Great bunch of links, ta Simon. Could I be cheeky and suggest a spoiler tag though ? The Rob Thomas one especially has a huge Veronica Mars spoiler in the first paragraph (i.e. before the interview) for those who haven't watched the last few season 2 episodes yet.

(i'm going to pick through the BK Vaughan one very carefully, while squinting, with one eye shut, just in case he says 'blah blah comics blah blah Joss blah blah and by the way Yorick is an alien' ;)

ETA: I no longer have anything to add ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2006-05-12 11:11 ]

[ edited by Saje on 2006-05-12 11:12 ]

Saje | May 12, 13:07 CET

There's now a spoiler mention beside the relevant link as a heads up for people who don't want to be spoiled.

Simon | May 12, 13:13 CET

Earlier this year we did an air band episode, partly because we knew it would be really funny, partly because we knew we could release an air band video on the website. We came up with a story where we released Turk's cell phone number on one of the episodes with a real number, and then the cast and crew took turns answering it. We still occasionally answer it because, believe it or not, it still rings. It's very odd to me. I think it's when people get the DVD. So we answer it and talk to them.

Guh - that's so freakily cool!

gossi | May 12, 13:16 CET

On the Serena Robar interview. Never heard of her, but I wanted to say how cool it is to see episodes like Help and Wild at Heart show up on top ten lists.

sungoesdark | May 12, 14:23 CET

Joss must feel proud to have his creation referenced so often.
IMO, anyone who took the time to watch BTVS would have no way to fight against becoming a loyal fan. It's that good. Joss has a way of sucking you in and keeping you there.
Great stuff.

cheryl | May 12, 14:48 CET

As an American, I'm not sure if I should feel embarrassed to witness a public bunging like this. Great, er, bunged links, Simon!

I really, really like the Unified Theory of Nothing Much (there's been links to her site before), but it was a little hard to read -- did anyone else have trouble with the low contrast between the font color and the background color? (I had to highlight the text to read it.) I'm just sayin'.

billz | May 12, 15:22 CET

I hesitate to ask but, go on then, what does 'bung' mean in the US ? I'm gonna go way out on a limb and assume something rude ;)

(over here it's just slang for 'throw' or 'place' e.g. 'Where do you want these incredibly fragile and valuable china dolls ?', 'Oh, just bung 'em in the back of the van' which is often heard between removals men ;)

Re: font colour, on Opera with standard settings it's greyish black text on a biege background, pretty stand-outy ;).

Saje | May 12, 16:04 CET

I will now take this opportunity to state that I love Scrubs. It's quite possibly my favorite "comedy" show ever.

war_machine | May 12, 16:37 CET

Can't forget Shonda Rhimes (Grey's Anatomy) and her love for Buffy.

BlindHawkeyes | May 12, 18:12 CET

And in other (not front page-worthy) news: I picked up the latest copy of Wired magazine for a plane flight earlier this week, and found, not one, but two Whedon references. The first was to a certain campaign to get more Firefly. The second, more throwaway, comment used "Buffy fan sites" as an example in a sidebar about, IIRC, introducing new ways of charging for Internet use. Good to see cultural references to Joss's stuff remain high.

SoddingNancyTribe | May 12, 18:22 CET

Um. American here. I think I have only heard "bung" used rarely a long time ago in a way that does not make much sense in the context used here. To make it more confusing, it has British slang cannections in my mind, not American.

Soooooo...I guess I am of no help what so ever.

I have not had a chance to read all these links. Sounds like I have a little fun to look forward to.

newcj | May 12, 18:22 CET

A bung is a stopper inserted to seal a container of liquid, such a the cork in a wine bottle. The rude American association is from Beavis and Butthead, in which a certain excretory orifice was referred to as a bunghole. I had to look the last bit up as I never found B&B remotely amusing.

jaynelovesvera | May 12, 18:33 CET

Isn't a "bung" (in the U.K.) also an illegal payment, particularly to the manager of a football team? Or so I seem to remember from tabloid newspapers of recent years . . .

And I never found Beavis and Butthead funny either. At all. It's not the toilet humor as such - Robot Chicken makes my stomach ache with the laughter, - but I think it was singularly uncreative and uninteresting.

