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"You cant just throw people at all your problems, dear."
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September 19 2006

Buffy the Sexism Slayer. Yup, it's the strong female characters. Buffy has been around for a while. There have been college theses written on the subject. People will never get tired of the great things she and her scoobies(?) stand for and we cannot forget the whole staking of the vamps and other baddies.

[ edited by teachndoc on 2006-09-19 22:02 ]

And the piece was written by a girl in high school who had obviously done her homework. Nice bit of writing. I love seeing this show still being discovered.
Okay, I was going to be mean, but she's just a kid, so I'll just back off.

But, "and the wit of Gloria Steinem"?

Wit? I've seen Steinem I can't say how many times, and witty is not an adjective that jumps out. Intelligent, committed, maybe a little self-important, but Gloria, even at Slayer strength, would never match Buffy's quippage.

CiV, so basically you're saying she's unequipped?
Here's my excuse excellent reason to cite the definition of a heroic woman character given by Joss's Wesleyan professor Jeanine Basinger in her very fine book, The World War II Combat Film.

A woman is a hero, as opposed to a heroine, if she fits one of the following portraits:

1. A woman who defies conventional roles and redefines her life on her own terms, even if she ultimately chooses to be a wife and mother. She undergoes a process of questioning, as a hero would.

2. A woman who defies society itself, not just the conventions of society. She settles for nothing less than possession of her own life, even if she is destroyed in the fight. A man who fights this way is a hero.

3. A woman who by choice or accident finds herself in a situation or a profession that commonly would be restricted to male participation, and she functions ably in it.

4. A woman who forms and maintains a positive sisterly relationshp, a healthy mother/daughter relationship, or who joins a group of women in an important professional endeavor.

I figured you were the crowd for this quote. Read it out loud, you may hear stirring music. (Page 205 of the 2003 paperback, all ye footnoters.)
Pointy, to each his/her own definition, but to me a hero is one, male or female, who displays uncommon courage at personal risk--not necessarily physical--in pursuit of a noble aim. I don't know a woman who doesn't fit at least one of Basinger's definitions. But I think the word hero is way overused these days. If someone returns a wallet they found with all the cash intact they're called a hero in the press. To me, they're displaying admirable honesty, but not heroics. Just my opinion ; not looking to proselytize.
Excellent points, jaynelovesvera, but Basinger is talking about a rarer breed, the heroic woman character on film, which is something I probably should've mentioned.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-09-20 02:37 ]
Chris inVirginia: "Wit? I've seen Steinem I can't say how many times, and witty is not an adjective that jumps out."

"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off."
-- Gloria Steinem

"I can't mate in captivity."
-- Gloria Steinem

"A woman reading Playboy feels a little like a Jew reading a Nazi manual."
-- Gloria Steinem

“A pedestal is as much a prison as any small, confined space.”
-- Gloria Steinem

"Someone asked me why women don't gamble as much as men do, and I gave the commonsensical reply that we don't have as much money. That was a true and incomplete answer. In fact, women's total instinct for gambling is satisfied by marriage." -- Gloria Steinem

“Men should think twice before making widowhood women's only path to power.”
-- Gloria Steinem
Those are some great quotes, QG. Gloria Steinem undoubtedly has great wit. But I'd tend to agree with CiV that she's not "witty" in the usual sense of that word. Those lines don't exactly get them rolling in the aisles - and I'm sure Ms. Steinem didn't intend them to. Except perhaps bitterly.

As ever, I'm delighted to see evidence that BtVS continues to speak to the next generation of viewers, thinkers, and hero(ine)s. Yay.
SNT, I agree, with the addition that when I think "witty" I conjure someone like Johnny Carson, or Joss, who delivers spontaneously, at a moment's notice. I also have watched many interviews with Steinem over the years--I was a card-carrying, money-contributing member of NOW at 18, and while her comments were intelligent, perceptive and biting, they always seemed pre-packaged to me. Still, having looked the definition up for the first time in my life, she qualifies.

And QuoterGal, do you keep all those quotes in your head to retrieve them so quickly, or do you have a staff of many mini minions?
Oh, SNT, I'm with you in terms of what springs to mind when we typically think of "witty" -- she's not particularly snappy or jocular as far as I can tell (based on absolutely not knowing her at all, personally) but like the jlv-man say, she do technically qualify. I really wanted to make the point that she generally writes with a fairly biting & incisive tone that contains wit.

