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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I miss my home. I miss my mom. I miss the gang. And churros. And sex. Great Muppety Odin, I miss that sex."
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August 22 2006

Morena loses another gig. Sci-Fi Veteran Stargate SG-1 gets cancelled.

Morena just can't get a break, can she? First Firefly, then Serenity, then Justice League, and now Stargate?!? Poor girl...

Well, I don't think her storyline was going to continue after this season anyway. I can't be sure because I've tried to remain spoiler free. I've been a fan of this show since it first aired but I can't say I'm surprised it's not being brought back next season.

From what I understand, it was supposed to end a couple of years ago and they wrapped up the main ongoing story arc but then decided to bring it back and then started the Ori storyline. I am happy to hear that they will at least finish out the season and most likely wrap up this existing storyline.
Well it's about time that SG1 got the axe, but poor Morena.

I don't know what sort of "Guinness World Record-setting accomplishment" they're talking about though. It can't be longevity, because the original series of Doctor Who ran for twenty-six seasons.
I think its the longest running series in the US...or canada...
Sorry Morena, but I gotta say, its about damn time.

I'm about to piss alot of people off, but Stargate has never been a great Sci-Fi show. In fact, its poor acting, writing, and production value embodies all the stereotypes associated with shitty Sci-Fi, and is part of the reason it is not a more accepted genre in popular culture. Furthermore, for this banner-carrier of mediocrity to have survived for 10 freaking seasons while dozens of great shows struggle against the example it sets, is an insult to every decent sci-fi work that has come and gone in that period, including Firefly.

Thank god that nightmare is over.
Yeah, plus gunsmoke, the simpsons, and law and order did more than 10 seasons.
Hmmm.... I wonder why Resolute will piss alot of people off... I liked the show, and I don't think Im the only one lol. And too bad for Morena, but I hope she gets more gigs. She has that show for mid-season replacement right?

Oh and longest running north american sci fi show, I am guessing for record.(plus the 200 episodes+)

[ edited by kurya on 2006-08-22 04:40 ]
Resolute. I find the only "nightmare" is the snobbish attitude some people have.
Here's to that.
Were Doctor Who's twenty-six seasons consecutive? No, I don't think they were.

Still, poor Morena Baccarin, Claudia Black and Ben Browder. My heart does go out to Black and Browder more, though. As this is the second series they've been on that seemed to be guaranteed a future that was torn away from them.

Firefly and JLU's treatment both made it clear they, sadly, had no future. Which is arguably worse, but, hey, I never had four seasons of twenty-two episodes to get to know the crew of Serenity. Morena was Black Canary in JLU, right?

And including Serenity? That... doesn't make that much sense. it was a movie. There was never any guarantee of multiple.
Doctor Who's 26 seasons were consecutive, yes. It was an unbroken run of 26 years.
Guess Morena can comiserate with James Marsters, in that he went from Buffy to what could have been a second home for the role of Spike in "Angel"...which got canned midway through the first season he joins up as a major character.

And to voice my 2 cents on the nature of Stargate SG-1: it wasn't meant to be earthshattering television, my dear Resolute. It's entertain escapist fare that used a variety of ideas to look at a number of issues. Maybe not with the skill the various Trek series did or Bablyon 5 or definitely not like Firefly...but I still enjoy it. It's funny (even when it doesn't mean to be sometimes) and it took a shot at exploring the concept of humanity exploring other planets and interacting with other races when we can't even generally get along back home.

I just hope the pilot for Morena's show about Philly transplant specialists gets picked up.

[ETA: No need to sign your post - thanks.]

