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October 10 2006

"Go Fug Yourself" has an interesting idea for a Joss Whedon pilot. Starring the very lovely Gina Torres, naturally. (read the description)

LMAO, arabchick! Best. Fug/Photo Caption. Ever. ;-)
I have an interesting idea for Go Fug Yourself: Go back in time to third grade and this time pay attention when the teacher tells you unkindly making fun of others isn't very nice, and is so easy to do one would be a fool to feel a sense of accomplishment.
Sorry, jlv, you make a good point. Er, now I feel bad. Well, in this case at least, I will say that obviously Ms. Badu meant this to be a playful outfit.
I think they confused Sam Raimi with Joss, he's the one that used similar costuming in 'Cleopatra 2525'. Joss is far more fashionible being the girlie man, he is, he would take note of such things. Anyway I think she looks more 'Aztec Warrior Princess 2525' than 'Aztec's in Space'. Ok it might be easy to confuse since Gina Torres was in both.
I don't like Go Fug Yourself much, but I do like gazing upon some Funkadelic threads.
I'm with jlv on this one. I don't see that it serves any useful purpose.
I think it shows that the folks at go fug yourself have a pretty good (if biting) sense of humor and that they are obviously Firefly fans. Who else would come up with that as a reference?
umm.. people running a website who are trying to get it linked from Whedon fansites?
I don't quite get the GFY hate - I mean, it's a snarky site about people who specifically put themselves on display, usually about aspects of them that are very deliberately put on display (i.e. red carpet photoes and the like). And even with that, they rarely make negative comments about people's immutable physical features and often display a fondness for their subjects. I just don't see why good-natured jokes about outfits, most of which cost more than my month's (or year's rent), worn by people who put themselves in the public eye mostly at public events are somehow off-limits for decent people.

(Also, I think they've specifically mentioned being Whedon fans before - I don't think it's just for the website hits).

[ edited by gilraen on 2006-10-10 02:23 ]
gilraen, just so I understand, are you saying because someone, often as part of their job, dresses up for a function, they automatically forfeit any expectation of common courtesy. And as a person's income increases their right to common courtesy decreases? Would you walk up to one of the people they fug (a stranger) and say those things to the person's face? And then tell the person: "Oh, that was a good-natured joke. I really admire you, actually"?

I think the bitches in Shindig who mocked Kaylee's dress would be avid readers of GFY.
Well, my first instinct is to say "No, of course not." But maybe I'm saying "Yes, they do." But I don't think we're quite talking about common courtesy here - we're talking about an uncommon situation, with different rules. This isn't a perfect analogy, but as a normal rule, if someone hands me something they've written, I'm not going to make fun of it, no matter how bad I think it is. If I read something equally bad written by, say, a nominee for the Supreme Court - in my opinion, that's fair game and an important part of public discourse. This doesn't have the same gravity, of course, and maybe that pushes it over the edge into "wrong." But we're talking for the most part about people who are essentially in a profession that involves not only being in the public eye but agressively seeking out the public eye, and part of how that's done is wearing eye catching things that are meant for people to talk about - I don't really see why all that talk must be good.

I absolutely do not support taking pictures through a celeb's window or other despicable paparrazi tricks, but I feel like what I see on GFY is invariably red carpet shots and the like, so I place it in a different category.

I don't know, maybe the girls who mocked Kaylee would be avid readers of the site. But to me there's a difference between what they did and what the site is doing, which is part of why I mentioned cost (and no, I don't think that's a dispositive factor, but I think it plays a role). Kaylee was an underdog, she was out of her element, she had less money and no connections, and she was desperately trying to fit in. We're in pretty much the opposite situation - maybe making fun of celebrity's clothes doesn't reflect the best in human nature, but I hardly think it's about belittling the less fortunate or about excluding those we deem beneath us.

And furthermore, I still hold that most of what's posted on that site is pretty gentle - why don't I see ire about sites like The Superficial that constantly harp on how "fat" actresses are or how they need a nose job?
I think my problem with any of the sites of this type, is I just don't see the point. Aren't there better ways to spend time than saying nasty things about people who have done you no harm? Seems energies would be better devoted in positive directions.

Not to be Mr. Psycho Pep-Squad, or anything.
Well, I'm sure there could be better things I could be doing. On the other hand, I'm hardpressed to think of a leisure time activity I COULDN'T replace with something more productive (including Whedon DVD watching as much as I love it). When I'm looking for something mindless to entertain me during some downtime on-line, I'm not thinking "Which website will most effectively channel my energies in a positive direction." Possibly because I'm a bad person, but so it goes.

