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May 16 2006

Veronica Mars renewed. It may have Charisma Carpenter appearing in season 3.

Well at least they told them up front that they might be cut to 13 episodes if they don't do well on CW. Unlike what WB did to Angel in the final season.

Off topic a bit : Michael Muhney (Sheriff Lamb of Veronica Mars) will be doing an online Q&A over at booster events, leading up to the blow out in August. You can submit questions to him on the site.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-05-16 20:53 ]

Hopefully the ratings will improve.


Happy now, all I need to make me happier is news that they were just kidding about bringing 7th Heaven back.
Ah! Great great news.

This is a theoretical woohoo for me, having never been able to see an episode due to its UK satellite burial. But still... woohoo!
BTW, love how you managed a Buffy tie-in there with Charisma.

Raven - I had thought that Sheriff Lamb was dead from the plane explosion. But I guess he didn't have to be there to get K. Mars kicked off the plane, did he.
Okay, maybe Rob, will ask a certain someone for another Car Rental Guy cameo.
I am fricking giddy. I LOVE Veronica Mars.
I have been waiting in breathless anticipation for this news... This is absolutely wonderful. VM is currently the only show on T.V. that I consider a must-watch.
Woooohooooooo! Awesome.

ETA: Lamb isn't dead. He was in Neptune the entire time; Keith calls the LOCAL sheriff to take Woody back. In order for Lamb to be on the plane, he would have to fly out there in order to intercept with Woody and then fly back. It makes much more sense for him just to be waiting at the airstrip where Woody was going to land.

My hope is that Tina Majorino and Michael Muhney become regulars next year.

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-05-16 21:23 ]
Happy dance, everybody! I am keeping my fingers seriously crossed that Veronica Mars comes back to Canada. I'll start praying to the TV gods asap!
Alright!!!! (really pissed about Everwood though.)
Excellent, excellent news.

And, much like Amy Acker photo spreads, I'm guessing Joss would be down with any significant Veronica updates. That and the fact that yes, Charisma would certainly appear to be coming back based on the ending of Season 2.
Right there with you on hoping Tina and Michael are regulars next year, WilliamTheB.
looking, I'm also wondering about Aaron Ashmore, as "The Rapes of Graff" set him up as maybe coming to Hearst next year. I'm not sure whether I'd like that or not.
Best early birthday present EVER! (yep, it's all about me...)

I really hope Tina is made a regular next year too, she's wicked. I think I read somewhere that they wanted her, and it was just a case of striking a deal. Fingers crossed.
Oh thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster! This show is too good to not be on the air (which often tends to be a bad sign).
BTW, love how you managed a Buffy tie-in there with Charisma.

Thank you. "Subtlety" is my middle name. Or no actually it's Elizabeth. Close, though.

The next big news will be if they've got Michael Muhney and Tina Majorino as regulars. RavenU and other experts, do you think we'll find out this week?
I'm no expert, but I *think* that all regular cast members are at the Upronts. So since Tina and Michael are supposed to be regulars next season, if they get the deal done, it stands to reason that they oughta be there. And so we'll know.

I think.
Now I'm happy
Awesome. I'm just getting into this show, but I already love it. :)

Yeah, that's the noise I made...wanna fight about it? This is one of the best shows eva (that Joss didn't create)

and furthermore, woohoo.

(That being said, I'm gonna be SO angry - like angry enough to hurl a midget - if the season gets cut down to 13 episodes.)
That's some pretty heavy anger. (Which I'll share).
But it seems a pretty solid connection. In the swirling mess that was my brain immediately after the Season 2 finale, one of the first coherent thoughts was "Wait this means CC has to be back at least a little more." (and yes after all the time I've spent trolling various boards, I really do think of actors, shows and episode titles as bunches of letters.)And honestly, those last couple of scenes she was in, I don't know if she's ever looked prettier.
Now I can finally breathe again. Yay!
Outstanding news. I've been a bit worried CW would past over the show due to the lackluster ratings. Looking forward to season three.
I was gonna be livid if they didn't renew VM. I am way too invested (i.e., verbally abusing my telly at every plot twist) in it to NOT find out what was in Kendall/Charisma's briefcase. I'm really pulling for Mac/Tina to be a series regular. She's so Willow, and every television show needs a little Willow now and again. Does anybody else feel the Veronica/Wallace/Mac--Buffy/Xander/Willow connection? Two really is the magic number when it comes to faithful and loveable sidekicks.
It seems a solid connection to me too. CC's character was all over that plot and probably has some of the most unresolved questions of any of the characters. It seemed to me they were setting her up to play a major part next season. She has, after all had her fingers in everybody's business. (Minds out of the gutter, I said "business.") ;-)

