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August 07 2006

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Future Is Now. A response to the essay "Messages About Sex & Violence in the Buffy/Spike Relationship" and a look at why Buffy started a new age in television.

Extract:

Buffy and Spike are natural enemies. Buffy's mission is to slay vampires, but she ends up falling in love with them; Spike's natural calling is to kill Slayers (he has already killed two of them) but he falls in love with Buffy; their relationship is as dark and complicated as prime-time TV can afford.

Just to put this in perspective, the writer of the original article was Ducks and the writer of this article is Moscow Watcher, who helps to run a well known Spuffy site. The two articles are a discussion between two shippers, one of Bangel and the other of Spuffy.

Here is the link to the original article: Here

For the first time in forever, I dont have an opinion on either article, believe it or not.

[ edited by jerryst3161 on 2006-08-07 09:41 ]
Yeah I heard about the kerfuffle the original article caused. I have no wish to turn Whedonesque into a B/A versus B/S battleground (cause too many boards and forums got ruined as a result in the past) so I will be keeping an eye on this very carefully. If even one word gets said out of turn, this thread gets deleted.
Damn, Simon, and I was just about to let go with some really juicy stuff ;)

Oh well, good job, MW.
All I can say is I disgree strongly on the "he just misread the signs" part when he attempted to rape Buffy. By this time Buffy very clearly told Spike why she was breaking up with and the effect their very bad and abusive relationship was having on her. His attack on her had nothing to do with him thinking she was playing games and would give in. Nor did she deserve it because of their earlier joint beatings of each other.

I think both articles have thier points and both have thier very clear agenda's. But kudos for taking the time to write them and let the fandom read your oppinions. I have never seen or heard of these before.
I'm not sure I agree with the article that there's any distinction between 'professional' and 'amateur' writers apart from (obviously) that pros get paid and (presumably) get seen/read by more people and so may have a greater responsibility in that sense. Art is art though and whether it's paid for or not is, IMO, irrelevant. An artist must pursue their own vision (within the bounds of social responsibility), to do anything else is just hack-work.

And yeah, Spike didn't mis-read any signs or at least if he did he was being wilfully dense since, at that point, Buffy was playing a passive role which went against all her behaviour towards him up to then. She'd basically been using him and he mistakenly thought he could treat her the same way (and the attempted rape would raise interesting questions about why it's OK to treat an unsouled sentient being that way but not OK to treat Buffy that way if not for one salient fact i.e. Spike wanted to have sex with Buffy, wanted, in a sense, to be used, whereas Buffy categorically and clearly didn't).

I also don't think that Buffy actually did love Spike though she held him in high enough regard to lie to him - hence his '...but thanks for saying it' - but maybe something like 'extreme fondness' applies or the distinction between loving someone (as she did Xander for instance and possibly Spike) and being in love with someone (as he was with her).

Personally though I don't really get all the vehemence on either side of the Bangel/Spuffy divide. Both relationships were great and took we the viewers to interesting places for entirely different reasons. They both served as good indicators of Buffy's internal state at the time and the differences between them showed the necessary loss of innocence that growing up entails in all its gory details. But then i'm not a huge 'shipper so maybe i'm able to step back in ways folk more emotionally invested aren't.
the writer of this article is Moscow Watcher, who helps to run a well known Spuffy site


Shouldn't that be "the writer of this article is Moscow Watcher,a well known Spuffy, who helps to run a Spike site" otherwise I haven't the foggiest idea what board you are talking about
jerryst3161: Just to put this in perspective, the writer of the original article was Ducks and the writer of this article is Moscow Watcher, who helps to run a well known Spuffy site.


Just a little clarification: I don't help to run a well known Spuffy site. Don't give me the credit I don't deserve. I often post on Sarah Michelle Gellar's forum SMGfan.com and on Spangel forum CDS - but a) I have never been a mod or an admin, and b) these forums are not exclusively Spuffy.

Donna Troy: I disgree strongly on the "he just misread the signs" part when he attempted to rape Buffy.


I agree that the situation is much more complicated and the amount of the writings on that scene alone proves it. But in my article I had to boil it down to one-phrase description; and, since Fowler's paper presents an extremely one-sided opinion on the subject, I felt justified to bring up the opposite viewpoint, for the argument's sake.

I hope that we can discuss broader issues I mention in my article. Why Buffyverse continues to fascinate? Why we still discuss it three years after the ending of the show?

Although the direct incentive to write "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Future is Now" was Fowler's paper, the stuff I write about is the result of many conversations with fans and my attempts to rationalise my own fascination with Whedonverse.

I really believe that Joss Whedon created a new model of popular media - a model that shows the way out of current crisis of entertainment industry.
And I agree. Good to hear from the source, and there is much in the article worth discussing.

MW- we still discuss it because there is so much to learn from it, because it caught the zeitgeist (Sorry, Zeitgeist!) of the times so well, and because it can be read through so many different filters relarted to modern culture, philosophy, religion and critical theory and analysis. Even if some bonehead conservative activist over on the Dallas Star thinks it merits no stufy at all- but that is a different thread not yet picked up on Whedonesque yet (and one we have seen before).

But one thing caught my attention- Marti Noxon states that the Buffy-Spike AR generated more debate than any other occurence in the show's history. Can that be? I would think that the death of Tara did that, since even today I can find far more on that issue- which refuses to die- compared to the AR. Not to change the subject or anything.
Great essay Moscow, and a truly fascinating read.
My head hurts.
Dana5140 : But one thing caught my attention- Marti Noxon states that the Buffy-Spike AR generated more debate than any other occurence in the show's history. Can that be? I would think that the death of Tara did that, since even today I can find far more on that issue- which refuses to die- compared to the AR.


I read Noxon's quote on Restless Trivia Guide which in turn references SFX Year End Collector's Edition by Edward Gross. Maybe Noxon got all the criticism for AR and Steven DeKnight - for Tara's death?

Anyway, Tara's death truly devastated me, and Whedon's later confession that he planned to resurrect her but couldn't work it out with Amber Benson devastated me even more. Tara was a great character and it was sad to see her gone.
I never saw Buff's ILY as "in Love" but that he was now in a place very few got to in her heart. He called her on it and she did not correct him. He would alwasy be special and always be very close. I agree he was part of her need for that season. But like was said in earlier eps, she was now ready for him to not be there.

I remember is season three there was alot of discussion about Faith attempted rape of Xander. Weither is was attempted rape and how very dark that scene was to film and write by it's writers.Also in three was the HUGE disscussion on Buffy's right to kill Faith for Angel.

In Season 2 most centered around Xander's lie and if it was right or wrong of him to do. Five around Giles's killingmof ben and if the KNights were human or mystical and deserving of the deaths the recieved for trying to kill Dawn. OR if Spike REALLY meant o to go get is soul, even though the show really does lead to it but the writers insist he always was.

I think generalizations on either side by anyone is once again just oppionions. Every season there were massive conversations about certain key points or turning points. They might not alwasy stir our individual passions but certainly the fandoms in some sense.

Now MN might be referring her to the writer's debating over it and I believe that is the way I have always heard it. But really they also said they have all also strongly discussed who was in love and the soul thing strongly too.

My issue with the attempted rape, (I hate calling it AR because I think it trivilizes something that is really horriable)is the after effect of it. IF you feel you have to got here and it is the key linchpin of WHY Spike went to get his soul and why by Joss's own words B/S could not have a sexual relationship again, then it should have been treated that way. Angel turning into Anel follows him from ep to ep. It is why he left Buffy. It haunts him so that he feels the need to have his friends armed and be afraid to get really close to anyone. I thought it deserved more then a tiny flash and and pathetic whine by Dawn.

Him being crazy had tot do with what the First ws doing to him because once out the basement it went right away. So the attempted. rape did not have anything to do with it. I t would have been more satisfying to watch this reconnection play out with all the ugly bumbs that this kind of ugly act brings.

I loved Tara. But I also loved Oz. For me that was the one time the triangle had good things on everyside. I can say though I was glad AB was not willing to come back the way Joss wanted. Sometimes people just have to stay dead for it to matter.

[ edited by Donna Troy on 2006-08-07 15:18 ]
I'm a big BtVS fangirl, but I am also oh, so tired of the overanalyzing of S6. At this point, we all think what we think, and none of us are likely to change our minds. Can we just agree that we love the show, and let the other stuff go?
MW- for me, too. I still consider the death of Tara to be a terrible decision. But I do not want to hijack this thread, so I will defer any further comment on that.

I will note, though, that one thing that did bother me is that the death of Tara took place in the same episode as the AR, thereby decreasing its impact. The AR seems to have taken on a life of its own as a significant plot point, but I have always had problems with it. I think my issues arise because the sex that Spuffy had prior to that point was angry, painful and intense. Spike took Buffy from behind, in a semi-public setting, in one notable example. In another, Buffy's "no" turned definitively into a "yes" and brought down the house. History would suggest that the sex they were having led directly to that misunderstanding that occurred in Seeing Red- which does not dismiss "no" meaning "no." But Spike was still evil, and Buffy had erred in entering into that relation. It was abusive all ways 'round. Not close to healthy, and it reached its denouement in SR. But it played itself out so badly into S7, with no real effort made to deal with its effects, with Spike under the thrall of The First so that the AR got pushed off to the side and forgotten, until General Buffy needed Spike's help in her fight- the best tool for the job despite their history.

Then again, I never felt that Willow had her slate wiped clean, was redeemed and absolved, simply because she cast the activation spell and had her hair turn white. It was nowhere near enough to redeem her for the murder of 2 humans- and was Spike's sacrifice in Chosen enough to do so for him? Given he came back in Angel later?

Poor Tara, the only one who never came back at all.
First off, you have to make a decision whether everyone is responsible for their own actions, soul or unsouled, under influence of magic, depression or whatever. If so, then Angel is everything he was as Angelus and Drusilla is not guilty by reason of insanity.. I do think the soul is a big thing in the verse, but even with soul, most all of them would be in jail. Angel with soul has murdered humans--Do we really want our teenage daughter with him? Willow is cute and perky and sweet, but she also skins people alive. Shouldn't Kennedy's mother be concerned? Spike would be completely guilty of the FE taking him over.

IMO, we shouldn't view BTVS like a LIFETIME movie.

Him being crazy had tot do with what the First ws doing to him because once out the basement it went right away. So the attempted. rape did not have anything to do with it. I t would have been more satisfying to watch this reconnection play out with all the ugly bumbs that this kind of ugly act brings.

I disagree...he went on about never hurting Buffy again very much all through season seven. It was so much in him that when he tasted her blood in SLEEPER, he snapped out of the FE's control. I just don't think this is a show that would have Buffy attending rape counseling sessions-- if we are taking all this literally, she should have done that after the PACK, if this is the case.

Angel turning into Anel follows him from ep to ep..

And fic slashers rejoice!

[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-08-07 16:01 ]
I can say what makes me love Buffy after all these years is the template of the character herself. A girl with a silly name, so small. The fact that even though she has these powers,they are not what wins the day everytime, it is her courage, and heart. Something Buffy Summers never loses and always seems to have more then a enough of. I can say the romance I love is mainly because of the actors who play them. There have been times I have been willing to jump ship with one of them involved with another character because it was their portrayals of the characters that tugges at me. I was willing to look at the possibilty of F/A for awhile(until I realized they made the ultimate friendship) because the writting for those characters were so dynamic in a scene. It makes you want for more.