On the other hand, all sorts of sociological studies focus on how people bond much more quickly through gossip and through negative talk about other people than positive. Maybe it's better that that impulse is focused on people we don't know and who will probably never be aware of our existence (or care about it) than on people we know. And maybe it's even better that it's focused on a relatively innocuous aspect of those people's lives than on vitriolic comments about their personal lives or something. I don't know; I do know that I'm constantly surprised at how many of my friends and casual acquaintances read Go Fug Yourself (and not through my prompting; I enjoy the site, but am hardly an evangelist about it, except on here, apparently), and I would never in a million years refer to any of them as "mean" people.
If anything, the fug girls are big champions of natural and normal looking women. They routinely throw the barbs at victims of cosmetic surgery and the purposefully skeletal.

I like 'em. They are VERY funny.
Since barb-throwing is for the good of society, apparently, would you like Caroline to change the posting rules and allow barb-throwing on this site? You could then throw them at the victims of false analogies and the purposefully dogmatic. As long as you're VERY funny, of course.
JLV,
There will be no throwing of me, on this site or any other, unless a flight plan is filed and approved first.

I mostly don't find the fuggers all that amusing, but I do have to cheer for the "Aztec Superheroes on the Moon" concept, although based on the costume, I think it's a failed George Lucas script, not Joss Whedon. Come to think of it, based on the costume, I think it was a George Lucas movie that got made.
That website drips greasy drops of low self-esteem. licks monitor
barboo, my apologies. I should have first checked with you and the FAA, TSA, and Homeland Security. The pain medication taken during my recovery from plastic surgery to make my fat arse look more purposefully skeletal has affected my brain. I'll post some pics of me in my finest t-shirts and sneakers, and we'll have free fugs all 'round. I may even wear socks.
I very rarely read GFY, but it always struck me as more of a "Why would they do this to themselves" type of humor rather than "Look how stupid they are," and overall not particularly mean-spirited.

Of course, I was accused of being the type of person who caused Columbine on this very website, so clearly I'm a horrible person who doesn't have a valid opinion on this matter :/
Lady Brick, it's OK. Everyone knows it was Oscar who caused Columbine. Some suspect brickgirl of collusion but I don't see it that way.
I'll post some pics of me in my finest t-shirts and sneakers, and we'll have free fugs all 'round. I may even wear socks.

I can just see the thread where we debate whether you were airbrushed and/or objectified, jlv. Or, perhaps, where we debate whether you should have been airbrushed. ;-)
LOL Succatash! Dips tortilla chip in monitor.
JLV: Oscar maintains that at the time of the Columbine shooting, he was employed as a bookend in a college dorm room in Boston. I suspect that it was during this period that he became a Joss fan. Oscar would also like to state that he prefers TWP over GFY, but I don't feel like being his personal secretary at the moment.
Hmm, not really sure about the outfit. Nice tits though. *runs away veerrry quickly*

(*tip-toes back* seriously, GFY can sometimes be funny and sometimes just bitchy for bitchy's sake, IMO. I actually have less trouble with them taking the piss out of this than with the 'normal' dresses that people wear to premieres etc. This outfit is clearly meant to be a bit wacky and over-the-top and so it's going to elicit attention of all kinds - which the performer must've known. Reckon it's true of most walks of life that if you're gonna take credit for doing something 'right', you have to take your licks when you do something 'wrong' - and if you've any sense, treat those two imposters just the same)
Since barb-throwing is for the good of society, apparently, would you like Caroline to change the posting rules and allow barb-throwing on this site? You could then throw them at the victims of false analogies and the purposefully dogmatic. As long as you're VERY funny, of course.


I don't think any of those things have any relationship to what I said, and I'm kind of tired of being accused of being a bad person with low self-esteem because I find a website that joshes celebrities about their clothes amusing.

Ah well, maybe I'll just step away from the computer and spend some wholesome quality time brutally murdering kittens and cruelly mocking small, fragile children now.
Its a humor site, be amused by it or don't read it, but whatever you do, speculation about the authors' personal lives is offlimits, at least around here. If you think what they do is meanspirited, is the way to show that by being meanspirited back? Not so much, nor is it helpful to imply that those here who enjoy it have low self-esteem or are essentially bad people. Saje hits it on the head as far as the site goes, methinks. Play the ball, folks.
What in God's name has happened to this smart, funny, kind, doesn't-take-itself-too-seriously haven? Life events have mostly kept me away from the black more than usual, and I've returned over the past couple of days to something all-together new and different. The tone of discourse, the rude attitudes towards other posters' ideas, the self-important, fucking exhausting, and just plain not-nice "Oh-yeah?-Well-watch-me-brilliantly-dismantle-your-every opinion-to-remind-you-what-an-idiot-you-are"-ness of some of the back and forth (see also: "McNab Goes Commando") may not be enough to warrant time-outs, but they're bumming me out, and are enough to make me think I should have stayed away longer. Really disappointing.