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2006-08-22 05:32 ]
I think Resolute does have some good points to make. I did enjoy Stargate for the first few seasons, when it had genuinely interesting stories. I liked the fact that the aliens didn't speak English and that the other cultures were well thought out and notably distinct. But the writers became lazy - they ditched all of the good elements and the show turned into generic Sci-Fi humdrum. Today the series is a showcase of cliched writing, mediocre acting, uninspired direction - all wrapped up in pretty visual effects. It's the triumph of form over substance, and it's well past its used-by-date.
Oh and in terms of "is part of the reason it is not a more accepted genre in popular culture", I would never take that as a reason to be counted as a strike to a show. Hm... I only have to mention a certain a series and a movie, which lets face it, isnt part of the mainstream popular culture, while Paris Hilton is really part of mainstream popular culture. Yeah....sorry folks I had to bring in the hilton to make a point.
SG-1 was never the Jossverse, but I do think that RDA's humor made it something special. That's what kept me watching. Once he was gone? So was I. Still, always sorry to see a long-term sci-fi show get cancelled.
Honestly, the only thing that kept me interested in Stargate, was the fact that if the science wasn't so fantastic, i liked the idea of government coverup in the now or near future US. It's like the otherside of the X-files. There were only a few decent shows that really came along and then got cancelled out of no fault of Stargate.


anyway in the end it got cancelled for the same reason most tv shows do viewers and cost.
That and by adding Claudia black and ben browder to make up for RDA not being there didn't help.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Hallowed are the Ori, no more.
My guess would be that Stargate SG-1 is the longest running cable television series.
They were saying it's the longest running US science fiction series - it just overtook The X-Files
That's the first thing people complain about when they hear the record. They've never said it was longer than Doctor Who, they always state "Longest Consecutive Running American Science Fiction Series" or something to that effect.

As much as I love Gina Torres, I think Cleopatra 2525 is more deserving of contempt than something like SG-1. I would have said Lexx, but that's too easy.

Stargate has decent effects, considering the budget and even though I loved B5, the acting was a mixed bag on both of the shows. B5 had it far worse when it came to budget and being ignored by Warner Brothers.
The problem with Stargate is that it's easy to swallow Science Fiction that mainstream audiences can handle, because everything complex is explained to them. Not that there weren't some large story arcs and back story layered in there, but I don't think it deserves disdain simply because it managed to stay alive a long time. I respect them for trying as they did, but would probably enjoy it more if they had the skill to write for women the way Joss, jms and just about any guy on FS did.

I am indifferent to it leaving the air, unlike I was when Farscape and Angel were canned. By the time I saw all of Firefly I knew it never had a prayer on Fox. There are some things that deserve long runs and then there's Star Trek which it seemed anyone would renew until it hit Season 7. At least that wave has ended for now.

I will miss Amanda, Claudia and Ben, but I'm glad they're ending it now before I just lose interest and download only Atlantis and BSG.
I never had any interest in the show until Browder and Black joined the cast. I have never been able to stand RDA. I have found it funny, light escapist fare and I enjoy it immensely. Not everything has to be earth shattering and soul shattering to be good TV. I'll miss it when it is gone and hope that SciFi comes up with a worthy replacement.
save stargate

a world without richard dean anderson is a world not worth living to.

[ edited by Dolphin Tamer on 2006-08-22 07:04 ]
Morena loses another gig.


That bytes a billion.
I'm about to piss alot of people off, but Stargate has never been a great Sci-Fi show.

You're not pissing me off. I watch the show,Resolute, but I'm not a big fan or anything. It is mediocre, and the story lines have grown really, really tired. I can't stand any of the Ori-centered episodes, and I couldn't bear to watch that episode with the kid who can't act who was hitting on Carter. The only bright light in the show is Claudia Black, and she really deserves a better vehicle. I've often opted to watch "Monk" instead of SG1.

I'm going to miss the first episode(s) with Morena in them, because I'll be out of town in a place with no TV.
I'll be out of town in a place with no TV

This confuses and frightens me, Nebula1400. Please tell me this horrible, scary place is not real! ;-)
I'm about to piss alot of people off, but Stargate has never been a great Sci-Fi show.


It entertained me more than Firefly did.
Simon, is that in terms of quantity, quality or both? I'd agree vis-a-vis quantity, but Firefly hit some highs that frankly I've not experienced before, watching a TV show.

Also, my first and continuing reaction to this news is an overwhelming desire to lend Morena a comforting embrace.
This confuses and frightens me, Nebula1400. Please tell me this horrible, scary place is not real! ;-)

Oh, it's real, alright. 9 days of no TV, so if my VCR decides to change its time-settings on me, I may miss a bunch of season finales. I've never had any luck downloading episodes of shows I missed, either.

There are also more bears than telephones where we're staying, and every year somebody hits a moose.
At this point, I would just like to point out that I have been proven totally correct:

I did piss alot of people off!
Simon, is that in terms of quantity, quality or both?


