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April 29 2006

Wired: Why Firefly will Never Die. The May issue of Wired has a brief article on browncoatsriseagain.com, with a photo of Andrew Schultz, the founder.

I think that I speak for everyone when I say that a continuation of the Firefly series -- or a sequel to Serenity -- would rock super hard. If this isn't doable, then Joss could take the Star Trek route and base a new series around a new or previous generation.

I think it would be interesting to see that Zoe was pregnant during Serenity, and that a Next Generation show would include her and Wash's son. A prequel to the series and the movie could flesh out the lead-up to the war.

Just some thoughts. :)
I think it'd be more interesting to see Zoe _not_ pregnant. 'cause, really, it's the obvious way forward, and babies are not so interesting on TV.

I'd also, to be honest, rather not see a '20 years later' kinda series. Why? Because it might suck. The reason Firefly came together so well was because, well, it just did. The creative team was exceptionally strong, they got a very very good cast, and a heap of bad luck to go with the good luck.

Right now, I'd like to see a sequel to Serenity. I know Firefly is not ever going to be reappearing (sorry, Wired).

On the other side of the publicity front, the following station websites are running Serenity Equality Now articles (that I wrote... I never thought I'd be writing for Fox. I feel dir-tay.):

* 27 April 2006: KPWB WB23 (Ankeny IA)
* 27 April 2006: KNIN 9 (Boise ID)
* 27 April 2006: WTWB TV20 (Greensboro NC)
* 27 April 2006: KREN WB27 (Reno NV)
* 27 April 2006: WFLI Chattanooga's WB (Chattanooga TN)
* 27 April 2006: FOX Fayetteville-Fort Smith (Fort Smith AR)
* 27 April 2006: UPN 46 St. Louis (St. Louis MO)
* 27 April 2006: Midland's WB 4 South Carolina (Elgin SC)
* 27 April 2006: NBC-WKTV News Channel 2 (Utica NY)
* 27 April 2006: WRAZ FOX 50 (Durham NC)
* 27 April 2006: CBS-TV-3 WSHM (Springfield MA)
* 27 April 2006: WBNG-TV 12 (Johnson City NY)
* 27 April 2006: FOX 26 KMVU-TV (Medford OR)
* 26 April 2006: FOX Central Oregon
* 26 April 2006: KFRE WB59 (Fresno CA)
* 26 April 2006: KSCW Kansas' WB (Wichita KS)
* 26 April 2006: KXVO WB 15 Omaha's WB (Omaha NE)
* 26 April 2006: Alaska's Superstation (Anchorage AK)
* 26 April 2006: KETK NBC 56 (Tyler TX)
* 25 April 2006: KEYT 3 (Santa Barbara CA)

(By the way, it's hilarious seeing websites Fox pays for running articles about Serenity. Well, slightly funny. To me.)

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-29 01:31 ]
But I think I speak for everyone as well that Firefly should only continue with both Joss and Tim; without both of them you don't have the same show.

Fingers crossed for Serenity 2 though! (And it's my first comment on WHEDONesque, I FINALLY didn't miss the sign up window.)

[ edited by Topher on 2006-04-29 01:55 ]
Firefly is so too good to let die . . .

I whole-heartedily agree.
Tim Mine-ear for Serenity 2! I haven't said that since, like, last year.
I have to disagree, gossi. I'd love for Zoe to be pregnant. One, because it is the logical step. Two, because the point of that story would not be the baby itself, but how the baby affects Zoe's choices, and how to try and have a safer life, she may eventually leave the ship.

And frankly, that's how I saw Firefly ending. As Mal put the pieces of himself more and more back together, everyone else would leave Serenity to pursue their lives in other directions, with Mal himself finally coming to a point where he no longer needs the ship, as this rebirth/rediscovery he's been on, has run its course.
Wired does know that Firefly is dead doesn't it? And it's the Serenity 'verse now.
Well, as a final season plotline I could roughly see that. In terms of dramatical elements, babies are troublesome. That said, if Zoey was to remove herself from the ship, I think it'd spin Mal's moral compass a bit.

