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August 18 2006

Home on the Strange comic about the Buffy season 8 comic book and Buffy comics in general.

LOL

It's only funny 'cause it's true.
Agreed! LOL. (Let the bashing begin!) :-)
I thought it was lame.
hmmm... i cant decide if they ironically said "better" than season 6, knowing full well that every plot point they referenced was season 6, or if theyre just standard season 6 bashers who didn't even realize they did that.
No, let's not let the bashing begin, please. The discussion is a little bit better when there's some substance behind the critique. This is just "comics and Season Six bad." Not sure why saying that in panel form with speech bubbles suddenly makes it funny.
You have to admit, the drawing of Joss brings a smile.
I have to say that while many of the Buffy comics may have been of a lower standard than we are used to from Buffy they mostly are not Joss authored. Tales of the Slayer/Vampire are brilliant books as was Fray. When Joss gets to writing you are assured a quality product. And maybe it's just me but my favourite season of Buffy was season six.
Oh, was that the Boss? I thought it might be some sort of crazy reworking of Warren.

I gotta say, I'm totally expecting Kennedy to go away, cause Joss really doesn't like her. I don't blame him.
Panels 2 and 3 (especially the "I kill anyone who is happy!") were quite funny but 1 and 4 are pretty much just flame-bait with pictures. Still, it's only an expression of an opinion, same as we're all entitled to.

Of the Buffy comics i've only read the Joss/other ME writer penned ones (Fray, Tales of the Slayers/Vampires) and they've been pretty good on the whole (TotV was a bit patchier than TotS, IMO).
Eh, I found it to be more parody than bash, although it did engage in a bit of bash.
Hilarious. If we can't afford to laugh at ourselves and the source of our fandom, then what can we do?
Good on ya, Simon. *applause*
I agree with Simon. Gave me a bit of a giggle.

I'm totally looking forward to Season 8. If Joss is directly involved with setting the story arc and writting some 'episodes' I think it will be of high quality a la TotS or Fray. There also is a lot of expectation around this release as the fans are in Buffy withdrawal and I think Joss knows that and won't produce a second rate product.
I laughed at the pic of Whedon walking in and stabbing a 'happy' person. Then the brainless S6 bashing kinda ruined it. I'm just so tired of it.

Hilarious. If we can't afford to laugh at ourselves and the source of our fandom, then what can we do?


Write angry letters to people? Oh wait, that's Tuesdays activity.
We're not all "brainless", just so you know. There are just some fans that didn't like some elements of the show at that point. Difference of oppinion, not difference in education level.

Just sayin' is all.

But to stay on-topic, I'll say that this little comic strip is far from the best parody (or bash... you say tom-ay-toe, I say tom-ah-toe) that's out there, but in a desert even the murkiest water looks like an oasis.

As for the comic book tie-ins, I'd say 90% of them were worthless tripe. The ones Joss was directly involved in were obviously the best, but the vast majority of them never rose above the line of FEELING like cheap tie-ins. More often than not they were poorly written and horribly illustrated.

Of course the little strip linked to in this thread is no different I suppose... but it made me laugh. Joss killed the happy person. Who could have seen that coming? :P

(I wonder if anyone will get happy then get dead in Wonder Woman...)
Haunt - Wondy 2's working title is "Zombie Wonder Woman On A Hypersonic Invisible Jet". I think the title gives away a spoiler, though, so they may change it to "Wonder Woman Reanimated".
I'm sure that's just a red herring, gossi. Wonder Woman is the star, not to mention a WOMAN, so we all know she's not the one that will be happy.
...And IMDB is already listing the actresses(es) who are playing zombie Wonder Woman. ;-)
There will, in fact, be TWO women playing Wonder Woman. They will alternate each scene. It will keep the audience awake.
That one panel would look good on a T-shirt.
For those of us who didn't like Season 6, it's funny because the reaction is: "Yep, that's about right." Especially "I kill anyone who's happy."
I don't agree about the season six comment, but it was amusing none the less. Particularly the "Yay im happy beause you're a lesbian" thing.
I continue to get a kick out of comics or other media that include Joss as a character in his own right. And I laughed that of course he would kill the happy person.
Funny as all hell. Loved Buffy.
I definitely LOLed at the second and third panel in particular. ;-) Quite amusing.
So much to disagree on in this--but for having Joss kill Kennedy, all is forgiven.