If AH has time and they have the budget they could, of course bring her character back too, especially considering what happened to her father...

Yes, this is good news.
potential, I'm right there with you. I also felt that Jackie was Cordelia, but I guess it's time for her to go to L.A., I mean, New York.
It was actually reported on another subject heading but for the sake of my sanity, this thread will stay up.

It's nice the show got renewed but I have extreme doubts that it will be a rating success for The CW (unless the network is prepared to promote it heavily). So I wouldn't be suprised if it only lasts 13 episodes.
*doing dance of joy*
Is it me or are there spoilery type comments without any warning or invisi-text? I stopped reading after a few posts. Might be nice to include for those who haven't seen Season 2 yet.
The renewal is good, but Rob Thomas told TV Guide that Charisma is NOT going to be a regular next season. So yes Kendall's briefcase will launch at least one plotline, I'm not so sure about Ms. Carpenter staying there for long.

But hey, that could be mis-direction or a salary negotiating tool, I don't know enough to guess what was behind MR. T's comment about CC.
danregal, the site's spoiler policy is only to indicate things which haven't yet aired on US TV.

Simon, whilst not wanting to be a downer, I certainly suggest they do a Minear and plan an initial 13 episode arc.
This is fantastic news! Lessens my VM Summer Withdrawal symptoms, too.
I sent Dawn Ostroff a "thank you" email just as I did last year when she renewed VM for a second season. Figure it can't hurt to thank TPTB when they listen to our pleadings and do as we've begged.
LOL :)

Ok. It's only Tuesday, but it does make the rest of the week look sunny (even if we are due for torrential rainstorms).
Rob was already planning 3 mystery arcs of 7-7-8.
I'm guessing that becomes 6-7-9 now.
danregal, the site's spoiler policy is only to indicate things which haven't yet aired on US TV.

gossi, which is why I said it might be nice, not that it must be done.
We have to find all the Neilsen homes and rig their TVs so the can only tune in to VM.
Yes! Very good news! Now maybe a little off-topic, but does anyone know if Supernatural has been renewed yet? I also love that show.
True words, Simon. I'm actually wondering how long CW will last. Should be an interesting television season this year, yes?

To be honest, I only tuned into VM this year when I heard of the Aly/Charisma cat fight. Hey, I'm a breathing man! Grrr!

Back to point, I fear VM is on the chopping block. As Simon mentioned, I'm thinking CW will aprove/buy 6-to-13 episodes and group it with another show such as 'The Gilmore Girls'. If the ratings of VM do not pick up....yeah, you guessed it. The network will start to toss the show around into every time slot no one watches, then it will disappear. This really is a shame because Rob Thomas has poured his heart into this series and he has much more to say. Kinda' reminds me of another writer.
I'm thrilled that it's been picked up but am concerned about the 13 episode possibility. I hope the ratings pick up as I LOVE me some Veronica Mars.
Didn't the Duncan/Wiedman exchange in the season finale pretty much sum everything up?

Duncan: CW?
Clarence: It's a done deal.

Hokey, but awesome...
What's with all (okay, some of) the depressing?

To me, Veronica Mars has been extremely blessed. It's already lasted a full season and a half more than is typical for the majority of new shows, and that's something to be grateful for.