I tend to think TV shows work best when they deny viewers the obvious things they want, and give them something which is a slap in the face -- and then the characters react in a way in which you learn something about them, but still love them. Which, of course, makes me evil. It's so obvious to have Zoe preggers, everybody suggests it. Is the bigger heartbreak the fact she thinks she might be, but isn't? Is there an episode coming off that, about dreaming about things which can never be, and the realism of the present day situation? Is the dream better than the present day situation? Or is the present day situation just more real?

I don't know. Realistically, whatever plot lines have the furthest ripples in terms of characters and situation (read: change) are usually appealing. So, there is an argument there to introduce a baby, to give it a fresh perspective. Would you be robbing banks with a baby depending on you? Would you be robbing banks with a crew depending on you? Are they so different?

Me? I'd put things in to directly conflict Mal with Zoe. They're old war buddies, but they have a different point of view, and if you can find something which totally conflicts between the two of them, you had potential for great drama.
You wanna talk evil? Have Zoe carrying her dead husband's baby, then lose it. Or die during childbirth.
Wonderful find, gossi! I'm still cracking up over the Fox airing. How ironic!
Zoe pregnant? Oh no. Oh hell no.
See, it's the future: women don't get pregnant by accident or unintentionally any more. (They shouldn't these days either, but that's another rant.)
And Zoe's not stupid. She wouldn't just--oops!--"get pregnant". Yes, she mentioned wanting to have a child, but she knows the situation she lives in. Again: Zoe's not stupid.
The only way I'd accept Zoe being pregnant would be if it was Mal's baby.
Yeah, I said it. MAL'S baby. (Imagine the scenario, if you will. Mal goes into Zoe's room to check up on his close and trusted friend, and...well, some comiseration happens. "Didn't mean for this to happen..." yadda-yadda-yadda. But even with this scenario, I can't see it (the pregnant part) happening because as I said before, Zoe's not stupid. If you know what I mean...and I know ya do.)
Ooo-wee! Think of the drama and the tension between Zoe, Mal...and Inara.
It would be off the hook.
I'm just sayin...

[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2006-04-29 03:11 ]
Zoe's not stupid, no. But she is human. And sometimes, despite intentions to the contrary, things happen.

And remember:

WASH
Well, I'm not sure now is the best
time to bring a tiny little helpless
person into our lives.

ZOE
That excuse is getting a little worn,
honey.

WASH
It's not an excuse, dear. It's
objective assessment. I can't help it
if it stays relevant.

ZOE
I don't give a good gorram about
relevant, Wash. Or objective. And I'm
not so afraid of losing something
that I won't try havin' it. You and
I would make one beautiful baby. I
want to meet that child one day.

Yes, she knows the situation she's in, but she also wouldn't let that stop her.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-04-29 03:28 ]
Yes, she knows the situation she's in, but she also wouldn't let that stop her.

Do you really think that would extend to deceiving her husband?
I never said anything about deceiving Wash. Where did I say that?
I never said anything about deceiving Wash. Where did I say that?

How else would she be pregnant, given that Wash didn't want it, unless she deceived him by making sure pregnancy wasn't avoided?
Time has passed since they had the conversation I quoted. Near a year. Opinions change.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-04-29 04:15 ]
Oh wow, gossi, having Zoe think she might be pregnant with Wash's baby but then having her turn out not to be would be possibly the most evilly heartbreaking thing that has ever been done to a fictional character! But as you say, everyone's suggesting pregnant Zoe, and it seems like every show eventually does the baby storyline, so having a disappointment would certainly be shocking and fresh.

On the other hand, does anyone else find the idea of Jayne getting pressed into diaper duty oddly charming?

If they did do the baby thing, I would hope that they wouldn't do the obvious and make it essentially Wash Jr. to replace Wash; it would be much more interesting if it was a real mix of Wash and Zoe.

Re. the Firefly 'verse vs. the Serenity 'verse: I think that to most fans the names are somewhat interchangeable (I myself like Sereni-Fly, but that doesn't really seem to have caught on) so to speak of "Firefly" being dead may be correct in a narrowly legal sense, but not in a more general sense since there still seems to be a fair bit of hope for more stories from the 'verse in which "Firefly" was set (I can't tell how serious you were being with your comment, Simon, so I apologize if you were joking).
Well, Firefly as a franchise -- aside from the Titan books -- is pretty much dead.

That said, I think there's some way to go in the Serenity franchise. If nothing else, there's comics and books still due. And I suspect there will be a video game in the next few years. Universal still have a moderately large (as in, big but not Star Wars) sized fan base they can market at.