Everyone who thinks the Buffy comic licence was handled poorly: I dare you to look at, say, what Rob Liefeld did with Battlestar Galactica, and still think the same. ;-)

And while I'm at it, I dare you to find a comic book licence that managed to involve the original writers before Buffy did it. Now it's all the rage, from the Family Guy comics to the rumored Lost comics, but before Buffy nobody did it.

[ edited by Telltale on 2006-08-18 20:10 ]
I checked IMDB. Officially, it's "Amazon: Resurrection"
Telltale, not to put too fine a point on it, but the fact that Rob Liefeld is perhaps the worst hack ever to work in the comics industry, and the suggestion that Joss was among the first creators to be involved with the tie-in comics of his original material (an apocryphal claim at best) do nothing to make the hit-or-miss quality of the Buffy comics any better.

Liefeld is a hack.

Joss was (one of) the first original creators to help translate his own material to the comics medium.

The Buffy tie-in comics still left a LOT to be desired.

...imho of course.

(Edited to be nicer to Mr. Liefeld.)

[ edited by Haunt on 2006-08-18 20:52 ]
Liefeld sucks ass.


Don't use language like that here, this isn't a talkback session. Play the ball, not the man.
Sorry 'bout that Simon. I've edited my snarky Liefeld remarks.
Of the Buffy comics i've only read the Joss/other ME writer penned ones (Fray, Tales of the Slayers/Vampires) and they've been pretty good on the whole (TotV was a bit patchier than TotS, IMO).


I think the exact opposite - Tales of the Vampires is mostly brilliant and Tales of the Slayers is "patchy."
It was just mentioned the other day (by Simon) that we are STARVED for any real verse news. This is proof. Poorly drawn 4 panel Buffy related internet comic strip....32 comments and counting...

And yes, IMDB just posted that the villian for WW2 is being played by David Hasselhoff. (lets see how long it takes for the BBC to print that)

Gossi's not a girl???
LOL Pointy ;).

Well dreamlogic I may change my mind on re-reading but I can remember thinking 'Meh' more after some of the 'Tales of the Vampires' stories (e.g. 'Numb', 'Stacy' and 'Jack' - which though very nicely drawn felt a bit slight storywise). On the other hand 'Father' and 'Taking Care of Business' were brilliant, IMO. From TotS the only 'meh' was 'Sonnenblume' and that was solely based on the art (which was probably making some stylistic allusion i'm not aware of but just looked rubbish to my eyes) since I thought the story was well written and affecting. And 'Righteous' was fantastic, manipulative in the best way, using the metre to help convey - and evoke in the reader - Joss' anger. In fairness of course, TotV just has more stories full stop which might explain the higher 'meh' incidence ;).

Out of curiosity, to those who've read them, are any of the non-Joss/ME written Buffy comics worth reading ? Only trade suggestions please, I can't be arsed to track down singles for a story that might not be any good.
Yup. That one panel would look good on a shirt.
That was not a bad likeness of Joss, considering it was scribble. They even put the little forehead curl in.
Hilarious - I love a good parody. That totally reminded me of Angry Alien Productions' 30-second Bunny (Bunnies!) parody movies. I wonder why they haven't done Buffy yet .... hmmmmm.
I have to agree that the vast majority of Buffy tie-in comics, and indeed the novels, left a lot to be desired. I could have put up with some of the underwhelming artwork, however they just didn't capture the Buffy "feeling" at all- no witty dialogue or smart metaphors or the sense of humour we're used to.

I have got Fray, Tales of the Slayers and Tales of the Vampires and all three are much, much better and at the same quality of the show. Fray is a masterpiece and I think without exception, every story in Slayers had a few fantastic ideas which were well implemented. There were a couple of Vampires stories that I wasn't quite so enamoured with (the one that claims Xander spent a year post-Chosen in the thrall of Dracula is just something I cannot accept), but those two were still quite good.