I think it really has the potential to succeed given the right support (which I believe it'll have). And if they didn't really want it, I don't think they'd pay for what they've already committed to (they're not, you know, that OTHER network). Plus, given the new structure RT is employing, new viewers will be able to jump right in, which is smart. Gilmore Girls is on its last legs, and Veronica Mars is still fresh, and I get the feeling they WANT it to be big for them down the line.

People I've talked to about it don't even know it exists right now. But come September, when their WB-watching eyes tune in for their show, they'll hear about Veronica Mars. And they'll watch.

But that said, if they don't, and if it isn't big ratings-wise, I'll understand if the CW lets it go. Television is about profits. Besides, we'll have gotten more than two and a half seasons of great show that won't leave us dangling, which is more than most can say.

Still, I won't think that way.

I agree though that Rob Thomas really loves his baby, and I'm sure he's feeling the pressure to make sure it stays afloat. I don't envy him, but I do look forward to what he'll produce.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-05-17 01:21 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-05-17 01:24 ]
Fantastic news!
Given that this show will not have season-long arcs anymore, I think Charisma's mystery may be solved in the first 8 eps of next season, not enough to grant her a regular status.
I know the ratings run the shows--but, they shouldn't. TV is about money, yes. Quality of entertainment so often flies out the window these days, however.

Having worked in local TV promotions, I can tell you that the ratings system is screwy and weird and really makes not much sense. It is long due for an overhaul--especially with the way in which TV has been headed lately. Online cross-promotion, DVR useage, downloads, DVD sales. There's more to it than who is watching at the moment it hits air.

Much happy dancing in my household due to the news. I'm not sure if I can handle another TV addiction being yanked out from under me.

For now, I'll be happy. More Veronica. *nods* Yes.
Come on, this is good news, no need to bring it down! Every show's future is uncertain (well, unless it has "Idol" or "CSI" in its name). VM is guaranteed 13-22 more episodes today than it was yesterday. I'm gonna drink to that. Congratulations to Rob Thomas, Kristen Bell, Diane Ruggiero, Charisma... everyone who works on the show.

BTW, even if Charisma doesn't become a regular, it doesn't mean she'll go away. She was not a regular all season, but she was in it throughout.
Yes, yes, yes! Yay!!

Now we get to find out what CC had in the briefcase!
I was optimistic that we'd at least get one more season of VM. The cliffhanger demands that Charisma be around at least for a few eps. So that's good. Doubt we'll see Trina but it would be great if we did (Did you guys notice Charisma and Aly weren't on set together in that one scene this season? Interesting, huh?).

And of course we all want to see everybody's favorite jerky car-rental place manager.

I'm also a big fan of Cliff, Neptune's handy Public Defender. More of him would be awesome. He really adds some color to the show.

But I am worried about this 13 eps deal. I'm thinking telling Rob Thomas ahead of time means they're of a mindset to yank it even if the ratings are a little off from what they want.

On the bright side, it'll get more exposure on the new Crack Whore network, so there's a good chance ratings will improve.

Anyway, I'm glad.
OK, let me take this time to rant. Season 2 of Veronica Mars was a huge bust.

I've noticed something that's commonly present in TV dramas that I call the season 2 syndrome. It's not present in all shows, both Buffy and Angel improved in season 2 obviously while shows like Lost, Battlestar Galactica and X-Files stay more or less on level. But it's common. It's when the first season is really great but almost immediately when season 2 starts something happens. Shows like Dark Angel, Dawson's Creek, The O.C., Roswell and Dead Like Me all abruptly had a drop in quality as soon as season 2 started. This was especially in Roswell, where as season 1 is among my favorite seasons of TV ever, season 2 plummeted into a firey pit of doom qualitywise. Season 3 however redeemed the show, atleast to a degree. My theory is that either showrunners don't expect to get renewed and thus haven't really planned anything for season 2 which means that things get a little bit stressful for them and the quality of the show is there after. By season 3 they have learnt to plan ahead better and therefore the quality is higher. The other option is that after one season the studios feel that they should have more say in the dealing of the show, getting more hands on concerning the whole process and thus effectively screwing it up (as networks are prone to do).

