Sarah Michelle Gellar's "The Grudge 2" Hits Theaters Today.
The horror sequel hopes to match the original's box office. (Minor Spoilers in thread)
Quite a few people here know my feelings on the first -- didn't like it at all. I saw 'Grudge 2' last night. My feelings? A little more story, a lot more boring. The acting is pretty poor outside of Amber Tamblyn. Sarah's total screen time equals maybe three minutes.
October 13 2006
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GaveUp | October 13, 01:39 CET
Simon | October 13, 02:16 CET
GaveUp | October 13, 02:32 CET
I plan to go and see the sequel, but I'm not sure how I'll deal with it in the absence of SMG's calming presence.
chosenkitty | October 13, 02:36 CET
billz | October 13, 03:34 CET
Simon
Ditto. I'm planning to see Grudge 2 as soon as possible, even though the ads don't make it look as good as the first one.
[ edited by dreamlogic on 2006-10-13 10:39 ]
dreamlogic | October 13, 03:37 CET
Simon | October 13, 04:17 CET
Review
jerryst3161 | October 13, 04:38 CET
I've become a bit skittish about these kinds of movies of late, but I dunno how i can resist now. Does that happen to you when someone you know/knew was involved? You just have to have a look, right?
barest_smidgen | October 13, 08:02 CET
gossi | October 13, 09:57 CET
Buffyfantic | October 13, 10:01 CET
And for anyone who's seen The Grudge 2's trailer -- it has every single scare in the movie. There's not a single scare that's unspoiled by that trailer.
The Dark Shape | October 13, 10:05 CET
Watched Nick Brendon's 'Pinata: Survival Island'. Wouldn't mind getting that hour and a half back.
(though in fairness he and Jaime Pressly were both fine)
I'd imagine i'll check out the Grudges sometime soon (though I think some of the Japanese horror remakes have been a bit 'meh').
Saje | October 13, 10:07 CET
Really liked how it was handled, I believe this happenned because the series creator also directs this second installment.
Don't know how western "happy endings" public will react to how to the way the movie ends. Just like the first one, our heroine attempt to stop the curse just fails drastically. Worse it just made everything worse. But the tone is even worse that the first one.
If the first movie was about "what happenned", this follow up was about "how and why".
At the end it's all about the rage, or what the title says "The Grudge". No hero has been enough to stop it.
I rewatched the first one the night before I went to watch the second, and still amazes me how the movie grew on me. And the first one has really become one of my favorite horror movies from the latest years. And the hollywood version has melded well the western and eastern sensibilities."
Just at small add:
Was I the only one sort of creeped out watch this movie trailer, where the Flamingos' "I Only Have Eyes For You", played during SMG's shots.
It makes me wonder if the trailer editor was actually a Buffy fan. Because that song was in "I Only Have Eyer for You" (IMHO one of Marti Noxon best episodes in the whole series), which plot delves into continous cycles caused by a tragedy in Sunnydale High.
[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2006-10-13 17:15 ]
Numfar PTB | October 13, 10:07 CET
Suspense my eye! The first one was one of the scariest films I've ever seen at the cinema... I was hiding behind my knees!
flugufrelsarinn | October 13, 10:18 CET
People booed last night when the credits rolled, and I've heard about it happening elsewhere.
The Dark Shape | October 13, 10:23 CET
Remakes can be homage like Psycho, but I have problems with that film too, even though Van Sant's work on it was masterful. The Manchurian Candidate had a modern setting which gave it a whole new twist. I won't talk about The Omen. To say I'm reluctant to watch it is an understatement.
And just to throw in, two of my favorite Asian horror films are Cure and A Tale of Two Sisters.
[ edited by Tonya J on 2006-10-13 17:36 ]
Tonya J | October 13, 10:35 CET
(Oh, and Tonya J--A Tale of Two Sisters is one of my favourite films ever!)
