.

Exactly. Basically, this was done once before, on 9/30/2005, and the full weight of the Browncoats was rather underwhelming. It became very clear to me that day that our massive love and loyalty don't translate into massive numbers.
Ok
I am going to say this once and only once.
This is not a COMPLETE site! It is under construction. I have been exchanging emails with the organizers of this campaign for the past week or so, and they assure me there is plenty more that has to be put on the site. that is a placeholder, the campaign is being worked on, there are components are not all set. One thing that is not on the site, as part of the campaign is to donate DVDs to libraries...etc... another component not on the site is to have a concerted effort to market the dvd poster etc... increase the size of the fandom... encourage the new browncoats to show the dvds to others. I am going to email the organizer....and I am pretty sure she is going to tell me she doesnt want this site posted on whedonesque. It is not ready!
I agree with Matt_Fabb. I don't think now is the time for Universal to make any decisions. The numbers just aren't there yet and the fandom is still small compared to the big 2 (Trek and Wars). I'm not saying the fandom will ever get that big, but I give it several years to grow into something more solid, solid enough to catch Universal's eye (again). At that time maybe Joss' plate won't be so full.

I agree with gossi, that there are other ways to help spread the fandom. Loan out your DVDs and talk it up! That's how it's done. Not like this.
It should be noted that this drive was and is being discussed and the details could be found on fireflyfans.net where the campaign is first being formulated.... for people who actually read there they will know what I mean. And I think all of he people are passing judgement on not a completed product(especially since the campaign has only been drawn up in the past week or 2!!!!!!).

This is what I posted on the browncoat army thread on serenitymovuie.org forum, dunno if anyone bothered to read this:

----------------------------------------------
But I believe its more than just a spike in sales... thats one aspect of it. ... its a way to motivate browncoats to publicize the movie(just the way the release of the movie motivated browncoats).... either by buying the dvd from a local vendor and talking about it ... or putting up posters across town, or motivating people to tell their friends/coworkers etc to check out firefly /serenity and buy the dvd.... or to donate movies to libraries.

It also gets a way of motivating the fandom. So what, we motivate browncoats to buy 1000 DVDs around that time. lets say if there was no campaign, half of them would buy it anyway, but maybe the other half wouldnt bother. Its extra sales for Univeral. Its a way to get people to do something. If there is an event involved (buying dvds on June 23rd), people may be (and are) motivated to buy more DVDs, and to publicize the movie more than normal.

I mean the same could be said for charity screenings. Why go through the whole fuss and bother of it, when one can just collect donations from your lcoal group and have all of that go to the charity. Why try to have it on or near the day of June 23rd? And people give to charities all the time, why is there a push for this? The "notion" for a campign for screenings motivates people to give more money to charity indirectly. And I do believe one of the aspects of these charity screenings is to advertise the movie even more
------------------------------------------

I dont care if you pass judgement on me for being an idiot or foolish or ignorant, like some people on this thread may think of it, but i believe it is something. Sure it wont garner us a sequel.... but it will increase the size of th efandom, motivate browncoats to do something.... and what can it hurt....its dvd sales...increase the size of the fandom, and do a bit of good by donating them to libraries.

I have been talking to these people(kaele) for the past while and they are good people, with a good plan.... so maybe before passin judgement.... before passing sentence.. give them a chance to finish making their plan.

If I sound bitter or a little pissed off, I am sorry, but I see people trying to do something, and then people knock them off before they even get a chance to finish. as an organizer of one of those charity screenings...I plan to participate in the campaign(and not just buying the bloody dvd).

I just sent the organizers an email.... i told them they should either pull the site or email the moderators to have the site not listed here.


ETA 2: Another aspect of the campaign being setup is having a write in campaign to Universal to show our support for the movie... etc... for June 23rd...which Gossi himself has said he thought of doing for September 30th after it was mentioned.

ETA3: removed ETA 1 because was inappropriate of me.

[ edited by kurya on 2006-04-23 06:19 ]

[ edited by kurya on 2006-04-23 06:19 ]
lioness said: I agree that it may well be new fans who feel the need to do something. There are not all that many cities doing the June 23rd charity screening and so all these people are left out in the cold,wanting to do something. I sympathize. (Even if I am organizing one of the charity screenings.)

Well, the number of cities with the charity screenings, of course, is entirely and utterly dependent upon the number of Browncoats organizing screenings. If someone feels "left out" of the screenings, they need to make one happen where they live.

It's not rocket science, it's just time and motivation. Ultimately, if anyone feels "left out" of the screenings, I kind of don't want to hear unless they made an effort to organize one. No one is sitting on high in Central Control doling out charity screenings. There is no Central Control.

It's grassroots, on the ground. DIY, folks.

kurya said: I am going to email the organizer....and I am pretty sure she is going to tell me she doesnt want this site posted on whedonesque. It is not ready!

Um, no offense to anyone, but this is the Web. You put something online, people are going to link to it. They don't need to find out if it's okay first.

If you don't want it linked, don't put it online. That's Web 101, people.
So onetruebix in yours(and other peoples ) zeal to criticize the site owners you probably have not noticed the disclaimer at the bottom "This site is still under construction". I guess too bad for them that people don't bother reading that.
I mean the same could be said for charity screenings. Why go through the whole fuss and bother of it, when one can just collect donations from your lcoal group and have all of that go to the charity. Why try to have it on or near the day of June 23rd? And people give to charities all the time, why is there a push for this?

Because it impacts the real world and lets Browncoats do something for other people while enjoying Serenity rather than wasting their time on campaigns that make them feel like they "belong" but don'y actually influence the powers that be.

The rationale behind the charity screenings was twofold: (1) We basically have no power over determining whether there will be more Serenity, so we should be creative about how we get to enjoy the Serenity we've already gotten. (2) Enjoy what we do have while projecting our enthusiasm outward into the world rather than just inward towards the self-interested wants of the fandom itself.

And, of course, to do it on Joss' birthday, and for his favorite charity.

Let me make this clear: The "Serenity Day" people have no business trying to pull "why put the screenings on June 23?" because that was a settled issue months ago. You can't blame the people who picked the date first for, well, getting there first.

In the final analysis, it simple isn't true that "the same could be said for charity screenings" as is being said for Serenity Day.

The original June 23 plan (the screenings) benefits fans, who get to see it on the big screen again, benefits the real world, with Equality Now getting funds raised, and benefits Joss by being a fan birthday present.

And anyone who actually knew anything about fundraising would know that "one can just collect donations from your lcoal group and have all of that go to the charity" and "people give to charities all the time, why is there a push for this" are laughable statements made only out of annoyance that people are criticizing the Serenity Day "buy the DVD!" effort.

As for the first, these charity screenings are not just so the local Browncoats can get together and the 20 of them have their ticket money go to EN. Many of these screenings will not at all merely be the local Browncoat crews, but will encompass both more general scifi audiences, and audiences who are inclined to support a group like EN and so come out to see a movie.