So what does this have to do with Veronica Mars? Well, Season 1 is if not the best season of television I've ever seen it's undoubtedly in the top 5. Season 2 however was not. Let me give you a few examples:
* The cases took up too much space in the episodes. It almost seemed to turn into a procedural at times which is not good. I'm sure that the network has other ideas, but this show is a bout the characters involved. If they're not emotionally involved in the episode I'm not either.
* The lack of direct episodic continuity was at times really bad. Sometimes this was even going on within an episodes run. Veronica could be screaming and crying her eyes out like there no tomorrow and the next scene she'd be the quippy gal we all know and love. Sure, she usually bounce right back whatever happens but once something manages to penetrate her emotional defences and really shakes her up, our girl tends to stay shaken.
* They went way too episodic this year. Sure, in season 1 there was always a new case for Veronica to figure out but it was always balanced with a more personal arc. In season 2 however several episodes was virtually completely void of any such parts.
* OK, I can accept one season of no one growing and changing, but compare the Veronica of the pilot and the Veronica of Not Pictured and you'll find the exact same Veronica. Nothing has happened, she has not evolved or change. I mean ,there has been some rather traumatic events going on in the past 2 years and apparently that hasn't changed her a bit. Nor anyone else for that matter, everyone in the show is the exact same person as they where when they first appeared. Exception to this is Jackie and Beaver, but that's because both of them were big fat liars.
* I love contuinity and thus also returning characters, but what I don't like is returning characters that just appear for no apparent reason and that has no relevance or logic behind it. I must admit that the taser scene is among the best scenes I've ever seen but the episode with Troy was completely pointless. What was the reason to bring him back, what purpose did that serve. In fact, that would have made much more sense in the beginning of season 3 and bringing him back as a regular or recurring.
* The seasonal arc was at times confusing, at other times irrelevant, sometimes nonsensical or quite simply downright pointless. For the longest time the good people over at couldn't even compile a list of the seasonal mysteries because no one actually knew how the hell this fit together and I can't check if they eventually figured out a way since the site seems to be rather down at the moment.
* So the Manning's are a bunch of rampaging psychotic child abusing psychoparents that locks up their children in the walls and no one does anything about it? Not even Veronica. If I were her I'd be shivering every single time I heard their names.
* The perfect example of the opposite of Restless. If you don't know how to make a dream episode that works then DO NOT DO IT!
* Not sure how they figured that Veronica and Logan especially would be happy with Aaron being killed in the end. Sure, that's sweet and all but it also means that in the eyes of the public the man who killed Lilly was an innocent man that unjustly framed by his own son and her girlfriend and that was killed by someone unable to accept his innocence. They turned the arse into a freaking martyr. And to boot, everything now points towards Duncan. If this doesn't end up effecting our powergirl in the long run I'm gonna get pissed.
* The fanwanking of the season was almost embarrassing. This is almost ironic considering my last point but it's true. People didn't like Duncan, he left. People didn't like Jackie, she left. People wanted Logan and Veronica to get together again, they got together again.
* They killed off Meg without there being any point to it what so ever. And this is not like Tara fans screaming over her death, cause there was plenty of point there. No Meg was killed off without it having any consequences, no one even seemed to grieve about it. Sure she's just a fictional character, but I would still argue that it was disrespectful of both the character and the fans of the character. I don't think I'll ever be able to fully forgive this.

I could go on but I need to sleep, 5AM here so I'll stop here. As final words I'd like to say that despite all this, it's still among the best things on television, I think it's wonderful that it's getting another season, I still haven't given up on it and I'm still trusting that they can get out of this slump.

[ edited by Djungelurban on 2006-05-17 05:20 ]

[ edited by Pastor Of Muppets on 2006-08-13 08:15 ]
To balance Djungelurban POV, I myself thought Season 2 was actually better than Season 1 in some ways. And I loved the finale.

