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October 28 2006

Who would you prefer to live with? Buffy Summers or Veronica Mars? The writer ponders which TV characters/personalities she would like to live with and which she would avoid in this MSN article. Our favorite Vampire Slayer makes it onto the list.

[ edited by Crypto on 2006-10-28 16:16 ]

Tough...

Veronica Mars. She's more attractive, IMO.

Sorry Joss...but Veronica...just can't go past her.

If I could take both, I would.
I think there's a better chance of me staying alive with Veronica Mars.
I'd live with Veronica because we mesh better.
Veronica, obviously. Buffy has the tendency to attract all kinds of weird shit to her place...evil vampires, worm monsters, gun-toting nerds, witches, etc. Except for maybe the occasional psychotic actor, Veronica doesn't have too many crazed types who would come after her at home (then again, we're only in the 3rd season).

Plus, while Buffy definitely has the edge in weaponry and ass-kicking abilities, VM has better street smarts, which I think are more useful in tackling everyday problems.
Hardly anyone Veronica knows gets murdered, whereas for Buffy it's at least a monthly event...
And you can never celebrate Halloween properly with Buffy. Oh, they say nothing happens that day but we know better.
Oh Buffy, by far. You'd really have to be on your toes and you'd learn a lot about self-protection. Veronica has turned pretty manipulative and morally superior lately and not fun like her Season 1 persona was.
Hardly anyone Veronica knows gets murdered

Hah. Well, besides her best friend, no one CLOSE to her. She knows a fair amount of people who end up dead, but I guess it's all relative... nothing compared to Buffy. :)

Yeah, I would have to pick Veronica. I think she'd be a little easier to get along with.
Veronica or Buffy? Mmm.... Which one would have Spike hanging around? I think I'll go with Buffy.
I'll give you guys the being attacked by monsters thing, but from the perspective of those characters as people, I'd much rather live with Buffy. VM thinks she's "all that," and that would annoy me. Although I think you would never see VM if you lived with her as she seems to like to do 3 things at once. I have the feeling that while you're doing your mundane thing, she's solving 2 crimes and tracking hers (and maybe yours) boyfriend.

[edited for punctuation placement]

[ edited by Caleb on 2006-10-28 19:23 ]
In a heartbeat, Veronica. But mulling it over, I'd put up with Ms Summers to get to know that nice older man that follows her around.
I dunno, Veronica pretty much is 'all that' in my estimation. That girl rules. And I like hanging around cynical people, they make me feel less cynical myself, kinda like someone else is helping me carry the load for the group ;).

They've both got some fairly major issues though. Veronica has a lot of trouble with trust and accepting things at face value, just enjoying the moment - which admittedly are survival traits in her 'verse - and Buffy has (or at least had) the weight of the world on her shoulders to some extent and also sometimes has problems connecting.

On balance, probably Buffy but at least partly because I (narrowly) prefer the scoobs to the Marsettes (Martians ?) though if Keith was also part of the VM posse (along with Wallace and Mac) I could probably be swayed. He da man. Logan's 'little rich boy lost' schtick could get old pretty fast though. Tough choice.

(it'd be hard not to burst out laughing at 'Piz' all the time as well - I mean really, who'd choose that as a nickname for themselves ? Did he learn nothing in high school ? ;)
Come on, rather be with Buffy. She makes Tuesday night interesting.
So, I guess I'm the only one who find Veronica herself incredibly irksome and smug and thinks that I'd end up beating her to death within a week?

Buffy. No question.
No, but you might be the only one who thinks they could actually take her ;-).
Pfft. Saje, don't underestimate my skills. Buffy, I'd be worried about. Veronica? Not so much *g*
Oh I think the world of Buffy, but not only Halloween, even birthdays can't be celebrated. No, I'm sorry, life would be exciting but way too short and dangerous with Buffy. Veronica would keep me safe (and besides, I'm hot for her Dad).
I'm going to pick all of them. Veronica and Buffy can share our guest room, Tim Gunn can take the couch, Jon Stewart will share a room with my son, and we'll throw the cook (probably RR) on the futon in the basement. One big happy, funny, safe, well dressed family who will have kick ass meals. OK, if Jon insists....he can sleep in the master bedroom with me and hubby.
Living with Veronica's dad would probably scare the crap out of me. I'd never know what he's upto. Buffy would be too serious and Veronica would drive me mad. Much in the same way living with Columbo would do as well.

