When I heard that, I was like "awww, how cute" and then I thought "wait, didn't Rack say that to Willow?" then I freaked cause that was so messed up.

MySerenity | October 12, 18:24 CET

never liked the senctence. strawberries just have eight different kinds of aroma compounds, not enough for a multi-layered character as willow (coffee has over a thousand).

besides, I never liked the scene either: it's this old equation: guy on drugs = freedom and choice (lou reed), girl on drugs = prostitute (every drug-movie on the world)

[ edited by bookworm on 2006-10-12 16:29 ]

bookworm | October 12, 18:25 CET

I liked the strawberries reference ... it's also literal because there was fresh fruit at Kate's "forced" (if I'm getting the timeline right) breakfast with Ben on the beach, and strawberries could have been among them. Poor Sawyer, stuck now with the "You taste like fish biscuits" moniker.

Tonya J | October 12, 18:38 CET

I saw Drew's name on the episode, and when the line came, I grinned, proud to be a minion.

k8cre8 | October 12, 19:16 CET

Damn! I knew the line sounded familiar when I heard it, but I didn't make the connection (even though I had seen Goddard's credit). Bad, bad Buffy fan!

jam2 | October 12, 19:26 CET

I'm really a bad fan. The first thing I thought of was Kaylee. ;-)

billz | October 12, 19:45 CET

Tv.com has the quote on their website episode so I changed the URL accordingly.

Simon | October 12, 20:02 CET

Man, I didn't notice that at all. I feel really bad now.

Resolute | October 12, 20:04 CET

You feel bad? I had to google the quote. For some reason I thought it was Spike or Angelus that said it. And Drew Goddard, I adore his writing.

Simon | October 12, 20:13 CET

I laughed out loud when that line was spoken. My mother was like, "Why is that funny?" I knew Drew was winking at us!

Charmuse | October 12, 20:48 CET

Can't wait to watch this on the ol' DTiVo, knowing its by (Ultimate!) Drew makes it even more highly anticipated!

zeitgeist | October 12, 21:01 CET

I looked at my daughters and immediately commented about it being a Buffy shout out. I had also noticed Drew's name at the beginning and new it had to be a nod for us. And I loved Kate's come back! It was a great episode.

Firefly Flanatic | October 12, 21:04 CET

We died laughing when he said that. Plus, the nod to Stephen King in the opener. I love my fandoms!

ctofine | October 12, 21:32 CET

Yes, I loved the King reference. But I thought it would have been more fitting if they'd been reading The Langoliers (albeit maybe too obvious) instead of Carrie.

Tonya J | October 12, 21:37 CET

I hated last night's episode. It's nearly convinced me to stop watching Lost. The Sawyer/Kate is nauseating. Sawyer is Spike v.2.

cityof | October 12, 21:43 CET

Wait, I must have missed something. I've been trying to figure out what King book they'd been reading in the premier, hoping it was one of the Gunslinger books but convinced it was probably The Stand. But you're telling me it was Carrie? Where did we learn that?

Haunt | October 12, 21:44 CET

The Sawyer/Kate is nauseating. Sawyer is Spike v.2.

You say that as if it's a bad thing. ;)

But seriously, Spike (as much as I love him) is hardly the first "bad boy" character ever written.

Haunt | October 12, 21:49 CET

I rewatched the episode on the network (are they ABC?) website for free. The book was much more obvious in the opening book club meeting scene than on my television (go figure). One of the Others-bookclub-members has it on their lap and it's turned kind of sideways. I'm 99.99999% sure it said Carrie.

Tonya J | October 12, 21:51 CET

I believe there were strawberries at her breakfast o'doom with Ben. It was a neat little nod to BtVS, though.

Meltha | October 12, 22:06 CET

This might help, re: the book, Carrie.

zeitgeist | October 12, 23:05 CET

This was also the second episode to feature an actress from "Deadwood". Kim Dickens (Deadwood's Joanie Stubbs) appeared in "The Long Con" and "The Glass Ballerina" featured Paula Malcomson (Trixie). I do like it when favourite worlds collide. Now if only someone would taste like canned peaches and unauthorized cinnamon.

bloodflowers | October 12, 23:06 CET

Hmmmm. The Village. I would liken it more to The Village of the Damned than Shyamalan's flick.

Tonya J | October 12, 23:29 CET

The strawberry line, unfortunately, was so cliche in the situation I wanted to slap my TV. I once did that, though, and it hurt.

gossi | October 12, 23:52 CET

zeitgeist, in the comments section of the page you linked to it's claimed each member is holding a different King book. That would limit their numbers--no additions till King gets off his keister and publishes another book, which shouldn't be long.

Tonya J, at least they don't evoke the Village People.

ETA: My only problem with Fury's script for "Grave" was I thought, instead of yellow, Xander should have brought up Willow's strawberry-scented crayons to add a different meaning to Rack's strawberries remark: He was smelling her innocence, still lurking in their somewhere.

They don't make strawberry-scented crayons?--could of used candles--David is supposed to be a professional and think of these things.