("And QuoterGal, do you keep all those quotes in your head to retrieve them so quickly, or do you have a staff of many mini minions?"

jlv, it's true that I have many mini-minions [M.M.M.], but they are not employed to retrieve quotes. For the snarky answer to this & many other QuoterGal-related questions, go here if you're in the mood for a short quiz.)
QG (aka tPW), I took your charming, amusing quiz, and scored an 80. I'm currently in 4th place. See, I do listen(?) to what you write; the two I missed I almost picked the correct answer.

Are those quiz-lings on the score chart some of your M.M.M.s or enemy collaboraters?
(Damn, jlv, one of the high scorers. It breaks my heart that there was an un-posted character limit for the questions, 'cause it's even snarkier when you can read the entire question. It's only showing me one of the ? you got wrong, though... The prize [when I posted it on myspace] was a custom-chosen quote, which I shall deliver soon-ly... but I digress and am painfully OT...)

The tricks to timely quote-retrieval are 1) remembering that the person you intend to quote said something like that and then 2) knowing a few pertinent words of the quote; 3) knowing where to look on-line or (rarely now) in a book and 4) knowing who to trust, 'cause many on-line quote sources suck bigtime...

Now that I've revealed my secrets, you are all going to have to get a brain-wipe with the flashy-thingy. Look right here, people...
Um, look where? ;-)

Also: I think I could do worse than choosing a career as a mini-minion. What's the pay like?

Also: agreed, jlv, Ms. Steinem (who was on Real Time with Bill Maher last week) is not so much a specialist in witty like makin' with the funny, but definitely has wit like the dictionary definition version. But, QG, were you as shocked as I was that Pointy beat you to the Basinger? See, QG, you do need another mini-minion!

I like the essay this thread linked to, teachndoc, good find!

[ edited by billz on 2006-09-20 04:56 ]
I have learned from humbling experience, billz, that I am no match for QuoterGal when it comes to Joss quotes. So I went Joss-adjacent.
That's Joss fine, Pointy.

But, QG, were you as shocked as I was that Pointy beat you to the Basinger?

Oh my goodness! Pointy is really Alec Baldwin! Alec, what was it like to work with Sarah on Girl's Guide? We know you wanted her. Scared of Freddie boy, arntcha?
I worship the water she walks on.

[ edited by Pointy on 2006-09-20 09:12 ]
billz: "But, QG, were you as shocked as I was that Pointy beat you to the Basinger?"

Pointy got game, and that's a fact! BTW, can't never have enough Minions (although it only pays in used language) and that's another fact. I'm recruiting potential Evil Witches over at the Goners board, which, not incidentally, should be increasingly of interest as we get closer to Goners-production. Until that Happy Day, we pass the time in amusing ways. Join us!... Everyone... Come and be Goners-Adjacent.

jlv, you certainly do listen & retain. I'm going to have to watch my revelations here, as you will no doubt recall them at most inopportune moments. Oh, and one long & heartfelt G.O.R. for all your punning today. And crossed fingers...

Gotta get Jeanine Basinger's book, The World War II Combat Film.

(For quiz-related custom-quotes, I know that X & jlv took the tiresome thing, but not certain who the 3rd person is -- can they let me know, so I can tailor their quote just so?)
I took the quiz and received my desired score, zero, not falling for what I think was a trick question designed to render an unintentional correct answer. I'm in dead last. In your face!
A score of zero certainly does represent a new low, dreamlogic, but as long as it was your desired score, well done, you. They were all trick questions in the sense that they were designed to elicit a correct response, but they don't hold up to a lot of reasoned scrutiny... (i.e., thought.) They are just froth.

I think people get a high score if they are able to imagine my snark-levels. F'rinstance, my partner got a 90 because he knows what I find amusing and when, but missed one because he thought I would always go for the quote, which ain't necessarily so. All those who took the test will receive a custom-quote (but if your quiz-name or email doesn't resemble your name here on the BLOG, it will be tricky knowing who you are for customization...)

Luckily, this topic is about to go off the front, because I really couldn't be more OT and self-aggrandizing. I hope, at least, that the test was amusing for those that took it.

“If we bring a little joy into your hum-drum lives . . . then our hard work ain’t been in vain for nothin’.”

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