In terms of actual story, Serenifly is pretty generic -- all kinds of situations and changes can be applied. Firefly - as the idea of a weekly Television series - is dead. Firefly, as the story of a crew on a ship, will never die - it will live on in the hearts of the viewers, as evident in this topic.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-04-29 05:02 ]
I seem to remember many people speculating after seeing Serenity that Kaylee would soon be pregnant, what with her and Simon being an item and all. If I were the one "being evil," gossi, I would have Kaylee and Simon have a baby, then somehow remove Kaylee from the picture (I can't bring myself to type the words "kill her off"), so that Zoe takes on the role of raising Kaylee's child. (shock icon here)

Now, I certainly wonder about Zoe/Mal sometimes, but they have been war buddies/partners-in-crime for so long, I can't see that changing just because Wash has died. I mean, remember how awkward it was when they were fake-"getting-it-on" at the end of War Stories? Even Jayne said it was disturbing. Nope, I don't think they would get together as lovers. But, if someone was needed to raise Kaylee's child -- that might awaken some paternal feelings in Mal (he certainly seems to have paternal/older brother feelings about Kaylee herself), and he might be at Zoe's side as a co-parent. Which would, of course, make all kinds of friction with Simon, the biological father. And we all know we love to see Mal and Simon pissed off at each other. I'm just sayin'.

But, look, I love Kaylee, and hope she lives forever in the 'Verse. (Of course, I felt the same way about Wash -- sometimes, just like in life, people we love die.) I'm. Just. Sayin'. ;-)
GlowWorm to answer your question, if there's one thing I'm serious about it's about the future of the franchise. I feel that Firefly is dead. It's as dead as Angel is, it's not coming back and Joss is done with it.

However, I don't think Joss is done with Serenity quite yet. I think there is a slim chance more adventures could come but it won't be for a long time (5 years?).
As gossi said, a baby on TV or in a movie is rarely interesting stuff. See Angel S3: they had the baby connor only for a few episodes, and then managed to make him grow quickly in order to have a full-flegde character that could evolve and react.

Storywise, a baby is nothing more than an evoluted prop. This prop can be useful to make other characters react, but it is not interesting by itself. Think about Serenity (the ship): it's the love of the other characters for this ship which is interesting, not the ship by itself. Hence, bringing a baby in the story would only lead to bring another "essential prop", and I don't think, from what I have seen of Firefly and Serenity, that it would be very interesting in this 'verse, to tell those stories (it might, but I am doubtful and I think there are better ways to torture those characters).

Another point for the "non-baby option": anytime I watch Hearts of Gold and the dialogue between Wash and Zoe, I think about what will happen to Wash a few months after and I find its death to be even more dramatic, considering what Zoe wanted. Hence, the "pregnant" option would only lead to soften Wash's death, and in my not-so-humble opinion, this is NOT something to do!

That said, consider this: some of us (from what I read here) do not want Zoe to be pregnant, because this is "the obvious" stuff and, as gossi said, the obvious stuff is not something to give to your viewers. But Joss could play on this: give the obvious stuff, softening the drama for a while, and then use it to go to an even deeper drama...

I guess we'll never know, anyhow.
GlowWorm to answer your question, if there's one thing I'm serious about it's about the future of the franchise. I feel that Firefly is dead. It's as dead as Angel is, it's not coming back and Joss is done with it.

However, I don't think Joss is done with Serenity quite yet. I think there is a slim chance more adventures could come but it won't be for a long time (5 years?).


One day, you'll have to explain me how you all can be so schizophrenic about Firefly/Serenity.

To me, Firefly and Serenity are the same thing. Serenity is a sequel to Firefly... or sometimes a ship... and sometimes a valley on a distant planet... and sometimes a state of being... as well as Firefly is sometimes a bug... wait, now I understand how you can be schizophrenic ;)

When I think about "continuation" of Firefly/Serenity, I think about anything on a screen (small or large, stand-alone or series...) with those actors in this 'verse and from Whedon. I don't separate the series from the movie.

