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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I told you, it's 'Xander' or 'Sergeant Fury'."
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November 04 2006

TV's Most Creative Producers. MSN TV's list includes someone familiar.

Of course they're not telling us anything we don't already know- but recognition is always good. I must say though that it seems like the little number that appears before the name Joss Whedon, should be more "one-ish".

Also, mods this is my first link so if there are any problems delete away and save me the shame.:)

I can't believe Rod Serling is only getting an honorable mention...piff! I think "eight" is the new "one".
It was an interesting link although I agree the eight doesn't seem right. Maybe they were counting down from the top.

I mean David Simon #1? Of course I have never watched a single CSI of any sort so I can't really judge.
That picture of Joss looks a little Boreanaz-ish... oh, wait... :-P
I think it's just the angle they caught him at...
Also, mods this is my first link so if there are any problems delete away and save me the shame.:)


This was the perfect way to do a first post. Going for a hook is good, leaves people wanting to know more.
You're doing better than me onthedrift, I am the moderators' bee-arch. ;) Must be the Aussie accent. Scares them into deletion.

Dang that sounded bitter. Interesting that Dick Wolf is relegated into Popular but not Creative. Still waiting for Law and Order: Elevator Maintenance Unit

[ edited by Mort on 2006-11-04 00:44 ]
" 'Buffy' became a mythology for the modern media age, and Whedon followed it up with the noir-tinged spin-off, 'Angel,' a supernatural detective show in a different kind of Los Angeles underworld, and the scuffed and rugged Western in space, 'Firefly,' a frontier sci-fi adventure with a mercenary cast and an electrified tension. Whedon has since turned to the big screen, but the three shows he created and shepherded turned imaginative metaphors into very human stories, and that's the best kind of genre TV."

Wow, you can't hate that write-up -- "mythology for the modern media age" sounds pretty damn seminal.

Of course, I'm not thrilled with Joss at "8," but seeing as some of his own favourite TV characters come from shows/creators mentioned on this list, like "Hill Street Blues," "Maude," "The West Wing" and Rod Serling, he's at least gotta be happy with the company he keeps.

(Congrats, onthedrift, for your first post - it was a honey. The first one seems hard, but actually it's your first post deletion that will try your soul. :P)
JJ Abrams is at five??! JJ Abrams is at five?!??!?

(Sorry, embittered Alias fan here.)

No offense, but his shows haven't exactly done all that much for me. Felicity was a different show after the very first season, Alias was good only until around the middle to the end of S2 before going completely to shit in S3, and Lost... Well, I gave up on fangirling that show halfway through the first season, and even though others still think it's a fantastic show, folks do seem to overlook that he's barely worked all that much on the show in a very long time.

... Eight... Yep, definitely the new One. ;)
JJ Abrams is EXCELLENT at coming with an idea, sticking around for a year or so, and then getting another great idea and completely forgetting that other one exists.

Now, I like all of Alias. S1/S2 were fantastic, S3/S4 were...I'd say bumpy, but solid, and I thought that S5 would fit right under S2 at perhaps the same level as S1 or just a notch below.

Lost is so completely, absolutely, utterly, etc NOT something that JJ Abrams should be credited for. It was an idea before him, and it continued going (in a way...) after him. He co-wrote and directed the two part pilot. That was the height of his involvement. Abrams is much better suited for movies where you spend many months, perhaps a whole year, working on something and then can move onto something else.

Joss being 8 is funny, only cause he is, in the very least, top 5 material. Much more than JJ Abrams.

Though, honestly, it really isn't a big deal that he's 8. He's there. My bigger problem is that Abrams is there at all.
I can't believe Rod Serling is only getting an honorable mention...piff! I think "eight" is the new "one".

You stole my words, sunnycide! Get out of my braaaaiiiiinnn!!!!

ETA: You know, most of the successful creators/producers/writers of current hit shows (including a couple of people on the list) credit Joss for being their inspiration or cite their favorite show as being Buffy.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2006-11-04 01:27 ]
Joss Whedon should clearly be a lot higher on that list. The man is a creative genius. Hell, imo, he IS the list.
Yep. I put him in at the one-ish place too.
Posted by Xane:
I mean David Simon #1? Of course I have never watched a single CSI of any sort so I can't really judge.
Erm... CSI?

David Simon at numero uno I can easily live with (if you've found The Wire penetrable, you can understand why), but come aaaawn, this is a list about the most creative producers and the likes of Joss Whedon, Aaron Sorkin and David Milch are left on the first page to people like Steven Bocho, David E. Kelley and J.J. Abrams? I mean, good god!
Yeah, Rod Serling getting an honorary mention in my book is blasphemy. Not only did he create one of the best shows in television history, but he also produced it while on a smoke break.