[ edited by barest_smidgen on 2006-10-10 14:37 ]
I love reading GFY because it is precisely the humor that "serious fashion" just doesn't have! What on earth are half these people wearing?! And it wouldn't take an hour of browsing the blog to notice they do highlight people who dress well, and go "see? that's nice." they recently did a 4 or 5 photo spread (with captions) of kate winslet, whom they adore.

It's really a mocking of people who are so normally idolized by the media. These celebs are often so loved by the media and especially tabloids that anything negative tends to focus on their eating habits (or lack thereof) or nude photos or sex scandals. These girls focus on the fact that regardless of what any of them do or what publicity or fame they get, sometimes they STILL dress in the dark. To me, that's not attacking the person. It's showing "look, these rich and famous people make giant bizarre mistakes with clothing too." and to boot, there's no doubt the clothing is extremely expensive, so now the thought is "they spent a ton on that?!"

It's all in good fun, I think. People are praised to no end for what they wear well, they are worshipped for being famous and beautiful. Why not the other side?
zeitgeist, I missed the part where I implied anyone here has low self-esteem or is essentially bad (except myself, in other threads, in which case one implication is possibly true and another is probably true. Poster, know thyself). However, since you seem to find my comments mean-spirited, I happily apologise to all who may have been offended. If saying that site shuld go back in time to learn manners is equivalent to speculating about the personal lives of those who write for the site, I apologise for that.

I also apologise to the fictional characters in Shindig I called "bitches". I should write a fanfic to make it up to them in which they all have chararacter-forming mutiple orgasms from fisting.
JLV - It wasn't directed solely at you (and you know I usually enjoy the hell out of your posts), but this post was a bit over the top:

Since barb-throwing is for the good of society, apparently, would you like Caroline to change the posting rules and allow barb-throwing on this site? You could then throw them at the victims of false analogies and the purposefully dogmatic. As long as you're VERY funny, of course.


You, and others in this thread made people feel bad about enjoying the linked article and that's not cool. And I don't even know where to start with the fanfic fisting post. I get where you are coming from, I really do, just take it down a notch, okay? Feel free to email me if you would like to discuss it further.
I've got to wonder what some people here would think of something like Mark Twain's (totally awesome) essay: Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses. Or Dorothy Parker. Or Catullus at his meanest. Or The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. Not that I'm saying GFY is on any of their levels. It could be just pointless bitchery. I don't know since I don't read GFY. But pointed witticisms are and have always been a valuable part of culture.
Wanted to make it clear that I didn't mean to single out JLV here. There are several posts in this thread that tear down the authors of GFY and anyone (implied mostly) who enjoys their snark. I was merely trying to defuse this thread on a timecrunch in light of some of the over the top things said in the Mercedes McNab thread. I hate to think of billz having a bad day because he dared to enjoy a link on Whedonesque and say so, on the other side of that coin, JLV wasn't referring to you, gilraen, in his 'barbs' post. So as you write AND as you read, stop to think about intent and perception for a second.
JLV wasn't referring to you, gilraen, in his 'barbs' post. So as you write AND as you read, stop to think about intent and perception for a second.

Aww, yes, I see that now - sorry, Zeitgeist and JLV, for overreacting.
KernelM, I don't think I'm at liberty to further discuss GFY, but I also find Twain's wittcisms a valuable part of culture, Parker does nothing for me personally, I've never sampled Catullus--too many John D. McDonald novels, film criticism books and road signs still unread--and haven't seen The Daily Show or The Colbert Report. Since I gave my television away several years ago, I don't see anything on TV unless I happen to be somewhere where the owner of a television is watching, or DVDs, of course.

As to the question upthread as to lack of ire over The Superficial, I've never read it--and from the description, won't--but more pertinently I've never seen it linked here on the front page, while GFY appears to be a regular feature.
jlv - discuss away re: the site and its content. The guideline is to try to shy away from comments on the authors ("one would be a fool").
George Lucas? The fug girls responded to information from their posters and we should, too. The reference was George Clinton.
I've got nothing but love for the GFY girlies. The writing is consistently good, biting, and hilarious.

As for umm.. people running a website who are trying to get it linked from Whedon fansites?, GFY doesn't really need it. They've got blurbs from Defamer, Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Village Voice, and the Guardian. They covered Fashion Week for New York Magazine.