The continuation in comic books (sorry: graphic novels... roll eyes) or novels is another stuff: that's not my first choice, but I'll take it anyhow.
Le Comite, 'comic books' is fine with most people (uncollected it's what they are anyway, I just don't see how anyone can call something 22 pages long a novel - of any kind - though there might be some that'd try so i'll join you in the eye rolling). Also, I think most people use 'Firefly' to refer specifically to the TV show so that Simon is saying it won't be back as a regular ongoing series (*sniff* ;).

I don't see Zoe becoming pregnant by mistake because, frankly, she just has her shit down too much for that but, personally, I feel as others do that babies are only useful as plot devices anyway (it'd be great to see a character on a show develop from baby to child to teenager etc. but it takes a long time and is pretty dull for the early years). Baby Connor was there to give Angel momentary happiness so it could be taken from him (and for the rest of the cast to make goo-goo eyes over) and was otherwise, as mentioned above, basically a prop. A hungry, angry prop ;).

Also, wouldn't want to see Mal leave the ship though I think he'd have to leave 'Serenity' (the place/idea/dysfunction) eventually. For me, if he left the ship that'd be like ending a great love story with a divorce. Maybe realistic and certainly a resolution but not a happy or positive one. One ending i'd have liked (and so almost definitely NOT the way Joss would've done it) would be to have all but one of the rest of the crew leaving the ship to Mal with the closing shot being him repainting the name with "Inara" (1,2,3, awww, yes, I am a right soft bastard ;-).
I'm sorry, but the Wired article makes us sound very, very scary. See, we have a weird PR thing going on...every time Browncoats are singled out in the press, it's about how peculiar and obsessive they are, and not exactly in a positive light. I mean, the article does not intentionally skew negative...but it would kinda make me dismiss the fans as crazed lunatics were I not already one. Sorta like Star Wars hardcores.

And as for Zoe being pregnant...I'm all for that.
Star Trek didn't re-emerge as a movie until 10 years after the series ended. A new series didn't emerge for 18 years.

A new Battlestar Galactica did not re-emerge until 24 years later.

The Firefly universe may not return as soon as we would like, but I think it's far too premature to call it dead yet.
OK, how about 'Just Resting' ? ;)

True, anything's possible but then when isn't premature to call it dead ? 10 years with no sign of resurrection ? 20 ? In one sense there's hope as long as a single cast member and/or Joss remain alive but for me, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, Firefly won't be back as an ongoing series (Joss, Nathan and possibly others have said in interview that Firefly the series is over as well). Obviously, i'd be ecstatic to be proven wrong though.
Here we go, I knew I'd find the quote I was looking for. This is from the Joss Whedon interview at USA Today's Pop Candy blog last December.

But, you know, we'll never make Firefly again, because that was a thing that existed and is now gone. And Serenity isn't Firefly, and whatever comes next won't be, either. But I would love to tell more stories of this universe and to hang out with these people on and off for the rest of my career.

Aha, but he also says "stories of this universe," which personally, is what I'm talking about when I say Firefly. And technically, Serenity the Movie exists in Firefly's universe, not the other way around.

And yay, UnpluggedCrazy! Zoe Pregnant in 2519! There should be signs. ;-)
Well I know this is turning into something akin to interpreting the words of a prophet but I see it as Firefly (i.e. the show) is gone and what ever comes next will be different.
hm. If Zoe had a baby, given the way Jossverse pregnancies usually turn out, it would be to a hungry goddess or a teenaged feral boy intent on destroying his parent. So, no, she better not be pregnant; it'd probably get eaten by a Reaver and the fandom would erupt in a holy war that would put the "save Wash" thing to shame.
Gossi time! (I really don't know why I typed that).

When I think about "continuation" of Firefly/Serenity, I think about anything on a screen (small or large, stand-alone or series...) with those actors in this 'verse and from Whedon. I don't separate the series from the movie.

See, I seperate Firefly from Serenity entirely. Firefly -- for me -- is the premise of a weekly TV show, in TV form, about mudane living on the fringe of society. Serenity is a motion picture, which tends to have a premise of heroes saving the world. It's a completely different format. The reason FF is dead is simple - Fox cancelled it, and nobody else will fund it. It wasn't because it was a bad show. The actors are all out of TV contracts, and the idea that it'll all come back together in 10, 20, 30 years just is not going to happen. Which is incredibly shit, but at the same time I've come to accept it.