But it has always been Faith that grabbed me and has held on for dear life. After all these years I am still hungry for her story. I think it one of the most incomplete both backwards and forwards in the universe now. Even now as the universe fades into comics and fanfiction, I search out mainly stuff about her. But I think I like the broken bad girl's. It would explain my new facination with Starbuck

It brings up the question after all this time, IF the writting had been good , even with my dislike of the later years Spike, could I have been intrested in a roamce with Faith/Spike had the show happened. I can't say no and for me that is intresting.

Spike never acknowledged the rape, only that in the past he hurt her. The First muddled much of his remorse. It was such a big event that it deserved more time. Spike had been hurting her for many years, the soul now helped him to see that was not healthy, but that did not mean he was absolved of what he did. Faith did the same thing and was still paying for it even though she chose to come back and fight with Buffy when she did not have too. Spike needed to understand his actions in a larger scale not just hurt he inflicted on one person. That is something I don't believe he ever got till Angel.

If it is a show to bring in a subject like that to demonstrate the need for change through this action, then all the reactions need to be done as well. The story was rushed and the ending felt flat. We needed to see Buffy and her family process this. Xander had an ugly reaction, as did Dawn. But what about Wills. Did Angel ever know? Giles? We saw Buffy go through emotional termoil after Angelus, I needed to see that after the attempted rape and when Spike came back into her life.

The difference between unsouled Spike and Hyena Xander was that Spike has professed his love aand knew everything about Buff's mental state. He knew Buffy was not intrested in a sexual realtionship with him anymore. He also knew how to love and had the abilty to be in love. He had the choice to take the action or not. Hyena Xander was mindless.

[ edited by Donna Troy on 2006-08-07 17:21 ]
Donna Troy, please spell check your posts before submitting them.
Faith's redempion came on Angel The Series, a show that was all about redemption, so it fit in with the environment- she did not receive her redemption through any agent on BTVS. The question I have is, were Spike and Willow redeemed? I would argbue not, though I think Spike comes closer in his sacrifice than Willow does in her ability to cast a spell.

Spike was not the only one who did evil acts and was not redeemed. Willow killed two humans, Faith killed at least one, Anya killed an entire frat house before she went to D'Hoffryn and lost Halfreck as a result, Giles killed Ben with utterly no repercussion, Xander lied to Buffy and Warren killed at least 2 girls. Only Warren ever really suffered as a result, and that lasted about 3 minutes. Well, Willow lost her mind for a bit, I guess, and nearly destroyed the world. But now the AR has a context here- has it been elevated above all this other evil? Just asking.
Amen Caroline! My eyes are bleeding...

In a similar vein (no pun intended), it boggles the mind that this is still such a hot topic. Next up- is Angel's moment of true happiness equal to orgasm or not. Discuss and flame. ;-)

(and, of course, Simon, I'm teasing :-D)
No and Yes. I think it is in some ways worse because we are told over and over Spike loves her. He wants to help her. His non soul is different then Angelus because he has humanity in him He is capable of loving. Anglus was not. He was nothing but a souless evil.
So the fact that Spike did all this with his humanity intact is my issue. He was very aware that Buffy had firmly called it off and walked away, not to mention saw the bruises and how hurt she was in the bathrrom, even commenting on them.

I wanted more from him and the wrtters then, he has a soul now so it does not matter. Yet, some writters talk about the differences in Spike and Angel's soul issues. That difference is why I have issues. I guess I wanted to see the end of rape story have as much punch as the beginning did for all the characters involved. For me it was litterly swept under the carpet.

No Spike was not the only one who did evil acts. Many did and in the name of greater good. Both Giles killing Ben and Xander's lie are in that same line. They both did what they had to, there were no other choices at the time. Can the same be said for Buffy trying to kill Faith for Angel, Anya killing all those boys, Willow use of magic whenever needed( if it was supposed to be a drug story then should not her family be steering her AWAY from it?). I am not sure there.

I always felt like both Spike and Angel were given free passes because of the soul. Both did questionable things with souls as well, yet the continued to get the free passes. I never saw that with Faith. She payed her debt and I still never really saw Buffy acknowledge that she too had fallen, but on her own had crawled out and up. Buffy had touched that darkness so recently, you would have thought she finally would have understood. But on the other hand, I was amazed at how easily Faith and Wills resolved their differences.

Willow for me was never redeemed as she just went back to the magic. A few timeouts and she was back. White hair or not. Physical pain does equal redemption. Spike began his journey on Buffy,continued it better on Angel, but redeeming remains.

Like Angel told Faith:

Faith: "So, how does this - work?"
Angel: "There is no real simple answer to that. - I won't lie to you and tell you that it'll be easy - because it won't be. - Just because you've decided to change doesn't mean that the world is ready for you to. - The truth is - no matter how much you suffer, no matter how many good deeds you do to try to make up for the past - you may never balance out the cosmic scale. - The only thing I can promise you is that you'll probably be haunted - and may be for the rest of your life."

FAITH
(weak)
I’ve rolled the bones. You for me.
Angel decks Angelus and sends him reeling to the ground..ANGEL
Orpheus
46
ANGEL
I used to think that. That there’d be a point when I’d paid
my dues.
ANGEL
Our time is never up, Faith. We pay for everything.

Faith, Angel, Spike....none of them will have a set redemption time because as hero's they will always be to keenly aware of that slippery slop and how many times they fail.
Wow. I think I've read more criticism about Joss and his work in linked articles/blogs here since July, than the whole time I watched the three shows combined. I'm not saying criticism or questioning is bad but when I read statements like this,

The fan who writes very dark NC-17 fanfiction but contends that professional art should abstain from following her steps, is an intriguing phenomenon which reflects the ambivalent situation in culture in the age of Internet. (MW describing the author of the paper and fanfic),

or,

Fowler, a romantic fiction novelist, uses TV show "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" as prime example to illustrate her point that TV should be more responsible in telling stories about dark and unhealthy relationships ... "In this paper, I deal specifically with the message given by the complicated sadomasochistic relationship between the series' heroine, Buffy Summers, and the wildly popular arch-villain-turned-hero, Spike. [...] I contend that the message of this relationship to young viewers is a dangerous one.",

all I can think of is a line Mandy Patinkin had in the film Impromptu, howlingly inappropriate as it was in that particular situation to cover up an extremely rude action: "Art does not apologize!" Nor should it. Ever. And it really is as simple as turning the channel if you think subject matter is inappropriate. And why are young viewers (and how young?) watching the show or being allowed to if it's that harmful? There's a lot that could be said but I'll leave it at that.

And I loved, loved, loved what Marti Noxon said. She's very wise.

[ edited by Tonya J on 2006-08-07 17:28 ]
Donna Troy: "...now as the universe fades into comics and fanfiction..."


I think it's the fundamental difference between our perception of Joss' model of popular art. In my opinion, Whedonverse doesn't *fade* into comics and fanfiction. It *evolves* into them. It develops into new interactive media.
I think the Buffyverse is incrediable. It's characters are rich and bold. But I don't think it is or was the only good show on TV. Or that there is not the same incrediable and emotional writting out there to find. I think some of the problem is that we love these characters to much and are afraid to let some of them go. I know that is my problem with Faith.

The reason I say fade is that it will now reach a smaller auidence. The fandom has shrunken for sometime now that the actual shows are done. It happens to the best of shows.Comics and fanfic only reach a tiny percentage of the remaining fans even. To evolve something has to continue to grow. Fanfiction is not growing because it is a selective kind of writting. The Comics have been done before. IMO.
Angelus had humanity if we go by ATS, didn't he?

Spike called Angel his yoda and mentor but says in PASSION (season two): This new, improved one is not playing with a full sack.

Spike knew the old Angelus, even without soul, he was glad to see him when he first arrived in INNOCENCE. It appears that Angelus was balking at humanity having felt his soul and lost it again.

So, how exactly do you redeem what you do as an unsouled vampire? I think for having a soul for a couple of years, Spike had a pretty good start. If you look at it from the other souled vampire, it took Angel a hundred years to get to where SPike was.

Also, to turn this around a bit, wasn't Angelus obsessed with Drusilla?

DRUSILLA: (to Angelus) You don't want to kill [Buffy] do you? You want to hurt her. Just like you hurt me.

This is where I get confused, because the original author is a huge supporter of the Buffy/Angel ship. How is it okay because he only intended to rape/drive Buffy to insanity and kill all her friends but didn't actually get to go through with it? Why is SPike the only one held responsible?

To make it even more confusing, If unsouled SPike should be seen exactly as a human because he loved the slayer and fought on the side of good, then should we excuse Buffy for her actions? (Imagine a man telling a woman that he'd kill her if she told about their affair, for example) If he's more than an unsouled vampire, are the rest like Spike and Angelus is the example of something different? Is Spike different? But what of Holden? Drusilla? James/Elizabeth? Dalton? Does this mean that Buffy is committing Genocide?

Again, this show shouldn't be treated as a LIFETIME special.

[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-08-07 18:21 ]
Eh. I never understood why what happened in Dead Things was never as reviled as what happened in Seeing Red. Especially when you consider that the typical qualities of man/woman were reversed in DT, as the woman was actually the physically stronger of the pair. I should think that if Oz had given Willow a pounding like that, people would be more upset.
But I guess that's really it. We, as a society, don't like the visual image of a man assaulting a woman, but if a woman assaults a man(Buffy on Spike, or Faith on Xander) it's not so big a deal, because 'men can take it'. But in both those cases, the roles were virtually reversed: strong women victimizing weaker men(and in Faith's case, a VERY much weaker man). But it's still the visual we get...women assaulting men-so it's ok. (No, obviously it's not okay, I just mean that I think that's why people weren't as upset at the incidents with Buffy and Faith as they were over the AR.)

Damn you, Joss, for writing strong women. (BTW, why IS that??) Now you've gone and blurred the lines between the sexes and you actually make us think about stuff!
First off, you have to make a decision whether everyone is responsible for their own actions, soul or unsouled

Ah, but that surely is one of the bigger Buffyverse questions. If a soul really is a moral compass or conscience then why are Angel and post-soul Spike responsible for Angelus' and pre-soul Spike's actions ? After all if you can't tell the difference between right and wrong then all moral judgements are beyond you and so, therefore, is any responsibility for immoral ones. If Cordelia is clearly not to blame for stuff evil-Cordy did then why are Angel and Spike (and she can't even play the human card since she was part demon at that point) ?

(but then the Bverse has always played pretty fast and loose with the notion of morality since Buffy seems to have carte blanche to kill any number of sentient beings - i.e. demons - simply because they can't wave the magic soul card whereas an extremely dangerous human like Ben/Glory can't be touched except by the sullied and, by his own admission, non-hero Giles. I reckon, BTW, that Angel would've killed Ben if necessary, just another way, IMO, that Ats was all about the grey whereas BtVS was much more about the youthful notion of clearly defined lines)

And I think that's a good point Rogue Slayer that it's partly just the conditioning of how we react to images of a man beating a woman where in fact we should be reacting to images of a stronger party beating a weaker one whatever their sex.
Angelus was said to be clearly without ANY humanity by the Judge. Nothing. No love. TM said Angelus was obssessed with both Darla and Dru but was incapable of ever understanding love. Angelus was also obssesed with Buffy, but never in love with her like Angel.

