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September 20 2006

(SPOILER) Smallville denied Wonder Woman. Exec producer Al Gough grumbles to TV Guide's Ausiello about Joel Silver and Joss Whedon's involvement with the Amazon (countless spoilers for several US shows in this link).

Aww, the *cough*crappy*cough* Superman TV show doesn't get to do *cough*whatwouldprobablybeacrappy*cough* version of Wonder Woman? Shame.

*cough*
Pat you read my mind. I wish they would get their own characters decent before they mess with the ones of other people.
I'm frankly more intrigued by the typo claiming that Alan Rickman (as opposed to Alan Ritchson) will be playing Aquaman. Hot.

It's almost certainly a good thing that Wonder Woman isn't being allowed on SV. Most people have been wishing for Bruce Wayne from day one (especially since SV's key concept, before AlMiles got to it, was meant to be a story of Bruce and Clark meeting as teenagers), but seeing as how I'm pretty sure all he would do is develop a huge crush on Lana because of her beauty and perfection, it's probably for the best that they can't get the rights to Batman away from the movie people.
Methinks Al Gough ought to be a little more grateful to the man who in all likelihood made that show possible in the first place.
Yep, probably true meimi. Gotta say Smallville's gonna need to do some good stuff to hold my attention this year (and not just for the traditionally strong season opener). I'm still watching because i'm a completist and for the odd flashes of inspiration but it's getting harder and harder to justify when the only really worthwhile characters are Chloe, Lex and Lionel.

They could've done Bruce well and in fact I think one of the keys to that would be to have him completely uninterested in any of the female cast and only in the males in as much as they were useful/obstructions. He's all about the mission after all (and even though it may not be canon i'd've had him figure out Clark was super in about the first 5 minutes - after all this is the guy who'll one day kick Superman's arse, he should leave them all, including Lex, in the dust).

Green Arrow and the proto-JLA could be worth seeing (though the big bat shaped hole is gonna be even more apparent).
Methinks Al Gough ought to be a little more grateful to the man who in all likelihood made that show possible in the first place.
Oh, they are, trust me. They've made countless comments about how Joss Whedon taught them how to make amazing television. They've repeatedly said, since the early days of S1, that the greatest lesson they learned was to not be afraid to kill people off, since then your audience lives in a state of suspense, knowing nobody is safe.

Unfortunately, since the early days I think they ran a bit in the wrong direction, as about half the Meteor Freaks of the Week would always end up dead once they found out Clark's secret (the rest were packed off to the mental asylum). So it made it less "suspenseful" and more with them looking like idiots since you knew whoever found out the secret was dead meat, because the status quo of the show could never change. Very Joss, that. Plus, I think Smallville High probably had a higher mortality rate that Sunnydale High ever did, but what made it more depressing was how in the early seasons, with students dropping like flies every other week, nobody ever cared. I think the first time they offed a student, Chloe and Clark walked by a little candle shrine in the hallway. After that, never again.

I say this, but I did really enjoy last season (I use the word "enjoy" loosely, in the "so very, very bad that it's almost good" Smallville sense). As Saje said, the only worthwhile characters are Lionel, Lex, and Chloe, but Chloe really came into her own last year and made the show worthwhile to me for the first time since S3.

They could've done Bruce well and in fact I think one of the keys to that would be to have him completely uninterested in any of the female cast and only in the males in as much as they were useful/obstructions.
*gasp* ...proposing a character disinterested in Lana? I don't know, Saje. Sounds risky. It's never been done before!
Geez, pat32082, you really gotta get someone to see to that cough. For a Human Replicant that's been designed to be Practically Perfect in Every Way, it's astonishing that your designers would program in such a disruptive human failing.

I braved the spoilers to read the comment and caught a big honkin' case of Whateversville.
I seem to remember a few years ago that Gough said that they were going to bring Bruce Wayne on the show as an acquaintance of Lex since both are billionaires and that Clark and Bruce would not get along very well.

This sounds a little bit like what they are now doing with Oliver Queen/Green Arrow.