Yes.

I jest. Obviously in terms of quantity, Stargate kills Firefly. But in terms of quality, there are some very good episodes which are Joss worthy. It's a great fun show. It will never be seen in the same light as Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Firefly but it held its own. And if I wanted to relax, I'd rather watch an episode of Stargate than any thing else really.

Stargate didn't take itself seriously, had some wonderful characters and a huge following. Jack could take Mal no problem. And in some fanfics, I gather he actually did.
I bet Pierre Bernard's recliner of rage is not too happy.
SG1 had some of my all-time favorite SF TV episodes in it, including the hilarious "Wormhole X-Treme" episode and the one where Jack and Teal'c keep getting sent back in time 18 hours or so. I didn't think I'd like this show originally because I hated MacGyver, but RDA did a great job. You could tell, though, that he was getting bored at the end of his run.

That being said, the last couple seasons with the Ori as the big bad have been as agonizing as the X-Files' last couple seasons. I'm glad SciFi realized there wasn't much left for the SG-1 team. Maybe after the movie someone will come up with a new angle and fascinate me again.
Sorry everyone, I think this was my fault, as just yesterday I'd watched the 200th episode, really enjoyed it, and decided to give the show another chance. Bit of a bummer really that in 10 seasons, they choose the day I decide to give it a go to cancel it.

I did read a while back that it was being given the title of "longest running SciFi series" and not just "longest running US SciFi series", which makes no sense, 'cos even if you don't count the most recent seasons, or the Sylvester McCoy episodes (which came after a brief cancellation) there's still about 24 consecutive years of Doctor Who.

eddy said:
"I bet Pierre Bernard's recliner of rage is not too happy."


Nope, poor Pierre, we'll need another of those segments now!
I know it has already been clarified that reference to the longevity of 'Stargate SG-1' is in terms of U.S. series, but just because I seem to be obsessed by facts and figures...

The first episode of Dr Who (William Hartnell) was broadcast on 23 December 1963. The last episode of the Colin Baker (sixth doctor) era, the twenty-third season, was broadcast on 6 December 1986. The show was very briefly cancelled at that point but returned with Sylvester McCoy on 7 September 1987. His last episode was broadcast on 6 December 1989.

Edited to add...

I'm sorry for everyone who liked the show. It's always a downer when these things happen. I don't see how the existence of a TV show really hurts people who don't watch it/don't like it. The fact that it lasted for ten seasons gives us all hope. It can be done.

At this point, I would just like to point out that I have been proven totally correct:

I did piss alot of people off!


Is that a good thing?

[ edited by dashboardprophet on 2006-08-22 12:55 ]
It's strange that whenever I hear someone thinks ill of the show, it surprises me. I used to be ignorant and snobbish too ... much like a show titled 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', the premise of the show can repel people.

Stargate SG-1 was ... no, is ... what good TV is made of - it was entertaining, witty at times and extremely funny. It was no Firefly, but Firefly's uniqueness what was killed it, so that's not a huge problem. I've become a huge fan over the years of tentative watching, and I guess, after so many recent cancellations of great shows, I should have expected this. But I didn't.
I was never into Stargate but big sympathy for those who were. And also sympathy for the cast and crew, I gather that they were given the news just before gathering to celebrate 200 eps.

Not nice .

Anyway, remembering how bereft I was when *my* favourite show was cancelled I'm making a big pot of tea for the Stargate fans , and maybe some chocolate biscuits . Tea and biscuits make everything better.
In a sci-fi special about SG-1 a year or so ago Amanda Tapping said a few times that by its tenth season it would be the longest running US sci-fi show. It made me smile because I (and presumably they) saw The Doctor's long shadow looming over all ;). Strongly suspect that record's his to keep given today's TV market.

Obviously I don't agree with Resolute. Though I think the last few seasons have been patchier and did miss RDA, SG-1 was a great, fun show. It actually examines pretty much all of the issues that the best sci-fi touches on though without the kind of po-faced solemnity that some shows (X-Files and even B5 much as I loved it) bring to the mix (in fairness when the X-Files brought the humour they really brought it but of most of B5's attempts we will not speak ;). And if it perhaps uses too many of the familiar old sci-fi tropes it at least tries to give them a fresh spin.