SoddingNancyTribe | May 12, 20:36 CET

I am so proud to be called one of his nerds.

Scrubs is the ONLY show on tv I am even loyal to, at the present state. Only thing I record, only thing I wont miss.

No show since Buffy has been so fufilling, EVERY single week. In the characters, writing, humor and drama. And one of the best things about it, is that it always seems to end with a moral. And somehow NEVER comes off as hokey.

I am forever grateful that Scrubs exists. I've been there since the very beginning, and it's helped me keep faith in tv after the Buffyverse ended. I only pray that something comes along to help me out when Scrubs eventually comes to an end.

numbereleven | May 12, 21:27 CET

It's just the hip and trendy thing to do. I myself quite shamelessly name-dropped Joss and Buffy in an interview last year. (Can't find the original link, but see the bold part highlight here...)

[ edited by ReneRitchie on 2006-05-12 20:59 ]

ReneRitchie | May 12, 22:50 CET

Yeah, Saje, I was thinking of "bung" as in "bunghole," and I also occasionally hear it used as a verb of things going wrong, like "That got all bunged up." And as for the color scheme, peaceful beige background? *shakes head* My Mac/Firefox turns the background the color of blue of the decorative dishes in my grandma's bookshelves (if I don't lose all my street cred for saying this, I believe they're called Wedgewood dishes), and the font sort of medium gray. Very colorful, but unreadable! (I wonder why it does that?)

billz | May 12, 22:54 CET

So many things to reply to... head about to explode...

Bunghole, if I'm not mistaken, was an old western term describing the hole in the barrel that the whiskey (and other fluids) is transported in. Think of it as the low-tech keg tap. The bung would be the cork or stopper as described above.

Scrubs is great TV. I'm happy the creators of that show give props to Joss. It seems to me the overall impact of Joss Whedon contributions to modern broadcast television in (the english speaking world, at least) is second only to the impact of reality TV. If/when a scripted drama is called "superbly written", chances are a Whedon-associated writer is somewhere on the staff. When that's not the case, the showrunners at least pay props to the man for raising the bar for such televised creations and demonstrating a show can be a success if and when it is allowed time to grow a core audience.

And finally Veronica Mars: what did everyone think of the season finale? I enjoyed how the show wrapped up season two's big mystery (who caused the bus crash) as well as dealing with a loose end from season one (who raped VM). Once again the revelations came fast and furiously in the season finale and deft writing kept the information from seeming dumped upon the viewer. The apparent death of Keith Mars concerned me for a moment... but then I realized there is no way that character would be dispatched so disrespectfully. When Keith Mars makes his departure he deserves a far more emotional moment along the lines of Joyce Summers on Buffy. I did not believe he was dead. That was the only part of the finale that did not work for me.

What a great VM season! What a great show! CW network if you're mining the blogs... Sign this show up, immediately!! Let Rob Thomas and Co. play for (at least) one more season! :)

[ETA: I invisibled the relevant VM potential spoilage for ya.]

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2006-05-13 00:57 ]

Hjermsted | May 13, 02:31 CET

I love all of the Joss Whedon name-dropping.. especially from people like Rob Thomas and Brian K.Vaughn (who I love).

As for the Veronica mars finale... I had one major problem with it.. I thought that the way they tied up the Woody/Aaron/Duncan storylines were very well done, same with the end of Kendall's plotline, however the end of the bus crash mystery left me slightly unsatisfied.

I totally bought that Cassidy was behind the bus-crash.. I also bought that he was behind the rape.. but I thought that his characterisation in the finale didn't work with what we had learned. I always saw Cassidy as this awkward, unhappy ostracised child, and it is obvious that his own personnel history has messed him up. I can paint a scenario in his head, where considering his brother and how the school sees him, he would feel so threatened by the idea of his molestation getting out.. that he would crash the bus to keep his secret.

I also could see this kid with all these feelings of inadequacy would have raped the drugged Veronica in their Freshman year.. I think he is capable of it.