You know,recently Al Gough talked about how they were thinking about at one point doing a Lois Lane/Teen Titans spin-off.I think the character who should get a spin-off if there ever was one is Chloe.Especially since she is not an original Superman character and they would have more freedom from Warner Bros. and DC comics to do things with her.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-09-20 20:49 ]
Yeah, me and General Grevious have the same problem. It makes absolutely no sense why, because we're robots, but there it is.
Quick, Buffyfanatic, register that chloe idea! Make lots of cash!
or lose it forever (gough will take it).

I'm kind of glad Silver/Whedon wont let it happen. TV guide had a picture of the Green Arrow character, and all I can say is WTF!?! IT looks like they are on track to ruining that character. Geez what is the deal with them trying to hipify DC characters?
Wow, I just read so many spoilers, hehe. I usually try to stay away, but I just couldn't...!
Smallville continually does nothing but basterdize iconic characters. The level of hate I have for that show and it's producers are only equalled by my love of all things Whedon.

Oh, they are, trust me. They've made countless comments about how Joss Whedon taught them how to make amazing television. They've repeatedly said, since the early days of S1, that the greatest lesson they learned was to not be afraid to kill people off, since then your audience lives in a state of suspense, knowing nobody is safe.

When have they said this? And even if they have said it, I can tell you for a fact that they have learned NOTHING from the Joss Whedon I know and love! I have been held captive by the beauty that is Tom Welling for the entire series run. I hate Smallville but I just can't make myself stop watching it. Maybe it's because of Superman or the actors - maybe it's because I'm a masochist who has to have something to bitch about.

Seriously, have you even seen these two boobs in interviews? They don't even know the mythology of there own show and prove as much every time they are given a sound bite. I have thought for years that the only way Al Gough could have a job outside the santitation field is for him to have made a pact with the devil himself - and nothing will ever change that opinion.

For the past 5 years they have written the most patheticly weak female character (Lana) I can recall in memory - and she continually just gets worse and worse.. There is often no consistancy in characters or plot and at times the writing has been down right horrid. I am insulted that Steven DeKnight cites Joss and his Buffy experience to leading him to this Smallville gig - because the two are apples and prunes.

Hold on to that girl by her lasso if you have to - but PLEASE do not release her to them - no matter what you do! She will be shown mostly nude, given crap lines to say and will be played by some Vancouver waitress who strips on weekends to make a living. Now I'm not saying that all of there guest stars are bad - but 90% of them in the past 3 years have been so bad your eyes bleed - trust me.

I'm sorry - that got a little out of control - but Smallville does that to me.
The trick to watching Smallville is to just watch first 2 and last 2 episodes. These are the only episodes of the season that have any developments, story and characterwise. The other episodes are just different variations of this:

INTERIOR-BARN

LANA: Clark, you don't trust me!!
CLARK: Lana, I wanna protect you. (Stares at the sunset, cue pop music)

---
INTERIOR-LEX' MANSION

CLARK: Lex, I thought you were my friend.
LEX: My daddy doesn't love me!!
I think it's a pity they can't have Wonder Woman. I mean, somehow the world didn't implode when "Superman Returns" debuted and "Smallville" was still on the air. I have no love of SV, but for those who do, it's a pity there will be a Justice League-minus-one episode.
...and will be played by some Vancouver waitress who strips on weekends to make a living.

Quite right. Mustn't deprive Ben Affleck of his preferred pastime when he's in town and on break from filming.


delirium_haze, thanks for the advice, I may just try that out sometime in the future.


I think it's a pity they can't have Wonder Woman. I mean, somehow the world didn't implode when "Superman Returns" debuted and "Smallville" was still on the air. I have no love of SV, but for those who do, it's a pity there will be a Justice League-minus-one episode.
crossoverman | September 20, 23:42 CET


Back when the J.J. Abrams version of a Superman movie was in development,there was talk of the movie division trying to pressure The WB network into canceling Smallville so the movie wouldn't have any clashes with the show since both were origin stories.

The only reason Smallville got made was because the first choice,the young Bruce Wayne series,was blocked by the movie division due to the plans for a Year One type film which ended up as Batman Begins.