I think the problem is that most "franchises" end up with a lot of tie-in work if they are popular. Takes Star Wars for example, for which there are hundreds of tie-in novels and comics and other such things. There's no way Lucas has time to read them all personally so he probably has people who do it on his behalf. And even then the main aim is probably to make money rather than maintain extremely high standards of artistic quality.

I suspect Joss would probably have different views on this, but we don't really know how much control he had over such matters. And if it meant that the network were more likely to support the show if they could produce merchandise, then it may be a case of having to put up with it.

But I am looking forward to season eight in comic form immensely, and I hope that Joss continues to visit Buffy, Angel and Firefly in comic form if not live action.
Saje, I think we've got a difference of taste, which makes arguing silly. I thought "Stacy" was terrific, and liked "Dustbowl" even better than "Father," and love the framing story with Giles' grandmother.

I haven't read a lot of the non-Whedon comics but I'd recommend "Origin" just because it's based on the original script for the Buffy movie. I also like "Oz," which is the story of Oz's travels during season 4. It's the same story as the Christopher Golden novel, but I like the art in the comic.
Well I admit that I'm biased against in matters concerning Buffy, but personally I would really rather see the franchise stop where it's at. I'm certain the Season 8 comics will be among the best of the comics thus far (except Fray of course), seeing as Joss is so intimately involved. But even so, I'd be more than happy to see the story simply left alone as is. There's really no need to continue.

Now I'm torn about the idea of Angel continuing. But ultimately I think it ended perfectly (and I've got my own Season 6 running in my head anyways).

Firefly, on the other hand, NEEDS to keep going.
Saje, I think we've got a difference of taste, which makes arguing silly

Ah, sure, dreamlogic our individual preferences are entirely subjective so arguing would indeed be silly. Discussing on the other hand ... ;).

Thanks for the recommendations anyway even if, at least in the comics, we seem to have not just different but almost opposite tastes so they might not be my thing.

Haunt, yeah I kind of get that. Much as i'm reeeaally looking forward to the Buffy comics i'm also a little ambivalent myself since I thought the series ended well and would be OK with that being it and us being left to our imaginations. Which is a long-winded way of saying I don't want that purple bugger to kill any more characters I love ;-).

'Firefly' does need to continue but after the first Serenity mini I must admit to wondering if Brett Matthews is the guy to do it (even if the story will be by Joss as before) since I didn't think too much of 'Those Left Behind'.
Haunt, just trying to put things in perspective. Nobody has to like the comics that doesn't want to--just saying that you have to judge the books on their own terms. Being licenced books--not to mention not having moving pictures and actors--brings with it certain limitations and difference.

Yes, there were plenty of misfires, particularly early on, but also plenty to love, like the Pascoe/Fassbender run on the monthly, and 'Haunted' was brilliant.

And no, Joss wasn't the first--I already remembered Matt Groening myself, who started his own publisher to do Simpsons comics--but the point was, it was very rare. Dark Horse gets bonus points from me for making it happen, and not just with Joss, but with Jane Espenson and Amber Benson and more.

Okay, getting a bit wordy and far afield. What it comes down to: The comics get bashed a lot, and I don't think they deserve it.

(Oh, and we completely agree on Liefeld's work. Just put him out there as an extreme example. (Ha! "Extreme." I made a punny without even trying.!))
Personally,after the season 8 comics,I hope Joss revisits Fray with another miniseries.
Out of curiosity, to those who've read them, are any of the non-Joss/ME written Buffy comics worth reading ? Only trade suggestions please, I can't be arsed to track down singles for a story that might not be any good.


Have a yonder at "Litefoot's Buffy comic reviews"

As mentioned "Fray" & "Tales" are in a league of their own.

I also like the comics that tell Buffy's story before "Welcome to the Hellmouth" (their trade paperbacks collecting the issues are: "The Origin", "Viva Las Buffy", "Slayer Interrupted", "A Stake to the Heart")

I'd reccommend Doug Petrie's "Ring of Fire".

I also loved the art work in the prose/graphic novel, "Creatures of Habit".

[ edited by paxomen on 2006-08-19 01:53 ]
I gotta say, I'm totally expecting Kennedy to go away, cause Joss really doesn't like her. I don't blame him.