However, I don't think that him suddenly become a sociopathic utterly evil person like he was on the roof worked. I can see him doing these acts, but he wouldn't have enjoyed it. His smugness as Veronica details his actions, his "walk the plank" dialogue and the "minute long" countdown before he would kill her father were just too far for his character. Look at Cassidy's face when they flashback to the bus crash, when he kills curly, when he removes his belt at the party, this isn't a bond villain, it's someone whose disgusted at what he's doing.. but feels deep down like he'll get away with it.. protect himself.

Maybe it's not how the writers see his character, but there are moments in the episode where I felt like there was a spark of the Cassidy I thought was there... especially in his final moments before he jumps... in the flashbacks.. with mac.

Sorry to go on and on.. it's still a fantastic finale.. and the second season was imo even better than the first. It just bothered me.

[ edited by rabid on 2006-05-13 00:56 ]

rabid | May 13, 02:54 CET

Got to say that 'Scrubs' sounds like an unusually collaborative and fun environment to work in. I can't see too many other shows having the actors actively helping to compile the soundtrack. Bill Lawrence seems like a very genuine, funny guy as well.

I've often wondered about watching the whole of Buffy in a very short time (for the first run through I mean). It seems like it'd have the advantage she mentions of being very immersive but i'm not sure some of the arcs would seem as significant without the time spent in between episodes thinking about the previous week's shock finale or tiny foreshadowy hints of things to come. I know from re-watching Angel that a lot of momentous stories seem less impactful when watched close together (but more fluid). Obviously, I can never watch the shows for the first time in one contiguous block so maybe the slightly lessened effect is solely a product of re-watching (which would make sense too).

And yep, SoddingNancyTribe, bung is also a bribe or back-hander, often in sport (I think partly because slightly less formal language seems more acceptable when talking about footy, even in a newspaper). I suspect this usage may come from the 'throw' meaning (as in 'bung them some money'). Just speculatin' though ;).

We also have the 'bung as a sort of rubber cork' usage in the UK (and from that we might say we're 'bunged up with the cold' as in full of catarrh and just generally congested and feeling a bit 'meh') and I guess from there it's easy to get to Hjermsted's 'bunghole' as in 'a hole for a bung' and thence to billz's/B&B's 'bunghole' as in any other kind of orifice but especially the naughty kind ;). I partly brought it up because Mal describes the alliance as 'bungers' in Serenity and I wondered if that was pure Joss or if he'd taken a rarely used euphemism (in context I suppose it could stand in for 'fuckers' or 'wankers' or even 'bastards') and sent it Five Hunnndred Years Into The Future ! * hums Buck Rogers theme song then sheepishly stops when he becomes aware of the stares *. Anyyyway ... ;)

Saje | May 13, 03:50 CET

rabid, I agree with you exactly. Cassidy's suddenly suave, smug attitude was out of character, even if the actions would make sense for someone who was so desperate to keep his secret (and someone who felt terrible about himself). The only fanwank I could manage is that as he did more bad things, he got better at it, less awkward and self-doubting/self-hating. Maybe some of his shame turned into anger at the world. Maybe Cassidy also gained confidence every time he got away with his crimes -- but that still doesn't explain the high level of arrogance. Maybe a little arrogance, but not as much as we saw.

There was something I wasn't clear on at first, but when I replayed the ep, I think I got it, even if I'm fanwanking some of it: I couldn't figure out how the janitor got that tape of the two boys from the bus talking to Cassidy. Also, why would the janitor care about incorporation? Then I saw the scene with Kendall and the lawyer again, where he's telling her that "betting against incorporation was genius." That's when I realized that Cassidy must have been the one sending those threatening e-mails/audios to Woody, so that incorporation would be defeated and Cassidy's real estate corporation, Phoenix, would profit. Maybe Cassidy's success at getting that to work also boosted his confidence, but, still, it did seem a little too much confidence/enjoyment of his triumph.

I also liked Aaron's ending -- karma's a bitch, dude! And good for Duncan to avenge his sister. ;-)

Hjermsted, I wasn't as logical as you. I did think Keith was dead! As I wrote on another thread, I was yelling at the TV, "Noooo! Don't tell me you've gone Joss on us!" ;-)

Hey, BTW, was that a shout-out to us when Logan snarked to Kendall, "I didn't know you could come out during the day"?

