Okay, funny video.

Now, somebody please tell me, out there somewhere, is the deleted scene from "Serenity," after they all view Caron's message, and Mal and Inara leave the ship, go outside, and have their comfort moment together, because they can't believe what they just saw.

It was written beautifully in the script, and I think it made it onto the overseas DVDs. I have the R1 release, so I've never seen it.

pat32082 | August 29, 23:19 CET

It's not on any of the DVDs, pat. I'm not sure why it was cut - it was in one of the very early cuts of the film (back at the beginning of 2005) so it was filmed.

Universal Home Entertainment really do need to put out a new version of the Serenity DVD. They'd make a load of money from fan orders at least, and they have another DVD or two of extra content available, so you know, it seems odd not to.

gossi | August 30, 00:49 CET

Aww, really? There's a still of it and everything in the companion. I really loved that scene, and it was what? A quick 30 seconds? Joss could've even cut the dialogue, as you didn't need it.

I was fine with all the other cutting of the Mal/Inara, just Inara stuff, but that was a great moment for their relationship as it wasn't too much, and it also worked as a nice bridge for their story in the movie, that got them both to that moment at the end. That, "maybe I will stay..."

And agreed. They need to put out a special edition.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-29 22:59 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 00:57 CET

I thought it worked in the movie. In fact, that, and the Mal/Inara "Why did you leave?" exchange were two of my favourite moments in the film, the first time I saw it. I wouldn't say I was annoyed at Joss (hello) when they were cut, but it did bother me. I know, I know - pacing - but to me personally, it helped cement why Inara was in the film, plus it made me have more of a connection with Mal at that late point in the film. In the final cut, I wasn't so sure why Inara was there, I have to admit.

And hey, I'm totally bitchin'. I loved the film really, and let's face it, I couldn't have made better. Or, indeed, anything at all. But I'd sure like to see that scene back in the deleted scenes.

gossi | August 30, 01:05 CET

Well, she was there because if she'd stayed at the Training House she would've been killed by the Operative, or used as leverage against Mal. Or, did you mean, why Inara was in the film at all?

Because, aside from being bait for plot reasons, she helped to explain why Mal was in the headspace that he was. Bad times, coupled with the loss of the woman he loved and his moral compass in Book.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-29 23:16 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-29 23:19 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 01:14 CET

In the film at all. Obviously, I understand why she's there - main character - but in the context of the film as it stood in the final cut from an outsider perspective, it's a little unclear. It's, of course, totally spilt milk anyway (and one of the reasons I could never been an editor. I'd have kept bits like the above in for selfish reasons). If there happens to ever be a sequel, I think people could understand a bit more about Inara, at a guess.

A little story, actually. Lisa, Serenity's editor, was at the premiere of Serenity in Edinburgh. She's actually one of the people I really wanted to meet, as I had seen bits of the process from early cut to final cut and basically wanted to say, "Dude, that must of been tough. But it's much better now than it was before". Because that's true. I didn't go to the after show party thing as I didn't want to actually be the fan who came across as jumping out of bushes at actors and such (as much as I make the stalking jokes, they are jokes). So I totally went to sleep in my room instead. Of course, by the time it got to the London premiere I went, as you know, I was drunk. Sadly, there was no Lisa. But should she ever read random Whedonesque topics - uhm, well done. And excuse my bitching above, I am a selfish person in my core - yay me.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-08-29 23:24 ]

gossi | August 30, 01:19 CET

That video is insane. And yet it does seem oddly natural. Therefore, I am also insane, therefore ... this is what going mad must feel like ;).

Pretty sure i've seen some sort of clip of the bit outside the research vessel. Maybe in one of the documentaries ? Or maybe it was just a still (since I don't remember it having any sound).

I can live without that bit but the quiet moment between Mal and Inara on Serenity was really effective. Wish there could've been a way to save it. My core must also be of the selfish persuasion gossi ;).

Saje | August 30, 01:36 CET

Change your surname to Selfish and we shall breed and form an entirely new race of Selfish humans who take over the world for no apparent reason. In fact, that idea is so good for a TV show I'm totally selling it to FOX in a reality format. For crap ideas, press 2.