Xander and Mac would be my ideal housemates.
Veronica, without a doubt. I hear Buffy bogarts milk out of the dorm room fridge.
Oh, gosh! Look what we come too.
I'd live with Buffy until she started to make a speech. Or several speeches.

Personally, I'd want to live with Willow. She's gay, so no weirdness there, and she's normally lovely. Except when you kill her lover, then I'd go on holiday.
In a heartbeat, Veronica. But mulling it over, I'd put up with Ms Summers to get to know that nice older man that follows her around.

I'm with you there, Caroline!
Buffy is sweet and well meaning. And I doubt she'd bug your bedroom or watch a video with your personal revelations on it, or put a tracking device on your car. Keith Mars, on the other hand ...
Well, if I had to chose I'd go with Buffy.

But I would really want to go to summer camp with both of them. I know they would protect me from the mean girls.
Buffy, no question there. Sure,there would be more danger, but group hang time would be much more interesting. And how about that weapons chest? Much more practical than the fancy camera and cell phone tracker :)
Buffy. Can you imagine spending some quality time with her watcher and the cursed souled vampire? How about Xander?
Yeah, I choose Buffy.
Wouldn't you always be putting up with demon attacks if you lived with Buffy? Much safer to live with Veronica, plus, you'd have VM and Keith and Backup (a very awesome big dog) when you need some, er backup, and Mac can hookup your virtual world in all kinds of useful ways (as in computer programming, you bad people!). ;-)

ETA: Either way, VM or Buffy, you might catch a glimpse of Charisma *ahem, yes I know* or Alyson when they come to visit. ;-)

[ edited by billz on 2006-10-28 23:36 ]
syd, I too find Veronica to be smug and annoying. Yet Buffy may get speechy. It's a stumper.
I'd take Buffy. I'm a masochist, so I think I'd feel more at home with the demon and vampire attacks. Plus, I think personality-wise I'd just click more with the Scoobies, and I find Buffy more crush worthy. It's probably the superpowers. Those would come in super handy at times, like when you needed help moving your desk around.

Also, in Buffy world, it'd be a lot easier to build cool things like freeze rays and time machines.
Oh, I don't know. Some 20 characters were killed off in the first two seasons of Veronica Mars. Seeing as it's supposed to be more 'real world'...that doesn't seem much safer than living in not-sunny-enough Sunnydale.

Tough choice. I don't think both would work either as they'd likely kill each other. Wait no. Can't kill humans. Okay, so Joss will move in and he'll kill them both. And then bring them back to life, make them say witty things and then kill them again.

Give me Mac and Anya. Bunny-free and free internet!
Buffy. She has super powers! Also, there are many other slayers now, so demonkind has more than her to worry about. That reduces the random monster attack. I would have a harder time choosing between Giles and Keith Mars.
Would I rather live with Buffy or Veronica?

Yes.
Just pondering how times have changed. When I was teenagerish it was all 'Betty or Veronica?'. Now it's all 'Buffy or Veronica'. Well, it's changed by 3 letters anyway.
I say take them both aboard Serenity. I don't know if it would be safer, but less vampires and not so many wealth socal murderers. Plus, we'd be on Serenity.
Good one, holymother! I have to admit, I was Betty all the way :)
Hardly anyone Veronica knows gets murdered, whereas for Buffy it's at least a monthly event...

I once read in an article towards that came out in Mayish that in 44 episodes of Veronica Mars 42 people had died, most by murder. So, that being said I was originally going to say Veronica on the fact that you're less likely to die, but now I don't know... If it's later Buffy when she's running the free bed-and-breakfast, then no. But for pure entertainment purposes, Buffy.
Biff isn't being fair. If he took Buffy and Veronica onboard Serenity, then he would also get to add on Inara, Zoe, and Kaylee. (And Captain Tightpants for when Caroline is visiting.)
Buffy. Love the Buffy.