Perhaps you're unaware of such things, but charities, and groups supporting charities hold fundraisers all the time, because "people give to charities all the time" is not something, in fact, which provides enough support for most charities. That's why fundraisers exist.

Stick to running your little moon, er, planning your little event, rather than trying to dissect the other one, because you're only showing that you don't understand very much.
kurya, I'm well aware that the site is under construction. I'm also well aware (as are, in point of fact, YOU) that I've followed the discussions of Serenity Day from the beginning, and I know what plans are being made, regardless of whether or not they are yet reflected on their official website.

That the site itself is under construction is irrelevant.
Scientologists bought multiple copies of the Battlefield Earth science-fiction novel and they got a movie! ;)
You don't think "stick to running your little moon" is a little harsh, and dismissive, maybe? When I read that I thought I was in an AICN talkback.
While the zeal of the fans to a) get more Firefly and b) help do something to insure that is laudable, this "campaign" does somehow seem misguided and embarassing. I'm very glad to see I'm not the only Browncoat who feels this way.

Here's something else I've been afraid to admit but I also find the new intro for "The Signal" (podcast) to be similarly cringe-inducing. I realize I'm running a huge flaming risk here, but I'm wondering if anyone else is finding this push to sequel zeal a bit overdone?

We Firefly fans got our sequel, Serenity, and maybe that's all we're gonna get. But you know what ? The Firefly boxset is still # 7 on Amazon! (Serenity's #36). If you want a chance for more adventures, IMHO, keep turning people on to the show.
The language has gotten far too intemperate. bix and kurya, take it off-site please. There is a way to criticize without resorting to personal attack and belittling comments. Thank you.
Posted by Kurya ~ ETA: It should be noted one of the ardent supporters of this campaign is 11th Hour. I hope you DON'T think less of her because she supports this.

Just to clarify...

I always support promoting Firefly and Serenity, and I've been on hand to offer suggestions regarding the Serenity Day endeavor. It's very encouraging to see newer fans so passionate to continue our shiny 'verse. We all know Joss still has hundreds of stories still to tell, and we'd love to see them.

However, the plan still needs more organizing... all the "old timers" know that fan generated guerilla marketing is a lot of work... joyous work, but it requires persistence and a long view. Personally, I'd prefer that Serenity Day take place on September 30th, the one year anniversary of the premiere of Serenity. It would give more time to plan, make use of promotion at the various Sci-Fi conventions, and it just seems like a more logical date. September 30th also has the added benefit of separating itself from the Serenity Now/Equality Now screenings. It's kinda nice to have two Serenity themed events spread out over this Summer. The two events of course have different goals, but it's still Serenity out there doing good works in the world.

Folks, let's try to remember not to dump a lot of negativity on Browncoats who deeply love Firefly and Serenity, and are willing to put themselves out there to continue the 'verse. They have wonderful energy and enthusiasm... offer advice and helpful suggestions, not put downs.
Funny thing, when the Whedonverse Multimedia Project asked Browncoats to provide Serenity DVDs for all the libraries it helped prior to the film being released we got very little response. *shrug*

No worries, we'll make sure all the libraries that we donated to in the past recieve copies of Serenity as well.

[ edited by killinj on 2006-04-23 20:28 ]
This is from the organizer of the campaign emailed to some of us... take it for what you will. She doesnt have an account here so she asked if one of us can post it:
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"When I was approached by Kurya, he offered to post what was being done with the DVD drive up on Whedonesque. Personally, I was flattered beyond belief. When Kurya made his offer, I asked that he please hold off, stating that as an organization, the Serenity Day / Browncoat Army group was not ready. As I find Whedonesque to be a font of information from which the Browncoat sites I visit get a good portion of their information, I had not even considered that we would make even a blip on your radar just yet. I had hoped to give to you, the readers, a polished product.

"I apologize if the site seems unfinished. I took on the responsibility of this movement only within the past week and am doing what little I may. I am completely inexperienced in web design and only within the past two or three days have found someone with enough free time to donate their abilities. I ask most sincerely for your patience and for the chance to prove ourselves."

Signed, M.L. "Kaele" McFadden

----------------------------------------------


First I must apologize for my emotional outburst. It was in reaction to a percieved dumping and slashing of work done by some good people who I had the privelege to be in contact with. Especially since in the past 1 or 2 weeks the plan has been evolving and growing(and is still being worked on as we speak) and numerous people have been working hard on getting it set up. While my statements of the unreadyness of this campaign to be judged still stands, and my dismay at how these efforts have been criticzed is still there, I am sorry that my comments have been seen as intemperate. I can't help standing up and defending people who do not deserve this treatment.
ETA: It should be noted one of the ardent supporters of this campaign is 11th Hour. I hope you DON'T think less of her because she supports this.

I couldn't think less of 11th Hour if she ate babies for breakfast and kicked puppies for a living.

Well, maybe a little less.

[ edited by Allyson on 2006-04-23 06:18 ]
kurya, I think most of the criticism here can be taken as constructive. People are giving their candid opinions, but I don't think there's a "zeal" to criticize. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think people are attacking you or the organizers personally, I hope you don't take it that way.

Beyond that, another thing I would say is when someone puts this kind of page out there, they should be prepared for it to be judged as-is. You can't expect that a general audience will know the full behind-the-scenes details or go find out about it. This kind of site should be as self-contained and self-sufficient as possible. In my experience, the one best tool for that is a FAQ that answers all the caveats/criticisms/ifs/ands/buts that have presumably come up in planning. (IMHO, "under construction" isn't meaningful anymore.)

I actually like the general idea of a Serenity Day, but I wouldn't buy another Serenity DVD. It seems like a lot of Browncoats would feel that's not worth it to them. I hope the organizers keep that in mind. It would be a shame to send Universal a letter saying "hear us roar" and then be inaudible.
Actually, I'd say this is among the worst I've seen this site behave--which is something, because this is a haven of politeness in an otherwise stupidly combatitive Internet.

The site's not thought out and not ready for prime time? Fine.

The fan campaign idea may lack cohesion and also be completely ineffective? Also fine.

Firefly/Serenity fandom isn't going to be damaged by a failed or ill-conducted campaign. It's like CPR--the franchise is "dead" at this point, so it's not very possible to kill it worse than it already is. Well, not directly, at any rate.

What I do see as a more threating situation is the willingness to criticize others in public. We don't need fratricide and internicene fan conflicts, even if the old hands act like know it alls (they might just) or the newbies seem to have more enthusiasm than sense (the might not).

Relax, be pleased that people still care, and offer advice and criticism in private to those with whom you already have a relationship.
jclemens, I disagree that the franchise is "dead". I'm sure Universal is already paying attention to DVD sales. I don't think they're in a hurry to make a sequel, but I think ($) they're open ($) to the possibility ($).

As far as public criticism, I personally feel it's a useful way to gauge the feasability of this kind of group effort (even having been on the receiving end). To ignore it would be a mistake.

ETA: to clarify, I'm not saying anyone should just bow to what others say. I just mean criticism should be taken under consideration as part of the process.