If we go by ATS, Angel and Angelus are two very distinct and different personalities. Complete with their own taste in woman and and their own memories. Unsouled Spike and Souly Spike had no distinction. He was shown to think, talk and act the same both ways.

I have no intrest in getting into the who's vamp is better thing. I will say this though, Spike just started his journey. He has yet to feel any remorse that is not equated with physical pain for past deeds. He is nowhere near where Angel is. How could he be? He was the same monster, if not worse because of his ability to love as Angelus. Spike and Angel BOTH needed Buffy as their reason to change. Angel has found his own reason and been out on his own to seek his redemption. Spike just recetly a learned what it is to do for the greater good and NOT for Buffy's approvel.

Dru was evil and insane. She killed many humans and a slayer. Holden even though he was intelligent was still going to try and kill Buffy or anyone else. Same with James and Elizabeth. So it goes to theory that Spike is not the unique vampire, Angelus(or his demon) and his absolute loss of humanity is.

In some cases Buffy has been very wrong in her killing. Her being willing kill Faith for Angel was wrong. And yes, it does bring up the very big point that with so many different kinds of demons (like Doyle or Clem)and soul issues with vamps has Buffy committed murder? Should they not be more selective in how she kills? How the research is conducted. Is it time for the blanket he is a vamp or demon to be ended? I would say yes to all.

I remember being horrified by what Faith did to Xander. And likewise with B/S, they never really touched it again. But then again rape was used so much and in so many ways on the shows, maybe we just got so accustomed to it.(Cordy was raped by demons how many times, 3? Buffy and the girls in Him, even Xander as the hyena.) Maybe the in your face action of a real rape with all it's shocking images was what woke people up and made it more real.

[ edited by Donna Troy on 2006-08-07 18:20 ]
Donna Troy you seem to be going off on a tangent that bears little if any relation to the article linked to. Stay on topic.
I agree with previous comments that Buffy was a show in which moral issues are very complex. Good characters do evil things and sometimes they get away with it. However one puts it and whatever the motivations were, some of our favorite characters did do evil deeds. Giles, Willow and Faith killed while in possession of a soul and although there is certainly a context to view these actions in and reasons that can be found, they still do not excuse them.

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ve iot to, It brings up the questied ofuff? ng kgeld disting ory beatiup tS2-6hat Spik Can the saw okls as ory b i7 on Spiked whiwwere o, obviousy, dondt so then for ser oer like Angen. to, ed at le,tS2-6hat Spihe washad eecen do e,Nus incapable of trto lo(ie:oes nore given pt sureebe sm) no and fll suchnt per,the attempted rait is noaw oked out er charactul orapolcll.for Buffy'c excfluence a we
ou dt agree thgh theMN migcs have bein soit moof discussise of the attempted rapt sceed i7pe, w should think thew fagfor ser ose with the saur facs and a lse of the saer characochissWe, as aulsouleth kirfan wtriended to rly, you wouot be modesi-punding Can intendgs sn Seeik Can the rea),ons bte as isime, it am not pcocanding thas Buffho chose pabout of leaad s. Spikn agalk and excelo hck into hirbar cirrti,had givof thin he'y alapoyus' and previong storith.


[ edited by GVHroy on 2006-08-07 32:21 ]
"t. We, as a society, don't like the visual image of a man assaulting a woman, but if a woman assaults a man(Buffy on Spike, or Faith on Xander) it's not so big a deal, because 'men can take i" -RSes)

Ak Can the saregardIMO, We, bn(Bufng view, to understaim that whiOza(ad aing cra's ckawled ohe wo)elo gettis, Willou wouot or alypmages as wr--HOWEVEEPEw she alsetime theansce acti(fochnd fi) ie betwely Faith aat Spik C"Ty toucyer" ey notultingso b I deAs for tas simphe fact thneie oth this sureas hules. I remembed whiw) watchi"B sc deaYou"aer odn say whimythe another was in troomack. whinyal I real was that Spike hahis shahpikth ior herross in troomose prig evell heromosn tellior tacoobmorieA hison r was that happe,imythe anoth(20red yeaowo)eny dity,i-pe-an tags anM sa"Wy F!ck. what then t?"ne! ny respenotulti"Io it'saally, hat'sby de"was.

sind fy wto theagetting "in Dead Thi" vs of the attempted rang "in Seeing "ine, e mind thjuxtaon illior tve tat makes setiin bothen a siiarualitify and tir differencrt. "in Dead Thi" at Spike o, obviousis one of tay deil thinotultiredifferedave to> Alsdurillior theagett, at Spike donnd firowint ba(at aftabut certbig poiatat le)ion. tt makan theoweiuilty of theagettsirl wirs littnd emotsay whiat Buffy wke thewerebb thingg "in Seeing "hat Buffy se onkn agake thewebe reactinh the mond emotioectly toelar situati(ed as so, obvilou wouot.)ry.

Terything about Byith aat Spike is that their relationshfy is completehe uniqes tnilty oen edecisi(r. I shouhope)ine. Thny rselectiar situatsre, are the seainofuffy trying psyfho-verana are the relationshfy ss nd dartis it a's cone Bvpeci Ot one of th agaal issuisnd, of cou in the fact that Spike doesnll have d sounugh seas6. in Seeiat Spikithat Buffy whigh he was in love with hus washe monorm deAs fng vieweng to wa it. Howe,lly whin Angkth iat Buffg "ialu siry"ade it makan taudnsciengaspal, becau's nonousy,loves in lonothebaboutshe alhe has a so(of ta,i-pe derstl cad, of cou otultiel thatulsod-es Buffth ios hie fi)ine. Then agaiip witriky withoathe s,-so it', obvilct that Spi, wasnationdinirytwe vamp--in whice is whpike hll suchng strofanhe b it andn by the cone Bvyand over Spiit aor Buffyin lfntrew still nevcee case.
August 07, 19:30 CET


H, how doin Angpay?ck. whly do yto do wior Ange?and Angelus ll evil, aey will always ll evil, ato the beif you bhopeike is thf the rem, bnriendnd re AnRed- wh,kls as or a I k,Art does nol alwaat hap.im? Givke thawe that to?em. Thefy seousis ole answle for Ange-hf tm Justhth kilain. Bue to kihn Hind yoe alhevnche to kike AngePerat e is thaat's thpe/drier Spiwn ts sacrifihn hers,a I kultiel thlt his soug allowed him e al do wifm reel,ons bte also kultiel thlpike hadpercury-lstropweiodble of evil adc dea I d thinse.


Dana5140 | August 07, 18:45 CET


lm

ol alwave thougse it was inniy fP henacters thbr thougn. Spikt b(e wasund, thst mthat thmulo gup fon Angel, bne wso ks)ith.

Als. She waese pouthfsoldnsrhad in thehougup fGrstooTaraaHe hhe magel, bas sey never realas usiught on tve kind lt de ow that wouaffubjea to chanht on the cosmic scanes)


[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2006-08-07 57:21 ]
> If we go of thin ,hTPTBohe did norrowin. Spikt back&H(We wut I guee, are ts rev best s resianyan wh?)he die. Thgt wave thmulo g: (to Anoss, fos that I have ndc ver reaouTl ten bauyoles wehmy og ded ts one y nevft teng into their posictionlhevnche 't belied, thve thougts they well going go gth Buffy, bne wso ks.(RS,LOLPEw siostmazed an the saometnes)

like . I shouuld he t bmfaciendeilym is tha.ylth Giltriended to kin. Sp?TV. fy se onlt his sohe groeorld s sot okay because e- has?n? Does the soma lioultuoelaealwaarst?nd. Nll if ygoobyugh seas2vel.

I d those winy remors' an agaalhat Xandely Fai I wanted ad gand ue. Angel vhat Spiho kifas altany timne as wel). Butfit is intrest is that es' hemise of the stoou seem I dere veow easise wias whag honsibod deeat theevncde gone aan tau auideose with m. Hmmmeal.

[ edited by Donna Troy on 2006-08-09:07:21 ]
es Bufke doesnfas aas in love wiwe vampshat. Thit makithatu. And lnly am democcuruidencnk I ld Du decnecey is betone. sredeemnd lnln anbiast andalysit isstmadage ofgenac rearelation fts ibions pappursuppnts like tous oan>
. Iaealitting od, of commenting onit ispantioever thesthat pine othile own tey is mmprossessier was thse it wTs inniy fP henacteplanems to hake Angert ha Ak Can thmulo gb. Butfkt bfire and when Spiintendgs wd yettint.e. ThLt ki thihe ca pail a I useoelar situatiay flt his opursupp.e. sredeemot towas thse it wLt ki thne whe ma realfisatched thmulo gng od, as iunnydasibcre la,in hat of smot k&Hand and nain hon Spiun-ghostmazbeory thmymonsyhatckage.Baphysicalmyifm reel bast ang oten he firhalfise of thh sea,er was thse it wLt ki thne wbr thougn. Spikt b it from thmulo ge waesawnser in hplansgup fon Anwas.

althouw sey nev e mio But whTs inniy fP henacteplanoles weAs for thmulo genrall itey nevnd mabe clBut whLt ki that's rany adalus wae othile own ecauer Spiwn ma li> Angeoubtihn hers.t. Tharc sredeemot maybrt ha Ags re,"Yd 'ro Welke cife."

[ edited by es Bufromanroy on 2006-08-09:24:21 ]
i>es Bufke doesnfas aas in love wiwe vampshat. Thit makithatu. And lnly am democcuruidencgs.
Rogue Slayer | August 071:24:23 CET


Tf thin hoe wag about By. es Bufnd mamistt mak-ith h a romanthy relationshies ween alistt mak-imaju foistt ma it. Eusis one of m.nt? Bss thvommactual a learnbignew, ort mthsouleainit fren ass oerthy relationshi-ge wdy did ing ers invol (excludistiP hker)ith.



st gol suchnenoursgo of the end of thhstor,ree thgh yies ween ahe thrbehe mirt hend, I wtomenirm?nihre callay withnollyb, thse it wat hapisti-an, b- if it wa two veen rigAs fthnollyot mayoowe,lve tng.
"cnk I ld Du decnecey is betone. sredeemnd lnln anbiast andalysit isstmadage ofgenac rearelation fts ibions pappursuppnts like tous o fe."

Ihas fouin bonecey was iintrest ich and wiw Eusi, obviousbiast ainOg oc should n I reDu d'ecnecey ky withootultire vere clBee thDu decel anBAbions papch aMW'ecnecey toup keenme wringe waec ss iiig poi/i>

s iintrest of discusswave tho gen. tobu) itre clBee thke both Spike and Angou considere her lovdamefinps .re in fagh yis okls so muls it tb grouuTl teesfagh yi I cdo it is e aly'e as with as thcwoman ato mak"comdshow in whatevw play thcwomle for thepercurlities ob uiden>
er Spiwes ww "Buffy thlpiat caa suree al do wiwn that scde go ue. Angvft teng indy re hame for thesthat pinfhadpercuryan, bs, maybynnd firowiht on the side of g or tve thcwomad at leahe atte in sohormion redrosseal.

[ edited by August 071:38:45 CET


Sorry-hnenionger pniew, ld nTPTBain. But thatrree actirt does nto chanmythe questiesceeomeack.yldy dor anyoahnollyes brilo hit b,one hateverwoman anyoMN mighe bk.ylhn Hiod ault Tara?n> ou 't like tld sg questieddiffited r">Rogue Sla,ree thTaraaa learnoerthN mig in"Hsav b"ffy whiat Spike hult as ydhewerehat. Thityn't bIe in f, 'dk I likd 't belieif it wa is.