Source, please.
Yes, source! Because I want to believe...
I don't know if it was the writing for the character, or the actress herself, but she drove me nuts, and I actually had the same problem w/ the Jenny Calendar character. No, bad dog, get away from the main character, SHOO!
Although I didn't care all that much for season 6, I have a real issue with some of the dialog in this comic. Anything that paints Buffy in a bad light fails to amuse me. I do get the comparrison to season 6 but there was a little more to Buffy than that after she returned from the grave.

I can't believe some fans would rather not continue the Buffyverse in Joss's comics. Of all the characters, Buffy is the one that I can't wait to hear something about. Her and the core four. It's been so long and we are so close, I feel like a child the night before X-Mas. The only thing better would be to hear that Joss and Sarah have decided to bring Buffy back via the big screen. I would just die.
Actually, the various Simpsons comics involved the creators of the show long before Buffy happened.
Kill Kennedy! Please! Wait, I shouldn't say that too loudly because if Joss hears what I want....:p

[ edited by escapist_dream on 2006-08-19 07:01 ]
because if Joss hears what I want


SHHHHHH! No...we all really really love Kennedy. She's lke our favourite character. Please let her stay around forever!
I agree nixygirl everyone should leave Kennedy alone. She always seemed so happy. So very, very happy. Almost ecstatic. And she and Willow were so lovely together, i'm so glad they got a happy ending. It left me totally psychologicaly unscarred.

(if that doesn't do it then this whole reverse psychology thing's a total crock)

Cheers for the link and suggestions paxomen. I may need to add some of those to my to-be-read pile.
I, in a non-sarcastic way, actually liked Kennedy. The premise of a spoiled brat, silver spoon rich kid who always gets her way actually having some depth of character . . . she was like Katherine Hepburn with a tongue stud.

Yeah. She's doomed.
Did not actually find this funny, though I thought this strip was more a comment on the fans while also making a comment on the comics. A fan writes a terrible strip that is a horrible simplification of elements that the fans seem to focus on and says it is better than what he has actually used as source material. Ambitious idea if that was the author's intention. I give kudos for taking creative risks, so good for him.

"Well I admit that I'm biased against in matters concerning Buffy, but personally I would really rather see the franchise stop where it's at. I'm certain the Season 8 comics will be among the best of the comics thus far (except Fray of course), seeing as Joss is so intimately involved. But even so, I'd be more than happy to see the story simply left alone as is. There's really no need to continue."

Since you say you are biased against Buffy, (either the character or the show) I guess it makes sense that you do not want it to continue. I, on the other hand, would only not want it to continue if it was someone other than Joss who continued it. I could have been happy with no season 8 and let further adventures be a product of my own imagination and the hints given in Ats. However, if Joss wants to continue, things change totally. I have faith that I will want to know where he takes Buffy et al and that I will enjoy the journey.

I assume one reason he wants to continue is that while figuring out the references to the Buffy-crew in Ats he developed a story of what was going on with them. If the story is in Joss's head, I want to see it, hear it, or read it. If he kills someone, I will be sad (Ok, there are some losses that would not make me particularly sad.) but it will be part of the story and I will deal...and look to see if he is going to produce more.

"There also is a lot of expectation around this release as the fans are in Buffy withdrawal and I think Joss knows that and won't produce a second rate product."

I agree. Compared to what I have been reading around and about, I am beginning to feel like a Polyanna when it comes to Joss. I don't think he is God or perfect, but I do think he is an amazing writer and very talented film/TV maker. I trust the guy to give me quality art, whatever story line he decides to follow. Lately I have begun to feel in the minority about that even here. Maybe that is because we are so starved for new Joss-work, that it magnifies our fears that future work will not satisfy our various and varied addictions. I don't know. I'm exhausted and probably talking through my hat.
No, newcj, I agree hugely with every word you wrote. (Although, frankly, I think you give the cartoonist too much credit). Well said.
As one who's actually enjoying Astonishing X-Men (and really loved Fray) I am sure Joss will make an excellent Season 8-Comic book... (as long as the hired writers will also be abtle to do a good job).