[ edited by jam2 on 2006-04-23 07:08 ]
I don't think there is anyone that wouldn't be thrilled to continue the 'verse in some fashion, but I'm of the opinion that the era of campaigning and marketing has long since past. Not that there's anything wrong with converting a few straggling 'coats to the fold now and then, of course...
Personally I've been thinking of buying another set of Firefly and Serenity DVDs to loan out to friends and family, so I am now planning to wait and buy them on June 23rd. And I know that in the Bay area there are several people investigating the possibilities of a charity event/screening of Serenity to raise money for Equality Now and this is being planned for June 23rd. I don't see any down side to have a variety of events happening across the country, and hopefully a small spike in the DVD sales as well.
Keeping the fanbase active and growing has a very good chance of encouraging the continuance of the 'verse.

When there's still an eager audience, and money to be made, a studio could be very open to pursuing more incarnations of Firefly/Serenity. By keeping the DVDs selling strong, and fans continuing to show their support, the incentive is there to deliver more Firefly/Serenity.

Even 20th Century Fox is finally acknowledging that Firefly still has an audience out there willing to spend money. The studio is beginning to license official merchandise... for a TV show cancelled over 3 years ago! The fans aren't going away, and they want more.
Well said, 11thHour. There's a certain smugness about "gee, haven't you moved on yet?" which is not very constructive. Being passionate about the 'verse is hardly cause for dismissal, and we're really all just fans. Plus Joss. :)

Just as these enthusiastic folks may be overestimating how much they can gain by this campaign, I think it's pretty easy to overestimate the negative effect they can have on the perception of the fans--or how important that perception is--by anyone outside the community. The bottom line is the bottom line is the bottom line.

Edit: my "well said" was for 11thHour's first post, but I also agree with the last one. The non-sports card release for Firefly is one example of how Firefly interest continues to a surprising degree.

[ edited by RBB on 2006-04-23 07:51 ]
Yes...I admit... I let my newbie zeal get away with myself, and my emotional reaction should not be representative or reflect the organizers themselves. I would hate(and it may be already too late), for the organizers to be tarnished by my enthusiasm aka emotional reaction. (I have calmed down a bit...) They are good people, and as the email sent by one of the organizers which I posted demonstrated, quite even minded folk(unlike myself...).

I can understand constructive criticism...I guess I just felt like it was an overload of attacks. Nobody was playing devils advocate(even though one wasnt needed). Especially from my biggest fear(and so far proven true), that this campaign would get the same treatment as the other two"foolish" endeavours. I can understand in the other cases, that it seemed unreasonable... buying the rights for a show, or trying to pay for episodes made... but this is different. In my mind its not useless to get people buy more serenity dvds on one day.

This is encouraging fans to use the money where their mouth is, and to market this movie again, and to buy the dvds again. And in that regard increase the fandom(much the same way for the theatrical release day mobilized the fandom).

I can not speak for others, but I myself would say that had there not been a movie, just a fandom, I would not have gotten involved. I would not have the "zeal" to go show firefly to others, to get others interested(and therefore no ticket sales). I have at least attempted to show the series to at least 15-20 people. And I am not counting the way a few of those people tried to show others. I boguht 2 firefly dvd sets, one for loan and one for myself(they ended up being both loaners). I bought 2 serenity dvds one for a present. I would never have done that, if it were not for"the cause to get more movies...". I just wouldn't.

Which is why I feel, the fandom needs to be increased, since it still isnt big enough to support a franchise. Having a serenity day to buy dvds is only ONE aspect(at least from what I know....). And although it is a bit of an artifical method(not the slow.. word of mouth), I dont think it is any less valid. I personally feel to help increase the size of the fandom at a faster rate(and I do believe the fandom would increase as the result of this campaign, which will include more than jsut buying dvds), we need an occasian, or someway to motivate people. Its more than just the"blip" or spike on Universal's Radar, its the after effects.

And in terms of the website, sorry deleurium_haze, I know your intentions were good or neutral....I hope you didnt think I was attacking you, b/c I wasn't. Maybe it is just me, but when i see"this site is under construction", and there is almost very little information, as one poster said, I would take it that they are NOT done. Myself before passing judgement(when im not too emotional), I would want to wait and see all of the facts(the whole story to come out). Maybe its just my desire to know everything, because I know myself, I just can not judge what are the intentions and the whole plan just based on a few words, especially when its indidcated the plan is not finished.

Anyway this is the last I will speak of it, since I should get some sleep. Once again sorry for my "zeal"... I will keep it in check next time.

[ edited by kurya on 2006-04-23 08:17 ]
Allyson, she barbeques kittens, last I heard. Hi, Susan. Didn't see you there.
kurya, you have to keep in mind that some of us having been fighting this fight since 2002 and are a bit burnt out. Carry on, but don't expect that there won't be criticism from the cynical. And by cynical and burnt out, I mean me.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2006-04-23 08:17 ]
If people want to buy more DVDs to help the sales, I doubt anyone would mind. However if you have to shout out to the world that it's you doing it, and that it's all just another 'fan-thing' you might actually be negating any effect it might have. If you don't shout it to the world, and DVD sales go up, then the Studios might think it's just selling well in general. I doubt even that would make that much of a difference but it would have a bigger chance than this effort.

As others have said already, the studios have seen what the FF/Serenity fans amount to, and it wasn't enough. It was enough, together with the DVD sales to probably not make it a disaster, but not to actually go on with it. Just proving we can buy DVDs as well as tickets doesn't tell them a single new thing.

Studio's don't care about fan clubs. Unless those clubs' numbers measure up to mainstream success. Things like this simply hammer home the point to studios and other people that outside of a small group of overzealous fans, no one cares about this.

What I do see as a more threating situation is the willingness to criticize others in public. We don't need fratricide and internicene fan conflicts

Sorry, but this is an opinion board. The only rules that need following are those of the moderators. If we do that, I think we can all state our opinion on a topic. And I really wish people would stop referring to 'The Fandom' in that elitist group sense. That's exactly the kind of thing that has put many people off. We're not a cult or political party. Just because we like the same TV shows or movies doesn't mean I owe anyone any 'allegiance'. I don't think anyone should stop having the right to disagree with someone and stating that because of vague notions like 'it might hurt the fandom'. Who is 'the fandom' anyway?

If anything, this 'fandom' has hurt itself. I hate that this is the case, but Browncoats are, thanks to the horrid behavior of some more fanatical specimens on other boards, some of the most hated fandoms out there right now. And among SW fans, 'Trekkies', 'Ringers' and others, that's saying something. And I've seen some live examples of rude and elitist behavior myself. It's the uglier side of the fandom, and while I hope still not truly representative, it does make me think that while continued enthusiasm is fine, we could do with taking ourselves a little less seriously sometimes. Or think about how things may look to other people who aren't in this group.

Anyway, back to the topic; I think this campaign may be well-intended, but is ill-thought out, wont' have any good effect, and might even have a negative effect. That's simply my opinion.
Hey Tamara... I know I can always count on you... you're our own "Tamara of Sunnybrook Farm"... heh...