Saje, the bit you speak of is in the gag reel, sans music, with dancing Fillion.

gossi | August 30, 01:43 CET

The montage made me think again, what's missing from Mal & Inara's non-relationship? This time I'm guessing, respect from Mal for Inara. There's tenderness and affection, but no direct expression of respect that I can recall. Even the indirect ones -- like defending her honor in Shindig -- are ambiguous. He thinks the bad guy has no right to talk to her like that, while she notes that it's not very different from the way he talks about her all the time. Clearly Mal respects, as Our Mrs. Reynolds showed, women's rights in general. But did he ever express respect for Inara as an individual? (Some might think that his acknowledgement of her power to discombobulate him might be an implicit expression of respect, but not me. He seems to consider it a flaw in her.)

He looks down on her morally and up at her socially because of her profession, but not as an equal, as a thief might look at a prostitute. He's more than willing to come to the rescue and provide comfort -- to be the hero when the damsel's distressed. But I can't recall a recognition by him that she is one of the heroes, too. Hmm. Perhaps there was an arc a-coming.

Pointy | August 30, 01:44 CET

You know, when I first saw Serenity... and at the end Mal tells River about how love keeps us flying or whatever... I immediately started singing in my head "love lifts us up where we belong!" hehe.

fortunateizzi | August 30, 01:56 CET

Pointy - there was an episode planned which dealt with exactly that. Tim Minear broke it down at a screen writing thing last year (or earlier this year, I can't remember). It had all the usual - Mal calling Inara a whore, a big fight, but ended with Mal showing respect to Inara in words and actions. And the long due smack down between Mal and Zoe. And I want to curse FOX right now so I'll stop typing.

The early draft of Serenity which leaked out (but not online) recently also had a section which dealt with Inara's feeling and actions, contrasted to Mal's feelings and actions. It's difficult to read Joss' intentions from it, as it's not overly polished (and ultimately, didn't work), but I had the impression from it Inara isn't actually as removed (different) from Mal as people may think.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-08-30 00:00 ]

gossi | August 30, 01:57 CET

Gossi, could you tell us what the smackdown between Mal and Zoe was about? And if so, would you please?

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 00:03 ]

Pointy | August 30, 02:02 CET

the bit you speak of is in the gag reel, sans music, with dancing Fillion.

Aha, that could be why it didn't have quite the same emotional resonance as the other deleted scene.

I'd have to change more than my surname if we were to breed gossi ;) but I think that idea has legs, lots of legs. Like a reality spider. Only problem, there's something familiar about the idea of the world being full of selfish humans. Can't quite put my finger on why yet ...

Pointy, he includes her in the plan in 'Trash'. He usually includes her in the decision making process in as much as he ever allows discussion on his boat. I also don't agree that he sees the 'discombobulation factor' as her flaw either though, as is natural when someone makes us feel things we don't want to, we tend to blame them rather than look inward. Not right maybe but only too human.

I do agree though that his attitude towards Inara is pretty ambiguous. He seems to respect her as a human being but not her choice of career yet Nandi though a common prostitute apparently earns his respect far more. Personally, i'd say it's because Nandi isn't kidding herself (as Mal sees it) about her position in the world (lowly though it may be). She knows who she is and has had to fight hard to get to that realisation. Mal sees Inara as feeling she's free when in fact she's still a slave to convention and society. He sees her as guilty of fooling herself and possibly hypocrisy as well, hence the lack of respect.

[ edited by Saje on 2006-08-30 00:05 ]

Saje | August 30, 02:03 CET

Pointy - spoilers follow from unfilmed FF. This is from Buffista's Allyson;


Inara has yet another fight with Mal, in which he says something especially cruel like "I’m not going to get on my knees and kiss your hand like your a lady. You’re a whore."

Inara has a sort of chemical weapon in case of rape, so whomever attacks will die immediately after raping her. (I’m not saying this all as eloquently, I’m pre-coffee).

She’s kidnapped by reavers in an attack. Mal and crew go in to the reaver ship to save her.

What they find is the entire crew of reavers, all dead, and Inara huddled on the floor, beaten half to death.