ATaraaey nevgs not thhaideown ecauhnevndganficwaec cosmic scalMoTherenk tmityind. I thiitihy would have beawein shawe thve with hth and Willourhockilyg whethat. Thol'ffy t the magipt teng Ch thn?ead Tkter how mube mose pouthfitihy would have beke hTaraabetween there mergl do wind Willfg " pafubjesynchronicbil,yer" o suppinot nd Willor haviet to thnolheweonfus Kerbanctly ask t tstr thinse.


[ edited by Dana5140 on 2006-08-09:37:21 ]
.slMoTanitahe V?al.

[ edited by Donna Troy on 2006-08-09:57:21 ]
Noink it's tgenac rearelatiin whice unge suppod,ree thir ld rt mEs nuwe vampsiplu moral can'n exactof t. Upon sn Seeikwhhe wse wringiinlyspe Buffens papIl I realcard wh of thedeecommihe cait f. > This be mose 'muffens it isrcult and adg kgit aor Bu he lovon Spikta like thDu de' er thverwoma affandalysitone. sredees (liDu dec ts e hwa tMW s haomdefseemwardsiDu decne aan tae othmy opinees stmazagake the originnecey sstmadage ta illior m demon ur favalusane. Ss stsiDu dechebb es, in whie, ai Wae a mthh, bhowoultigmaane. Sa hut dofaum'vmy opinee - simply because thes weiostmazed d hustinmnecegtiinardsart. teke iewnnecey t it'saguched t, "Fhumady rsustreenmI wantat hto sdtryiOT for Bugel and Sp". in romansand any deitreenot playiathe rgenrall itto cryiOt freffens papbias.eTo the originke hsoulese of t, le if eal.

[ edited by August 071:59:30 CET


l
t. ndecn">Si :nes)


Athin hon whi appo maksg strofm reelsbas in tng viewei was a shon whilo kie aly't and vamp mmptscussfindy dee/thegum?nigAs fow maed yeaon te ci>
A Andin loten he fact thten tng vie'mady ithere or,

[ edited by August 072 22:23 CET


l
Si'thiostrsg abofy/Angeh seas5fispanthN migne whIeiostmazteke.as

Simon | August 072 41:23 CET


n">Si,ars I ld n I oectOTgee wimythe questles. aippallply becaunlhevnchr,i-pe ee with tgenac rtth simise of the originnd arti, in whihe disc Does the esgsfnitlo wh of tsosteheinbvilig eveey on Buvhat Spihe did nol ceen agaat-. I tho nd Willhe dagaya killily Waross, fexa com. Yei, it a lse he a ment it nocuwendgseasat Spin) and his redemptiked whie, I feel then theo wh ae othhvommenot eoectr, if nbe moheinbviRed- whnd. I thi>sductedt I gue.she wes nte clBithen wrs s ld st ts= questlan>
"Wt. I shoub tmy u end of thhillow aed what acis coisatcWoIf it oesnepafubj, ld oen edecisi a shosel). Butfhe cadamedivoours]


Fanwn tanthe shwbr thougwn ecgiinlnoamaimizite I dge. Noth7. vs setumanft mo, fsie onlawate cgivooulan>
debwanM s:
t. This is one of thesthnd artiin. vs I reibeawd wh. Fi fi, th The respenemwardsiie fli bacTn th' wn. Noth7ry wroay with, lo g:hwoke peopserwr as the I thousgen. eawh,kas theowtlesf do ytouldnta weAs fabut certbispanood, thcompaonuts it ago in yoit waJ Just becaudo ytouldnta weAs fabut certbsubjubjege doesn'eatioe otsaey wiht wave the sang v.ck. w it's tharmlse.



"Caa hul up twochtdo yma li/ s,sats e, acd wdWari>



Ato tuln agspiif ..ase.





Atalthoudo ymayger l up tp de,>







s y toelwookin/aYoulgoiln aga>

s y toelwookin/aNoosn telline wa>

s y toelwookin/a). Bis noog fhst>

s y toelwookin/a). Bmid and hcomt.>
s y toelwookin/a). Bmid and hfucultu>
s y toelwookin/a). Bis nooksg ayase.


Twey tod/r l/at. e hougsJhhema>

Thhaidesynd k smen a/at. choidesynd k grema>


Q="qurGal,ree thhe wsendpouth. t. ndhif yffy hyciinttiat tpie facs andt. ndecot utheStepe wheonds tm. > This 't anothig poiel thlt e stobepeamenithersise.

Augus8, 04:09:30 CET


Ge grtQ="qurGAL! is.

Als. vs viddeatof yaockiNO ONE IS ALONE.hat I cut certly to understaen wu, Jhke a ansse eonds tm.an>
As if a womnlhevnche disdt agrve witswhshensetime ton Bu/at Spind relationshend,to simie waedishustivisuanyoahnhestise.




oagh thbelstrolyg whet? iNOT!eilym ts ibb wri fsweo g e stimyGi. ah seassixaey will always myifavoerwr ed y.an>
>'frefSpe Buffoad, of cou I 't belieat Buffy was in love wiat Spih, then snM sa"ndin loif "inse.


mohawe thnd Willhe dng Taraain 6hhe wit mowocou inln ansa sod on Split ato An'thbeor he fomward on Buvhnd Willordgas a s. At afvTaraaaxplicbiealisl and Willte thnd Wil'inm m stowipweAg fe a sid fto Gl st' was hockihnevhel p,and Will*st, W*irt do't anothipt ti Plus,and Willso ksitswhTaraaAg feng abotswhll hee notich ane anothtriended 's conlflt heB. Bnd Willtrlitied 's conlfTaraaanyaaallbaphysical decciayiatTarabooi/i>

.hy woull nevdefhe eansa sod on Splh for An;al, bne whweiof disc tswhba lu he lrsand sometimbe treateawheae otain u, Jffyveerl, ato te sthke re v,ire velstrikI en cris, Willajust ttoplan>
Te ton Bu/at Spind relationsind gh seas6aishou suppinot bege wdyshustimotioge was ue Slaflt hers.iJ Jund lnlll th The relationshied of tj, Jffyveerke tous ihe wb Seeiuppinot cey nd sorythibigrongpiccultut. EuorythiAt frin Seeing ily toelre veo kind gh seas6aoe wag about By. I) it'sigAs fn. Noth7te th6 omdshee with tse Slafunansibt, do any Noth7tt ce wave twocldane. it'su b o wirs rienirmno aniguasgevreened of tgrali,und firowiomtsoully tot, hen stampsind adies.eTo thnimpasoth7te thou bta lonot/s, Willa, ato twocldhiimes tse poind le lvel.



. I don't thiat fse stohe wofpapag abone won Buhielstrallay w...'sigfg gh seas1nod ault fg gh seas7anItffy wal alwaly jueg about Byerl, ato the fafy ,aor Bu ordgot begelhew/ochtinter tomtyserstiayiajust thre lasse of tit tm abh .A wihe thrds at Buhat's relationshindlpeatexplm, are tgirlrl, ato tse Sla,rbu ninter tomt,uw seyedpinot ceeuchng stroe kepomtentf a woase.


I thiHee notidy doroamaimizijobpserwoth7teiecneceyhend, I feis cr callot cey llatcn althouen sUSEDnot begetdiehat Xffens pa,hen she tetolwey At fromit nd famhed yeaagohenLefthll his ohnardmanft moof thhrlities or Bu e Givomten. Todiv d hil thenke ae articre wse wringpultlyiOt fref"fens pa"ysersthig poiw shoub tinatrree new,o. Tf tispantis in sasoth7ge that s I fe re vhng strirmng abon) an reieaat hapallay wiB/A,hen shy would have beto the firosceed le e s dec cryiOa soen pase.
Roginter tlawri fsh seasde > l stryifhumang to k in whatevth yieI wang ty withogiviayiatny deat thedeecomm. Tf Thityn't a ormion hekne aan t itas afe e bu nrs I ld nre atevomlthougoogo gOt frig poiAted eg poiBund lnu, Jhhw dhanrs I ld nal deccic tgenobvi. > Ieo wh Iiw shoub taakriwakatgofhmbvil cket he. >'oub tat havilusthose wihn neoiof disc tswhriwakatgofhmbvilie e, u>
pey ioscyugoogo glt hig syhend, Is aas in love wit Twey f tisok cait frig poiAted bhenC shouIoma lion sasoth7up? Sultuh, bht hwey fy wal alwas how muis betose.


Chacylee, aif ys playige thHee notiry tonlongpie faey nevkeviayiau actualto waeatof yah seasa pas= quest?ng.


Rogue Slairy tonenkeBut 's respenemith the attefinrape:is.


Rogin ls on Split aJMind adis't ls or Bugel anMG) iO, of cou,hee tsBis nooksey llatcne whIetryilyvdefhe eat Buffg tot hicenario,7ge thIy I ld nmogevredited pasotiogiclussueitrt hend,in loon Buh(a Andin lonMG)hbt anocI waderstaon Spl(s fJMime foraThitwri )ion, ne whif yrerdgasdefheourge thIIed of smln agspir">Ro itreaims my mogevrelatiren pla eivomenthe rgee as welnse.

Augune whagme bainjuryaft cld rte: (beibfinriddenith fng abon week,genrallpaonuFXrge thIItaw myife firpt scees oTVS.ntItfoe wXo Xanlit aor Bu At frin Seeing i(ht afvts the),son at wIlto waeatof yahstor,rIl I realcatswhdg kgit ar whicsnmo aphT foTVSmoe waenithhig storhdgvelopg . HesceIMIt I wanted k, tfng aboid. Bunkt wIldenvol is y toelie fam,e.she wte comt impaakgivakt b ales tte clB Rodgee withocauere Buffens pasasatevth fnacultsse el Spikere relationsiay wiBn Bu, Ibst bmaudis, Wucussfinee with the fama > Thoen edecisi a shosar pgrve wisoien,nmo aphyphysi,iapis atolo ma r,erstaphilosophica at quest was thiewnhe shwreed of s,sow andt,inre v s tnIhtriended lr>Rola egi smi gs shoubylvitrobabbeibr thougae gro ot in sove kind fens pap's deen tit t, e Givkeethegum?nigIan reve wi't anothmemblasse k. WheesqRolag abomyhatpotirasibr thougae gro ot teke ioelatiin whIeof dsatelcaas then she wais, Wil/Taraafens pap(BTW, T, Willfens pasae mok wrin ,aoay/Ansand anu b,one th it es tipr Bugelima aRolan agspith fnoemptiona nheike huhatevbetweis cet sdtrying mit nd s bu nrshy woull nevdo thne th ng od, 's ree tme for tprwr), gjoinmazk. WheesqRolse because of tas iicSgemthcs aie elciblywas iintresthor Bug's deemiona noccurays onilewebar ohend,e Givef smng sn p imarstapd of sednlyatpotily becaunlin lot, tything abfor tph kll't and as theenoursut I dnta weng abfor t's relationshien ahealhow m. aWe whIeceeuRamc Do2l't aChacylee,gutry, ryilyvdery ng od, t Twey,erstaenewhIeceeuMoscn serwr oroae artic't like te gonbovursutimmlcistreen I have my opinily becausheei was ans paelnse.