However I am kinda surprised about the negative view of Buffys Season Six. I kinda think its BTVSs most mature season and it really was great exploring all that dark places. I really loved it. (However I didn't like the ending; that temple thing wasn't working for me)
I think I've probably defended season six hundreds of times here, however I'm not going to now. Let's face it, it's a season that will divide fans more than any other, but in my opinion, every single season of Buffy and Angel is indispensable. Neither is complete without every season, and even if there were a lot of episodes you didn't like, or the general direction it was going in, most Whedonfans can find something to appreciate.

I agree no season is perfect, either, but I think season six is not entirely without merit if you don't particularly love it- Once More With Feeling being but one example.

As for continuing the Buffyverse, I am of course happy to see more if it is penned by Joss or other writers who have previously impressed me and who are guided by Joss. But ultimately, I think the shows that exist already are still an amazing, complete package.

To indulge me in a weird simile, I feel like I've just eaten a really expensive, delicious, fulfilling meal (in other words, seasons one to seven of Buffy and seasons one to five of Angel). With Buffy, it's like I've had a starter, main course and dessert, but any potential continuations are like coffee afterwards, or maybe another dessert. I think the show itself lasted long enough to satisfy me, and I was happy with how it ended, but I wouldn't mind cramming just a little more in.

Angel is more like a starter and main course, but dessert is stolen before you can eat it. The five seasons we saw were amazing and I think Mutant Enemy satisfied the viewers as best they could, but the fact that the end of season five only set up so many more questions and introduced characters like Illyria, meant that it still ended before it's time, so I still want that dessert to finish off my meal.

With Firefly, it was more like the door was slammed in your face as you walked up to the restaurant, with the smell of food in the air. What we have is such a small amount of material in comparison with the 100+ episodes of Buffy and Angel, what we do have is brilliant, but it just has so much potential that it didn't have the chance to live up to, although Serenity was a triumph in capturing some of that.

So basically, I really need to see Firefly again, more Angel would be nice, and Buffy would be great although the latter lasted long enough to provide a complete experience.
As someone who loves every season of Buffy with a love only surpassed by that of my love for dark chocolate (which is tied for first place with my love for my partner and family) I have never quite gotten the singling out of a season or two for the special, special hate.

To me, that would be like loving a person, but hating certain years of their life & development. I understand deploring certain aspects of it ("what a bitch you were ages fifteen to twenty") but hating those years? I tend to love someone or something, warts and all. It's just part of the light and dark that adds up to who or what they are in total.

I love every season of Buffy, but each in a different way. And the thought of a Buffy-world without Evil Willow seems just wrong. Not to mention OMWF, Tabula Rasa, the nerd trio, and Spike getting it on with Anya.

And I would love to see panel three of this cartoon on some article of clothing -- possibly a nightshirt or evening wrap.

"This show ran me, not the other way around. It told me what to say, what to show, when to give comfort and when to draw blood. This show, seven years of it, is a living thing. Put it on your shelf, and go to bed. It'll whisper to you in your sleep." -- Joss Whedon, cover letter of Buffy DVD Boxset 39 Disc Set, 2004.
Well, okay, I agree with the majority that S6 is by far the weakest season...but I still loved it, and not just because it was Buffy. There were some horrible episodes--"Gone" made me feel like I was watching Charmed--and even some good episodes knocked down to mediocre by a few bad elements (take "Smashed," for example...good ep until we get Willow and Amy doing that ridiculous Charmed shtick at the Bronze). There were some disappointing eps, like "Hell's Bells," which could've been so much more. But then you go back and you think of all the good eps. "Once More, With Feeling" ranks high on most anyone's list of greatest Buffy episodes, the Dark Willow trifecta ("Villains," "Two to Go," and "Grave") was fantastic, "Normal Again" was a brilliant bit of storytelling, "Tabula Rasa" was quite funny (if not quite the comic masterpiece the fandom makes it out to be)...and the list goes on. The good outweighs the bad even in Buffy's worst season, which is pretty definitive of anything Joss does.

As for this comic strip...kinda funny, especially the mock-show panels, but a bit too mean-snarky and not enough funny-satirical.

As for the Buffy comics...well, apart from Fray, Tales of the Slayers, Tales of the Vampires, and maybe The Chosen One (the mini that put the 1992 movie in series continuity and actually, you know, was like Joss' script), they were all shit...which, if you ask me, has been like most of the IDW Angel comics (though Spike Vs. Dracula was fun and Spike: Asylum has a lot of potential).