Here's a big question from the last few eps I hope they address next season: Why did Meg's father Mr. Manning bail the janitor out of jail, and why did he offer the bounty to recapture Woody? Did Mr. Manning know about the molestations? Did Meg know? I even wondered if maybe Meg had been on the little league team, too.

Overall, really it was a great finale, with a good cliffhanger (and it looks promising for Charisma to come back)! I have high hopes VM gets a new home at the CW. :-)

billz | May 13, 04:01 CET

Saje, excellent recall of "bungers"! I could see "bung" as a substitute for the f-bomb, as in when I've heard people say "this is all bunged up." Thence, "bungers"=well, you get the idea. Unless "bungers"="buggers"+"bunglers"! ;-)

Or, do you think Joss (through Mal) might have meant that the Alliance plugs things up, like a bung/cork? Nah! They're f'ers! ;-)

(Note to self: Must type faster!)

billz | May 13, 04:08 CET

rabid said about Veronica Mars:
As for the Veronica mars finale... I had one major problem with it..
...the end of the bus crash mystery left me slightly unsatisfied.

I totally bought that Cassidy was behind the bus-crash.. I also bought that he was behind the rape.. but I thought that his characterisation in the finale didn't work with what we had learned...However, I don't think that him suddenly become a sociopathic utterly evil person like he was on the roof worked. I can see him doing these acts, but he wouldn't have enjoyed it. His smugness as Veronica details his actions, his "walk the plank" dialogue and the "minute long" countdown before he would kill her father were just too far for his character...


I agree totally with you rabid. You are more articulate than I was when explaining the same point to a friend who gasped when I said I was disappointed with characterization of Cassidy as villain. They just seemd to pile it on to make him psychopathic evil. I could totally buy him twisted and tortured and slippery sloping into multiple murders, but not the toying cruelly with Veronica with her Dad's death. Also, Cassidy is a smart guy: couldn't he think of a "cleaner" way (i.e. less collateral losses) than to kill a bus load of kids? Plus, he arranged that the '09ers would basically be off the bus, and he's not the type to not care about the "poor" kids (especially since this was his first murder as far as we know), so what gives with that?

The rape thing I was thinking, GOd do they have to pin one more thing on him? I thought it would be Chlamydia passed from Woody to Meg to Duncan to Veronica.

And billz:
Meg's Dad bailed out Lucky because Lucky was a golden boy as far as Meg's parents were concerned--she thought they were grooming him to be her guy (IIRC). I assumed Woody's suspected molestation was announced when he fled, so I thought the reward was because the parents assumed Lucky's snapping was all about Woody, and they are the vengeful type.

My added disappointment was that the ending seemed so rushed, and the characterization was lacking as discussed, and could've perhaps been better if time hadn't been spent on a rushed denouement/lame twist with Jackie and Wallace. Were the writers trying to tie up plots and give cameos to lots of previous appearers (hello mom and Lilly and Duncan in the dream sequence and then Wallace's mom at graduation) because they feared the show being canceled (God forbid)? Like Aaron's death--loved it, but it would've been so juicy drawn out over a few episodes at least.

Still love the show, and hope like hell it returns in the fall.

[ edited by ThereUR on 2006-05-13 04:51 ]

ThereUR | May 13, 06:36 CET

Yes, ThereUR ("Eject, Buckaroo, eject!"), I thought the same thing as you regarding Woody to Meg to Duncan to Veronica. It seemed so plausible! And the Mannings may even have been grooming Lucky as a boyfriend for Meg, as you say, but they aren't exactly parents who seem to support dating. But I disagree that they would have suspected molestation. As abusive parents themselves (psychological abusers), I don't know if they would be so quick to notice what's happening to anyone else's kids. It's just still confusing to me. Truly, your guess is as good as mine! ;-)

I wasn't as bothered by the quick wrap-up to Wallace and Jackie, because I had suspected something was a little off about her for the same reasons Veronica did, and I was also tired of that relationship. ;-)

Since it was high school graduation, I didn't mind that we saw cameos of people we hadn't seen for a while. Everyone shows up for graduation, after all, and it was interesting to see Veronica's image of what her life would have been like if Lilly hadn't been murdered, which started the chain of events that changed everything for Veronica. Sure, she was graduating, but it wasn't the "dream" graduation -- no mom, no loving boyfriend, no Lilly, scraping along as detectives instead of respected members of the community.