Later, in Inara’s shuttle, it’s only Zoe there, guarding her silently. Mal tried to come in, and Zoe opens a can of whup ass and tells Mal no fucking way is anyone coming in.

Mal gets past Zoe (yeah, right) and walks over to Inara’s bed where she’s curled up and post-traumatic. Gets on his knees, and kisses her hand.

Saje - Reality Spider has a certain ring to it.

gossi | August 30, 02:11 CET

Ring ? Hmm, reality spider boxing ? Nah, that's probably a daft idea. How would you get the gloves on them ? There may be an angle there though.

Pointy, there's also a very good (IMO) fan-fic based on the idea called Ice in Crystal.

I think it would have been a very dark story but incredible drama and it's a shame it'll very likely never see the light of day in fully realised form.

Saje | August 30, 02:20 CET

Thank you for engaging me on my terms, Saje. (Cue theme from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly)

I think there's a difference between including Inara in the plan and seeing her as one of the heroes. Jayne's always included in the plan, and respected for his contribution, but not viewed as heroic by Mal (or anyone outside of that one crappy little town).

The reason I think Mal blames Inara for his discombobulation is that he says, "You fog things up. You always have. You spin me about." This sounds like he's blaming her for the power her words have on him, and as if he's denying that the power of her words has a legitimate basis.

Mal may have no problem with Nandi because she sees Mal as he sees himself -- as a selfless rescuer of damsels in distress. Inara demands respect. She knows she's one of the rescuers, and she accomplishes her rescues through the skill and social power that she developed as a companion.

(Allow me a moment to deplore the whole concept of the companion. As a feminist. And a Catholic. And for the whole eww factor.)

I think Inara could argue that she is not fooling herself any more than Mal is fooling himself. They both do immoral things for a living, but they both have codes that govern their behavior. She sees the nobility in him. When does he see the nobility in her?

(Answer: At the end of the unaired, unfilmed, possibly unwritten episode of the unfulfilled series. Deep sigh.)

Thank you, gossi, for the invisible revelations.

Oops. Just read them. They don't really prove my point, since Mal might be acting out of pity and compassion, rather than genuine respect.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 00:37 ]

Pointy | August 30, 02:34 CET

He sees her as guilty of fooling herself and possibly hypocrisy as well, hence the lack of respect.

I agree with this, as Mal tells Inara as much in Shindig, when he's ranting about the hypocrisy of Atherton Wing acting as though he's "won" Inara instead of paid for her company.

I'm glad that the scene outside Caron's shuttle was cut, for a reason that is suggested by Joss' incredible commentary track on the movie: it wasn't necessary. We know that Mal is knocked in the gut by what he's seen, we know that Inara is, too. They don't need to say out loud, "Wow, I really need to wrap my head around this."

Also, if Mal leans on Inara for support here, it kind of lessens the turning point of his "hero's journey" of going from being the cynical, anchorless jerk who has shot 3 unarmed men in the last few days and threatened to kill any crew member who didn't help convert his ship into a Reaver look-alike to being the Mal who fought in the war and believed in something so much that he was willing to send his people to death when necessary and who can in all sincerity make that "St. Crispin's Day" speech about aiming to misbehave and make his crew know he means it and inspire all of them to follow him to almost certain death. *finally takes a breath*

Saje, good reference to Ice in Crystal. I agree, it's really dark, and also really good!

And I fear the Saje!gossi child. Really, I do. ;-)

ETA: Pointy and I posted about the same time. And your point, Pointy -- "Mal might be acting out of pity and compassion, rather than genuine respect" -- I agree with. It's one of the reasons the plot as described by Mr. Minear never really appealed to me, although as fleshed out in Ice in Crystal seems to give respect to Inara for having accepted the consequences of difficult choices (even if Mal might still be acting from compassion, pity and also guilt).

[ edited by billz on 2006-08-30 00:49 ]

billz | August 30, 02:38 CET

I agree with you, Saje, about Mal's respect of Inara. I also think, that he's okay with Nandi not just because she doesn't build up her profession to be more than it ultimately is, but because she does seem to like it, and she's carved out a pleasant life for herself, for the most part.