Basically, unless a Buffy tie-in was authored by someone involved with the series or a really hardcore fan (like Christopher Golden or Nancy Holder, for two), they came out like very very bad imitations.
Okay, just to briefly (oh so briefly) say once more that my dissatisfaction with the latter seasons of Buffy stems from many different things, none of which really matter here. In brief (oh so very brief), I didn't LOVE seasons six and seven, but still found many things to love within the seasons. "Once More With Feeling" really ought to go without saying. "After Life". "Tabula Rasa". "Beneath You". "Conversations With Dead People".

So disliked the seasons. Still liked the show (more or less).

Beyond that, for the most part I agree with just about everything Razor and UnpluggedCrazy just said.
"I agree with the majority that S6 is by far the weakest season."

People who do not like S6 taking every opportunity to say so (or take pot-shots) and to assert that they are the majority does not make it true. I don't know if they are in the majority, and I doubt that anyone else does either. Even if they are the majority on the internet, it does not necessarily mean they are the majority period.

I loved Northern Exposure and was terribly disappointed with their last season(s). IMO, besides losing their focus they betrayed their characters. When thinking about NE, however, it is not the disappointment I focus on. Disappointment or failure is to be expected when artists are trying to achieve something as well as when hacks are turning out garbage that they hope will sell. I prefer the disappointment I feel when an ambitious artist missed the mark.

I love S6. It is my favorite season. Not everything is perfect but not everything is perfect in any season. I could pick out what I did not like in all of them, but why? There is a lot more that I do not like on TV, than that I do. I prefer to look at what I do like since that is special, and for me S6 is very special.
"IMO, besides losing their focus they betrayed their characters."

Well, thats how I felt about seasons 6 and 7. But I do agree newcj, that being in the majority or not doesnt mean that someone is correct. Sometimes, being in the majority just means that most of the people are wrong. Your argument, however, seems to depend on the fact that the writers of NE were hacks, and since Joss obviously isnt, we should argue over the small details. But where you love season 6, I dont, and in that sense, I feel the same way about seasons 6 and 7 that you do about the end of NE--minus the hacks of course. Whether we focus on the disappointment or not, expressing love for something is the same as expressing disappointment and hatred. Its just the opposite end of the spectrum...

Indifference on the other hand...
Just to be clear. I was neither saying that the NE writers were hacks or anything about what being in the majority means. I was saying that people proclaiming that their opinion is that of the majority does not make that the case and that although I did not like the end of NE I do not constantly rant about it whenever I get the chance or let it ruin what I did like about the show...except I tried to say it nicely.

I was saying that the more chances a show takes the more it is likely to miss the mark and I would rather enjoy a show that took chances and sometimes did not do what I had hoped it would than watch something that does what is expected right from the beginning. The NE writers were not hacks and neither were the S6 writers. I try to understand the anger people feel at S6 by thinking back to how I felt at the end of NE, but it is getting harder as the years go by. Besides the fact that it is, what 5 years since S6 aired, the natural progression in the characters and the firm foundation for S6 character developments in S2 make it difficult to understand the continuing need to take pot-shots and assert that everyone agrees that S6 was bad at the slightest opportunity. In discussions of the subject sure, but the constant, "I'll make this comment because everybody acknowledges that S6 is terrible." is annoying because then those of us who do not feel that way need to point out, once again that it is simply not true that everybody hates S6 and that is just a bore.
It's a bore to keep having to defend. But if it's necessary to keep the balance - season 6 rocks!!!

Specifics available.
Did I miss where anyone here obnoxiously claimed those of us less-than-satisfied with Season Six/Seven were the "majority"?

Not sure why any mention of the last two years of Buffy always have to be about attack and defense. It's all opinion anyways.
It does not have to be obnoxious (and it wasn't.) It just has to be a stated assumption, which it was, that makes others have to go on record as being in disagreement.

"Not sure why any mention of the last two years of Buffy always have to be about attack and defense. It's all opinion anyways."

Agreed.
I'm all for mocking, but shouldn't a comic be, oh I dunno... funny?

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