I think this is why VM is so great, that people who all like or love the show can all find different things they like and things they dislike, but the balance is still very positive. That's like BtVS/AtS fandom -- some twists and turns rocked some fans and destroyed others (like Tara's death), and some events were interpreted in wholly different ways (like The Gift), but everyone still stuck around for more. :-)

billz | May 13, 06:57 CET

Regarding the Veronica Mars finale. I didn't mind the whole rushed ending to Jackie's storyline. I kind of bought it, and I also wasn't hugely invested in that relationship to begin with. As for the return of the rape storyline.. I actually thought it was an interesting twist which fit in Cassidy's characterisation.

I think what really annoyed me about Cassidy at the end... I honestly believe that if they had made his actions a little less psychotic, his being the killer, his reasoning and his desperation would have had a lot more emotional weight. He would have been someone who out of insecurity and desperation commited several horrible acts, and been forced to stew in his guilt and continue his downfall in order to keep his secrets safe. As is, the only moment where I really felt emotionally involved with that scene was Cassidy's suicide... mainly due to the music and his final lines of dialogue.

Finally, I don't really know what the purpose of the whole dream sequence was, but I liked seeing how things might have went if Lily Kane was never murdered.. it was very well done imo.

However, in the end, it was still a 8.5/10 episode in a 9.5/10 season. I complain because I love.

[ edited by rabid on 2006-05-13 05:14 ]

rabid | May 13, 07:13 CET

Word, rabid. :-)

And, without invisitext, I can spoiler-lessly say that Charisma *rocked*! Yay Charisma! :-)

billz | May 13, 07:19 CET

billz: yup--if it didn't have depth and layers and interesting characters, what would there be to interpret, debate, and stew about? :)

rabid: I agree about the emotional connection with Cassidy. As is, the only moment where I really felt emotionally involved with that scene was Cassidy's suicide... mainly due to the music and his final lines of dialogue. "My NAME is Cassidy!" showed a glimmer of what they could've done to make him a very flawed, but human, villain, who was so damaged and shamed, fearful, and without a support system that he scrambled for control through violence, and it all escalated from there. I find the villains with whom you can sympathize on some level to be the most compelling and horrifying, and ring most true viscerally.

Glad to talk things out with you (hubby for some reason is Sooo not into VM :( )

ThereUR | May 13, 08:14 CET

BTW, you can always discuss VM (and other shows) over at whedonesque.org. It's nice to be able to do it here, but there isn't always a relevant link to do it under...

jam2 | May 13, 09:06 CET

Well said, ThereUR! And now back to our regularly scheduled thread. ;-)

billz | May 13, 12:49 CET

More name dropping, this time about James Marsters' Spike and how they miss the show.. From the Philadelphia inquirer..

And I'm trying a link, SNT.. (keep fingers crossed)


philadelphia inquirer .

[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-05-13 15:51 ]

spikeylover | May 13, 17:50 CET

Yay for Brian K. Vaughn! While I haven't read my most recent issues of Runaways, it's a series I love. I picked it up after Joss sang praises and now I completely understand why he loves it so much. Fans of early Buffy would dig it. However, I can't imagine Vaughn not writing it. Hmmm.

ETA: I'm certain I heard "bung" used in American English to reference the naughty orifice before B&B, but I think B&B just made the term popular in the mainstream. At least for awhile.

[ edited by April on 2006-05-13 22:01 ]

WhoIsOmega? | May 13, 23:59 CET

Just echoing Jam2's reminder - and in fact the discussion for the VM finale thread has (not surprisingly) been particularly active, with over 75 comments so far. Feel free to add to it! And no need to use invisotext there.

acp | May 14, 04:18 CET