Inara, on the other hand, Mal thinks (and so do I), is doing something she really doesn't enjoy. She's good at it, but the act she puts on for clients, she also uses on herself, to convince herself that this is what she wants. What she does makes her clients happy, but it doesn't make her happy (as I think her first scene in the pilot shows).

And Mal's mostly mad at her for staying in something she hates, and she's stayed in it for the status, and aboard Serenity, to give herself a reason to hide from Mal, and maybe to spite him.

Did that make any sense?

ETA: re: the cut scene, I guess I respectfully disagree. :-) He was the anchorless jerk who wasn't turning to anyone, or relying on anything except himself, because he felt it was his weight to carry. That small moment of leaning on Inara would've spoke volumes. The speech showed he was ready to do the "right thing," but that would've shown he was capable, of sharing mutual support with someone who needed it, as well as wanted to give it. And it would've again, futhered the story of their relationship, as shown earlier in the film.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 00:45 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 00:52 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 00:53 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 02:44 CET

And Mal's mostly mad at her for staying in something she hates, and she's stayed in it for the status

Good point, pat32082, although Tim and Joss certainly did a lot of hinting on the Firefly commentaries that Inara's secret past might also have contributed to both her continuing to work as a companion, and her not liking the gig anymore. (Although, she sure seemed to enjoy teaching the little potentials all about whorin' being a companion in the cut scenes in Serenity, didn't she?! Maybe she still likes being a companion, just not all the clients she, er, well, you know, companions.)

And, OK, we do respectfully disagree on the cut scene. You make some good points, definitely, but to me it wouldn't have had that kind of meaning IMO -- IMO it would've just looked like Inara "fogged him up" again, instead of Mal looking within and rediscovering his belief, as Book had urged him to. Again -- just my own take on how I might have reacted to the scene (and kind of did, reading it in the Serenity Companion, heh).

billz | August 30, 02:59 CET

Pointy said

I think Inara could argue that she is not fooling herself any more than Mal is fooling himself

Oh, there's no doubt that Mal's fooling himself too and about the same thing as Inara, IMO. He also thinks he's free when in fact he's trapped, running on the spot until he can come to terms with what happened in Serenity valley (and thinking about it, Nandi actually has the freedom - in her own way - that Mal only thinks he has, another possible reason for him respecting her).

The 'fog things up speech' sounded, to me, more like Mal not being able to admit that he needs Inara. Half trying to push her away, half sort of letting slip the effect she has on him (he's effectively saying 'You make me giddy. You make me want to be a different man' and given that at that point the man he's become is stunted and desperate, in some ways that's kind of a back-door compliment). He's convinced himself that he's better off without love (or at least without romantic love) and all the complications it causes and Inara is that love to him (and the complications).

FWIW, BTW, I don't have a problem with the companion idea in principle, just seems like another choice to me, but it's very difficult to know if becoming a companion is actually an uncoerced choice (especially in Inara's case) or if some trauma has 'forced' a lot of women to take that path so the implementation is more problematic.

billz, totally agree about the muddying of Mal's arc with that little scene. Even though it's a nice little 'ship bit I think the film's better without it

(and thanks for giving the Saje/Gossi hybrid an exclamation point in its name. Tis a thing of power, so it is ;)

pat32082, yeah, that's a good point about Inara not enjoying the life she's in. I wonder if Mal sort of sees himself in her without realising it and is maybe transferring some of his self-contempt onto her ?

(it's true that the Inara scene softens Mal but I think at that point he shouldn't be softer, he should be a sort of tempered version of Serenity Valley Mal - now there's an action figure name if ever I heard one ;) - and so, yep, I think we do respectfully disagree ;)

Saje | August 30, 03:11 CET

I love Shindig. Mal contradicts himself rapidly.

"While this... the lie of it... that
man parading you on his arm as if he
actually won you, as if he loves you,
and everyone going along with it."

"He treats you like an ornament.
Other men look at you and discuss if
you're worth the cost. The women
talk behind their fans, picturing you
with their husbands."

Which is it, Mal? Are people looking at Atherton as if he's in love, or as if he's purchased an expensive ornament? Is the problem with Inara being on Atherton's arm that she is fooling everyone, or that she is fooling no one? I think the script is trying to suggest that Mal's real objections are not his stated objections, since his stated objections are mutually exclusive.