It played (past tense already *sniff* ;) with its format more than most other shows (certainly more than most sci-fi shows with the extremely notable exception of 'Farscape') in episodes like 'Wormhole Extreme', 'Window of Opportunity', 'Citizen Joe' and just this week '200', looked at cloning, the nature of consciousness and identity, slavery and more recently religious extremism and it did it all with a knowing smile on its face and a song in its heart.

Even with the lightness of tone though it still delivered some top notch drama with real emotional resonance in episodes like 'Meridian', 'Heroes Pt 2' and even early on in episodes like 'Solitudes'.

I for one (of many) will miss it a lot though i'm glad they know in advance and hope S10 reaches the standards of the very best previous episodes so that they go out on a well deserved high (and hey, given the gist of '200' maybe there's some chance of the much talked about movie - of the series, of the movie ;).
Well it must have had some qualites, because all over the net looser trolls are crawling out of the woodwork and are busy sptting on the show, hoping to hurt other people.


Nice spin about Morens gig going donw the drain btw ;)
The funny thing is, I've heard Morena joke that any TV series she stars in gets cancelled. Nobody tell her about this news.
Ben 'Jonah' Browder must be thinking along pretty similar lines too ;).
Very true. I can't beleive they just aired an episode which referenced Firefly's cancellation directly, too.
Wow. Didn't see that coming.

I can only imagine that Morena made such a good villain that they had no choice but to let her kill off the entire cast, thus ending the show.

Never been a fan, but using my awesome imagination, I can imagine what it's like to have a show I love cancelled, and I sympathize with those who *are* fans.
Well, current news has it that the producers are looking for an alternate outlet for SG-1 and given it's history for avoiding the bullet I wouldn't count it out yet.

Having said that, maybe it is time for SG-1 to end. I absolutely love that show and I've been enjoying the new cast a great deal but ten seasons is a nice number to go out on and I'd rather see it end on a high then be run into the ground. My first choice would be to see a second spinoff show begin centered around Mitchell and Vala (I really want to see more of those two) and given that they very nearly did that last year (season nine of SG-1 was almost season one of Stargate Command, for those who don't know) I don't see any reason why they can't do that this time around.

Also, for those who don't like the show, that's fair enough. There has never been a show on television that has suited every single potential viewer. Personally I've never understood the love of Doctor Who so I can relate. No need to be so glad that the show is likely ending though. Some of us actually like it.
I have never seen SG1, although I plan to check it out on DVD sometime. I hear it has good episodes and mediocre episodes. I will not prematurely pass judgement, having not seen it yet.

I will say that ten seasons is an accomplishment! This is not a time for sadness that it's been cancelled, but for joy that it has lasted so long and done so much. I cannot think how much I wish some of my favorite shows could have lasted even half that long! (Psst... SciFi... bring back FarScape... you need another show, right?)

Honestly, no show can go on forever. This one lived to a ripe old age few shows survive until (whether they end naturally or by cancellation). So I state again, it's a cause for joy.
Ah, SG-1 entertained endlessly and I'm sad to see it go. Then again, at 10 seasons it had a great run and there's even talk of MGM shipping it elsewhere or it becomming a direct-to-dvd show. Time will only tell, I guess. I'm hoping they'll wrap up the current Ori storyline (which I actually kinda like, even if it's not very original) by the end of the season.

As for longest running sci-fi show... how many episodes of Dr. Who were there per season? I'm not sure how these things get counted, but with the relative sizes of an American tv season compared to a British one, doesn't SG-1 have more episodes? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Af for Morena: it's sad she loses another gig. But she'll be back, so there's that.
dashboardprophet -- Doctor Who wasn't cancelled during its original run. It went on 'hiatus' (heh) for eighteen months. It returned with 'Trial of a Timelord' after which Colin was told his services would no longer be required which is when McCoy was hired (although the scripts for the first series were largely written without a fixed timelord in mind). An unbroken run of 23 odd years is still pretty good going though.
I saw Michael Shanks at a con this summer and he seemed, well, a little tired of his character. He laughed at the number of times he had died, (an audience menber said 28) and how often he entered a scene with his hands tied behind his back, and was pushed to his knees.
Those who watch the show may mourn. I'm not sure all the cast will.
GVH -- Doctor Who's seasons ran wildly from 50 odd when it first started down to thirteen towards the end. There were about seven hundred episodes and about two hundred stories.