But Veronica can come over for, uh, slumber parties.
I can see it now; there's a squabble between Veronica, Buffy and Faith:
"Sorry, I just don't see you sleeping with my boyfriend, F."
"Well, B, show me what you got."
"Now ladies, no need to go Rambo on each other."
Buffy and Faith: "Shut up, V!"
It's actually more likely to run into Joss himself in Veronica's world than Buffy's anyways. In hers you have to open up an interdimensional portal and manage not to get killed as a cow or find yourself involved in yet another Pylean revolution. And while rental car guy does not dance, at least we do get to hear his German!

I honestly don't know who I'd pick. I have a feeling I'd get along with Veronica a bit better, and (I feel like a traitor saying this) I think my Mac-crush is starting to overwhelm my Willow-crush. (Willow likes girls now anyway...that's how I console myself that I'm not a traitor to my Willow love.) Still, I'd love to hang around the Xand-man over Wallace (sorry) and I'd be less afraid of getting shoved up against the wall by Giles as opposed to Keith. Plus there's Anya. So probably Buffy (& friends).

I think my chances of surviving in either case are pretty low. But it's sunnier in SoCal than it is in Ontario anyway. So maybe I'll take my chances.

EDIT: It's really hard to believe that that many people died in VM. Does (pilot spoilers) Lilly count as being murdered during the show, since it happened before the Pilot?

EDIT: Okay, I just checked the numbers by doing a list, just from memory of the episodes. I counted about 30 deaths, give or take, and there were very few "natural causes", though quite a few suicides. The problem is that deaths in Buffy are pretty constant, whereas deaths in VM kind of all happen at once. Basically, you're safe most of the year in Neptune; just watch out if other people start to drop.

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-10-29 04:33 ]

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-10-29 04:43 ]
Veronica. She could help me with my homework. ;) Plus, Logan Echolls? I'm so there.

Why wasn't there an option for "Starbuck" on Battlestar Galactica? I'd set her and Lee up before killing them, so that I can cry for the next three months (offscreen). Yes, I'm psycho. Joss and Buffy S6 has made me spoilt for deep despair.
Well, if I had a "Fantasy-Prone Personality Disorder" -- and I do -- I'd go all out and make up a household with lots of my favourite TV characters.

Buffy for her heart and for kicking ass, Veronica Mars for her brains and strong sense of self, Emma Peel also for kicking ass and to hear her accent on a daily basis, Gregory House for in-house medical care, Rupert Giles as house librarian and my co-partner, Matt Albie as in-house date, Andrew Wells as house video-diarist, Willow Rosenburg for magick and friendship, Tim Canterbury for wisecracks, Phoebe Buffay for massages and philosophy, Xander Harris for so many reasons, Josh Lyman 'cause this is my fantasy, Logan Echolls 'cause ditto, Morticia Adams for gardening and French phrases, Toby Ziegler for flavour and John Drake as live-in bodyguard. We need somebody to cook, but I haven't worked that part out yet. Oh, and that car rental guy from Veronica Mars.

Is that too many people? It's a really big house.

I kinda think I'm like Buffy in "Normal Again" and I keep expecting to wake up in TV-land and realize that that's my real life, and not this illusory one.
I'd be more interested in sidekick-dom than a living arrangement. Could I live in the Buffyverse and still not have a roommate?
Let's see Veronica's best friend had her brains bashed in, a schoolbus full of classmates gets sent over a cliff, her boyfriend with the psycho father and the suicide alcoholic mother gets arrested for murders he didn't commit twice, her new best friend gets accused of a hit and run, her drug-dealing former boyfriend gets accused of a rape he didn't commit, her alcoholic mother is run out of town, and now practically every female she talks to on campus gets raped. Nah, nothing bad happens to people around Veronica.