And while it is clear that there are aspects of Inara's job that don't make her happy (as there are aspects of Mal's that don't make him happy) I think she has a lot of respect for her profession. For instance, in Jaynestown, she takes seriously the "sacred prostitute" (again, a big feminist Catholic eww) role, clearly taking pride in "making a man" out of the bad guy's son in more than one way, since she not only sexually initiates him, but leads him to stand up to his father. It is possible not to like all your clients (suppose they were TV execs, for example) and still respect your work.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 02:21 ]

Pointy | August 30, 03:13 CET

Well also, as I said, my liking of that scene comes too from seeing it as the missing piece of their journey through the film.

It's established that Inara was on the ship, and left partly because of Mal, because he didn't say what he was supposed to.

Kaylee: Cap'n wants you to stay...
Inara: That man doesn't know what he wants.

It's also seen that they both miss each other, and that their problem, is they always talk around what they really want to say, usually end up fighting, and are both scared by what being straight with each other would mean. We also see her as the one, who will call Mal on his crap, and that he won't just outright blow her off.

Then the rest of the movie happens, and they don't have so much as look or word, until the final minutes of the movie, where all the sudden, something's changing her mind about going back to the Training House. Have she and Mal made any progress? As finally cut and edited, no. Sure, he did something noble, and they all mostly survived a harrowing ordeal, but there's nothing about their interaction with each other, that would seem to be the catalyst for this, "Maybe..." He's still going to do what he's always done.

But that cut scene, that would have been enough for me. Two people briefly dropping their walls to make a small connection, to support one another without any BS.

ETA: I think she does respect her work, Pointy. I think she respects the history of it, and the traditions, and the skill and the learning, which is why she defends it.....but more often than not, I don't think she likes it. "Like" and "respect" are two, different things.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 01:19 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 01:22 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 03:17 CET

Re: Saje's point about Mal's possible self-contempt:

If he does look down on her to avoid noticing that he looks down on himself, and if he can only come to respect himself when he comes to respect her, that, my virtual interlocutors, that would be quite an arc.

Pointy | August 30, 03:20 CET

That video totally worked for Mal and Inara's relationship! lol who would have thought?

kballgetlost | August 30, 03:27 CET

all the sudden, something's changing her mind about going back to the Training House

Very interesting, pat32082, because in my tiny little fanboy mind, I had fanwanked it that coming so close to losing their lives while serving in the noble cause was what had changed Inara's mind, because (fanwank fanwank) she saw a greater purpose in life than pleasing clients, and, more importantly, she also started to lose her belief in the Alliance, just as The Operative had. IMO, Mal had almost nothing to do with it, which is why it was such a surprise to him to hear that Inara had changed her mind -- just as he had rediscovered "belief" within himself, she had found reason to doubt her beliefs within herself ("doubt," because it's "maybe," not "no"). To me, the whole last half of Serenity is about finding, losing or changing beliefs. IMO. :-)

Two people briefly dropping their walls to make a small connection, to support one another without any BS.

I like that description. IMO, I guess they are dropping their walls & the BS in the "Maybe"/"Good answer" scene we're talking about. Does that help, pat32082?

If he does look down on her to avoid noticing that he looks down on himself, and if he can only come to respect himself when he comes to respect her, that, my virtual interlocutors, that would be quite an arc.

Hey, mom! I'm a virtual interlocutor! Whoa, I feel so educational (or is that "edutaining"?), Pointy (and, good point)! :-)

billz | August 30, 03:33 CET

Oh, there's no doubt that Mal's fooling himself too and about the same thing as Inara, IMO. He also thinks he's free when in fact he's trapped, running on the spot until he can come to terms with what happened in Serenity valley

Definitely agree with this. I'm not sure it's Joss' interpretation of Mal - and, we've been known to disagree on things before on here (although I did rewatch 'The Gift' last night, and accept I was very wrong about Buffy's suicide (or non-suicide) having actually seen it again with some distance, so Joss +4 points on me with that one. Plus, you know, he's the creator so he has some karma on that one). But, certainly from my side of things, as I've said before the only time I think Mal can begin to find peace is when he, uhm, finds peace. I think Serenity goes a long way towards this, although honestly, the only way I see Mal feeling more like a whole person again again is when he can return to living on land. Which I know goes against the whole concept of Firefly, and I know people here hate that notion, but as an ending - as I've said before - him and Inara, dry land, oceans one way, a village the next.. That's my ideal ending. One which, of course, I deserve not to get, and I expect not people to agree with.