I'm sorry, but the Wired article makes us sound very, very scary. See, we have a weird PR thing going on...every time Browncoats are singled out in the press, it's about how peculiar and obsessive they are, and not exactly in a positive light.

Well, in fairness, over 20 US TV station websites are now running the Equality Now screenings of Serenity, with taglines like "'Serenity' Benefits Director’s Favorite Charity". I don't think that comes across as nuts, personally - at least I hope not!

And, to continue this epic post (I've been infected with ZachsMind), my ideal ending for Serenifly? This actually counts as 'a moment', and -- this is very cookey -- I dreamed it last night. (Get out of my head already). Mal. Inara. On land, on a cliff. Mal is looking out into the ocean. Inara is facing the opposite direction, looking into land. The camera pulls into the characters, from the cliff, past Inaras face, swings around over the corner of the cliff to Mals face, back around to Inara, and pulls back and they hold hands, wind blowing their hair everywhere. Mal is on land, and he has peace about where he is. The end.
As for Firefly never coming back, I don't think that Firefly would still be "Firefly" if it was still running and hadn't been cancelled. Just like the 4th season of Buffy was very much different from Buffy's 1st season. Still, I don't think the odds of something sometime emerging set in this universe are zero, but it will be different from what we have seen before (which is a good thing, because we can always watch our old DVD's for the old things).

Anyway, am I the only one who thinks that, though the Serenifly verse, like for me the Buffyverse, is interesting and offers a wide variety of good stories, the reason I like the shows is how this universe is used (i.e. which stories are chosen), not what the universe itself is. Therefore I am not convinced that a Firefly sequel made by someone other than Joss or Tim would be better than something else this someone could make. And also not that the things Joss (and Tim) make instead of Firefly won't be just as good as a sequel of Firefly made by them. (As long as they get the freedom to make something and develop it into something good. Unfortunately the last part isn't always true; hasn't Tim worked on three successive "cancelled while the first seasons arc was just starting" tv-shows?)
OK, let me get this straight. Zoe had Mal's baby which was really Jayne's. But, there's a bank heist in the feed and....Well, the masses are awaiting a story. Please tell.
I just finished reading this thread and there seem to be some odd disconnects.

"I think it'd be more interesting to see Zoe _not_ pregnant. 'cause, really, it's the obvious way forward, and babies are not so interesting on TV."

"Right now, I'd like to see a sequel to Serenity. I know Firefly is not ever going to be reappearing (sorry, Wired)."

You are right, Gossi, babies are tough to make work on TV series...but since I also agree with you that a TV series is not in the offing that really isn't an issue, is it? A baby in a movie can be a much different thing.

I'm all for Zoe being pregnant. I do not think it softens the tragedy of Wash's death because it is a killer to see a child grow and develop and know you cannot share that child with the person who would love them and care for them better than anyone. It rips your heart out. (...and we all know who is in the heart ripping business.)

I do not have time to frequent other boards so I do not know what others are saying, but I never thought of Mal giving up Serenity for anything. I do not think he would want to give up Zoe for anything either. If Zoe were pregnant (and I could see Zoe finally having convinced Wash to have a child) I think Mal, and most everyone else would try and get her to stay on board. A baby can be a logistical nightmare so the whole crew would have to pitch in. Kaylee could have a bed for him/her in the engine room and it might turn out that Jayne knows a whole lot more about babies than we ever thought. Meanwhile how would Zoe really react to the whole thing? Would a baby that constantly reminds her of her lost husband make her more or less maternal. Would everyone else having a hand in raising her child make her grateful or get on her nerves or both. What would Inara's reaction to having a baby around be?

In real life babies and pregnancy have a very strong and often unexpected impact on people, both men and women. I have not really seen that truthfully shown very often...or maybe at all. It would be interesting to see someone of Joss's caliber with such a gift for being unsentimental while being very emotional examine what such a thing would do to that group of people.
Actually, I will conceed I always think of babies in the context of TV (guess who doesn't have any children?). A baby on board Serenity in a _motion picture_ is different. This allows time for you to actually shoot, and not have the pressure of TV on top of it. However, if Tim Minear were to write a Serenity sequel, play to god there's no baby... It wouldn't last long. :o)

With regards Mal leaving Serenity, I haven't seen many fans speculating on this either - it's kinda the point of the TV series. But I could never have seen Angel taking over Wolfram and Hart.