[ edited by jaynelovesvera on 2006-10-12 22:01 ]

[ edited by jaynelovesvera on 2006-10-12 22:05 ]

jaynelovesvera | October 12, 23:53 CET

The strawberry line, unfortunately, was so cliche in the situation I wanted to slap my TV. I once did that, though, and it hurt.

Not to worry. Your head-sized condom will protect you.

When I saw that scene, I thought "that's either a shout out to Buffy fans, or Drew Goddard has run out of original dialogue."

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2006-10-12 22:45 ]

Nebula1400 | October 13, 00:45 CET

My head sized condom? That belongs to the band-who-sound-like-Nerf, I'm afraid.

gossi | October 13, 00:53 CET

My day is complete.

Nebula1400 | October 13, 00:59 CET

Nebula1400, nice day's work. Buy yourself a treat tonight--maybe strawberries?

jaynelovesvera | October 13, 01:06 CET

Only past about 50 or so. That's how many novels & short story compilations the man has published!

I immediately recognized the line, but didn't think about it being a shout-out from DG until now. *redface*

And yeah, Sawyer does kind of remind me of Spike too - all gorgeous, sexy and snarky and just a little bit dangerous.
A real turn-off, all right ;)

anindoorkitty | October 13, 01:10 CET

They're all reading different books? Whoever heard of a book club doing that. [/pedant] Where is that website getting that information ... this is the kind of convoluted logic from the writers, etc. that puts people right off Lost. I liked what Drew did very much, and I'm praying he's responsible for the homage to Cool Hand Luke as well because it just tickled me. A part that Josh Holloway was to the manor born to play. Not to mention the baseball game and shout out to Chris Reeve. And mmmmm, strawberries (so I'm not off topic).

[ edited by Tonya J on 2006-10-12 23:13 ]

Tonya J | October 13, 01:12 CET

Surely that's more of a shudder-inducingly creepy shoutout than a nice one?

Craig Oxbrow | October 13, 01:48 CET

I'm not so sure. It seemed as though Chris being included as a part of American history that Jack could relate to (as part of Ben's story about The Others being connected to the outside world) was a hugely kind gesture. That or Chris' tangential connection to their Village of the Damned set up on the island (CR appeared in the remake not too long ago). In which case, CREEPY.

Tonya J | October 13, 01:53 CET

Hm, if it's Carrie I'm kinda disappointed. I was curious about that Desperation and The Regulators thing, where he and his pen name both wrote novels featuring basically the same cast and story but from different angles (and locations, and plot, and other stuff). It seemed to fit my own theory of Lost at least, but whatever...

orangewaxlion | October 13, 02:03 CET

My theory of Lost involves the rest of Homer Simpson turning up, to go with his foot in last seasons finale. He will turn out to be the island's security system.

gossi | October 13, 02:11 CET

D'oh!

(but that theory would certainly explain how the fate of the world could rely on some man-monkey typing numbers into a computer every 108 minutes) ;-)

billz | October 13, 02:41 CET

Haunt, that is true, but I don't know how many of them were selfish murderers/serial theifs that were seemingly unremorseful yet are forced down our throats as good guys. Kate was my favorite character but now the writers are playing the "girls like jerks" card that I find disturbing and anti-feminist. How many more times is he going to grab and force her to kiss him because of the perception that she just won't admit she wants it? There's so many wrong themes in Sawyer/Kate that it's starting to not be a fun show to watch anymore.

[ edited by cityof on 2006-10-13 00:43 ]

cityof | October 13, 02:43 CET

strawberries==I thought of Kaylee--never having watched Buffy or Angel

aaww even I laughed when Benny told Jack the Red Sox won the world series--I knew he wouldnt believe it

I am from Boston and its still hard to believe

rivergirl | October 13, 02:54 CET

Let me just take this opportunity to remind people that our rules on shipping can be found here. And no coded attacks, perceived or otherwise. Feel free to take issue with what I said via email only.

I now return you to the Buffy shoutout on Lost and the interesting discussion on Stephen King. It. The Stand. Salem's Lot. America's finest novels of the late 20th century.

Simon | October 13, 02:58 CET

The Buffy shoutout was just the cherry, er, strawberry, on top of an overall delectable epi.

The first two epis of this season have been fantastic. I thought they lost (apologises for bad pun)their way a bit last year, but if the beginning of this season is an indicator, this year will be stellar.

Reddygirl | October 13, 03:02 CET

Interesting, cityof. First, b/c I agree with Simon that this discussion is getting dangerously close to shipping, I want to say I'm not a Kate/Sawyer shipper, but I do want to discuss what I think the intent of the plot is. (Lost is SO open to interpretation!) I thought the kiss was not "forced," that the "grab" part of the kiss was because they were told not to touch or even talk to each other, and it was all a ruse for Sawyer to observe the reactions of the Others anyway. I might need to go to the ABC website and rewatch the ep (I did that with the season opener, too, and I also noticed they were reading Carrie, heh).