[Anyone know if Joss has gotten around to seeing the new version yet?]
feelinglistless - he saw the pilot for the 'remodeled' series ("Rose"). Yep. I'm THAT much of a Joss!Nerd.
feelinglistless, check. Guess those Brit-seasons weren't so short back in the day, then. I've only seen the revamped series myself. Also: ouch, Joss only saw "Rose"? I thought that episode was dreadfull. Almost put me off Who for good.

Still, despite Who beating it by a huge stretch, SG-1's run is pretty impressive. Something the fans can be proud of.
Not a big fan of SG-1.
Just wondering if "canceled" is the right word for this case?

Is it like Angel or Firefly, cancelled before their time or like Buffy, ended, when it was suppose to be ended.
feelinglistless, many thanks for the correction. I should have remembered that the gap (not cancellation) came during the Colin Baker era, not between the end of CB's time as the doctor and the arrival of Sylvester McCoy.
Horrible news. Was one the few shows, together with Atlantis, to me that was worth watching. Oh, well, at least there's BtVS season 8 to look forward to.
GVH, Doctor Who had comparatively long 'seasons' for a British show but until the new series started in 2005 episodes were usually only 25 minutes long (apart from specials etc.).

No matter how you cut it though at 720+ episodes, a 23 season unbroken run (arguably 26) and something like 350 hours of television, Doctor Who is far and away the longest running TV sci-fi series ever (no-matter what Sci-Fi wire says ;).

Lioness, yeah, I think that's probably true. Michael Shanks left for (most of) a season (one of the many times he died ;) because he was bored and felt under-utilised and I think the majority of the cast will see it as sad mixed with liberating (once they get over the initial shock). As per the old cliche though they apparently get on really well so I think they'll maybe miss the camaraderie as much as the show itself.

(assuming SG-1 does actually end i'd be surprised if we didn't see a few guest spots on Atlantis though)

Numfar PTB, a lot of people are preferring to see it as 'not renewed' rather than cancelled. Smells a bit like spin to me though since the creators and most of the cast were happy to come back (again Shanks had said he may not return for S11 should it happen) and didn't intend to end the show.

Either way, as others have said, 10 years is a hell of a run and something for all concerned to be proud of.
dashboardprophet -- that said Michael Grade has since muddied the water somewhat by suggesting that the series had been cancelled after all but was brought back because of the public outcry -- although that contradicts his statements of the time that it was simply being 'rested'. Hmm...
I would love to see Shanks in Atlantis. Already from the start of the new show, I thought Daniel belonged more there than in the milky way.
Happy to see all the SG-1 love here. Like I said earlier, I've been a fan since the beginning. SG has been a lot of fun and I've enjoyed it tremendously. The last couple of years haven't been a good representation of what it was in it's prime. With RDA cutting back his hours and then leaving the show and introducing new characters it's taken the show awhile to find it's footing again and I think it was doing that this season. I'll miss the show when it's gone But I am happy that they will be finishing out this season and hopefully wrapping up the storyline.

And my favortie episode of all time is the "Groundhog Day" type one where Jack and Teal'c kept repeating the same day over and over again. It was so much fun!

Koos, I also wondered about the possibility of Shanks character going to Atlantis.
I saw the movie a number of years ago and thought it was mediocre.

I am not sure if I have ever seen an entire episode of Stargate on TV. The bits and pieces of the show I have seen while flipping through channels did not make me want to linger. *shrugs nonchalantly*

Someone mentioned Cleopatra 2525...:) If there is a more absurd show anywhere in the world I do not want to know about it. :)
Sucks for Morena. I'm thinkin' she'll get another gig though.
My impression from what I've seen of it is that it was often paint by numbers generic sci-fi, but when it pushed the envelope it achieved some remarkable eps. As such it is a shame to see it go, but at the same time it had 10 years, so its not like it was cut down in its prime. The occasional-greatness puts it in the same category as B5, which was occasionally brilliant, but also reminded me of why people have knee-jerk reactions to sci-fi.
Well, in fairness, people have knee-jerk reactions to lots of things provided they're the kind of people with jerky knees.