I'm with those who find Veronica becoming smug and irksome. What's worse, the show has become smug and self-satisfied, and I'm getting pretty fed up with the current feminist-baiting that's substituting for plot. It's sad actually with what this show is come to that it is seen as a successor to Buffy. The Buffyverse was all about people (or other entities) coming together to protect each other and the world, whether it was Buffy and the Scoobies, or the Angel Investigations team. Veronica Mars was about Veronica as the loner/outcast. It's hard to keep that dynamic going while also having her interact with her peers (the noir thing just works a lot better with a cynical guy isolated in a shabby walkup office than on a campus full of young people interested in knowing each other) so now that they no longer have the polarized rich/poor environment of Neptune High, it seems that the writers have decided they have to show Veronica as smarter and superior by setting her up against a completely stereotyped image of man-hating feminist bitches, far more interested in using attacks against women as an excuse to close down fraternities than they are in actually protecting themselves and each other.
I don't want to derail the thread or engage in Veronica bashing (I still enjoy watching the show), but responding to what barboo said, I do agree it's in a bit of a slump right now. My fear is that VM might suffer the same fate as Twin Peaks... season 1 was awesomely interesting because of the over-arching mystery and it doesn't seem like the show has found anything as compelling to replace it.

When things are going well for Veronica, she can seem kind of smug. Hopefully soon, the drama that happened on last season's finale will be brought into things and make them interesting again. Once the drama takes Veronica down a notch, I think she'll be more roommate worthy again, though, still no Buffy.
In defence of VM and Veronica herself, her smugness right now is, I think, a shield against the pain that she's experienced. Buffy did the same thing, really, with her superiority complex (which she just hid a little bit better until her depressive breakdown in Season Six and her long recovery in Season Seven). It's like her season two attempt to cling to normality. Veronica is all about control, and so she is manipulative of even her friends; I've actually been impressed this season by how easy-going her relationship with Mac has been, without asking for anything in return. (The friendship, even last year, was largely need-based; it looks like Veronica has actually opened herself open to having a girl-pal.) It's something that people have called her on within the show; I have faith that it's something that will be examined, though I know we've been waiting for a long time. But it's kind of like Buffy's superiority complex: we see it's there, but it takes a huge event (like, say, deciding she has to kill Anya) for it to come to the surface and for people to feel the need to change it.

That said, season one is still the best season of VM, although I love season two almost as much. Last year was far too scattered; I was very disappointed that the bus plot and the Felix plot were never really drawn together cohesively, and that certain plot threads, such as Wallace's parentage, were dropped when inconvenient. And yet the central mystery was compelling, the moral depths that Weevil and Logan got themselves into were more interesting than the supporting characters had had the previous years, and the finale was (to me) pretty damn rocking.

Season three? So far? Is not as good. The resolution to the Kendall cliffhanger was way too drawn out, the rape plotline is mostly showing the worst of a bunch of characters and as a result reducing a very serious issue to a series of cliches. But the last episode started to give both the guys and the girls some depth, if not enough. I think the rape plotline is actually setting up a lot of questions about the search for the truth (and the desire to nail someone to the wall for the sake of nailing someone to the wall); I think I'm just going to have to wait and see what is done with it before declaring whether or not it's exploitive or not.

Overall, it's not great right now but I'm still a fan. And it's still my favourite fiction show on the air...although I did just watch the BSG pilot tonight and am going to try to catch up.
WilliamTheB speaks the truth.

Summed up the current position of Veronica Mars in an oversized nutshell.
Just for the record on the subject? I've always found Veronica irksome and smug, it's the main reason I was so turned off by the show. And for me, if I don't like the lead, I can't stick around for very long. I think the writing for the character is partially to blame and the actress gets the rest of the credit for my distaste.

So yeah, wanted to point out that it's not a seasonal thing. It's Veronica, plain and simple :)

::steps down::

[ edited by syd on 2006-10-29 10:59 ]
Right now, at the end of first season of Veronica Mars, and after seven seasons of Buffy, I definitely have to go with Buffy, 'cause it's not in Sunnydale anymore, but in Rome, and I'd got Dawn and Andrew over there, and Rome is so much cooler than Neptune. And maybe Willow or Giles or Xander stops by. And, have I mentioned, it's in Rome.
by the way, I love Doug Petrie.
Well, one of the staples of noir is a dis-trust of 'isms' or of any over-reaching moral abstraction and though i'd agree the 'feminists' in VM are being treated as man-hating cliches surely the 'frat-boys' are being treated equally badly ? They're both being shown as deliberate extremes which have to be steered between, the black and white to Veronica's shades of gray, IMO.