With the ship, you have Mal, who is running from the government, trying to find a home. You have Inara, who is running from... something big. Simon. River. They're all running. My absolute ideal (and therefore, should probably never happen) resolution to the entire thing is the idea they don't need to run from anything and everything any more. Which is to a large part what the movie provided, but we all know there's more story, and that's the heartbreakin' thing about it.
...But IMO Serenity is not just a means to run away. For Mal, it is freedom. It is a way to have a home that he has a better chance of keeping and protecting. He has his home. I do not think a home on land is needed or would ever make him happy. He would not feel that security of being able to pick up his home and his loved ones and move them out of danger. I actually don't see the problem with that. In some ways, Gossi, you got your wish at the end of the first movie. They do not seem to need to run any more. Now Mal can keep his ship flying in peace...or can he? ;-)

I think Joss will probably keep the Serenity sequels pretty much to himself or at least keep himself as the primary person on the project(s). (Did anyone else find it a little rude to tell Joss that you really hoped that someone else would write the next Serenity movie? I flinched when someone said that on whatever tape it was. We don't all feel that way Joss! We like your work...honest.)

Joss has kids, and I am waiting to see how that will influence his work. Trust me Gossi, it makes complicated human relationships more complicated in ways people never talk about. When you add single motherhood to it, it can get down-right weird. Many people want you to become a stereotype utsy cutsy mommy and to get sickeningly sweet when discussing the coming baby, no matter what your personality is. You are going to have a baby. This conforming personality change is more than expected, it is demanded. If you do not suddenly go weak in the knees over cutsy stuff there is something wrong with you.

A pregnant woman also becomes community property with everyone feeling they can tell her what she should or should not be eating or doing. At the same time everyone seems to feel they have a right to touch her in ways that are out of bounds to non-pregnant women...usually around the stomach area.

This abates a bit after the child is born, but everybody else still knows best. Men are often defensive that a single mother is a threat to their place in the world. If women don't need men when they have children, are men really needed at all? Women range from wondering whether you are going to go after their husbands to a surprising number admitting, usually very quietly after they have had a few drinks and their husbands are not around, that they respect you because the only reason they got married or stay in the marriage was to have a child or take care of the children. :-O

...Then there is the dynamic with the people who couldn't or chose not to have children. Always a little different, one to the next.

Meanwhile the mother does view life differently. If you thought long term before, it is nothing when you start looking at what might be happening in the world when your son turns 18. If you did not think long term, you have reason to start.

I would not necessarily expect any of this in Serenity. I'm just saying that a baby can mean a lot more than "Who is going to change the baby's diapers? Aw isn't it sweet that we are all used to poo now?"
AmazonGirl said:
Zoe pregnant? Oh no. Oh hell no.
See, it's the future: women don't get pregnant by accident or unintentionally any more.


On the other hand, it is the future; if Zoe wants Wash’s baby, there’s probably frozen sperm or some such.
Saje and gossi, the both of you shock me with your "right soft bastard"-ness. Those are awfully mushy finales for our 'Verse! ;-)

I agree with newcj that being on Serenity is not "losing out" on having a home on land -- it is a wonderful gift of freedom. Keep flying! There are certainly ship captains and "Navy men" in history (probably by now, "Navy women," too) who spent their whole lives sailing, felt trapped when they were on dry land. I think staying on Serenity for the rest of his life would be quite a happy outcome for Mal. :-)

As for Inara/Mal -- I guess I'm just no shipper. I always felt that, like Moonlighting, once they get together, most of the heat that has been generated by their UST would just fade, and there'd be nothing left to keep them together. Mal has more in common with both Zoe and Kaylee than with Inara, but has chosen to have platonic, even brotherly, relationships with those two. Still, to "go off into the sunset," I never got the feeling that Mal and Inara were all that suited because of their wildly different backgrounds and experiences. Now, maybe there are surprises to be found in Inara's mysterious past that would give her more basis for "something in common" with Mal, but being raised on Sihnon seems to put her most literally in another world. Look at how their worlds clashed in Shindig. Sure, they could have a great affair for a while, loads of, er, fun for both parties, but I don't see them being together forever, marching down the aisle, etc., or if they do get married, I could never imagine them staying married.