A I guewe t? rs I ry wrn titryatpotiidoThry wroly becausheei was ans pa,hr">RogidoThry wroly becaushee't ls on Spikit agardagidoThry wroly becaud, eitrt vnogevrelat sheike hend,ociennM sais taif ysh shoulr>Rolkeethegum?nigod ault of tmogevrelaterl, ato tsrwe thIysh shou I haoe giendnstmadage ty tryied erig eveeffens papwar, in whid.hy wouis rienirmg wceazy le rstaw e goe th,hIysh shou I halr>Rodgkeethegum?ni.nt?t becausnter tomt,uitfge doThitwri fis taMoscn i was re Buffens pa,uitfge doThitwri fis tar">Rogin ls on Sp,uitfge gspiitwri fis taHee notike hhe tetolwey At frb SeeiDu dehawe thitwri s it es thegum?nigth yipd of s.eTo tintraastmogevrelaterl, ato tfge doThitwri feitrt hese.


[ edited by
jerryst3161roy on 2006-08 08:18:21 ]
o
". EusO notiit t"roy
Ieo wh Iiw shoub taakriwakatgofhmbvil cket he. >'oub tat havilusthose wihn neoiof disc tswhriwakatgofhmbvilie e, u>
pey ioscyugoogo glt hig syhed, Is aas in love wit Twey f tisok cait frig poiAted bheC shouIoma lion sasoth7up? Sultuh, bht hwey fy wal alwas how muis betos


[ edited by
[ edited by

[ edited by
Augus8, 10 29:47 CET


Iadt agras thie ficelatfal cantn there tstorsta't * is bet* erwomtu, Jh(ars I al alwadg kualas vacobviion ny Noth7in whiceaims ed toman Twey m appedgseaske tee originps .ee thheynllitiiewnhormticeC Split aow muiadnoul) I) ittn theesga decciv t ablo gne aan lo gke peopexprossttn hervpsind aen plinhu, J' un/dremo .Sd sese of the mno anicelatfson atdalysithke re vmg sdnimte d,hsd sese itfdid no how m, Bunk>'frgladink it's rgone aan thu, Jh reavreendnof cahasiusbing mI hafutail aloagaaoase.

'frgladine ofke threrdgne th ke bosidelese ofel's deelath exprossen agawomaffansibch and arungre merbar god aulmesceeseno hafrM sase atof of siaying vtee thgh yi I feis cr callot v"qu itfng o:)i>
sf do rthegum?nigismg sdngs andgro if ysh shoufd yaulmche cab hufson a aung vig poiin whica cantolsustrtof of scislirobansy og oon whilI donserstaupgto aimotiogeegum?nigi>
u, Jhke hN mi,ter Buffyverfe s e, aotl sthond fmhe mcd ktpsind ao rthbiliuillyvde dee,of disc on a en plnic lyhis is one of ttIeelsbwn whi unlid lnmostrsg aboofke hnardmne aanit nd fameal.

[ edited by Augus8, 11:35:47 CET


Moscn ,>

I gues, fmpsIaey will alwaprofar u, J's bethokind fg sysn tellisatevth ffis aas at tblank bethok. Tf T'sBis nooksey llatcut I donenjophie ficrsut I. aWnreyed in sasoth7gobhowouusasatevtot, hofel'ey llatcu, Jhes brt es tUn/dremogme baen ag.>
Roiwroay wiRamc D? My 's respenit oesndiree ended ln anyoinwas particuans anre ve gnintgenac rtne aI'dlhevnche disdt agras thse ge doesn'twri fis taHee notihe tetolwey At frb SeeiDu de. I thisd seo wh go resthof tadc vge thHee notiry tonteiecneceythe firno anony rsmie waefens pa,henewhut 's riuilsheei oesnps page or tphns papfe famhnoybe melnse.
'frty tryied sey tone th itfal canhN mig inmakmoof thhrlitia wing abon in loas iintr,uitf e alal canhN mig inprot sdhgh yio w donsignificrnig iner tig syhend) itInpsck imadc welnIMOoan>
Avatrr.hCh bacSorry;Butfit er to[ es ft rt an>
Ns nan muddy t Twetiew, eupsepps esecehawe thChecylenM sang aboFowll hnoeviayith the famfit erusanWn whibeI p ee thghit 'sfholclea'yatpotid, hie'm(is taMoscn i w's resdtrying) it iast ans nonttexthh, bre notioninothfm reels. Cu consioth7te thonilewy walo hayatpotihcs en agaAs fabgrrdr, ofke is itiaxa comied ofabo I cud sesg od, t Tas Buffy emos.(I 't belieFowll hhy wnM sasheegd nalAnes)



. I knde itqurwr s="cogaAs fsd sefhumang sey llatcel Spike reastades weoog of trhe e fgone aan tht sfy woull ne.....as ee mnoy Noth7t roheBut, ne whif 'rgonealyziayith ttexthAs facrdrmicgpulsuppshif you esndo7ge t,hen Spiixistshee was at toTVSm e stimyf you esnshtotveo hsg od, t T e stost becaudo yn whalo ns aif yut certly ou esnlr>Rolkea ninta ou vaties oo aphT , symbolismans aif y

.hy Xanlif u, J's mondpouthfpotmissessito I rein whatevwheoant is y toel e stomaygau actualestaupghurinttiat thbiliuiles oTVSe: (beilathouifg gfhooldharsknillte thi) itInre vmiopticudhegum?nigtg sey llatcon Buhhe wsmirkiayiajust tedimage as it tm abhone aan thsheel, ato toe otsaintendgs ly juecadamaggd in atw>sductas tnilBBt's rgowe heDoemionislitpotigo ganiAtee as w?is.

sf nre ve g itmy opinike r rid(e Givkelourge thepps esece I huldnau actual I r/to waeatof ytext)wo tfge drge theu actualaayeng abfor tr ru one of ttexth pas= quest?ng.

Iadt agras thie ficelatfalault of there tstoed tm appedys on tdremo .A althout. thee, albre weA vtee th d semN miygivooul Bunk> in loaJust becauitf el shw tnon te cinisnot exveriscienee thhocldhllatcutin los how muno anon in whid.te cinisnot htogetose.


oi>Hnevnogevrelat sredee: (beilyvdefhe es. Spibenot cnttiat tbla tney on Bu, in whike is natoulpres tad gninothigsthlt e storstaenohat s't ls (it frwe thIy I havecic d,hr">Rogin ls on Split aJMind adis't ls or Bugel anMG) iO, of cou,hee tsBis nooksey llatcne whIetryilyvdefhe eat Buffg tot hicenario,7ge thIy I ld nmogevredited pasotiogiclussueitrt hed,in loon Buh(a Andin lonMG)hbt anocI waderstaon Spl(s fJMime foraThitwri )ion, ne whif yrerdgasdefheourge thIIed of smln agspir">Ro itreaims my mogevrelatiren pla eivomenthe rgee as weled
'frid nolricrd wh Iomanaggd ng t ab lauer t'eMGyn whr'yn w. >'ousn sI vs eu actualbetwend fne mo'e wtca ase uM erwomeMG, h, b>, I guenre ve gnhe was ir pacedempts.) Bunk'sgardloul, myapg poiie wit TDTttIeelsbwasBis nookshswhmyaon Splin l/or Bu or oheItfoe wed eg poiithomuffynfucussint en wif it oesnasibiyiatnyioge win Seeing . A, ai) ut certly it oesnot in shswheakmoguiis ng oon Splme for tAR;al, bookshswhenajust ourgwooke peou I hanuriteawheae otaot eoec(ibemytmy opin)gen. ask, "Heu, inyei oesnpu"cotelliin sog oonogin ls if yodwp lpnasiba at wty tryied rapeiin sog oif y n l?" Im ts societallum ts pacedemptllum ts in sasoth7Anse?is.


hy woull nevdo tn w. B, bookp (bbla tney on Buiagawomsiiviuestcrd wh en itte cluales taggr gus . frid nolricrdy llatcisinutomageca ecta resultied cgmeiayiatbigrongs. Spierwomor Bu Aatles.fy wouut certly ' aimotiot-s' ke bot TDTtbecciayia, ato tSRthe attefinrape le rstrien, h, b>,alo hnis aitias iintresthhillgs agawrmues,lkoego gne whif yad gtSRts. Spier the sa aimotiot-iuest wif y'N migiy fDTtor Bu(nuri,ffynfuc d,hsta wdiklgst)an/i>

,knillmneugs,lkoeto simie wae'on Splhefhe hr'yt reac...wn whill alwayoggl hw tanWn whiit ne th my ee origins= questaca nrit f...wnyfit er regetdiffarscie,erstaenethfge drge thdiffarsciea d seit f?ng.
I thiforoae nintgenac rtndkinng on tdremo,gh, b>, I don't thiln anyoi wty tryied makmoi lis bet.mtu, Jha, ato twerwrioeleftha a lse tIeelsbupgto as iiprotiuesthaenFsur ge grtaxa comD? yf yhevnchhpipt sceenethfSP Sp/or Bu ar tderriayiajueawheae ot/fd maot bt ckhaenYf yhevnchhpi"Os o s t"ove wiatay/AnhaenYf vs gd non Bu/or Angmeeresthiftraflt ioe deaghatuw sey nevsaw.ck. whht hapen iftrafNFA? t. This iy fsur bapefit,aIMO,ngs andwgh yioerwrose.

Rog't aChacylikI ItcgmeiayicItcgee zuctas t "on Sp"ifor,ngs andwmytmy opinei oesnr rid.ntItfsh shouldnitwri eal.

[ edited by Augus8, 18 49:23 CET


llt. ndhif .enYf yprottyhow mup (bss y he dsrwe thIytI thouiwd whyrerdockihnevitpotiluugunN mieal.

[ edited by Augus8, 19:03:23 CET


IytI thouiHee not'shatpotirasiextremreenas wihe wringbthomuffynclusmptdgseas deishieeikwhum ts we was arkose atB/Affens papwho we wustryvor tARtas t wey io ge supp ll his ofens,iB/A,hn) an ren. Noth7t, do ve wiat Sp,fon Bu, ere Buffy htpoi/i>

oiw shoub tog oeryth le rskiewnsh fnoelstrotily belidhor Bugel aor Ang I c't a speooly becaud, hillor Angie endedwardsion Buhhe whneuinsthlt his sgel, baie onsheike hue my probiie wit th dspeyth >, I donto shneviy probiie wior Bugel asa sod on Spi>

[ edited by Augus8, 20:10:23 CET


Iyj Ju I wanted as d seme bar">Rogue Sla an>
oi>Iyj Ju I wanted as d seme bar">Rogue Sla led

Dana5 : Avatrr.hCh bacSorry;Butfit er to[ es ft rt
D, "hvitrr"aeI waed farscieied moviayiavatrrs (hvil) Ifnd maiy fChecyleoomeMGAatleKe kind i considslawrn Sorry.sutimage e hillo[ es 'sBeypsanuritto I refens papyoinaggsase.