Skyla Dawn | October 13, 11:20 CET
Saje, re: films/remakes, my personal scores, FWIW:
Ringu-----90
The Ring-----85
The Ring 2-----30
original Dark Water-----?
Dark Water-----30
Psycho-----100
van Sant Psycho-----65
The Wicker Man-----90
Wicker Man Remake-----30
Juon-----80
The Grudge-----80
The Grudge 2-----?
jaynelovesvera | October 13, 11:49 CET
People booed last night when the credits rolled, and I've heard about it happening elsewhere.
I thought the film opened today (Friday). Was it shown in cinemas yesterday? The Dark Shape, just out of curiosity, I seem to recall that you didn't like the first film at all. What made you decide to go to see the sequel (I take it from your comment that you saw it last night)?
alien lanes | October 13, 11:51 CET
Although why he watched Voodoo Moon I don't know ;)
Here's the thing with The Grudge - yes, it's all about somebody walking into a room, some suspense, and not much happening. Some people like that. Given the first film was easily SMG's most profitable motion picture - enough to warrant a sequel, no less, I'd imagine that's a lot of people who enjoy it. And fair play to them.
gossi | October 13, 11:58 CET
I saw The Grudge 2 because I don't want to be a hypocrite. I've talked a lot of crap in my day, there's no denying that. If I went message board to message board debating about the movie (which I feel is cheap, popcorn horror) without even seeing it, that'd be pretty low on my part. I at least want to be informed when I talk about something.
Here's another major problem with the film:
MAJOR SPOILERS
(don't know how to spoiler tag - (no but I do - Simon )
There's no reason for Amber Tamblyn or Sarah Michelle Gellar to be here. Once the plot threads start coming together, you realize this whole story revolves around the three badly-acted school girls going into the house, eventually leading to the curse's relocation. Amber basically just takes up screen time, doing nothing and having nothing to do with the outcome of the movie.
END SPOILERS
[ edited by Simon on 2006-10-13 20:14 ]
The Dark Shape | October 13, 12:04 CET
The movie doesn't translate well. I'm under the impression that the vengful spirit type plot that the movie revolves around is japanese folklore, as mentioned in the first film (I think). The problem is there is no counterpart to that over here so it lacks a good anchor point. It doesn't prey on any rational/irrational fears. Just as an example, I remember when the Blair Witch came out. That movie freaked a lot of people out, but it preyed on a fear that anyone who has ever been in the woods is familiar with ... the unexplainable sounds and the like that start to play tricks on your mind. Another example, Freddy. As comical as the character is and has become the movies tend to still work because they center are 2 fears, being helpless while asleep and a guy that goes after your children. Anyway, back to The Grudge, because there's no real fear that's exploited, and because of the format of the movie, you, or at least I, am to concerned to trying to make heads or tails of the story to be affected by whatever else is in the film.
FWIW, here they had a free 7pm showing Thursday. Apparently some local used video and gaming stores were given a bunch of tickets in exchange for hanging up a poster or some such.
GaveUp | October 13, 13:15 CET
[ edited by garda39 on 2006-10-13 20:18 ]
garda39 | October 13, 13:17 CET
It's not just Japanese folklore--it's that the backstory is rooted in Japanese culture as well, and (thankfully, IMO), not explained to death in the film. Kayako was a woman living in modern-day Japan in an old, tradional Japanese household, where women were not treated as equal, and when murdered by her abusive husband, her anger at not having a normal life became a stain upon the home--a curse, or grudge. That could have been altered slightly to fit more with Western beliefs--here we have stories about haunted houses and ghosts too--but I think the reason the film may not have translated well is because it was as much of a commentary on that particular aspect of old Japanese culture than anything else.
Skyla Dawn | October 13, 13:45 CET
I am probably just being really dumb and misunderstanding what you mean, but I'm not clear how not watching something you are unlikely to derive any enjoyment from would make you a hypocrite. Do you go to see all the films you think you're not going to like so that you can debate their lack of worth on message boards, or is it because you have to (what gossi said about you working in the film business), in which case I guess it must get a bit dispiriting if you continually have to watch films you get no enjoyment out of.