I'm sure there are some who agree with me.
Pastor of Muppets, Rob Thomas said she won't be a regular, not that she won't be back, and I was aware of it. I didn't write that she'd be "starring" in season 3, my title was edited.
For those of y'all who were wondering about Tina Majorino, I read an interview with Rob Thomas (sorry, I've forgotten where) that quoted him saying something along the lines of that they love her in the show and if she isn't back as a regular next season, it's for budget-related reasons, not lack of interest. So here's hoping the budget is sufficient! Besides just liking the character, I'm really curious to see how the writers handle her recovery from what happened in the season 2 finale.
I agree with NickSeng, I think Season 2 was far and away a better season. The ongoing mystery arc might have been convoluted but there was a more-than-reasonable pay-off. Whereas the central mystery of Season 1 was just strung out because there was only one answer - who killed Lily? This year there was a complex series of events to untangle - the bus crash and the aftermath. Also, the mysteries of the week were generally of higher quality than the equivalent in year one.

To be honest, though, the show is not one of my absolute favourites. It's not one I sit to riveted, nor worry too much about plot and character motivation... though happily, reassessing the motives (and actions) of this year's killer proved far more interesting than the resolution to "Who Killed Lily?" which was simply plucked from the air.

I'm glad the show has been renewed, though. And am looking forward to shorter, tighter arc mysteries.
Firts post here! =0)

As stated above Rob Thomas confirmed that Charisma won't be a series regular, but it's pretty clear from the finale she'll be back.

As for Michael Muhney and Tina Majorino, Michael posted in the Lamb-centric community on livejournal confirming that they're now regulars. Congrats to them!

And lastly someone asked about Supernatural. The sidebar of this USA Today article seems to indicate the CW has renewed it as well. The article also says Allyson's "How I Met Your Mother" is also renewed for a second season at CBS.
Woohoo, nice to hear confirmation of Lamb and Mac becoming regulars. Now we just need more Vinnie Van Lowe! =)
I've changed the subject line to " It may have Charisma Carpenter appearing in season 3". Apologies for any confusion caused by my editing, it wasn't anything to do with dreamlogic.

Smallville got renewed as well as Supernatural according to Variety.
Great news about Michael Muhney and Tina Majorino. Great first post and link GBluPhEoNiX22. I will always have to copy and paste your nickname. Are nicknames password-style what all the cool kids are doing these days? I wouldn't know.
Giant woo-hoo and relief about VM renewal, and giant woo-hoo about CC, Tina Majorino and Michael Muhney! OK, Mr. Thomas, now it's up to you to let the new audience see the magic from S1 and most (but not all eps, to be honest) of S2. I'm so there, no doubt. Yay VM! :-)
Glad about more Mac and Lamb, but I have to agree with Djungelurban about this season of VM - but for different reasons. My main problem was that Veronica herself had no arc this year, no motivations or anything and that her only purpose seemed to be to link the rest of the cast together as they all pursued their own interests.

Aside from that I enjoyed the MotW more this year than last and had no problems with the revelations in the finale.
Good point about her lack of motivations Jackal, I completely agree there aswell. I would probably have gotten around to that eventually in my little "rant" if it hadn't been so early in the morning for me and I hadn't been so very tired.
On the side of the MotW being better I have to say that I don't know. To me they are a means to an end and for the most part I don't care much about them. If what's happening isn't important to Veronica or one of the other characters we know and care about, then I have trouble caring aswell.
I have to come in on the side of this season being at least equal in quality, if not better, than s1. In a year where 24 was better than ever and BSG continued to rock, oh so hard, VM managed to cement it's place as my favourite show.
The reason I liked the MotW this season was because of the focus on the supporting cast and that they had the potential to have more of an impact on the ongoing story, like the Alyson Hannigan ep ending with Clemmons becoming the principal. In S1, they'd often end up having little impact plot wise but would show some insight into Veronica's character - so ideally S3 should be a cross between the two.

In an interview posted on the .org site, Rob Thomas mentioned he preferred plot driven stories and I think S2 was symptomatic of that but hopefully that will change.