In between, trying to plot their own course, we have Veronica herself, Mac, (apparently) Piz and Wallace with maybe Logan and maybe Parker being the edges of the centre so to speak, the characters who could go either way, could decide to give up their individuality for the easier, quicker fix of one dogmatic belief system or set of behaviours.

And as WilliamTheB touches on, underlying everything we have a respect for the Truth (purposeful big 'T' ;) wherein what actually happened is important. More important than spin for a cause, or political expediency or even the stories we need to tell ourselves to make sense of our own personal narrative (in this respect VM reminds me of 'House').

I also agree that the more smug Veronica (to me it has increased though definitely not to the point where I dislike her) could be like 'General Buffy' i.e. being represented that way so that we, as viewers, know something needs to change. Buffy became less autocratic, maybe Veronica will become more trusting and less isolated - or maybe not since with Buffy it was detrimental to the mission but with Veronica we see time and again that staying separate and keeping a little part of yourself in judgement mode bears detective fruit. Maybe VM's darker, more cynical message is that we are all alone and you only trust someone completely at your peril, that to walk those mean streets you may not need to be mean but separate might be a requirement.

the noir thing just works a lot better with a cynical guy isolated in a shabby walkup office than on a campus full of young people interested in knowing each other

Hmm, not sure about that barboo, I think the shinier and happier the outward facade, the darker the underbelly appears which suits noir perfectly. How much harder (and more tragic) must it be to remain an outsider in the campus environment ?

(jeez, monster much ? That's what happens when the end of BST gifts me an hour ;)
Hmm. Super-power roommate vs super-snarky roommate.
I'll take the super-power one.
Got to be Buffy. I would never ever get mugged.
Buffy for sure. You know you'd never get bored hanging around the scoobies and Sunnyville, high mortality rate aside.
No question. Buffy. Sure she's a danger magnet, but she always eventually kicks the danger's ass.

I'm with most of the above who took time to comment on VM. I still like her, but not nearly as much as I did in Seasons 1 & 2. She is definitely too smug for my taste, especially lately. And if she were my roommate and thought I were keeping something from her, no doubt she'd go behind my back snooping instead of asking me something straight up. There were times I thought Buffy made bad choices but there was never, never a time when I simply didn't like Buffy. There are definitely times I don't like Veronica, and it's happening too frequently these days.

My prediction: Pretty soon, Veronica is going to suffer deeply and for a long time. We loved Buffy so much because she was always suffering and usually in pain, trying to remain strong throughout. Wasn't Veronica much more likeable whilst suffering? And what else could make her realize she's not better than everyone else? Also, the show is losing direction very fast. I'm totally sick of the campus cliches, perhaps because I work at a university I like very much and am constantly reminded how silly these cliches are. While I still enjoy moments, I'm rapidly losing interest in the overall arc. I mean, haven't we done rape enough already on that show? Think I'll go check out discussion on .org...
Characters are most interesting when they're in pain. Joss, David and Marti realised this on 'Buffy' really quickly.

That's not to say seeing characters happy is a bad thing. It's not. But do it in moderation.
But Veronica is better than everyone else.
Xander and Mac would be my ideal housemates.

See that's the thing, in both 'verses, I think it would be more fun to hang out with the extended cast rather, than the leads. Both lead characters seem to attract too much death and craziness and by the nature of being lead characters are in a lot of pain as mentioned above. Plus I think the extended cast on both shows are really cool and interesting people (minus the rich jerks on Veronica mars). Also if you are friends with the extended cast, you could easily get in touch with Buffy or Veronica if you need a mystery solved or vampire/demon taken care of. :)
So, I guess I'm the only one who find Veronica herself incredibly irksome and smug and thinks that I'd end up beating her to death within a week?


you are not the only one syd
I would not live with Veronica Mars. She is far to big brotherish. On the otherhand her father is really cool. But Buffy wins by a landslide. Not only is she hotter, she's superstrong and has the best circle of friends. Not to mention Giles. Oh and Buffy is rooted in history, with her powers and previous generations. Certainly Buffy...then I can meet the ultra-hot Faith.
I adore Veronica Mars.

But come on! Buffy is magic.
Forget the girls

Keith or Rupert
Rupert or Keith
Keith or Rupert
...
I'm getting whiplash

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