[ edited by delirium_haze on 2006-11-04 06:59 ]
Well, CSI and Lost are both two of the biggest shows on right now -- millions of people connect with and watch those shows, so they must be doing something right.
While I have a problem with Joss at 8, I have a bigger problem with Abrams outranking him. While I like/d Alias and Lost they're pretty shallow (IMHO) compared to Buffy/Angel/Firefly.
You know I love Lost, it's the only thing that I don't want to miss that's currently on television. That being said, I could NEVER rewatch the episodes over and over like I do Buffy and Angel.
Where watching Lost can be described as an hour every week that I am delightfully entertained, finding Buffy was a life changing experience. There's really no comparrison.
Well, something Joss does very well -- unfortunately, near uniquely now -- is give you reasons to love characters. If you actually watch Joss' shows, you'll get involved with them, and *care* about the characters. I thought Alias did that quite well at first -- and Jennifer completely nailed the dead boyfriend bath moment in the Alias pilot, a moment in a show that totally pulled me in.

Sadly, if you don't watch Joss' shows properly, you probably think they are rubbish. I've lost count of the amount of people who snigger at me and tell me Buffy is a kids show with no depth. Who haven't ever actually seen it.
I mean David Simon #1? Of course I have never watched a single CSI of any sort so I can't really judge.

What in blazes does CSI have to do with David Simon?
It once featured a character called David Simon.


Okay, that was (probably) a lie.
Wonderful post, onthedrift! Welcome to the room. Oh, watch out for the tigers!
I was surprised Rod Serling only got an honorable mention, too.

Welcome to the board, onthedrift.

Sort of o/t but since it's about Joss...

Does anyone here watch MSNBC news? Willie Geist, who's a producer of Tucker Carlson's show and makes appearances from time to time, is a deadringer for Joss, right down to his voice and mannerisms. He just has a little more hair than Joss.
"I mean David Simon #1? Of course I have never watched a single CSI of any sort so I can't really judge."

I have no idea where that came from. I guess I must have mentally lumped all crime shows into the CSI, Law and Order, Homicide, category of "stuff I never watch" inside my head.

Sorry.
Well, CSI and Lost are both two of the biggest shows on right now -- millions of people connect with and watch those shows, so they must be doing something right.
gossi | November 04, 16:06 CET

Who on earth "connects" with CSI? It's complete tosh - people just watch because they want to switch their brains off... or because they have no brain at all. That's not connection.
I've never watched an epi of CSI; or of Law and Order; or of Friends.

Should I be worried?
"Who on earth "connects" with CSI? It's complete tosh - people just watch because they want to switch their brains off... or because they have no brain at all. That's not connection."

I think it is just a different kind of connection. CSI (the original, I don't know about the others) can be watched as a puzzle. How do the pieces go together in such a way that the scientists find the answer. At the same time there is the puzzle of who these scientists are and what makes them tick. It is totally different from Joss's work, with a totally different purpose, but different does not make something bad or brainless.

"I've never watched an epi of CSI; or of Law and Order; or of Friends.

Should I be worried?"


I doubt it. Although I used to watch the original L&O when it first came on, any of the rest I have seen I picked up in reruns. There is actually some pretty interesting stuff in some of them...and a lot of uninteresting stuff in many of them, but I don't think you are in too much danger of failing any cultural knowledge tests as long as you know the names of the shows and a few of the characters. You should be able to pick that up on the internet pretty easily. ;-)
dont dare compare the brilliance of David Simon to some piece of shit like CSI.
Geez Louise, overreacting much?
CSI (the original) is not shit. Have all you guys who are heralding CSI as the worst thing in the history of time even seen any of it? A lot of effort is put into the show, it is very well acted, and it is one of the few shows that I still make time to watch.

Some people seem so "must be a serialized drama OR ELSE *SHAKES FIST*" and that just isn't reasonable. CSI's characters have all grown and changed over the years, not nearly as much as BtVS's, but they are different shows.

Some people are so set in their belief that only "smaller" shows with intricate plotlines can be classified as good when that just isn't true at all.
Agreed. Don't watch CSI anymore (a few years back it clashed with Angel over here and I got out of the habit) but I used to enjoy the mystery elements and the science (OK, science-ish sometimes but mostly quite accurate).

I also think Grissom is up there with the best TV geeks of recent years (maybe ever) and was (probably still is) wonderfully played by William Peterson. Any character which respects big 'T' Truth above all else is gonna find a spot in my heart - not literally, I mean that in the little 't' truth way ;) - and though, to me, it's 'fluff' TV I don't mean that to be derogatory. I watch a few shows (e.g. NCIS, Bones, the Stargates, Numb3rs) which i'm well aware aren't going to change the world, they're just fun.

Personally, i'm dead against the idea that TV which functions only as entertainment is totally worthless but each to their own I guess.

(and i'd put Joss ahead of JJ Abrahms and probably David E Kelley too but it's purely down to personal taste, like all these lists, and so totally arbitrary)

Who on earth "connects" with CSI? It's complete tosh - people just watch because they want to switch their brains off... or because they have no brain at all. That's not connection.


Wow, judgmental much? There's an entire fandom of people obsessed with that show, and that fandom is much bigger than the fandom here. They have people doing LiveJournal, icons, fan fic etc. It's arguably the most successful TV franchise of all time.
I figure CSI etc. must be good shows because they are very successful. I just personally don't like that type of show. I don't read mysteries either. I've tried so hard to watch Bones and I like the character parts of it, I just don't like the crime part. I find it depressing and gross.
Re David Simon. Dec 5, 1997. Homicide episode "Subway".
My skin still crawls remembering something I watched once.

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