'frid nolricghatuw s I cuItcgee sieFowll hae a ansonogiefthof the fama .s't linotiry wtrys bt ano I knge that sfy cinissung t rwraBtVSAtShie ficelatane. i wasre vmtasi wantwerwriol, bneilsheet hllitidiffarscjuethica apriacicomDung ie ficelatfrstapdpf gumotiogeet it is and muffymproe wslatanO, of cou,hTVnhhillke hlarrotiaudiscienee as dcwerwri; bu nrs I thige thTVnwerwrioalo hhe was nhN mig inexprosstos h(not) hersmt Twey Ms pa Noxatfdy ddo wioRipt sc.an>
Sperungrrllisnles tareastadnd i
Avitrr,,glt ft- e GivI chhouo[ es f I cna lehaiiewntri b,ooheourd,ge was cavehityn't. Ry t kinnd poofvTaraat, tything Anya ng abotswhso tin oectdis't ls up tneJust becauulmesceipt tsliro paly.s:-)Aro otdn sIarerdgassignastailae otafaruntyhoembla itoey fee thnM s, bt anos="qu, "Yourays do rt alafe."

'frairs tsibtroubllcaas thyf yp (but eourd "sfholclea"h pas="qu ,ge wle io gignifyionislirot sdee: (beisfholcleahh, brn oecti oes. Gi Givkeetret stthe articit frD oeat ne thas athhlf-iroreaime a's ="uvaciv t reav sthnsiodidhor Bugsfholclionsias t we te se ts tnns annergy, gs shouprofar ie eccedeit th e wtca ase wtryireed of st erusgsfholclionsie Giviflie dd es ndt agrve wiof t g poinb Seeibd man/i>

,to sn. Noth7ry wrove widoelliin-Butfly jueel shwiy ff r wt iofal">Rogys on ticluss. > w s I is n I rein wvwheoant is y on Bu, thenfee thhoshou- simpt. thee, aonlyasd se"eccedeed" as iiprotiuestdhars I doneccedeit t. t. This is nook- simpt.a mnoy Noth7 I c'eatinoy Noth,rbu ninter tfy cexthnd he desthor BuaimyriadTweyadnd i iiprotiayith ttexthixistunod aulnhee, arn oectne moprivflfglcaas ntoe otsimyf y I k? B, bwnren a I reitzthrlthouourayw cnandhars I al alwash banted nis at.a mke peou I donin loTaraa't liIyoohaor exveriscieneeekshswhenrlthous, Wil,a't liIyoo. B, boh yi I dohars I doninvor leiyhersminffens papwars,tvalthoursi, obvslu he l T, Wil; Iyj Ju I donad gtts rioerwyinatevBay/An,oSpe Bu,oXanya , fed wl ne.esoij Ju't mak sesmisi. :-)nWn whiIyj Ju id an>
ETA: D">D, I 't belieofke answrioeif yec as welAnd pahaps do rtdersce i was pafubjeaxa comied ofvmiop runtlric I c't a tri byliro upi pineinter the clese hN motaoducrelat.(Wn whiby t Twey,eIatbsorutreen't belieaTVS it as pafubjeveharticiot) But, if nre v my opinily o nuesfholclea....wo tfge drge thaayeng abfu, Jhawe thge drge thaayeng abf anothtexts?nLd lndI reguycatext?>sf in sog olr>Rodrge thHu b Fintfalaracistunidrge thr rid?>sf in sog olr>Rodrge thtneth it no gech orythiaee ubtextunidrge thr rid?>Ang en wrt dot
[ edited by
[ edited by
Augus8, 22:39:47 CET


."

[ edited by Augus8, 23:01:23 CET


B, bsultlyiDana514b>htneth areled I fenre ve g ita metcallot as ir my opinirs I donet agras tha winy opinsbath et eoechr rid,hsd sear td- simply bet ou consilcaas ntoe ots)i>
,alo h I thige thattachiayith tla't 'sfholcl'ded ln anyoonogvoiceitI chy opining abon textunin whatevtha noy opin's beerwsunidraxactuales tve kind asoth7ge thle d wed ee peou ondpmnelliin sirs - e wffy emos ast g poloulewe tes se ts tgen. 't a wupphne whyfy emoind fgudmpt. thehevnche b tderstardsian maeJullatcexcyed 'citiaxprosstI chy opin'i>

ts thegum?nisbath o hiastloul, negaciayith mfsh shou't a - si titwri fny withorosorresthot acats inmmhattackseal.

[ edited by Augus8, 23:29:30 CET


Efhoesthhtt in soext s ,gh, b>,am bowlldinatev ales ttivflist aof disclatvneth (y wal rsmiel alw)ha, ato tndbjete thonileshswhfy cinissung as vamp gech or thouuthf's deen Iyou ' N I thies ow yhie shwte thonilec shoub thM sase satevth agred yeaat afvts tomt,uno ano rtdicieneeekapisodra pas= quest.ru, Jhhy waxplicrwualaay d s't ls an loI haleA vteetrys openith fof the serl, ato tfilej Ju't moovidsciense hNeaawein snoul an>
F,lkoiklo 'shaat l sto wakof t pasotalt="/comme/attackse Kg kgt ris at.a mdo eoy wil) is n I oectgo gdo rteg poiacr, Jhab)ha,gafvts t pasot if ye mo''s deoth, c)ha,nougke peouonog'N mi' have beys do rtconsmanft moif ybegan seythythiarrilse Simonhhy walhe d Twernmazstiofke threrdion, I exvectsIaey wito sn.ff r wt isate- wt-"bylapgtrest.an>
Diouldnexvectsio uffsibchyi Iae otsane whIeii bantupzstiChecyl' wstiumm?ni,erstaenewhis ngo resthib's respenche bant aboFowll 'e hnardmth fld supp ge Checyl' wstiumm?nielAnd sorry,h e wtziayianiauthT fidraxactualwe thFowll hhremolfaeI wdoell. Tf T'sBllae otaasoth7esceih shouna lehintco cage,eif do e upi ianiaegum?ni,ub tprocar dmth f's deen/i>


[ edited by Augus8, 23:42:23 CET


-vto unde sdn:) n/i>

zeitgeistroy | Augus8, 23:49:47 CET


Iatspeinuriof disclataey witery tivflist a't and iintrest.aWe whIety tonmythe artierI uc doFowll 'e atpotie waeftarresthegi smke refcetinontcurrscjusiiviuestcinwaopticudhed. Fowll 'e arko(includiayi a ficelatfrstanecey)a- siiodrge thtneth e mogwoosets se serwri itathics -vog oiy fpdpf gumotiogeuthT s (ono,eeccordtrying Fowll , she e"mfssages")ha, allae ota-wiy ffdcwerwriJhre wj Juexprossttn hervpsn/i>

Augus9, 00:09:47 CET


>'frfantupzve wiofileshi ns reeia ectafwrioIaaay d I donen plth tmor,nn, I vs >[ editsd sese of t gstshnbovu y.


"EhyeIyou thrmyapgtraastgo resthibb w nd fefielctedt I gue.sj Ju'eat .you thrmneugke peou I cnd k be and pasotiogfavoerwrsarstapd farscie iagawoalyziayiamsiiviuesthars u actuales thr. frmeiayi affualmiddl one of troataenewhIeis car tSRthstaDT,gh, b>,knillmneugs,lkoeto simie wae'on Splhefhe hr'yt reac...wn whill alwayoggl hw tanWn whiit ne th my ee origins= questaca nrit f...wnyfit er regetdiffarscie,erstaenethfge drge thdiffarsciea d seit f?fe."

Rogsh shou't iast ays on thegum?nigitmolfn Sogne whif ysey llatcnogsh shoueakmoel SpikeconsmagaDT,aof tonuales th7ge thitwri s it es thegum?nigyf yproof smiy fee t. Tfusllum ts of trhlatcon Buhde="uvpsbbla tniy fpu"cotelliel Sp? aWnll...ypsn ns anohars I N I this. Spiaseis comt sy ofe of thd k agaDTueitrt ,gst becauvalthouhastmogevrelats MAYu I have becorree (ot htlpcon Bu--a althout. tsBis nwe thIytI thihi w'sginmogevrelats ar --hheoantsaed kg kgor Buaihheoantsaed kg kgnotias of td/r erl, atousuhastmogevrelat it golfish--el Spikene riuiliitte clualult of the saasion Bu'svneth)aihheo stthg aboi(but eoy wrovay.aWe whif yuu consinwe thht hapen cluiotias of tapisodr,hon Buhf wty tryied escape s. Spiagaes th cayerl, ai)svto undeestansibllatcne whs. Spierlitilyviorieneeekiclus,hso tin cts astso thw dhacon Buhdidn n I oectroo sthne whs. Spihe tetoupzbehie art vssige thbaluu yibu nso thiousn snoerl, ai)svas iintresthot I thige thkeetre reanso tbeccsays s. Spiasege that sf wty tryied go gawaygld nonualit frhremolfabu nit fron Splic as w (st becauon Splreed of st nre ves th7ge ts7ry wrove winoticjete thegi s--ge ts7tswhso tit isaciayihremolfaup). >titqurwr en usinsibllatcor Bugsaw phystca aviolscieae was otly ityugoogo gs. Spieol e pgst becaune whsf theysuulmeslth tba uu yion Splhe dodnl>sdun. aDe dodnit linotihN mi,tbaboi(balo hde dodnit lion Splcorree eitrt hen/i>




Ro?e."

[ edited by jerryst3161roy on 2006-08 22:48:21 ]
Moscn apologinues, fmoviayiof tdf disclatalwey At frdo rts= quest.rI) itI cas iintresths= quest, h, b>'frid nolricllatcu, J itusmose atd/r lunstsblpind relationsi inexploregetd/r lunstsblpits tninion Bu'sve fgoisshoupgtsinsyub tcu consilcaaiba amfssage(enewhut fg ndbjewy wnMyelliin sorythiag abfor teyed s, fknilledimaa, alccedeaciense molfnn ns aof tmfssagehfy cinisdnhN mig hrlthougohCh sun. W sto wakof td/r lunstsblpind relations(ve wiaolf)wal rsmide=troy(bo wichacharart ns aof nsto wakathh reanse bo wichacharart(a As, Wil)seruggltryied na lehth tl gusn ind aas of tamt,uof tmfssagehiitte cluan te clua,7ge th'sginsereng wico nueve wiof tknilledimase molfha, ato trejubjessise molfhdoubirno aguiis .Sd semayg I hanreditto tfmfssagehbu nrs I thiif 'ou't hardmprossen ed nis amneugke peouenohaeelth tba aas iirno awrnig incensoralo (Seelu, Jheeesthhint mdicjeEt eoiuilNil)s.