There should also be pie.

gossi | August 30, 03:36 CET

I wish it did, billz, but that exchange is actually because of *another* scene between them that was cut.

Interesting read on her thought process, but I never got the impression that she thought that pleasing clients was the be-all, end-all, certainly not in the movie. And there's no indication that she's ready to give up that life, just continue aboard Serenity. Again.

I do however, think she firmly identifies herself as a Companion, and that if she ever were to become so disillusioned with it, she would have an interesting journey trying to find who she is, and what to do next.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 01:45 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 03:40 CET

And I think, pat32082, that Inara may not always like her work, but she believes in it. IOW, it doesn't always make her feel good, but it's what she really wants to do.

And I am thoroughly enamored of the idea that Mal's inability to accept Inara as she is comes from his inability to accept himself. That, cyber-buds, is a relationship barrier worthy of Genius Boy. Much better than my earlier, snarkier, but funnier, idea that the thing keeping Mal and Inara apart was that they were both too pretty.

Think of the sexual healing possibilities that the (thoroughly deplorable and yucky) companion concept makes possible for this complication!

At this point, I'm starting to feel a swelling desire to

um, write fan fic.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 02:19 ]

Pointy | August 30, 03:43 CET

pat32082: D'oh! Well, how about, here's where we shake hands and call it a tie, a noble, noble tie? :-)

gossi: Yeah! 'Cause, pie!

Pointy: I sense there are heaving bosoms in your writing future! ;-)

billz | August 30, 03:47 CET

Gossi, I think you were right in seeing a suicidal impulse, though not necessarily a suicidal intent, in The Gift. I know I would get some disagreement from that -esque-y fella, but I like the way his hero embodies contradictions, and the big one is her simultaneous desires both to save the world and to no longer have to save the world. At the climax she gets to both save it and check out of it, embracing destiny and desire, reaching the apex of her heroism in the act that brings it to its end.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 01:55 ]

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 07:23 ]

Pointy | August 30, 03:48 CET

Here comes that respectful disagreement again. ;-) I don't believe it's what she really wants. I believe there was a time she did, when she was almost House Priestess on Sihnon, but that time has passed.

I believe it's all she's known, and that's why she does it. She doesn't know what else to do, and is scared of another life, full of things she can't control. Part of the reason she left in Heart of Gold, was because she found herself not only really attached to Mal, but to everyone on that ship. She was even starting to be part of the jobs, as Trash and the Message showed us, and it scared her to death.

ETA: Agreed, billz. Agreed. :-)

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 01:53 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 03:52 CET

Thanks for posting this! My heart is full of glee. Gooey glee!

Tmas | August 30, 03:57 CET

Tasty, gooey glee?

pat32082 | August 30, 03:58 CET

Early draft of Serenity time. Not sure how canon people want to take this stuff. Spoilers?



- Inara hasn't 'been' with anybody since she left Serenity.

- There was a thug (thugs? can't remember) at the training ground who was forcefully, uhm, raping the girls. Well, it's strongly implied.

- Inara is, clearly, not happy about any of it. Her reaction is basically contrasted to what we think Mal would do. Do you think Mal would want to take up arms and kill the bastards responsible? That's Inara's reaction, more or less. It's very telling.

- It's strongly implied Inara is starting to see cracks in the Companions thing - on that world at least. It's being abused.



I really need to reread it to make sure I'm getting the right wording.