(Btw, I DO NOT barbeque kittens! I keep telling you, those were ferrets!)

And Allyson, I DO NOT kick puppies... at least not for money!!!

However, I do confess to being devoted to doing what I can to continuing the 'verse that found a place in my heart, and never left...

Have no place I can be... oh hell, you know the rest...
I wonder if it would be cost-efficient to do a sequel using just sound? Like a radio show. And then sell it on CD. It would cost a hell of a lot less than a movie. Wouldn't it be great to at least hear their voices again? And they'd love doing it 'cause it would give them a chance to hang out. And get paid.

And do a DVD of the recording sessions and release that about 3 months later.

Of course the CD would be all over the net, but we'd buy it anyway.

Just a thought...

And it's good to see 11th Hour has maintained her amateur status as a puppy-kicker. It's probably a shrewd move as it will undoubtedly become an Olympic event. Once she's metalled then she's on boxes of Wheaties, endorsing puppy-kicking footwear and gear, playing Peter Pan...sky's the limit.

And my understanding is that they can't take the sky from you.
Isn't Joss booked to like 2009 at this point with other projects?

Come back to TV Joss, it really was your forte. The quality you consistantly created in a week for 45 minutes of airtime was way better than this "work for months on an over-packed two hours" routine. Get WW done right and then maybe try "Ripper"... HDTV will make it more film-like and maybe you could even work with the BBC instead of depressing companies like FOX.

You can't have story/character arcs in movies like you can on TV.
That's what we miss (well at least I do).
Between the cancellation of Firefly and the debut of Serenity, I worked very hard evangelizing the show (at first) and then the film as its release date approached. I gave easily a dozen sets of Firefly away as gifts over the course of two years.. constantly loaned my personal set out to others... wrote letters and sent cards to studios (before the film was announced)... etc. I even took one to two friends with me to see Serenity each time I saw it in the theater (three times total). When Serenity underperformed at the box office, I decided not to similarly gift the DVD of it when it eventually came out.

The word-of-mouth thing apparently has no acceleration pedal... it will happen at its own pace no matter what Browncoats do. There won't be a Serenity sequel in the next three to five years (mostly because Joss is very busy) but I believe there will be one someday whether I give away sets of Firefly or not. As a premise it's too cool to die and the 17 hours of Firefly/Serenity that already exist are going to keep finding new eyeballs to dazzle.

I won't begrudge any grassroots effort to get the word out about the 'Verse. This Browncoat just won't be participating at this point in time.
My mind keeps returning to something Joss said to Tim Minear in relation to reviving, resurrecting Firefly: "When does it stop being CPR and become necrophilia?"

The truth, as EdDantes says above, is that the fanbase isn't enough to support a feature film franchise. It wasn't big enough to keep Firefly on the air. It wasn't big enough to make the film a hit - or even moderately successful. It hasn't helped in creating blockbuster sales of the film on DVD.

Encouraging people to buy Serenity on DVD six months after its inital release smacks of desperation. How many fans will buy multiple copies of the one film - beyond those who may have gotten multiple copies for packaging variations? How many people will be able to convince friends to buy a film they haven't seen? Where's the suggestion there's a huge untapped market of Serenity fans who haven't already got the DVD?

The "Serenity Day" site also conflates their effort with the Serenity Now/Equality Now fundraising efforts, which is disigenuous. The Equality Now fundraising is using Serenity screenings to support a charity, not to get a sequel made.

In my mind, these charity screenings are more likely to keep the film alive - it's easier to convince someone who hasn't seen Serenity to go to a charity screening than it is to buy a DVD.

The longer I watched people analysing box office performance or DVD sales, the more depressed I got: the information was clear - Serenity was not a hit. And yet the most disturbing thing was how blindly optimistic some fans were - trying to turn their disappointment into something positive, by making the numbers read better. Which can't realistically be done.

Serenity is a hell of a film. That it made it from TV to film is a minor miracle. I think any major efforts to revive the franchise beyond word of mouth is beating a dead horse opera - or, as Joss said, becoming necrophilia.
Here, here, EdDantes. Oh, and Keith! Stop posting so fast.
The only thing that will hasten a sequel to Serenity is Nathan, Summer, etal becoming big damn moviestars and Wonder Woman and Goners having huge box office. Only then will a continuation of the 'verse be a possibility. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that anything except money speaks. Fandom and enthusiasm is great, but it will not bring us more stories except in fanfic.
Hi! I have a question. Why does it have "(writer)" next to my name up there^^?
I think pretty much everything has been said about this campaign but I will give my own little opinion. I would love a Serenity sequel but have already bought three copies of Serenity on DVD and can't afford to buy a fourth., I fear telling Universal to watch out for a huge sale of DVDs in one day is risky when the campaign has little support so the result will be so underwhelming as to appear as if Serenity has few true fans.
BuffyIsLife: because you are logged in - and under your name. I'm guessing that if you were a mod it would say something else and have 'edit' by every post - though on the other hand maybe not - perhaps the light does stay on when the fridge door is closed :-)
"Yep... That went well."

1) There is still a lot of pent up frustration regarding Serenity's box office failure. Some of it spilled on to this thread. I apologise if anyone thought my remarks went too far. I get very protective of the fandoms. Apart from the Alien 4 one.

2) If you are going to buy a DVD on the 23rd, think about donating it to the "Whedonverse library project". Public libraries are great and its a good way to get new people into the fandom.

3) Fandoms never speak with one voice. Apart from the "Simon at Whedonesque" fan listing which I think has one person on it.

4) Newcomers who want to do something, speak to fans who've been around for a bit. They may have some useful tips and advice. Also, older fans should speak to the newcomers who may have fresh ideas. This all may prevent flare-ups over fan campaigns.

5) "Why does it have "(writer)" next to my name up there^^?"

It's means you can now edit your own comments and post links.

6) Jokes about posters eating babies and barbecuing kittens? Uncalled for. I don't want to see that again.

7) Linking to FireflyDay.com , it's out there on the Internet. But I would want to see the final version. Might I suggest having a forum on that site?

8) Serenity sequel? In the hands of the Gods, but even with the best will in the world I can't see it happening for another few years.
I think that any effort to sell Serenity dvds cannot be a bad thing. Perhaps people's concerns about it being damaging if the spike in numbers is very small could be addressed by rewording the letter to Universal. The charity part and our support for the 'verse bit could be emphasised more, rather than building up Universal's expectation of large numbers with the bits about investment and showing our numbers. That way if this isn't as huge as expected then it can still be seen as a positive charity thing.

Well done to the people involved for all the effort they're putting in to saving Firefly.
Perhaps the Serenity Day DVD purchasing endeavor should be presented more as a sincere "thank you" to Universal, rather than a direct push for sequels. In addition, buying the DVDs directly from the Universal Home Entertainment website on September 30th would also serve as real connection to celebrating the anniversary of Serenity's premiere.