If you're going to watch a genre show you have to accept some genre conventions. It's kind of like watching a rom-com and immediately flicking over because it's all lovey-dovey. Well, yeah. That's what happens in rom-coms. Surely it's the stuff between tropes that makes a show worth watching or not ?

(though I think maybe B5 was a special case since i'm a lifelong sci-fi fan and yet still stopped watching during season 1 owing to it having a higher cringe factor than 'The Office' but totally unintentionally. When *stentorian wooden delivery* Sinclair! left I started watching on a friend's advice and really started to enjoy it though it still had some cringey stuff largely thanks to JMS' 'dialogue')
There's a difference between genre conventions and unimaginative follow through or phoning in entire arcs or doing things because its whats expected. There aren't really any new stories, its all in how well its told, regardless of genre. Its just that SG-1 and B5 in a lot of instances presented things in a way that told people who had knee-jerk reactions that they were right.

B5 S1 /shiver but S2/S3 had moments of greatness (a dear friend kept insisting it was awesome and it was a tv dead period for me, so I persisted). All in all, though I am not the knee-jerky type, B5 made me cringe... a lot.
Also, my first and continuing reaction to this news is an overwhelming desire to lend Morena a comforting embrace.


You need news to generate such a desire? Hmm. Interesting concept, Napua.
Hah, yeah, that's my first and continuing reaction to being awake ;).

zeitgeist, ah, get you. Seems like we just have a difference in taste in that case since I don't agree that SG-1 really fell into that trap mainly because of the sense of humour they brought to most of the cliches (though I largely agree about B5, despite enjoying it and feeling like it did some genuinely new stuff as far as TV sci-fi goes).

Does SG-1 have mediocre episodes ? Of course. And (among other flaws) there's virtually no character development and a lot of the plots are recycled. But, just as with the mediocre Buffy episodes, there's usually (to me) something worthwhile in each one, even if it's just a little throwaway one-liner or even an ironic tilt of the head by one of the characters. Not everyone's going to agree of course, (thankfully) that's the way of the world.
I wonder if Sci Fi's decision to discontinue SG-1 (there, found a good word for it) after the conclusion of the current season has anything to do with a news that ran like a month ago, about Dean Devlin, interested on developing new sequels for the original movie, and ignoring everything estabilished in the show(s) for the last decade.

If I'm not mistaken the SG-1 series did kick off from the point where the original movie ended, but it sure delved into places and plots that the original producers and writers didn't exactly plan to do it, and if they plan to revive the franchise in the theathers again, maybe that contributed to the end of SG-1, if not creatively, maybe through some sort of contratual determination.
No, I don't think so. The decision to move ahead with those movies is MGM's decision. Sci-Fi doesn't have anything to do with it.
There are some things that deserve long runs and then there's Star Trek which it seemed anyone would renew until it hit Season 7. At least that wave has ended for now.



Star Trek, except for Enterprise, and even including Voyager (although its borderline), was better written, acted, concieved, etc. than about 99% of televised sci-fi, and a great deal of TV drama in general. Although not a fan, I respect B5 and Farscape enough to put them in that 1%, and Firefly definitely gets in there, but SG-1 has always been a joke. Star Trek TOS, TNG, DS9 and even Voyager all deserved their multiple seasons. Hell, the first three Star Treks are amongst the best tv of all time, so I really don't know what you are talking about.

[ edited by ajay42 on 2006-08-22 19:03 ]
Seems like we just have a difference in taste in that case since I don't agree that SG-1 really fell into that trap mainly because of the sense of humour they brought to most of the cliches


Well, as I've only seen very little SG-1, my opinion isn't really fully formed. I may give it a go at some point as I generally agree with your tv thoughts.

TOS, TNG, DS9 and even Voyager all deserved their multiple seasons


TOS was great for its time and I still look on it fondly, TNG had some good/great stuff and also miserably bad episodes, DS9 was amazing, mostly, Voyager... meh. Enterprise had some good stuff, but I gave up on it after initially being excited about it and only came back to watch Jeff Combs at the end :) I do think its time for Trek to rest for a bit again, although Manny Coto did a lot for it towards the end.
It's kind of amusing to see how apologetic many folks get for mediocre sci-fi and fantasy. Mediocre non-genre dramas don't receive nearly the amount of support.