I can't comment about the merits or otherwise of 'The Grudge 2' (it's not out over here until next weekend), but I'm easily pleased in general, I liked 'The Grudge', 'Ju-on: The Grudge' and 'Ju-on: The Grudge 2' (and various other similiar Japanese and Korean films), and I like Gellar, so I'll probably go in with a biased disposition towards liking it.
alien lanes | October 13, 13:51 CET
She died at the end of the first film (or was in the process of dying), as you might recall. Grudge 2 conveniently forgets the first movie's final scene.
The Dark Shape | October 13, 14:27 CET
The Grudge 2 tries to explain it a little more -- something to with Kayako's mother and extracting evil spirits. Frankly, it sounds way too Sadako-like and has nothing to do with the movie.
The Dark Shape | October 13, 14:28 CET
gossi | October 13, 14:53 CET
Including crap like When a Stranger Calls and Stay Alive. Ugh.
The Dark Shape | October 13, 14:58 CET
She died at the end of the first film (or was in the process of dying), as you might recall. Grudge 2 conveniently forgets the first movie's final scene.
Are you serious? Did we watch the same film? Even the creators said they weren't going to reveal whether or not she died at the end of the first film after the film had been released. They left it somewhat open ended for a reason. It's like what Joss did with the season 5 finale of Angel. Are we to assume that because something horrific does happen or is about to happen, Angel dies?
It's explained in the second what actually happened and why she's there and why Amber Tamblyn's (her sister) character goes to find her. I don't want to spoil it...but there's a definite reason why Sarah's character is in the second and is still alive, part of that reason being that she burned down the house but survived and was then taken to the hospital. Whatever happens at the end of the first film is ambiguous...we don't know whether or not she dies. We just see Kayako, a close up of her face and then the film ends. She could have been hallucinating that Kayako was after her. In fact we do realize that it was an hallucination considering she's in the mental ward of the hospital because 1. she's a bit looney and 2. the people at the hospital believe she's a looney (especially since she burned down the house and "killed her boyfriend"). Of course she's also being haunted by Kayako. Her sister gets sent to Japan by their mother to bring her back. That's a pretty legitimate reason why Aubrey goes to Japan to see Karen.
There are scenes in the film where a person walks into a room and something terrible actually happens. There are also scenes where a character isn't certain what he/she is seeing. There are scenes where yes, it's just suspense but most of it isn't cheap thrills. Takashi Shimizu is all about creating atmosphere...just because the atmosphere makes the audience tense and nothing happens doesn't mean it's a cheap scare. My apartment creaks at night and this scares the bejesus out of me because in the film, creaking meant eventually something unnatural was about to happen.
One of the best things about this film is the soundtrack...it's nothing but unnatural and natural sounds woven together. Even the music makes the viewer tense.
The part with Kayako's mother has everything to do with the film. It basically explains why Kayako's grudge is so terrible. Her mother used to take evil spirits out of other people and put them inside her. The mother states that it was Kayako's fault that it came about (she was foolish and was killed by her husband because of her foolishness). The saying is that the grudge is born when someone dies in a rage. The reason why Kayako's grudge is especially terrible is because her mother poisoned her with these spirits as a child.
Kyotoyoshi | October 13, 16:36 CET
Somebody totally needs to ask Joss what he thought of When a Stranger Calls.
gossi | October 13, 17:39 CET
If Angel ended with a massive demon right behind Angel, swinging a battle ax and the episode cuts to black just as the blade meets neck, yep, I'd assume Angel dies. The Grudge ended with Kayako right behind Sarah Michelle Gellar (including that hilarious rapid close-up of her eye). She's dead. It's a twist to make you go, "Ohmygod!" Then when the sequel comes around, it's forgotten. Hardly unusual for the horror industry. Just look at a number of Friday the 13ths.