DC characters who have movie projects in active development are going to be off-limits to Smallville.I wonder if The Flash would of been off-limits as well had they waited longer to do his character on the series since plans for a Flash movie went into play after the season 4 episode,"Run" had already aired.

I bet you will probably see The Martian Manhunter/J'onn J'onzz on Smallville over Captain Marvel/Billy Batson if only because a Captain Marvel movie is being worked on.
Heh, delirium_haze ;). True though, they lost a third of their scripts when Jonathan went.

INTERIOR OBVIOUSLY LIT SOUNDSTAGE BARN


PA KENT (looking concerned and fatherly): Clark, did anyone see you, son ?

CLARK (looking a bit sheepish): No, dad. Well, no-one that survived the episode.

PA KENT (looking fatherly and concerned): Thank God, son, you know how important your secret is to keep. From people. Who want to know it. Your secret, I mean.

CLARK (big mooning teary eyed look): I know, Dad. I love you.

PA KENT (err, concern of a fatherly nature): I love you too, son. But remember to keep your secret. It's important, son. Now let's go and mow the lower forty together.

CLARK (earnest, with big calf eyes): I can't Dad, I have a lot of homoerotic subtext to get through with Lex then Lana's coming over for a 3 minute awkward conversation based around secrets.

PA KENT (concernedly fatheredly): Secrets ? That reminds me son ...
True though, they lost a third of their scripts when Jonathan went.

When Jonathon keeled over was anyone else shouting at Clark: "Use your bloody superspeed to take him to the hospital!" ?
And miss a big mooning teary eyed look ? Are you mad ?

(given the buzz before the episode what I was actually thinking was 'Thank fuck they didn't kill Chloe' ;)
Ok enough of the Smallville slagging, get back on topic.
Um, isn't Smallville slagging the topic, in this case? ;-)

Or, um, yeah, soooooooo -- we won't see young WW in the Justice League ep. Maybe it's set before she left Paradise Island? Yeah, that's it.

Also back OT, I have to admit that the picture on the linked page of Tom "Big Moony Eyed" Welling and Kristen Bell was nice. They'd be kind of a cute couple, despite their, what, foot-and-a-half height difference. ;-)

And thanks for the spoiler tag and additional warning, Simon! You really saved me, dude; I mean, great googly-moogly, the photo of TW and KB and searching for "Wonder Woman" were about the only things I could read on the page and stay my superunspoiled self! :-)
Um, isn't Smallville slagging the topic, in this case? ;-)


Even I get tired of Smallville slagging, and like many things here recently it gets old very quickly.
True dat! (and, message received) ;-)
I think the character who should get a spin-off if there ever was one is Chloe.Especially since she is not an original Superman character and they would have more freedom from Warner Bros. and DC comics to do things with her.

Yeah, but then they would call it Veronica Mars.
As Joss is re-making an icon, I'd say he deserves the first opportunity to use all the cute gimmicks, in-jokes, previous story lines, etc, etc. It reminds me of the movie, The Incredibles. Was all that homage or blatantly stolen (read borrowed) ideas? The whole movie could be found in pages of comics over the last 20 years. Not one original idea in the entire film. Why let the small screen have a chance to make Joss look like a copy cat when they have the first go around.

Secondly, as you all know, WW needs to be SMOKIN hot. How could anyone look hotter than Erica Durance (Lois Lane)? Even with WW in the skimpy costume, all eyes would still be on Durance.
"Unfortunately, since the early days I think they ran a bit in the wrong direction, as about half the Meteor Freaks of the Week would always end up dead once they found out Clark's secret (the rest were packed off to the mental asylum). So it made it less "suspenseful" and more with them looking like idiots since you knew whoever found out the secret was dead meat, because the status quo of the show could never change. Very Joss, that. Plus, I think Smallville High probably had a higher mortality rate that Sunnydale High ever did, but what made it more depressing was how in the early seasons, with students dropping like flies every other week, nobody ever cared. I think the first time they offed a student, Chloe and Clark walked by a little candle shrine in the hallway. After that, never again."