BTW, I hate those "she wants the jerk, and is waiting for him to push her into it" plots, too. It is disturbing indeed. Again, not to ship, just to point out a plot I like and find pro-feminist IMO: I'd contrast that to Veronica Mars, where VM had the boring nice guy (who, really, was perfectly OK), was slowly wooed (heh, woo!) by the supposed jerk till she found his creamy, chewy center, and now is receiving really good lovin' both emotionally and, er, more demonstrably. In this case, IMO, "she wants the jerk to be a better man, and lo he has become that (but he is still ready to go pro in the lovemaking department, woo!)." I just had to leave that last "woo" un-inviso-ed, for all the woo fans in this thread. ;-)

billz | October 13, 03:07 CET

I'll just say that hating Lost for any Kate/Sawyer 'ship isn't much of an improvement over the fans that said the Buffy/Spike 'ship was the only good thing about it.

But I digress...

I'm curious where that website comes up with the idea that each person in that book club had a different book. Seems unlikely since a) no self-respecting book club does that, and b) there seemed to be some serious contention over the choice of whatever book it was (still wishing it was The Gunslinger) since Ben would never have been caught even reading it in the bathroom. Doesn't seem to me there'd be much of a problem is everyone was just reading their own damn book.

As for the strawberry line, it initially tickled me as being nothing more than a shoutout to Whedonists. But when you consider where the quote is originally from, it does make you shudder just a little bit.

ETA: And I completely agree with billz about the purpose of the kiss. Sure, Sawyer's an obnoxious button-pusher and the idea of groping Kate and annoying her probably didn't hurt, but ultimately he did it to force their captors to make a move.

As for girls wanting the "bad boys"... cliche or not, troubling stereotype or not, it also happens to have a degree of basis in reality. It happens, kids. Not ALL women follow the pattern, but there are those that do. Enough to cause this to become a stereotype in the first place.

But whatever, it's all opinion. So far it hasn't bothered me. I don't expect political correctness in all aspects of my entertainment, so if this is "anti-femenist", then shame on 'em. But I'm still watching.

[ edited by Haunt on 2006-10-13 01:21 ]

Haunt | October 13, 03:15 CET

billz, I agree with your interpretation of the kiss.

Reddygirl | October 13, 03:22 CET

It's my view that whatever people are thinking is going on with Kate and Sawyer isn't, as far her being forced to go along. Kate is far smarter and far more dangerous than Sawyer could ever hope to be. We've seen that in her back story more than once. Don't feel sorry for Kate. We're being set up. Kate is attracted to Sawyer but did you see her roll her eyes after they're back in their cages when she asked him why he did it? ("Oh, you just looked so cute in that dress with a pick in your hands" ... or something like that) That's when you can see pure regret that she let herself slip into his arms again.

Jack, at least from the whole buildup from Season 1 [remember the avalanche at the caves where he was buried and Kate was frantic?] is her intellectual equal and her soul mate in most respects. I don't know why but they have had a connection from the very first time they met on the island. So, we'll see. I'm prepared to be shocked, amazed, even nauseated.

Tonya J | October 13, 03:24 CET

when i heard that quote last night i thought it was mere coincidence.

i was happily wrong.

i've always loved that quote.

groonk | October 13, 04:17 CET

As a young man in my late teens/early twenties it quickly became apparent to me that my buddy Jimmy was doing very much better with women than I. One time I asked him what his secret was, that I would see him with several new girls a week. He told me he played at projecting a "bad boy" image, even though he clearly wasn't. At this point stupid me realized that his persona was indeed different whenever he was with a girl or in their environs.

After much consternation (5 minutes) I decided to follow his lead and developed a back story of delinquency when younger and "borrowing" the occasional car, and projected as much "dangerousness" as milquetoast me could muster. My success rate with females I approached went up signifcantly. True story. Draw your own conclusions, if any.

jaynelovesvera | October 13, 05:41 CET

I was never one for bad boys. All the guys in my life have been certifiable nerds and geeks.

Nebula1400 | October 13, 06:38 CET

It's not that women love bad boys. It's that we love bad boys who love us and will change into good boys for us (even if they are snarly and nasty to the rest of the world). And that usually only applies to fictional characters once women get past the age of 25.

One of the things that strikes me about Lost is that Sawyer is a very stereotypical fictional bad boy, but Jack is a very real flesh-and-blood flawed man. He scares me much more than Sawyer does because he is so controlling. Hopefully one day Jack will realize the reason he feels compelled to fix everybody else is because he himself is a very broken man.

Reddygirl | October 13, 06:51 CET

I know this is an old thread, but I just saw the episode and realized how much I miss Goddard. (I don't watch Alias, so didn't see any of his work last year.) I'm trying to think of a time when I enjoyed a Lost episode this much. There are still some problems I think, mostly that Sayid once again fails to think strategically, just as he did in the finale. But I enjoyed both the Sawyer/Kate scenes and the Jin/Sun/Sayid dynamic.

Drew being Drew though, the "You taste like strawberries" is definitely a shoutout, and probably also a foreshadowy statement about Kate's potential for darkness. 'Cause like Willow, I can see one tiny piece of metal transforming her from "cute" to something freaking scary.

WilliamTheB | October 18, 09:18 CET