[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2006-10-14 00:57 ]
The Dark Shape | October 13, 17:57 CET
GaveUp | October 13, 18:08 CET
The Dark Shape | October 13, 18:12 CET
That happened to Giles and he survived, although it wasnt a huge demon that swung the battle ax. But we all know that Giles is tougher than Angel, right?
I did like The Grudge for the scary moments, but it did have its problems in my estimation. I would bet (I havent seen it yet) that The Grudge 2 has some problems too, but if its frightening then im ok with it.
jerryst3161 | October 13, 18:15 CET
The Dark Shape | October 13, 18:23 CET
alien lanes | October 13, 18:41 CET
ETA: That was some interesting grammar there...
[ edited by jerryst3161 on 2006-10-14 01:48 ]
jerryst3161 | October 13, 18:43 CET
The Dark Shape | October 13, 19:01 CET
[ edited by Impossible on 2006-10-14 03:01 ]
Impossible | October 13, 20:01 CET
Kyotoyoshi | October 13, 21:01 CET
The Dark Shape | October 13, 22:26 CET
jaynelovesvera, (also FWIW ;) more or less agree with your scores on the originals that i've seen (i'd maybe put 'Ringu' a bit higher but that's partly because it was the first Asian horror movie i'd seen so that particular brand of disturbing was new to me) and 'The Ring' was not bad, IMO (not seen 'The Ring 2') but I can't comment on Van Sant's 'Psycho' or 'The Wicker Man' remake because I just can't bring myself to watch them. When I heard the 'Psycho' remake was a scene for scene recreation I thought 'Okkaay, didn't Alfred frikkin Hitchcock ! (TM) already do that ?'. I'm being a bit unfair cos i've not seen it but those are pretty big shoes to fill, IMO.
With 'Wicker Man', I dunno, I just don't see the remake capturing the kind of oppressive edginess of the original as well as the fact that ancient pagan rituals don't really fly in an American setting (though I think it's at least worthy of a remake since it's not the masterpiece that 'Psycho' is - and possibly they've gone down an ancient native American rituals route or similar).
(maybe 'Psycho' shouldn't have 100%. I mean there has to be something wrong with it ? Right ? ... nope, i've got nothing ;)
Saje | October 14, 06:13 CET
A (to me) intersting sidenote is that unlike films today, when so much alternate footage is shot so that fuzzy-minded directors and interested-party suits can make creative changes in editing--and have extra crap for the DVD--Hitchcock's meticulous planning, made possible by his unparalleled ability to visualize, allowed him to shoot only what he wanted in the film, often infuriating producers like Selznick, who wanted their finger in the pie.
I occasionally contrast Joss' absent, neglectful or criminal fathers (save Fred's--gotta love Mr. Burkle) with Hitchcock's strong, sometimes domineering mothers. I don't know, though, the Jossian equivalent of Hitchcock having someone take a shot of brandy in every film.
And both have a fondness for oners, which recalls a theory of mine. I suspect the title Goners is a working title only, because viewed in many fonts it looks a lot like " 6 oners ". Not serious about that, but Hitchcock's Rope consisted entirely of 10 minute oners, the most one could get out of a reel of film at that time.
[ edited by jaynelovesvera on 2006-10-14 14:19 ]
jaynelovesvera | October 14, 07:17 CET
[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2006-10-14 21:31 ]
The Dark Shape | October 14, 14:28 CET
I dont know, the movie Major League is flawless to me. My all time favorite movie is perfect I believe. But hey...I could be wrong.
jerryst3161 | October 14, 16:21 CET
Ohhhhh, I'm adding that to my list of probably-wrong-but-you-never-know theories about Goners. Simon recently dug out a TV project Joss did about magic-coming-back which predates Firefly (and possibly got squished by Firefly), and I've been wondering if that could have been Goners related to. So, to summary it up, Goners is clearly about 6 oneshots about magic coming back and affecting society. Or not.
gossi | October 14, 17:00 CET
jaynelovesvera | October 14, 17:39 CET