I would assume that Universal realizes a better profit when the DVDs are purchased directly from them. An extra, extra good sales day for Serenity DVDs is a very nice way for the fans to say "thank you" to Universal for having faith in Joss and Serenity.

Also, the good thing about having a special Serenity DVD purchase day is that it reinvigorates guerilla marketing... it gives a kick in the pants with a goal date to focus on.

To clarify, the campaign involves more than just getting existing fans to buy DVDs. The aim is to reach out to new people so they can discover the 'verse. As it has been pointed out on this thread, future incarnations of Firefly/Serenity will require a larger audience... and building that larger audience is a big part of the goal of Serenity Day.

It is possible to be both realistic, and optimistic... but gawd, it takes work...
If there is one thing that could be done to make people sit up and take notice of the BDM it's buying the HD-DVD version. This is a new format and there are only a few titles out yet, having Serenity be the biggest seller HD-DVD would get attention and, having downloaded the HD trailer from Apple, it does look fantastic!
At first the idea excited me, being a relatively new Firefly fan myself. However, the plan is ultimately a little unrealistic, after considering the arguements posted here.

I've been following Whedonesque for a very long time, but as a new "member", I'm slightly shocked at the outrage expressed in this post. If fans want to try and reach even more possible Browncoats, let them be! And it's disheartening to read the negative outlooks of some fans regarding sales... new Browncoats are popping up every day. I for one am not going to give up hope any time soon.
One thing that's more likely to work is if they aired Serenity on TV, on a highly popular network, so that lots of people would see it. Then, suddenly, there would probably be an increase of people who enjoyed the movie, and in effect, an increase of people who want a sequel. I don't think it would actually help, but I think it's more likely to help than this mass fan purchasing thing is.
Vince, I believe the USA network bought the rights to air Serenity sometime in 2008(?).
If fans want to try and reach even more possible Browncoats, let them be!


I don't think it's a case of not wanting people to try and reach more browncoats or even a case of people saying 'give up already, it's over'. I just think, in this particular instance, it's a case of people feeling that this type of campaign is just not something that's going to work.

Now I'd in no way want to discourage anyone from trying to set up a campaign effort to garner interest in Firefly and/or Serenity. I still think that fans can help in making this movie into a minor cult hit on DVD (the charity screenings being a good example of this) and thus opening the road to a possible continuation in some shape or form. I just don't think the 'Serenity Day' as it stands now (I can't really say anything about possible plans or scenarios, although 11thHour makes a few intersting suggestions) will do the trick, for reasons stated in this topic already.

ETA:

And it's disheartening to read the negative outlooks of some fans regarding sales... new Browncoats are popping up every day.


While I agree with the observation that the number of people having seen Firefly and/or Serenity and having enjoyed the experience is slowly increasing, I simply don't think we've grown enough, as a fan-community, to make another movie an instant box-office hit, and Universal probably knows this too. We never knew the exact amount of Browncoats worldwide, but the theatrical release shows that there's simply not enough of us out there.

So what needs to happen is to slowly, over time, increase interest in the property (by following a minor version of the Darko-esque trail of events that lead to it becomming a big cult hit).

What we don't need to do is show Universal that we're still here. They know we're still here, they have net acces too. And they know that we're not a large enough group to market a sequel to.

[ edited by GVH on 2006-04-23 16:56 ]
Another suggestion on if you buy another DVD is to get it for work and I don't mean watching it there. I mean take it into work and leave it on your desk if you can, more than likely someone will stop by and ask what is that. Everyone one is curious about what others are watching anyway, I know this from my earlier years working at a video store. Casually tell them it's a good sci-fi western flick, do not oversell it, ask if they want to see it and if they say yeah, Loan It Out to them and bomb you might have just created another browncoat. So if you do buy it maybe come up with new a unique approach. However, if I were these people I would concentrate on buying it from Amazon on June 23rd and send it's ranking back up the chartss, this may also help get some new browncoats as well.
Simon, I agree that it will be years before we get a Serenity sequel. After all, Joss is going to be busy with Wonder Woman this year and Goners next year, so even if it was green lit we would have to wait. I compare our situation to the early days in the Star Trek fandom, and they waited many years for their movie, and many more for a sequel to the Star Trek movie. The important thing is to not disappear or seem disinterested, of course some people are burnt out but there are new fans joining fffans and other sites every day of the week. I think the enthusiasm of these newer fans is exciting and I wouldn't want to discourage them.
Here in the Bay area (and I know of many other areas as well) we enjoy regular get togethers. The marathon of Firefly and Serenity in Santa Cruz was seen as a success and we hope to have many other big events (like the Browncoat Ball this Fall). Personally I see the activities of Serenity Day to be just another fun way to express our continuing love for this show.
I wonder if it would be cost-efficient to do a sequel using just sound? Like a radio show. And then sell it on CD. It would cost a hell of a lot less than a movie. Wouldn't it be great to at least hear their voices again? And they'd love doing it 'cause it would give them a chance to hang out. And get paid.

And do a DVD of the recording sessions and release that about 3 months later.

Of course the CD would be all over the net, but we'd buy it anyway.

Just a thought...


When the Doctor Who franchise went off the air, part of the way the franchise was kept alive with it's fanbase was that Doctor Who audio plays were released on CD. They could go back and do stories with the older actors who had played the Doctor and his various companions and villians. Most of the actors were too old to replay those characters for video but it works great on just audio. Since Doctor Who has returned to tv, a lot of the better writers from the audio plays have been used to write tv episodes and even some of the more better audio episodes have been adapted into tv episodes (like the episode Dalek, which was an adaption of the audio play Jubilee).

That said, at this point I don't see Firefly or Serenity audio plays as something that Joss is likely to do. However, maybe 5 or more years down the line if there really is no chance in hell of another Serenity movie or Firefly tv show happening, it would be something cool to see, even if I think it's unlikely to happen.
I mean take it into work and leave it on your desk if you can, more than likely someone will stop by and ask what is that.

I tried putting up a Serenity poster as my background on my computer at work, and when someone saw it they were interested...until they saw the line about Joss being the creator of Buffy. Then they just mocked me and said that was the only reason I liked this movie. Obviously I tried to defend it, and even sent the opening few minutes link around, but I don't think I turned one person...

Not to say it can't work, but maybe just use a dvd that doesn't reference Buffy! :~P
Does anyone know when the "Buy a Buffy DVD Day" is planned?

Personally, I think the idea of organized purchasing to try to motivate a Hollywood studio is just a waste of lots of positive energy. There are many other "stunts" that could have a much bigger impact....just off the top of my head:

"Picket" stores that sell DVDs with a sandwich board and a megaphone (maybe skip the megaphone).

Seriously, if Browncoats in 50 states stood outside Wallmart with big signs that say BUY SERENITY, it would make the news on every news outlet on the planet (even if they put it in the "human interest" section normally reserved for Star Wars premiere lines.) I can't afford to keep opening my wallet...but I can't seem to shut my mouth so this plan would be perfect for me!
Keeping the fanbase active and growing has a very good chance of encouraging the continuance of the 'verse.