Not a criticism, just an observation. I'm sure I've defended both varieties of mediocre TV.
Mediocre from your point of view. Not for others. Please remember that.
SG1's writing wasn't the best I have seen but it was on par most of the time. I simply like it. They would never really make me jump out of my seat out of joy, but it also would never anger me. It was consistent writing, within certain limits. I agree though that Star Trek was better, even Voyager (except Enterprise).
Mediocre not just from my point of view, but admitted by some of the folks defending it as well. Sorry, should've been more clear there--folks will defend sci-fi shows they watch that they agree are mediocre but enjoyable on some level anyway, far more readily and loudly than those who watch straight dramas they view as mediocre. It's just amusing is all, though not that surprising, how genre material inspires stronger "loyalty" I guess would be the word, and more vocal fanbases.

[ edited by Kris on 2006-08-22 20:29 ]
Well, quite, Simon. If we thought it was mediocre we wouldn't be defending it kris (i'm not a person who needs to have sci-fi on TV no matter what its quality since there're already way more sci-fi novels than I can possibly read out there and a great number of movies I haven't seen yet too). Admitting the limitations of something you enjoy is not the same as saying it's mediocre.

Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth ajay42 but possibly ErynTzun means that regardless of quality Star Trek seemed to get a free pass from both viewers and network execs for quite a while.

Don't get me wrong I became a huge TNG fan, liked the original series well enough and think that DS9 at its best was one of the more inventive and gutsy TV shows (note not just sci-fi TV shows) to come along in quite a while but (IMO) the first 2-3 seasons of Next Gen were, with a few exceptions, pretty poor. Likewise Voyager which IMO featured just as many recycled plots and was just as lacking in character development as SG-1 (with the possible exception of Seven) but with pretty much none of the laughs or sense of fan involvement (though in fairness I didn't watch it regularly after season 3 ish).

Enterprise started well and had some good ideas (it was great to finally see people that weren't all superhumanly competent for instance) but very quickly lost its way (the Temporal Cold War idea has to be one of the biggest mis-steps in recent TV history) and ended with such a huge kick in the teeth to anyone still watching it almost beggars belief. And yet they continued to be given chances to improve. Seems to be somewhat different to the way most shows are treated (in TNG and DS9's cases this was A Good Thing, in Voyager and Enterprises's, not so much, IMO).
Star Trek, except for Enterprise, and even including Voyager (although its borderline), was better written, acted, concieved, etc. than about 99% of televised sci-fi, and a great deal of TV drama in general.

I think a vast majority of Star Trek was simply dross. Awful concepts, dire stories and mostly shoddy writing. I'd exclude DS9 from that, as DS9 (at times) was wonderful.

The beauty, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. People stopped watching Star Trek so it got cancelled, and Stargate ran for 10 years.

Personally, I think whenever a series gets to 10 years old, I think it should end. Simply because history has shown once you get that far in, the wheels come off.
Ok, I think one has to accept that different people have different tastes. Zeitgeist and others talked about knee-jerk reaction to Babylon 5 and Sg-1. For me I loved Babylon 5, thought it was great, but those are my tastes. And Sg-1 I didnt expect ground-breaking sci-fi but thoroughly enjoyed the humour in it.

And for people talking about Star Trek. I loved both TNG and DS9 but didnt like certain elements in both series. I tolerated but I really didn't like Voyager.

One has to realize, that while people slam other shows, there are people out there who feel the same way about Firefly, Buffy, Angel, so its all a matter of taste.
Exactly, kurya. I haven't really seen enough Stargate to comment. I've certainly not seen episodes in order, just here or there. That said, I did see one episode which made me go "wow" on TV once.

When it comes down to it, as much as people rib Charmed (which has, on occasion, included me), that ran for 7 years. People watched it.

Of course, I still totally reserve the right to mock Fear Factor.