At the QM con Al & Miles mentioned how they get stick for the Freak of the Week stuff. But then said that Buffy killed vampires every week and no-one complained about that. He didn't say it in a nasty way and was laughing. Basically they couldn't use major Superman villians as Clark isn't Superman yet. So they came up with something else. It's not perfect but the show has reached passed 100 episodes, so they must be doing something right.

As to the lack of morning. Didn't see much of that at Sunnydale High either. They always seemed to either not notice or reached into the denial bank. So much so that many fans theorised that it may have been due to a spell or the Hellmouth's influence, that made people not care. The only time the town did notice was in Gingerbread and even then that was because a demon was influencing them.

It saddens me to see fans of Btvs/Ats developing an almost elitist attitude towards other shows. Reminds me of people who sneer at the shows because of the names. Is Smallville in the same league as Btvs or Ats? No. Is it utter tripe that deserves such a major trashing? No.

But I guess each to their own.
lynnie, I think the differnce is that many people would dismiss Buffy simply because of it's name. I think the fact that most of us here have at least bothered to watch Smallville, and in most cases quite a few episodes, shows that we aren't elitest in the sense that we will at least give most shows I chance. I do agree that it isn't complete rubbish but I think it could be so much better.

I think Smallville is mildly entertaining, better than a lot of the rubbish on TV but still inferior to a lot of other shows like Veronica Mars or Lost (not to mention Jossverse shows). I have never been hugely into comics, but I have seen a few of the Superman films and can remember watching The New Adventures of Superman.

With Smallville I don't really care so much about the mythology remaining consistent- what I really would like is well written, nicely acted show. And I think what pulls Smallville above some of it's competitors (such as Charmed) is that it can succeed on occasion. There have been a handful of well written episodes, and most of the regular actors have shown themselves capable of great work- even Tom Welling.

However, for me it's weighed down by the fixation upon certain inane plots, some really weak performances and the fact that they seem to hit the reset button at the end of every episode. I can watch it mindlessly, admiring all the pretty people and nice effects, but it completely fails to engage me on any other level on all but a few, unfortunately rare occasions.

I didn't really have so much of a problem with the "meteor rock-infected freak wreaks havoc" plot in the first season, because if you remember Buffy's first season didn't have the most sophisicated of story arcs, however what made the first season great was the strong, engaging interaction between the four lead characters, and intelligent dialogue, and many of the plots had some sort of twist to them.

However it feels like Smallville has just been stalling since it's first season and never built upon it's early potential. I am currently watching season four and episodes like "Devoted" and "Spell" are horrendously bad, and not to mention feeling very much like something from the first season. Compare this with when Buffy did an episode like "Him"- which was able to revisit a similar plot from "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" but treat it so deftly and with such easy performances from the cast that it made it really worth watching.

I do think that there have been some great parts of Smallville, particularly the characters of Chloe, Lex and Lionel. But whereas in Alias someone like Arvin Sloane was so believably complex and ambiguous that his character arc was amazing to witness, it feels like the relationship between Lex and Lionel just veers from side-to-side and back again, never ultimately changing.

And that's kind of like the relationship between Clark and Lana. Just how long with it go on? I think it's one of the most prolonged, irritating relationships in TV history. True, it can be difficult to sustain a happy, stable couple on TV, but it isn't impossible. Not to mention that there has never really been any emotional connections between the two characters- it seems that just because both actors are attractive, their characters would naturally be completely infatuated with one another yet be unable to manage a relationship.

And finally, the draining presence of Kristen Kruek, who should definitely have been fired by the end of the first season. Beautiful she may be, but she's just so bad at acting that even after four years I don't see Lana as a real person. Never mind the fact that the character is written so blandly perfect. At least Clark has developed as a character to some extent, whereas Lana has always been incredibly dull.

I don't even know why I really keep watching Smallville, I guess it isn't a bad way of putting in an hour but I just find it so frustrating because the potential is there for it to be so much better, and yet they never seem to live up to it.

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