I don't think that any fan can argue that keeping the fanbase active is a bad thing. It was one of our goals with the Browncoat Coat Drive held months after the series was cancelled. I suspect for a while we'll be expected to be satisfied with comics and novels. I don't think it would be settling not to expect more at this time.

I think the Firefly/Serenity fan is going to have to be intuitive as to what comes next after that. I'm not sure if a sequel in theaters is even the way to go. Maybe direct to DVD. More exciting to me is the news that ABC is going to be offering 4 shows online in May. That really could open Pandora's Box. It's not too hard to envision online networks offering programming to compete with television. Let's face it Firefly is not mainstream. Keeping the fanbase active and supporting emerging entertainment technologies may lead to a perfect marriage between the two. I know, I know sounds like a "Crazy Ivan" but hey, that worked!
alexreager - I eagerly await the news story about you standing outside a Walmart with a Buy Serenity sign. :)
alexreager, I have this vision of you standing there with your "Buy Serenity" posterboard, with well meaning people continually coming up to you to explain that serenity cannot be bought, though it can be achieved through ________[fill in religion, hobby, exercise program, sport or cult] in an amazingly short time.

I do not have much of an opinion about this actual campaign. I agree that combining it with the library campaign seems like a good idea. "For Joss's birthday, buy a copy of Serenity for your local library...if they take donations...or simply give money to the Whedonverse library project." That sort of thing.

What I do agree with is that this is a place to express opinions in a respectful way, and if you think something is a bad idea, it is not wrong to say so unless you say it in a way that is against the rules of the site. This has come up before with people objecting to a negative opinion being the first one in a thread or too many negative opinions being expressed on one thread. It seems to me that some of that is going to be luck of the draw. If I come to the site and something has just been posted, I may be moved to post my reaction, whatever it may be. I do not think I should have to wait to see what others are going to say. I personally have a tendency to be careful about posting negative opinions because I know that I can rant, so I save negative posts for things that really bother or offend me rather than spreading my negative opinions around thinly...but that is just me, and I retain the right to decide that for myself just as I leave that choice to others to make. Negative can be constructive.
I stayed away from this discussion (because it was getting scary!), but I do want to weigh in a bit, FWIW. I agree with bix and newcj that putting 'Verse efforts together with charitable efforts seems a really good way to put enthusiasm, whether it's from newbies or "oldbies" or "middlebies," together with a good cause. I think the fundraisers for Equality Now and the DVD donations to the Whedonverse Library Project are great ideas, for that reason -- our positive energy + helping others = good for everyone involved. (BTW, I have seen calls to donate any DVDs to U.S. troops serving overseas -- is the Whedonverse Library Project also involved in that? Although, I don't know if TPTB would appreciate our troops seeing the conflict of the Alliance versus Independents! ;-))

I do agree with many posters that it doesn't seem reasonable to declare that any particular effort "will" make any particular studio want to make a sequel. I think it is a better idea to call these efforts "fun" or "a celebration of...(fill in the blank with "Joss' birthday" or "the 1st anniversary of Serenity's release")" or, best yet, tie them to charity fundraising than to say this will spark a sequel, because I agree that if we didn't bring enough people to the theatres initially, or didn't buy enough DVDs in the first few weeks of release, then a one-day sales spike, while it is certainly not bad in any way, may not be likely to change the studios' minds. My opinion is, definitely, if people want to buy DVDs on Joss' birthday, do it, but do it for fun or to celebrate JW's natal day, not to "save the franchise." And if you use your new DVD to lend to friends who might be interested, or to donate to a library or to troops overseas, that also sounds great to me! But I think we are just saying, do it for that purpose (donation, sharing with friends, celebrating Jah Sweden's birthday), because it might be expecting too much if you pin your hopes on "this will get us a sequel." Buying the extra DVD should feel good because you accomplished a short-term goal (donation, sharing, birthday), not disappointing because it didn't accomplish the long-term goal you had in mind (sequel), IMO.

In any case, I also think that it's reasonable for people to give a negative opinion of ideas stated here, as long as they are civil about it, and keep it in terms of "this is my opinion," rather than "this will never work, you're wasting your time." I also think it's reasonable for people to give arguments back of why they think their idea is good, as long as they also keep it civil and in terms of "this is my opinion" rather than "you're cynical and you are mean." (Not that anyone made any of these comments! I'm just giving hypothetical examples!!) That's why The Black rocks so hard -- we usually discuss even very touchy subjects in a very "while I see your point, here's my opinion" sort of way (remember the long discussion on the death of Tara/who "owns" characters and stories? that was really, really civil!).

Well, like newcj already said better than me, "Negative can be constructive," so long as it is also respectful. IMO. :-)
I say 'why not?' I've been meaning to buy a couple extra copies of the BDM to give to friends so I might as well buy em on that day. So, I say if you wanna...then do it...if not...then whatever. It might not do anything but it won't hurt.
Dolphin Tamer, That's what I always say when these fan ideas pop up. Really, who are they hurting? Nobody. As long as they don't get all freaky and militant, what's the harm?

Sales equals good in my book. The fact that a little spike (heh) may happen on Joss's birthday? Cool. If not, I don't think anyone has delusions of changing the world, but it makes a positive, quick, appreciative statement.
Really, who are they hurting? Nobody. As long as they don't get all freaky and militant, what's the harm?


Well, I still agree that it's a great sentiment and if people want to buy a DVD on the 23rd, I'd say: go for it. But I don't think it's true that it won't hurt. It wouldn't hurt if this wouldn't be publicised at all. But if the organisers send an open letter to Universal (as they're going to do/have done, according to the site) and the plan bombs because of lacking fan interest (which is certainly possible, given that there's a fair amount of people not onboard with the idea), that might hurt.

I'd say Universal has a pretty accurate sense of the size of our fandom and the continued interest in the property right now and I don't see 'Serenity Day' changing that in a positive way. Now extra sales won't hurt anyone (in fact I'd say it's a good thing ;-)), but failure might result in a negative image adjustment (although I don't think that's very likely: my money's on this being a non-event as far as Universal's concerned).

Now, just to be clear, I'm not saying the fans who're organising this are 'hurting the fandom' or any such thing (in fact, I think discussion on 'what to do next' is no bad thing) and I have a lot of respect for the people investing their time in this, getting critized for their efforts and yet staying optimistic. The way they are tunneling their enthusiam into something productive is a very good sign for the health of this fandom. I'm just stating that I see no potential gain in this particular idea, but I do see potential loss.