By the way, I'm very aware re-reading this it looks like I'm posting stuff which wasn't meant to be known. Tim can totally take responsibility for the first one, and the Serenity draft was sold to well over 50 people on ebay by somebody who worked on the show, so there's still the ethical dilemna of 'what's public domain? at what point can this still be talked about?'. Or, in other words... I hope nobody sees unfilmed content like this - as incorrect as I have described it - as spoilers, as ultimately I hope the stuff mentioned doesn't matter much now. Although I'm totally going to tell everybody Inara was going to get married to Mal whilst drunk as a joke in season 7's cliffhanger episode whilst in New Vegas.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-08-30 02:07 ]

gossi | August 30, 04:00 CET

I like your respectful disagreement, pat32082, as it gives me more stuff to think about. Now must caffeinate.

Pointy | August 30, 04:03 CET

Well, that would sure go a long way toward validating billz.

ETA: Caffeinate away, Pointy. I love talking the 'Fly. Do I mean Jeff Goldblum? Do I mean Firefly? Gahhh!!!!

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 02:07 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 02:09 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 04:04 CET

The vid was funny, but the discussion even more enjoyable, plus non-canon-"spoilers" & a smidgeon of pie. Deadlines, can't write, arraghh, no biz being on here t'all, thanks for good talk & caffeine.

QuoterGal | August 30, 04:25 CET

The video is just weirdly delightful, and very true to the characters relatioship.

I'm just having so much fun with all the debate, but get into it, simply because I haven't really made up my mind.

But I also love how the characters seems so contradicting, it just show how real they are, even though they're fictional characters.

Numfar PTB | August 30, 04:25 CET

Me too with the debate enjoying. Thanks one and all.

Pointy | August 30, 04:30 CET

Yes, thanks. I just wish I had more to say to keep it going.

ETA: This is all I got. I just watched the "Serenity" gag reel again.

(Haven aftermath:

Mal: Get these bodies together!
Zoe: We got time for grave-diggin'?
Mal: Zoe, we got time to rope 'em together. Five or six of 'em, I want 'em laid out on the nose of our ship.
Simon: Are you insane?
Mal: Put Book front and center. He's our friend, we should honor him....Kaylee, find that kid who's takin' a dirtnap with baby Jesus--we need a hood ornament...Jayne, try not to steal too much of their shit!)

LOL, and....Sigh.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 03:29 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2006-08-30 03:35 ]

pat32082 | August 30, 04:47 CET

I assumed that Inara decided to stay because Mal had finally let down some of his walls. In deciding to risk his life, he was finally agreeing to accept life and its risks, instead of cutting himself off from it. Maybe the same was true of Inara. She was so much about "control" - had been for so much of her life, that agreeing to do something that allowed her little or no control was, conversely, freeing.
I would like to see that bit outside the ship but not as part of the movie. Mal did need to be alone and noble at that point - the leader.

Lioness | August 30, 05:43 CET

Yep, a fun debate, all -- we're all hanging out at the cool kids' table today! ;-)

billz | August 30, 06:14 CET

Liking the contradiction and the paradox, Lioness.

In my fantasy hypothetical fan fic, the thing that most frightened Inara about her old life, the thing that drove her to escape, was the prospect of having as a client a man she loved. Fear of emotional vulnerability and loss of control.

Sooooo although she has been with countless men and women, tragically, Inara has never been with someone she loves. Both virgin and whore, as the gender scholars might say. (More paradox and contradiction!)

And she will not, can not, must not be with Mal until he recognizes that she is his emotional/spiritual mirror image and complement! Cannot surrender until she conquers! Cannot be free until she frees him! (O Paradox! O Contradiction! Yes! YES!)

Too much fun. Sleepy now.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 04:39 ]

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-08-30 05:34 ]

Pointy | August 30, 06:27 CET

mirror image

Coming soon to a fake bookstore near you!

gossi | August 30, 17:00 CET

Damn that video makes me yearn for more Sernifly. When are the next comics due? Will have to rewatch once again now just to take the edge off.

Paul_Rocks | August 30, 17:42 CET

Allow me a big ol' feminist non-Catholic high-five for the concept of human beings in the business of sex - call 'em whatever - with self-esteem, health insurance, and a place of respect in society. That respect may be illusory, but the same can be said about lawyers and politicians.

zencat | August 31, 06:01 CET

zencat, I'll high five to that.

gossi | August 31, 11:49 CET