One thing I will add is that it's SUCH a difference to sit down and watch a show in episode order, and get to know the characters and such from the beginning. I know people who love SG-1, but hate Firefly, but they've only seen the odd episode of Firefly. A lot of the reason people relate to shows is because they relate to the characters, and if you haven't seen the characters in context you loose that.
I'm sorry to see SG-1 cancelled before Morena's episode(s) were aired, because I would have liked to see her on the show (and with Claudia Black), but I can't feel that the show is any great loss. I never found it easy to watch SG-1, and I really did try because I loved Ben Browder and Claudia Black in Farscape, but even so it was ten thousand times better (IMO) than SG-Atlantas.
I'm glad to see that Sci-fi is coming up with some good new programming, because I think EUReKA is wonderful, and I wish they would decide to green light a Firefly mini series.
They will still air season 10 episodes. This just means there won't be a season 11.
Yeah, embers, in this sense, 'not renewed' actually does make more sense than 'cancelled' since all the remaining episodes will be made and aired (so Morena will still be on TV again starting in the very next episode in fact).

I like Atlantis too (admittedly largely because of Mckay) but I think i'll stay strategically out of the battle to defend that one ;).

gossi, that's exactly right. Small facial expressions, riffs on past plot-points/lines that characters have said and quite a lot of the humour depend to a large extent on seeing previous episodes in order and also on watching other sci-fi/mainstream shows (as when a season 9 episode has a throwaway line at the expense of BSG or with O'Neill's frequent allusions to 'The Simpsons' of which RDA is a big fan) as well as being aware of behind the scenes stuff (like Chris Judge's jocular ongoing annual battle with the creators to be able to grow hair which Teal'c finally gets in Season 9). I guess missing these would detract from any viewer's enjoyment of the show.
Stargate's getting a lot of love, even on AICN, where if you mention the show you're labeled a traitor to the sci-fi community.
I bet Pierre Bernard's recliner of rage is not too happy.


Yes! It's been so long since the last Recliner of Rage. I hope they do a segment on that. Probably not this week think I think it's all repeats so Conan can prep for the Emmys.

As for SG-1 Don't really care for the show. Same for Atlantis. I watched it for a bit after Angel got canned and there wasn't any good sci-fi on TV but then gradually lost interest and got irritated by the fact that they always state the odvious and exposit way too much. Then they sandwiched the eps between Firefly and BSG(which ninnyfies all) and it just paled in comparison.

I <3 Conan!
I enjoyed SG1. It was sometimes really good and often mediocre, but there's nothing actually wrong with mediocre entertainment, if it makes you feel better at the end of the day... you can love great scifi and enjoy SG1 too. Fine Belgian chocolates are delicious, but sometimes what you really want is a Snickers.

It would be nice if they could find it another home, but it won't be a tragedy if they don't. 10 years, man. I wish Firefly had gotten half as much.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of the quality of SG1, the show deserves a lot of respect and congratulatons for staying on the air for 10 years. The show obviously struck a cord with a lot of viewers which is the reason it lasted this long. That's a great testiment for any show and SG1 deserves a lot of accolades. Admittedly, I am not a huge fan of the show mostly because I haven't watched that many episodes but I have no problem paying the show, it's producers, and cast the respect and congratulations they deserve.
I was never a huge Stargate SG-1 fan, though I liked the movie a lot. Richard Dean Anderson kept things amusing in spots. One episode had a nice little dig on the implausibility of Signs, namely that, if you're an alien who is mortally afraid of water, would it make sense to fly across the galaxy to conquer a planet covered in the stuff, where the natives have pipes of it running everywhere?

SG-1's cast felt a little too small for the kind of complicated interpersonal dynamics that keep me around. The acting was hit-or-miss. A lot of the manipulation of alien technology just kept me thinking "Sleestax." Once Anderson went and Duchovny'd his way out of the shower, I knew it was doomed.

I'm a little sad for Morena, but more so for Ben Browder and Claudia Black.
The world record accomplishment is that SG: 1 is the longest running -scripted- cable series.

As for it's cancellation, I'm sorry to see it go. Sometimes you need a corny block of bad sci-fi to kill time with on a Friday night.

Nothing like a raging game of D&D while watching the Sci-Fi channel. *koff*

Yeah, okay. Like you guys aren't just as big a geek as I am. ;)
hmmmm D&D while watching Sci-Fi, I never have done that... hm... actually we may have a few times ;)

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