Now, having said that, I like the idea of people buying DVDs to donate them to others (libraries and such). That's positive advertising for the fanbase, it might even get some media attention and you're doing something for someone else. But even without that, the idea in itself is fine, if people enjoy buying these DVDs and showing love for the 'Verse on this special occassion, it doesn't always need to be about charity and whatnot - I just think it's a mistake to mention it to Universal and basically say "just you wait and see, we'll show you we're still here" and then have it bomb. Of course taking an occassional risk is fine, but I don't feel there's much potential for a positive result here, so it's not worth it to risk a possible negative outcome. All imho, of course.
In my view there is a way in which such campaigns can hurt. That's if everyone who really is thinking of buying the DVD now or in the next few days or weeks decides to postpone their purchase for 2 months. Sure there'd then be a spike on 23 June (if people haven't forgotten or changed their mind by then) but in the meantime the level of sales will have fallen off.

My opinion FWIW - if you are thinking of buying, buy now, or as soon as you can afford it, and then do sopmething else (or buy again ) to celebrate Joss' birthday or the anniversary in September.

billz post reflects my feelings about the site that's been linked to. It's 'the result' part that jarred with me.
Ya'll have said that our numbers aren't that big anyway, so what's the dif? Buy it now, or for Joss's birthday... it isn't going to make THAT much difference in the totals, and it'd be a cool nod to the fandom (yeah, I said 'fandom', wanna make something of it?), and a tiny reminder to whomever that yes, we are still out there, lest they've forgotten.

I hadn't heard of this idea before I read this thread, but I reiterate my previous statement - what's the harm? You cautious types kill me. On the one hand, you say it makes no impact... on the other? Yee-gods, don't do it! It'll kill sales for the previous week!

Piffle. Buy the movie when you want, for whatever reason. Just buy it, and share! :D
An extra, extra good sales day for Serenity DVDs is a very nice way for the fans to say "thank you" to Universal for having faith in Joss and Serenity.


Heya, long-time lurker, first time poster. I have to agree with 11th Hour. It makes much more sense to approach any sort of purchasing campaign as a thank-you, than as defiance. The current tone of that campaign seems to suggest that Universal "owes us". Well, why? They made Serenity, and we thanked them by not going in big enough numbers. To add insult to their financial injury, we harrass them about a sequal. It's sort of like having your parents buy you a car, never driving it, and then complaining that you don't have a newer car.

I'm happy that there is a vibrant fandom, and I'm especially happy to take part. But I will choose to put my efforts behind more positively based fan efforts, such as Serenity Now/Equality Now, instead of purchasing campaigns with a spiteful emotional base.

And thanks to everyone who makes being a Browncoat fun (you know who you are, don't be coy)!

See you in the world!
(BTW, I have seen calls to donate any DVDs to U.S. troops serving overseas -- is the Whedonverse Library Project also involved in that? Although, I don't know if TPTB would appreciate our troops seeing the conflict of the Alliance versus Independents! ;-))

The Whedonverse Multimedia Project did send some DVDs to the troops awhile back and if anyone is inclined to send more DVDs I recommend you visit AnySoldier.com to find a unit that is requesting DVDs. The site has all the details on sending such items. Please include letters. Soldiers love getting mail from home even if all you can think of to write about is what your cat did that day. It really cheers them up.
WillowyYa'll have said that our numbers aren't that big anyway, so what's the dif? Buy it now, or for Joss's birthday... it isn't going to make THAT much difference in the totals, and it'd be a cool nod to the fandom


billz: I do agree with many posters that it doesn't seem reasonable to declare that any particular effort "will" make any particular studio want to make a sequel. I think it is a better idea to call these efforts "fun" or "a celebration of.. or, best yet, tie them to charity fundraising than to say this will spark a sequel, because I agree that if we didn't bring enough people to the theatres initially, or didn't buy enough DVDs in the first few weeks of release, then a one-day sales spike, while it is certainly not bad in any way, may not be likely to change the studios' minds.

I completely concur with that. Do it as another nod to Joss, tie it to charity, make it fun, make it personal, make it a 'thank you'. All great. Just please leave out the 'now you'll give us a sequel, right?' bit. If it does make a difference, it will do so without saying that, without writing studios etc. If it doesn't, it's all the better that you leave that part out.

Willowy(yeah, I said 'fandom', wanna make something of it?)

Uh, I don't know if that's a stab at me but I never said people should stop using the word fandom. I said I disliked it when people start objecting to other people's opinions because they see it as some sort of a 'betrayal of the group' or something. That's when 'fandom' takes on a bit of a creepy meaning and I hate to see that happen. I've obviously been a part of Joss fandom for quite a while, but that doesn't mean I ever signed up to obey some type of party rules, or that I should shut up when my opinion might not be popular enough.

Obviously that's not what most mean when they talk about fandom but I was starting to get that vibe here and there and I'm just naturally wary of the 'you should toe the line or you're a traitor' type of stuff. Makes me rebellious;-)

[ edited by EdDantes on 2006-04-24 05:14 ]
Ed! Stab at YOU?

Fuggedaboudit!! You should know better, dahling. And I'd better never see that question from you again!

I sensed a "Fandom, what? Who started that word and what does it mean" vibe in this thread - too many to keep up with - so don't know really where it originated, but...

You best not be tryin to pick a fight with me, or I'll get your wife and our whips and then you'll be a sorry soul! :D

By the way, I get your point.
Thanks for the info about the soldiers' website, killinj. I think that's another good use for extra DVDs and, as you suggest, letters, too! :-)
I sat down and wrote a letter to Universal thanking them for making Serenity, so seeing the campaign as a thanks for making it seems like a good idea and a nice comprimise.

[I'm not certain that they would have opened the letter though as it was in an envelope and only afterwards did I read something about maybe sending postcards. I thought as the return address was Canada (and we're pretty nice and friendly up here) they might take a chance!]

[ edited by MrsSmith on 2006-04-24 06:14 ]
I'll get your wife and our whips and then you'll be a sorry soul! :D


Weeellll, maybe we better give his tooshie a rest today, that's all I'm sayin' ;~D
Wow, this topic really took off.

Pretty obviously, I have nothing against 11th Hour. In fact, she draws very pretty pictures. Nothing against any of the organisers, either, or think down on them. Nor do I have anything against fan campaigns (and if I did, I'd clearly hate myself).

With these things, I think it's best to not take them personally -- hell, if you are trying to convince a multibillion dollar company to make something, it's entirely an impersonal experience. I'm critical of this effort, in part, because I'm not sure it'll actually accomplish much, and also the date is risking burying the Equality Now screenings planned for that date. I've spent some time over the last few days organising upcoming press for the Equality Now screenings of Serenity, to make sure people still know about them. I don't mind doing that (hell, I did it optionally) -- but if people just buy a few DVDs instead of getting involved in a 'charity' thing it will be a little disheartening.

People will be critical of any effort. I know this one well - I got the hate mail, yo. (I love saying yo, which is actually a justified reason for hate mail. Yo.) That said, people have been a little bit more critical than usual about this because the campaign has been so pronounced online, so public, writing to Universal on behalf of the fan base etc so soon.

This isn't my campaign, but these are my suggestions;

- Don't refer to executives as "Fat Cats", as people are doing for the campaign. These people are the ones who get THE final say in movies.

- Move it back to September 30th, or don't have a defined date.