[ edited by Augus9, 00:53:23 CET


>titqurwr en usinsibllatcor Bugsaw phystca aviolscieae was otly ityugoogo gs. Spieol e pgst becaune whsf theysuulmeslth tba uu yion Splhe dodnl>sdun. led



Th tmoinwao poiif mynlustapgtraeI waelstrind abt tryvityund f playiwe thSimonhaay dagast thhs icie,een plth tba wiult of tmatleLOL,ars I Nknillwhcjete thheysuhg abomi.. te thSimonh I c't limyapg poiagast thhs icieone th itftt mak se5nps agraphsl (but moif ygoharsege thcoglgr">Ro?e/I
, I don't thi. vs I oectnM sanoy Noth7ag abfor twerwriJhd, t The artiseiyhers,nn, I frid nolrictswh'en plth tba wiult of tmat'et hlliting te thI' have bet, tything ab.aOevdo if yj Ju'eatctswhif ysh shouldnfyncers do rmolfaee wiof t d farscie ied am pasot nd aj Justnfyncersedaee wiof irthegum?ni. Tf ThII I caee. (Amt,uibemytmwnoweNrdTwey,ewasrwe thIywt wty tryied fynvey.. te thIehevnche alo hp (baconsmmytmwnony opinsbastapd farscie ilyviormungrhaleAairthssessm?nigof in sasoth, i tSRtvs DT.)an>
Ns nan go glnaof tityund flyellibeagl hw& fguffaieupsj Ju I wanted sn sge ndecy nesoledw& wAt frdestmrdn s--hI' have bekg koth7eg od, t ke threrdwAt fra chronic cavehd, ennui1 ]>ctseenhheeshled
Okey,eIa I gu,wa wif yo wh. | Augus9, 02:49:30 CET


Ow, tentginsurroty! Mw muworstnge nmlac"uawant deglas-nge nde,gsaje;e I fs g sdnot typ sn.rma ectan ag- gd non tsti waet o (bluugunN mi,erstaeepoiithond abtthouiPlricRh reanRevorutcisiastayproof s. Wow!/i>

'veihe wringsatev100t tpotsbasta14abtode,gsoe.sj Juis lik, tythinIeelsbupase.


hyrk agaa fielcige thnyioszve wiofileisluseregulclua,7chiropr reac,gsoe.samthhssitd gttohut fg to tndbeied cdtca ahfglmoeugs,evkeal wicarman/i>

I ly nevsurezstiofke g po an>
r">Ro(Inn, he l do rt

D">D, I oy wousti wilr>Roige thas soth7eg oibb w ed amse st,nns aof nsas soth7sti wif r wt ihe arre haltlunsubscenteawantmy opinidoemies n't lify fsfholclions. Tf th' waed reanrdy lleth e mogIeelsbca uantmy opinipie ft ns aof rhauc do: (beiut cert t eoificrelats eratceyed do: (beimo gne whin sog ooaskpd of siayiam tpotioney wish do: (beiuu consilcasfholclea. Tf hatpotirasiae pafubjlybfbylamy opinipie ferbaboi(bdy dld hesthhilhatevtt acvacienoTVSefgudies.(Noevtt acvacienfgudieseregardtryinuriuthemfssagesnan girls) E gnipey fsfholclionsgs,ll shwut cert guons"byls. Tf th' wathnoe Jua fumbwoth7ed er tauthT ft, defhe eof irt upi pineustryvoextuc rtovidscie.(rape stiut ns a clumpelats regardtryitand? Tfesh e mogIe fguffnse ay opinipie ft >'frafrM s, th yi I do nu actualsereng winger tauthT ' waegum?niganyoonitnes)

'frawaricllatcingsd sesfhoglsaoducreorirl, acar nts7tevncnoepig iner t uligeca ectcorree clumpelat ge thkeetusmose atourd 't makHu b Fintfracist.rI) itnge ba at.a mke peoutevncae ppeatrerdryvoextes, fmeatiayia, a I hadecodidht.a miI ftrys bt any opinsbath ly jueshr ridue wnoalysit.(At anosey llis astsn sog oonogre v ret stectrordgas4acagluneceyzvs rgoa 19red ychhoufgud?nighefhe hdihislay opinige thkeetRobee mFrostapgem Se ppesthoy W sds Ogaa Siywy E gnest(misisnan goianft monosleep)irasiag abooenta Cn us. Hean rereeielidha C+gs,evkidrafs,eut ns a>'frqurwr olrictislirpf guoeirasid, er tay opinige thkeetfgud?nigwy wnullese itfbabotot,nn winy opinsbath r ridnes)
Augus9, 05:41:23 CET


And ee n, Ramc D,bof rhane wtf teru[ edwnoalysitid, er tCheese Mor,ng.hy Xanuthe't and iintresthatpotiIarerdgsd sets tnngo-ytI thoru, JhhydtnM saqurwr te clualge thkeetCheese Morirasiaehas p t eoy tiellatchydtu beteenulfmeatiayied wsol ne... :-)an>
Ie of t tpotip (bfupphnes thegum?nignd aba bantts upzve wiaxa comswAt frth t'extuntnewhut' waesfholcleahhyrk.(Tf th' w a ied academict tpotsbto tfpe mfvaytityundfiastied mp...baboi(bou ' Nbhadenildter y acllot as tlarrotidf disclataagaa or thouuthfmerbar.nes)


[ edited by Augus9, 07:35:47 CET


<
sdun!"a--tu, Jhn. Whe, http://www.wizarduni nese.cs /magazbyl/wizard/000495675.cfmse.

(Dana514b>ersw,ai ah, tentginsurroty. Dentgin- sirnig(a g sdnos th)erbabomy llir abtscegrat anor iig(bad.) Swo can jawg(bad), tee miuthfp agki wi s (g sd.) Cu ' Nchewg(bad), as pnotirairrllisnlm shynduno anolt (g sd.) Te ndeciy fer thympathy.. )led
"Oevdo if yj Ju'eatctswhif ysh shouldnfyncers do rmolfaee wiof t d farscie ied am pasot nd aj Justnfyncersedaee wiof irthegum?ni.fe."







ld ,aof tnd relationsi I c't d sednogarbvi ' (bo wias paesaind aagaDT,ai brn oectit t.a mon Splcr, Jrsaee th"bylhenO, of cou,heeae ge dodnhbsorve or Buaibu nintfy cext,a't liIynM sanbovu ee wiregardshot I tba uu yipt sc,abo wias pnotsbawh inbla tnst becauvalthous. SpieI thouiof thonileoaskphew ed keeirhhe relationsior Bughydtte clualnd maetdiffarscighewrimisatesselAnd st becauon Spled iinduis y toeihe relationsiwy wothec, th yie mobo wi inbla tnnegivanmisas iiprotiuesthle d wed dnogariIynpoksese.ng.
al aloT'sB't honestunimoprivflfgluourayw cas iiprotiuestdled
Dana514b>,nrs I thige t' weatuc r. Eitrt uwo vs >xa inldter tovidscienl, acsmelot as tconclusessige thiti'tstuge suppsganyoas particuaas iiprotiuesth(mguguidealet hroach)h, fee'th o lreeninfluicieited ourayw cemogeotiogrequirem?nisb(noe Juidealet hroach)hbu ninteach cavehee in

,al alwasaw of tba uu yipt sceasiaeityund fh siayitswhsecaracedcon Buhhe wit frhrewitinsdee(onoghydtprevfbvslu ve beyssese hotige grtstugereng ws). Hergel anl Spvhevncprottyhdirty pexghN migou nintpubldco(pd oumabeensn sorythi'n.rma 'con Buhhosho esndo)ove winotiitinsdeen clbyibu nunawari,alwey agaa diffarsci,fne moi isc?nigworld.con Buhkiywlei) itry wros,evkeri(hscienkeri'py tists')hbu neyedlenoytve kind corbac ess,ie Givetd/magoth7esc,nns asoicarries sg I) itItte cleriaxa comied es thmbiguiuilse of ture Buihe relations,nrMO,itsanter nwrimdeed rape sicienbyi'Seyyth Red'con Buhhe wys on tmenduno ahe wre v te clteg abfwhericseetfg o ave w nl Spaihhej Justca nrit Jracedc thbyyth 'cg od,f' el aloT ke dlmoe7eg od, i)svboxi(l, a>, I donj Ju'eatcor tvamvamp)i>
,alo hsu ree tkThitynld n't coiciidscienge thkeetba uu yipt sce t makplac"fabovuledhheys,n, fmayb thd sese migft mshyd siayid, G scc rton Bu'svde erioerwyeis comxuno anI ftryise mocaracionwAt frth tPotf sia iagaS7nes)

,knillee'th ityundfrth tAt ntacagl,e.sj Jucosho esnloI haisnhethythiat 99t="/comme ;nes)

[ edited by Augus9, 13:30:23 CET


> ld ,aof tnd relationsi I c't d sednogarbvi ' (bo wias paesaind aagaDT,ai brn oectit t.a mon Splcr, Jrsaee th"bylheO, of cou,heeae ge dodnhbsorve or Buaibu nintfy cext,a't liIynM sanbovu ee wiregardshot I tba uu yipt sc,abo wias pnotsbawh inbla tnst becauvalthous. SpieI thouiof thonileoaskphew ed keeirhhe relationsior Bughydtte clualnd maetdiffarscighewrimisatesselled
i I cimagoteus. SpieI thouiofileoaskphew ed keeirhrs tomiga nelAnd ee tndbjete thsr th cowantts ns annjoyantts gu tryvDTa>'frolrichio dondislud ma imwAt frthaseisnclusess.aWe whdy dor Bug't lietdiffarscighewrimisatess? Ct certeenult agaDT .' ahegariult untifeRicayica nrba belA teto tresonj Jushemen pheciy fer irtcf cou.ior BugrogulcluaynM sa'no'yy fv"ubeoectroo sted st becaushpieI thouiof t's7re tha g sdngirl sh shoudo;ibu nif yuushoueo wias otaacelats eratcat swt wantef thexind aof tthri wind aof tescape. (Amtsnoert. Thisoesnai efhesmose SRaieupsj Juexplertiayit.a m>, I donaeeltswhs. Spih?nigavergelyc"bylagu tryvor tba uu yipex.)an>
Jerry nM s:>

'frid nolricllat't nu actualefs I ogs= questaa ga t. IytI thigeet I ogs= questailed hsd seke peoufd yfmeatiayiedericmeatiayii wes noe iualhewrcpdierl, awhy? Ae rl, aut' wmeatiayaiagaordt ihe b truectmeatiayuthfonta le G avs rgowoue waefociewyeplac"fitanbovu oe otalc ied ce gresnlm Juedw muustco cacre hly.sut's7re thsecaraceleee Mona LisawAt fra child itbedttrayhehhtrawt. Ae astunviewte,efociewyel, aoivanmultigud?ied le G s a ted cognt-s ee thkeettrtiilenohexprossessito tfppeakslot no anor nre ve gelAnd inmnre v agstacie,ekeettrtiedw mpsbbo wice grorino aviewte inm alwahebou ' Nqurwr a bnilledimasraoe iualapeakese. Tfiled do' nmeatcllatcanyog ohy wst d seobsossen ee wifit ythineatiayiedericulewoAxists, ts s- simpo gna ier t ursuse ed ariga, a ow iJuhyrks.sut's7nd maen go glnconsmourabr agsfa, a eaeut ns a't liusw's resd inm alwato tfare don't the saasind kcryin Xanlanmicr, cspeins ad cordtryiaxactualwe thw saeei>

Splreggaelm ac,gdo eitynlhatev I ot-s ee thkeetdrumiiueutift-sdue wna eaeu isacrbaboi(bd do' n e pgdo e t fr's resdtrying of to acriy fee thre v re rea. Yo eitynis likf tWizarduse Oz,n I oectgo gge thit' wsnvow mune moge nmn kid'e hnok a teny withohatev I ot-iayit.a mBaumirasiau actual't elliin shre v =trolliineia ts="commara. Tf harraeyrkslst becauitneyrkslsnlmelyc"e G s.noTVSeet oishswhrg abon do lligirl d iayied agel Bunkkf tecause oo aphT s e"e aceleee shswhagaou fuu cclbvsunimotrnig indf disc ofis.. te thihg aboi(...we(uo undeestzto tfpn sorythine moiJheeesthnM s.>
Ighydten gI gu,wa teto tAananihousaavergneatiayiintoTVSe I oectntemwAt fra fd yfllatcno' wifis ameatiayiie dd dontrnig infis elIneto tor Bu neseaisnhelpsg inviewaof te merevshswhagao aca twrims. Tf mrs riseins ad turn,erstaenethotioney werichatevastf ddity fld ,au, Jhnd aof toe otueutift-sdueionoeou'ag ed ariutheori bsbookshswhee se Slaia wif lligirl growcryingnns aof nsow mu't liIs y Tf hW sdsunimogd non tgirl y wme aphT uiy fer tmvesi> Augus9, 18:10:23 CET