I guess I am stuck on the idea that opposites attract, but only while the sexual attraction, er, attracts, and once that is burned out (and I do believe that relationships based ONLY on sexual attraction do eventually burn out), then you're sitting across the breakfast table from someone you have nothing to talk about with, and how long can you put up with that? (Yes, Zoe and Wash were opposite types, but they seemed to have been more "complementary" than opposite, IMO -- Wash's humor brought out Zoe's fun side, and Zoe's strength & courage empowered Wash [as in the second half of War Stories].)

I'm a right pragmatic bastard, apparently. ;-)
Did I say closing shot ? I meant penultimate shot, followed by a big shootout and lots of football and drinking. There may even be wolf-whistles ;).

Yeah, I agree with newcj/billz as I hinted above. Serenity the place/idea is Mal's prison but you only have to watch 'Out of Gas' to see that 'Serenity' the ship is much, much more than that. Watch him stroke her and stay with her through an apparent death sentence. That's not something he's trying (or needs) to escape from. She's freedom and independence and the only thing he could allow himself to truly love after the battle of Serenity valley. With her, he sniffs the air, without her, he's just another dirt kisser.

(and incidentally, one reason I think Mal/Inara have more in common than appears is that in OoG Inara says she fell in love with Serenity the first time she saw her i.e. just exactly as Mal does. Apparent opposites can often enjoy long term relationships since underneath, where almost no-one else gets to see, they're actually pretty similar)

Also, newcj, i'm slightly more convinced that the pregnancy idea could work as a plotline by your points. Seeing a few close friends become pregnant it amazed me the liberties people (sometimes complete strangers) would take with their bodies some of which would be considered extremely intrusive if they weren't expecting. Seeing Zoe deal with that would be pretty funny by itself (demure acceptance doesn't figure much in my imaginings ;).

The single mother idea i'm slightly less convinced by since it'd only be with non-crew that it'd be an issue (I think to the crew she'd still be Zoe no matter what) so I could see it having to be shoe-horned into plots rather than naturally flowing. Still, potential I guess.
(Did anyone else find it a little rude to tell Joss that you really hoped that someone else would write the next Serenity movie? I flinched when someone said that on whatever tape it was. We don't all feel that way Joss! We like your work...honest

It was, in fact, me who asked if Tim Minear could write the next film to Joss on that tape.

The reasoning is simple: the question had come up before, I pretty much recall Joss and Tim had discussed it at some point yadada. So why did I ask that question? That's simple - the lend support to the idea, and implant it in the fandom's brain. (Scared? You should be!).

I don't think it was a rude question really. Joss probably knows how much respect I have for his work, given that I tried -- in a very drunken, now embarrased way -- to tell him that last year. Joss' work quite literally formed my opinion of gender equality and story telling, whilst Tim's work added the elements of narrative structure and emotional pain to my understanding of things. Both of those people produced the programming I obsessively watched from 17-23. I literally can't think of somebody better placed to write a Serenity sequel than Tim, assuming he can handle the constants of the movie format.
Sorry Gossi, I love you to pieces...in a purely platonic, old enough to be your mother kind of way...but I still flinch. Maybe if you had started it with, "If you are not in a position to write a Serenity sequel,..." I know it is tough in front of everybody with the nerves and all, but sometimes we just misspeak and say something that comes out in a way that we don't mean. The good news is, I'm sure you are right and Joss did know what you meant.

I also think Mal and Inara have a lot in common in a whole lot of ways. I think Inara's desire for freedom and control of her life is one of the things that both draws her to Serenity and scares her away from both Serenity and Mal.
gossi...okay, the TV stations running stories about the benefit screenings sound great. But the Wired article is just a touch scary.
Well, reading newcj's and Saje's very insightful explanations does make me think Mal and Inara might have more in common than I thought, but having a love of freedom and independence in common doesn't necessarily spell "permarelationship," IMO. It still sounds like a few years of good times with some fights sprinkled in, till finally the need for independence leads to a mutual parting of the ways. (I am so unromantic!) But this isn't necessarily a bad thing; look at Buffy and Angel, same thing -- huge attraction and feelings, but they just couldn't stay together due to, er, complications, so they both got on with their lives. And their post-relationship lives were very interesting, too, as interesting as their lives were when they were a couple (well, as much of a couple as they ever were). :-)

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