- If you want publicity, make it *not* entirely about getting another film. Actually causing another film to happen through DVD sales isn't going to happen because the fan base is too small. I think we all know that. However, if you do something which attracts mainstream interest, you cause mainstream sales, which is exactly what causes movies. Say the word "Trekkie" to almost anybody? They know what it is. Say the word "Browncoat" to almost anybody? Chances are they have absolutely no clue what you are on about - and that, ladies and gents, is the reason things are how they are at the moment.
Just thought I'd add my two cents. I think its great that people are still trying to do things. I understand that a lot of the older browncoats are burnt out and tired of all the campaigning. But a huge amount of new Firefly fans came pouring in after the BDM release...why not use that?

Even if you don't think this campaign will work, who cares? You're still showing support to the 'verse. I'm of the belief that every little bit helps. Maybe I'm an optimist, but I still think there is hope for a sequel.

And for those out there who don't feel the need to participate because they don't think it'll work, thats fine too, but why don't you put out your own ideas, or suggestions. What's a better campaign in your opinion? If some of the older and more experienced browncoats would put out an idea and help it grow, I think we really could accomplish something big, especially with all the newer fans out there now.

I just don't see how saying oh it won't work and it's bad for the fandom helps anything at all. To me it just sounds like people have given up. Like I said, I don't think this is the best campaign ever in terms of getting us a sequel, but people are trying to do something and they are working hard and have a lot of ideas coming together. I totally respect that and I will definitely do my part.

ETA: Gossi - I agree about the date change

[ edited by kballgetlost on 2006-04-24 16:21 ]
Just wanted to update my post above to say I've just noticed they've moved to the domain serenityday.org -- which makes much more sense. The website also looks pretty, which is always a plus.
Well, this is buried, and my post will never see the light of day--serves me right for not having the internets at home and missing all the action.

But anyway.

(I'm sure most of this will be a repeat of what others have said, except longer, more boring, and the points will be hazy. That's why I let the smart people have their turns first.)

There are many newbies coming on board the Browncoat fandom and they don't know the history of what's gone on. I know for fact that most of the people involved in this are new to the fandom. They are new, and their passion and enthusiasm is new. I understand many people are critical, and everyone has a right to voice that criticism. But most of the criticism has been along the lines of "it'll never work," or "that's not how I'd do it," or "move on, already," (these are not direct quotes, obviously, but the gist of what I am getting from many of the posts). There has been some big-time negativity towards this idea, and I am scratching my head as to why. Okay, at best, people will buy the DVDs and lend them out or give them to libraries, etc, and make new fans. That's what we want, right? At worst, this is a blip that no one notices. I really, truly doubt Universal will think one thing or another no matter which way it goes. And I think people who think that Universal will take this negatively if there is no bump in sales are being alarmist.

Look, I was there when we were called zealots. I was there when a few websites blamed Serenity's failure on Browncoats evangelizing. I understand the knee-jerk reaction to want to shut down anything from people we don't know, and who are either naive or up to no good. But we have to understand that everyday, there are new fans arriving, and if we shut down everything they do, stomp on their enthusiasm before they get a word out, or shout down every idea we don't agree with, pretty soon this fandom will get ugly, and the new fans won't be here long.

Remember when this stuff was fun? Remember when we all had dreams about Firefly getting resurrected? Remember when we heard about the movie getting green-lighted? And then we all dreamed about it being the next Big SF Franchise? The hope of a sequel? Then the dreams being dashed when the first week's box-office didn't pan out? Well, many of these new fans are going through that too. We don't need to kill that in the new fans. Is it unrealistic to think if there is a spike in DVD sales on the 23rd that we'll get a sequel? Of course! But it's fun to dream about, it doesn't hurt anyone, and every little bit of revenue does count.

Trust me, in time, either the new fans will be right, and we can thank them for more Serenifly, or they'll be wrong and become bitter like the rest of us. :) In the meantime, I see no reason to be so negative to people who are simply volunteering their time trying to bring us something most of us want.
gossi ~ Pretty obviously, I have nothing against 11th Hour. In fact, she draws very pretty pictures. Nothing against any of the organisers, either, or think down on them. Nor do I have anything against fan campaigns (and if I did, I'd clearly hate myself).

Just to set the record straight for anyone still tracking this thread, I'm not connected with the group organizing the Serenity Day campaign. I was just on hand during the beginning to offer feedback and some advice... with mixed results.

Anyhoo, I was specifically requested by email to post here because the thread had heated up and that wasn't constructive, for anyone. So I offered my take on what was happening with an eye to adding a calming and positive vibe. As people have been pointing out, it is possible to have a discussion without attacking or making unkind personal remarks to people who do not share your views... even though it is kinda hard to manage sometimes.

I also posted to state my preference for the date for Serenity Day (September 30th), and suggest the day take more of a form of a "thank you" to Universal, rather than a rally for sequels. You win a few, you lose a few.

So I've said my piece, and the organization of the campaign is up to other people... people not me.
As someone who commented on 'the Result' aspect of the site as originally linked - I'd just like to say that, IMHO of course, the current incarnation looks much better.
Yeah, nobody will read this.

I just wanted to add in terms of dreaming...I will quote something from the 'verse(look at me Im a crazy foolish freak quoting things from an imaginary show, I must be a loser who will scare all the non-browncoats away!!!! forgive my snark I couldnt resist :P)

"It does not matter what you believe, just believe!" And thats how I want to operate.
kurya, just to let you know: I read your post, dude! ;-)
Wohoooo! Someone noticed me! Thanx billz! Appreciate the reading of my post ;)
I read it too :)
Yeah, me too. I guess I reeeeeeeally don't want ot be working. ;-)
Hee. This is the first time I've seen people posting on a topic not on the front page.
Really? I do it all the time. We've had some parties back here.
Party? did someone mention party? lets PARTAY!!! ... ok sorry...I just really want to dance...I am sorely in need of some dancing

*dances...* doubt anyone will see this! And it may be a good thing. It might even make Elaine-style dancing seem good...

[ edited by kurya on 2006-04-27 23:20 ]
I will now start paying attention to old topics.

I do notice that occasionally people post in old Joss topics about completely random things..
Hmmm you mean like dancing? btw if anyone is curious, I am dancing to Black eyes peas "Hump".... "my hump , my hump..... "
and paying attention to old topics? I mean its hard enough to keep track of the new topics.
Hump? You hump? That woke my cat up.
Im not humping... ewwww... That is quite inproper behaviour. Its hump...as in the rump...as in the derriere....
What you gon' do with all that junk? All that junk inside your trunk?
Is that somebody's milkshake bringin' all the boys on the yard, or is everyone just happy to be partying posting on an old topic? ;-)
I try to check "recent comments" just to catch comments on threads that have dropped off the first page. I am just sorry we cannot get a listing of comments made since a certain date of our choosing or when we last signed on. Caroline did make the "recent comments" list much longer than it used to be however, and that was really helpful.
Yeah I always use the "recent comments" and was very happy when it was extended. I still sometimes miss stuff but less than if I just use the main page.

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