It's okay to not like/get the humor, but you have to acknowledge that they're fantastic writers, and quite successful at what they do.

I loves 'em.
zeitgeist, I only said one would be a fool, not the rest of them, and like a firing squad where only one rifle has live ammo, they can all assume I was talking about their coworker down the hall.

Not buying it, huh? It's hell being properly chastised.
How dare you you talk about my coworkers that way, jlv, how DARE you! ;)
gilraen, I'm sorry for being incendiary. I grew up in Hells Kitchen, so it comes naturally. Throw water on me whenever you like, just keep the solution of sulphuric acid low enough we don't upset the mods. As long as they can take it, I can.
I'm just going to chalk it up to the GFY girls being too young to know what they're looking at.
Ms Badu has also been onstage in African inspired garb which included towering headwraps, she's been completely bald, then with an Afro (wig) bigger than anything The Sylvers (people "of a certain age" will remember them) ever rocked, and she's also performed in various other homages to 60s-80s Funk.
The thing is that she was onstage. If the GFY girls don't understand the concept of Costume, then that's their shortcoming.
Me? I don't give a damn what Erykah wears.
That woman can sing her ass off.
Ya feel me?
If ya can't, then ya better call Tyrone.

[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2006-10-10 20:21 ]

[ edited by AmazonGirl on 2006-10-10 20:21 ]
I don't think they're too young to know, I think they're too snarky to pass it up :)
AmazonGirl, I"m afraid if I felt you Tyrone would come over and hurt me badly. I like everything Badu do.
*waits for someone to say something about Tyrone Shoelaces*
Oh, no, you don't get me to post in this thread.

Oh, crap, I just did. What was I thinking?

Oh, crap, I just wrote another sentence.

Well, hell, now that I'm here...

I think that GFY is frequently well-written and kinda funny, like this linked entry, but I haven't read it much than a couple handfuls of times -- it's not the sort of thing that I find particularly compelling. Though I am very involved in fashion, and our business creates graphics primarily for the fashion world, to me it feels just a bit like "Mean Girls" meets VIBE Fashion Police or something. Funny, but lacking in heart. Though I know that being heartful ain't exactly their aim, I can get what they've got the way I like it elsewhere...
Pop into GFY a bit more often, and you might be surprised to find the girls a little softer around the edges than first-blush might suggest. Some of my favorite entries are those that find them appalled at an outfit, but spending more time insisting how no one can rock a vintage gown like [the subject] and that no-good boyfriend who ran off with his co-star didn't deserve [the subject] and he'll be sorry when she puts away this mourning mummu in favor of those back-baring beauties she pulls off even better than Halle Berry. But this Livia Soprano tribute, my girl? This will not do.

Sounds just like my best girlfriends and I when we're advising one another on wardrobe, only funnier. I'm a fan. ETA: See this for another example of the soft, chewy center of the Fug Girls at work.

(And is it wrong that I felt a little pride at seeing Grace Park from BSG fugged there today, as I did when Summer was featured? If you've been fugged, there's no doubt you've arrived. Nice.)

[ edited by barest_smidgen on 2006-10-10 22:38 ]
Damn straight, barest_smidgen! Grace Park's rocks. I'm in lust...er..love with that actress. And "Fug" is a total rip off of "frack". Just saying.....
barest_smidgen, that was a great link to show both that GFY gives the good as well as the bad, and also to show a really fine lookin' woman. (Does it mess with my head that she is more than 3 times my age? Gods, yes. *reflects on attitudes about age differences, 'cause, damn, the woman's fine lookin'*) ;-)

zeitgeist, you got my back, and it's all good. You so *rock*, and that's why I love my mods. (I also love jlv, and I know he's good at heart, too.) All of the above is said in the most manly way, BTW. ;-)
Hey! Quit hitting on my man, billz. Or, I'll smack you with a rolled up copy of Mercedes McNab's Playboy. ;P

And you are so right about Helen Mirren. She's one smokin' dame. And since you found that example of the Reverse Fug helpful, here's another one I like.
Helen Mirren is the veritable apex of womanhood.

A friend once told me I reminded him of Ms. Mirren (I am unlike her as can be in everything but encroaching age) but that comment made me seriously HIGH for a week.

She can brush her hair away from her face and make it as fascinating as a trip down the Nile.