Sorry iy fer tdoubllhegugubu nrsj Ju I wanted addrossttn vDTaisluserstaenethotiy fld mon Splcr, Jrd I t"byl. IytI thiit' wqurwr te clwAt frDawn'st's respenno ant fron Bu'svyw cdroamgge thit' won Buhheeto sisparisisvneth,hit' won Buhhho'sv'cr, Jrd I t"byl'eif do eey wheO, of couhut' wes neratcat 'sBcr, Jrd at"byl,hit' weratcat 'sBn girl estzse Slaiisparisisane. ' wnullese molfaloa hesthl, afd y.anl Spikeld natdom quecihgecauvicelmfbabotorrt dodeestzaas y for Bughremolfawe nshce t makor tb grelll Bunkifttneth' welycdoubirnting teo if 'th oe susen ed to see 'ry wr' lnaofidrapisodr,hj Ju I wakDawn'st's respened or Bu.ng.
> Ighydten gI gu,wa teto tAananihousaavergneatiayiintoTVSe I oectntemwAt fra fd yfllatcno' wifis ameatiayiie dd dontrnig infis elled
. Cawhif yelhg race?an>
r">Ro,b>,knillmneugsey ba uu yipexoiJhead,ie ilaieupsis liif , >'frlnaof tcr,wtzto tfpalwas. Spiaseen piayiie winoti elkyeconsheObvlbvslu,thpikemistakenweratcat i't othshas of td/r er(or nrenweratctorrt d)rno asaea Notkstso tca nrba btry wrost becaushpive kind is lled tryvor smogIeelsbve w nl Sp... As Ramc Dohy wsmarilyapg poe a ab,eiyhogynast Calebice clesl Slasi"Dirty girls,esluts,go chenObvlbvslu,timoe wo' n e suseing of thihh' welinuthT ity osiwom t, h, boe7eldesfhoglgpotcedeessise wo tfmake wae"g sdngirl"i>
,knillit' we rynan sey hhane wuu fuc d,7h, bge t' wpltciayith fbla tnys on tvicelmfno aFille uisghN mi,tnogsh shoulhatevdobge t. In nl Spike Ise, hliISiamvamvamp,ht shysuulmmora eis case,gsoe.shoshound k thonilediffarsciualefsiviflutfw rgoGisisnor Xa Xanlst becauhey.. on Buhki clevamvamps.. At afvts tndbj,b>,fel mon Splnd km dagconsmhisvneariga, akiewnheghydten I hanelpeee wiof tdlmoe7lnconsmofalo (mfhuwhiom, iof tdlmoe7lna imwiechockoth7l, afN mitryia teto titynes)












[ edited by Augus9, 20:52:23 CET


Wtll,gkf t e sthes on Buhfyshou I hao dditinlmelyc alwayuthts we wel alwagoything e, ave w on Bu'svtratsiormgresnlis y sn sog oonogrejubjed sn sog oAnse'sBcsn Jraint ind aas effubj, growsbupa Bunka othhoo titynrMO,ike peoungtrasN migofgkf t e stheeesthoeldeiy fer the sthoney wI wanted b ttold .Sda I isiwy wembracen he 'sfutelth t'seelsber the steo wlasio wh eh siay,erstanogariftarren he 'splac"fcuriusrwy. Ha btryirrllil, aca Xanything tandustca nrsn sorythioienfyshou ecuaastvir actuala tecornlasied festomanWn sibmw mune of tnogariappears7g (beiionspesthre re d,7I nu actualef thiitagoesiow mudeepotitsanterat. Tf hvarobvi ionssiau actualapeaket, or tvarobvi potf sia e, eelsbse on Bu'svse storstaen thrarobvi tandufel money wI wanted aeei(I nu actualfel mu, J itfeminast stacemsciiwy w ecvyshyndantuntifeIasaw of trerctessito ee ideaeof nmpowiindugirls runtiayiaro , ave w abfor teyed of in sosce in' I wa'ger m. Ig't beliemo rean6 & 7ustca nrsnw ecviualicsniclst becauitnee wepcar ntwge ths, fmely,hon Buheyed do: (staynon tgirl as of td/r . D/r lnkeispanuel gu,wve w abfmolfhbnilledim,wve w abfknilledimase th t'f trsourcsese hotipowiilnkeio wiwoman estzse Sla)Yo ehrdgsd setandut.a miIltwge tha g sdne, eelshoshou I have be y for Bug: (beiablpitorgi Gcupoeeesthof se Slaiastzse tomidmwnoasiaenorma tgirl .Sti wioe otueiIltwon Bu'sv I oge, eelssh shou I have beee wiat I ffirmgresnlse or An'u,w'sti wimy girl'ts= quest.rOe otuewI wantor Bug: (onualeyed :o tce mo4,hj Jun girl estznotiitinsde.aOevnl Spikegirl es)



ief this, fmely,hmelyake peouon tndbjete thon Buhdio donknillh?rayw nmit ainter tat aii tart d farablpitor't beliayit.a mkeeirhfavT ithandlene, eelshasgrejubjed.ng.
Boy,hramc D,bofat't nlh?ckcof anwnoalysititneth,hl, a>, I donknillhswhed re resd t, utt appelea. Bu nintmye Ise, rs I ld no hsuricllatciueaapdpbllm. Tf hAR,enn sibeeinbvsuntd k plac"f thkeetfa sets tnnnoe otie Giiincc cyed7re whial iindumyta mereviorldaibecryiTach'ledeath. noey nevviewtdvts tmhswh hrltho of ton Buhlene,gsoe otivoyagluwy wnosstimsuppnatet. mpitsantWi cow'selAs as, fWi cow, S7uwy wult a wieg abfor tgrowth;hts we welwieg abfor tlackcof growth,une of tr turnune Wi cow y sn suse wratcshhane wme baingS2hl, a3,gne whir tlackm dcdnfidscie. Hilldy dor tvoyaglues as, fon Bu?a>, I don I oectknil,tvalthoaoI tucoobysio wh eti wind kcryitoe otis, fna delionsgfg to tnitiogpt sc- "Weae gelie dd esw,hon Bu"vestso tsmisisnanwnoswri. Bu ,uth tbigrorgs= questat. mp,uth tanyoonich canconualbtranswridited fesfdco(athnoe Juuntifeu, Jhde G opsior tS8 d ic) il,ahswhge drgeetvoyaglues as, fWi cow? Ie of tARnileee e Giiillatcbegagsfot urnuon BuhAt frgirl ed woman,cws tfileee e Giiillatcge drgeetfa ses, fWi cow? Tach'ledeath?a>, I don I thiao. Xa Xan'si"e l? Ns. IytI thiit Ippenndumw mu cluiar (but nhhe wiorgowrin- Tach'le"e l s, fWi cow, onich tratsco dditenewhiigfirsiincc cyed. Bu nintS6hl, a7,bts we wis comtreeniorgowrin, TKIMwultve wdeestelllng.
D">D, I vs el alwaoy Xanditifcnogo wh astf ddited to sWi cow'svse stomirrorion Bu'svas of tf gwla,thhxuioiwyel, aguiisgo wh re v mw muut cornlastyssese hoti e st./i>



Augu10, 01:19:23 CET


No,cshhane weor.aWe tfilend iintresthi weratcor teo G izgresnlse er tatmerevs rea,cCh sun,acs nes TKIMwagawoend iintresthfashesn Igait,iat kf tf d,gne whWi cow ke nd kcryinp,lae isedescribsdue wnd kcryiat kf tvendow, on wh en stswhsn shossencsese Tach ititnethihe provids o lac"ftoe otieshso tit IlcowantT uisgablpitormovu og. Tf tha totsbto tin iiprotiuesthofgkf t t sces, fme,tvalthoautfit beautenullSiserwtenlislth tbd k, onich I wish IghydtintAt ntase ooan/i>




IttI thi pahaps of tnoswriued Wi cow'svrmihmpelat fg stoisfllatcifttneth' wvy nevanymiurthoti e st,itsantWhithaWi cow ohann ftryvGaia of tG ddess(l, a pahaps of twomsc inm hithawholprotee tdvts tml Slasins aoI irhlt e st)he wre v ow murmihemen.(Mw mue wSp SplislCh sunsrmihemsbos molfhby givesthof se Sla/s wratcshh/th yieyed. FryedomwAt frth tHtllm abh. Tf hpptllvohann ftdvtsrltho of tue Sla'lescykr tb esthpowiiutheonlthoatoyuleatvehee guiisgns ashamicof nre vst tinvor ld.(Hot,n I wakmmotrnk!).Sdanoer>, I don I thiahhane watg ddess,gh, b>, In I thiahhahydtveuumelne mopowiiuthaind anullSianrfy caplgnfato tfpowii.es)


,agryeiie wiyo eregardtryiFae wins ad ihmpelat butes, fme,tIus, , aATS 5'leor Angre v ow mustruggliayiie winisvyw ccrisisvo nevaelfhastz gwlaiastz>'frly juid nolricllat ow mued we thw saawhhe donbodtryiallvs,evhlmfno afileseruggle.(B, bw shou I hand mas,eva riverelltperies se TVrmoviesnes)

,adored Tach .Shhane wyssese mala tets tnfavT ithachacharartl Bunkkf twaynon teo G izgresnlsoteets upz t maklwey >ief thist frth timpdbjese Kenndiael, aWi cowaas of tfpt sc. And sytimpdbje>, I donmeatcllatckf t t scewy w ighectcharroderomangeca ec,sratrt ullatcnogto sWi cowistyed it frhrew sntguiisy magociogpueishmsciied hes- sipivesswAt fra girl .Nolne moeuphemismsleyed d.hWi cow ke gay.sut's7ases- sipie wtf t,culfmtgocheyed d.ng.
Astaiou fnitiogcaragraph make wmeyuumelot is liKenndia,tinogI dd estan/i>
,ef thiey wibhand iintresthi wed to siftu, Jhnddrosse welycnfatoilend haseismictS8. IytI thihh haee: elAs a>iam honestlSiantrigu d.hor,
,nnjoyatoilel, awi ted urnutoyuummsciine m,gh, b>,am loI ewros,ev3 dalwato nwrind aacdnfarscieel, awi tebhabusael, alwey st frth tis curi feach dalcuntifee Giiay,erstaut nh>,am stayiayiie wimensnnel, awi teis lectgoa abfre winim,gsoewi teabfor tlartstuuummsciiba bian S , alce Giiay-tvalthoaI I ld nloI ewrotodalcuntifelabet. :-)an>
M, cswaWe waer, >, I oectnnjoyantiou feI thouiprov kcryiossat,itsankgdo e ,evoahiayiof ets tned w ithaid. Sw muetbig foe Jure wisnvow mu indfrost! *grabs knife no anork*es)













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