Back to Veronica's motivation: an idea I had the other day would be for Veronica at the beginning of S2 to find it hard redefining herself in the wake of Aaron's arrest. In that scenario she'd have a reason to get knee deep in the bus crash mystery and if she's busy trying to search for motivation it would take the pressure off the writers. May not be the best idea but it beats the nothing we got.
yeah, it's good to have Veronica back, but I think a lot of us were fairly confident on that one. I just about cried over Everwood though. I can't believe CW dumped the higher rated Everwood for One Tree Hill. gah! But seriously looking forward to VM next season and this whole 3 big mysteries with 7-8 episode arcs they've planned.

[ edited by bravegal on 2006-05-17 17:24 ]
Wheee. More Veronica. This is good. This is very good. I've heard the loss-of-love regarding season 2 on this site, but quite frankly I thought S2 was as good as S1. Just different. And different is OK. I expect that S3 will undergo quite the overhaul. . .

Ok, words have failed. Too damn exciting. VM on the CrackWhore(tm)!
I don't really understand the ire over S2. I'd agree that overall, S1 held together better but I also think that's my preference for character-driven drama over plot. So, having Veronica so much more motivated and vulnerable-through-her-tough clothes was compelling TV (plus her short hair=hotter). When she spent much of this season showing, hey look how normal I am and nothing much gets to me and my argyle-clad boyfriend, that was less fun to watch. Plus there were admittedly some silly (*coma baby*) plot devices. But Charisma rocked, Mac is a dream and there was more of her, Lamb is hysterical, and I think Beaver was a great character and his development subtle (um, overall, over the course of the season) and well-handled. I thought the last few eps were really impressive, the LoVe tension really worked, the finale rocked, and I''m thrilled it's coming back. I like how Rob Thomas took a page from the Joss handbook and will totally mess with the fans and rip hearts out--but, as to fanwanking, it's kind of nice to *sometimes* have your fannish desires granted (in an LoVE kind of way) rather than trampled. Much as I love the pain of the Jossverse--I don't know that everyone always earns the right to be that mean, and *sometimes* what you want *and* need could be, well, similar. . . So in all, I don't get the bashing. Maybe the show's not perfect but just catching the writers/actors do/say things that are incredibly dirty but manage to get around the censors is *in itself* a kind of spectator sport of the kind I haven't enjoyed since, um, counting head tilts. Cmon, "Dirty Sanchez," anyone?
I'm with you, bunnykitty... how about "Can Dick and Beaver come out to play?"

"Let's see if we can find them."

Excellent news indeed!
As far as the censors, we also have bus crash victim's Betina's "I (heart) DICK" T-Shirt in Veronica's dream "I Am God" (technically the full text is "I (heart) DICK CASABLANCAS), and:

"What do you think of Dick?"
"Uh...[realizes] Oh, Casablancas I assume?"

I too felt that season two was underrated, and when I rewatched the first half of the season it had improved in retrospect. Veronica's desperate attempt to be normal is boring, yes, but that's part of the point; I have a feeling it's something where, as with Buffy's depression at parts of that series, the creators chose what makes sense for the characters over the entertainment value. (That said, when Duncan left and Veronica started to let herself be the V that we know and love, I enjoyed the show a lot more.) The coma baby plot with Meg was silly, and Duncan was a cipher up until his departure, with things like Duncan/Logan being dropped away. And I hope that we get a better resolution to the Kendall/Fitzpatricks storyline next year. That said, the show upped the stakes this year in many ways, giving a greater emphasis to its supporting players. Weevil got his own story with many great highlights, the epic pas a deux that is LoVe ended up more heartbreaking than I had thought it would have, and the way little storylines were allowed to breathe over time, to be paid off at a later time--I'm thinking specifically of Cassidy-related things which paid off in the finale, but there are other examples, like the subtlety with which Aaron's organizing the framing of Duncan was set up--is fantastic. I think this season has been flawed, partly due to budget constraints (inability to get cast members in all episodes did hurt things quite a bit), partly because its ambitions in taking on so many disparate plotlines may have been a bit too large--but overall I found it almost equal to the standard set by season one.

Onward to season three! (With more Lamb and especially Mac!)

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