She is my lady-crush of the decade.
This site is too white. Not that I'm not that, but I'm sorry, it is. Nobody picked up on either my or AmazonGirl's explanation of the costume.
My Funkadelic reference was a nod to George Clinton.
Thank you, barest_smidgen, for giving me a more age-appropriate person to crush on, and photographic evidence of why I should. She's still older than me, which is just fine, but at least it's within a respectable 2 decades or less. *crushes on Kate Winslet* ;-)

And zeitgeist and I are just good friends. Really. Nothing to worry about there. And the wink that follows is just to show that I'm in a good, happy mood, as usual when I post. Really. ;-)

[ edited by billz on 2006-10-11 07:31 ]
I don't like Go Fug Yourself much, but I do like gazing upon some Funkadelic threads


Sorry I missed that.
Just so you know you're not all alone on the Mothership.
This site is too white. Not that I'm not that, but I'm sorry, it is. Nobody picked up on either my or AmazonGirl's explanation of the costume.


dreamlogic, I picked up on them. I didn't comment beyond the Tyrone's-gonna-hurt-me 'cause I'm already in trouble on this thread. But you're right. I posted seven Stevie Wonder references and a Minnie Riperton in the last two days and no one picked up on any of them.

And no one laughed at my Curtis Mayfield/Marvin Gaye joke on the other thread. OK, that wasn't funny. Bad example. And though I've known some other-than-white folk who didn't care for Ms. Badu, nobody doesn't like George Clinton, Pointy my man.

Seriously though, most posts aren't responded to. It doesn't automatically follow that no one understood the reference. People refrain from commenting on most of my posts but I don't assume they don't understand them. And since most of the characters in Joss Whedon's work are white, it seems to me it would follow that most of the discussion would revolve around white actors, etc. Just as most discussions of Curtis Mayfield's music are centered on black issues and experience. It never occurred to me to think Stevie Wonder, the closest thing to a hero I have, is too black for singing "you nappy-headed boy".
I will not tell you, jaynelovesvera, exactly how long it took me to stop looking for the Stevie Wonder references.
I totally understand what you're talking about, jvl. Nobody usually responds to my posts, and I usually assume they're just bored. But it kind of disturbed me when AmazonGirl's post wasn't responded to, because it was so emphatic and specific, while being totally in tune with Whedonesque tone. Not asking for anything. But expecting recognition, in the tune. That's what I got. I might be wrong.
I name checked you back on the thread of doom, dreamlogic. But gotta tell you, "mystery operator?" Scary.
OK, just say it, Pointy. How crazy do you think I am?
Not at all, really. It was just like watching Dr. Strange combat some mysterious force. He invokes something I entirely do not understand, like the Hoary Hosts of Hogwarts, and it either works or it doesn't. So: "mystery operator." Yeah. Mystery to me, at least. More power to you, fellow dweller in the nerdish realm, if I may be so bold as to identify you as such.
Absolutely a nerd, admitted, put into evidence. Can you help me explain why the whiteness of this thread is not such a good thing? At least you understood P-Funk.

[ edited by dreamlogic on 2006-10-11 09:33 ]
I'm trying to think, but nothing's coming. G'night. (And if you are so inclined, perhaps you would like to go to the Thread of Good Feelings and logically explain Joss's greatness.) Slainte.
Let me remind people here that posters are under no obligation to respond to comments no matter how interesting or relevant they are. Comments that try to quantify why this happens are disingenuous to say the least.
I will not tell you, jaynelovesvera, exactly how long it took me to stop looking for the Stevie Wonder references.


Pointy, So sorry. I wish I'd realized you'd take me seriously. Do I do thoughtless stuff like that often? I guess lately that's all I do. I'll have a talk with God today to straighten myself out. Don't you worry 'bout a thing, you aint done nothin' to deserve such treatment. You should hit me so hard it leaves a contusion and knocks me off my feet. Forgive my thoughtlessness and I'll be overjoyed. From the bottom of my heart it will not happen again, that's signed sealed and delivered. Oh by the way, did you really not like Mercedes' pics? That girl may look victimised to you , but isn't she lovely?

That's 13 Stevies and one Minnie. I should be ahead for awhile.

[ edited by jaynelovesvera on 2006-10-11 22:47 ]
Oh, so it's Cultural Reference Poker we're playing, is it, jlv? OK, I'll see your 11 Stevies, and raise you -- ah, hell, I got nothin'. *folds* ;-)
billz, don't fold yet--I can't even count. That post has 13 Stevies, not 11.
hit me so hard it leaves a contusion


That's Stevie Wonder?

Thought it was Squeeze . . .
I didn't realize your comment needed decoding :) I got it, so I guess I just assumed everyone got it and moved on. I followed on with a Cheech & Chong reference and no one pointed it out- figured it was at least a semi-appropriate follow-on since he was busted at the end of '03 for smoking (cocaine in this case, but, hey).
Only a few more posts and this one'll be longer than the Thank Joss thread... /ducks the rotten tomatoes

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