Whedonesque : Comments on 11927 : Flanvention II to be cancelled?!?!

Charming. Wasn't it just the other week, in the wake of Nathan going public on his blog with problems regarding BE communication, that all the BE minions were talking about how BE are miracle workers and everything was just fine?

Springing this word with less than 2 weeks to go until the event? Yeah, that's nice.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-11-28 08:35 ]

theonetruebix | November 28, 10:34 CET

HOLY CR*P!!! Not only am I seriously bummed about the possibility of not getting to see everyone and have a great time like I did last year, I'm looking at all the inventory I bought for the con and starting to seriously panic. :(

I echo embers' comments: HOW, HOW, HOW does a sold-out convention lack the financing to proceed? HOW???

lexigeek | November 28, 10:37 CET

Not just a sold-out convention, a PRE-PAID sold out convention. What exactly do they need financing for that all our pre-paid money isn't covering?

Sarrava | November 28, 10:45 CET

Big Damn Tentmoot?

When that organizer was talking about "personal problems" preventing her from communicating with organizers and doing the most basic particulars of her job, I caught a whiff of the kind of con fanboys don't attend. I was hoping it was just this person's personal chaos. Now, not so much.

Is anyone trying to get the Booster honchos on the phone?

If BE cancels and suddenly starts making excuses about a delay in providing refunds ...

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:50 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 10:50 CET

Oh man... I'm not going to Flan this year myself, but quite a few of my friends are, including one flying in from the UK. I don't even want to think about how many people will be hurt (financially and/or emotionally) if Flan is canceled.

Lady Brick | November 28, 11:07 CET

How can a sold out convention be having financial problems?

If someone's done a bunk with the contents of the convention's checking account, it's very easy then.

There are, I suppose, less cynical explanations (ticket price insufficient to cover con expenses due to low-ball estimates) but it wouldn't be the first time someone absconded with convention funds, as HudsonVC alluded.

janeway216 | November 28, 11:15 CET

Note that in their announcement:

Boosters is experiencing financial difficulties. We are doing everything in our power to facilitate Flan 2, but at this point, it is uncertain that we will be able to obtain financing in time for the event. We will update you daily in the Flan 2 forum. Anyone with airline tickets who might want to cancel, will need to do so immediately. If we are unable to obtain the needed financing by Friday, Dec. 1st, the event will be cancelled.

There's not a hint of apology or humility to their $$-paying attendees.

theonetruebix | November 28, 11:15 CET

I'd also love to know how it is that this information is only just now coming to light.

lexigeek | November 28, 11:21 CET

Over at PDX Browncoats, b!X is directing people here and saying, "Put the hammer down."

How much money was raised by Flan II's sellout and ancillary special-event sales?

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 09:03 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 11:23 CET

Posting a link to this thread in the BE forum -- in case BE decides down the line to lock down or delete their own thread -- might not be a bad idea.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:53 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 11:24 CET

Well, what I meant was that if it does go down this way, it's time to put the hammer down. What that means, exactly, I have no idea, except that I'm pretty sure no one wants to be on my personal **it-list.

theonetruebix | November 28, 11:25 CET

Well, what I meant was that if it does go down this way, it's time to put the hammer down.

Though there may be something to be said for putting the pressure on before they decide.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:54 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 11:30 CET

The women who run Booster Entertainment are here:
http://con-dom-wank.livejournal.com/3087.html?nc=121
unfortunately their last names are not listed, but they must have filed corporate papers in order to do business in California and personally I am thinking class action law suit.

embers | November 28, 11:36 CET

Oh No! One of our OzCoats had saved all year and been looking forward to this! Paid for her ticket and accomodation and everything! This is just not fair!

nixygirl | November 28, 11:37 CET

I especially like this bit, posted by one of BE's versions of dittoheads:

although flan2 was sold out, I think BE took a financial blow due to the last 2 events. They wanted to provide attendees with the best con even with low ticket sales, and I dont think it worked in terms of finance

If true (and I stress that if), what that says is that BE took the money it was getting from Flan ticket-buyers, and spent it on their other events.

So -- if true -- rather than cancel low-ticket-sales events, they're poised to cancel a sold out one because they blew its money on the events which didn't have enough people to support them.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-11-28 09:43 ]

theonetruebix | November 28, 11:41 CET

Oh no!!

I hope they manage to sort this out because my heart goes out to people stuck with non refundable hotel rooms and airline tickets , not to mention the cost of tickets to the con . The Booster site won't open this morning so I can't check for myself, but is any kind of explaination being given?

debw | November 28, 11:44 CET

http://www.myspace.com/boosterentertainment

Courtesy of LJ, some info there.

Sending good wishes for those who were going to go.

KernelM | November 28, 11:47 CET

For their sake, I really hope they get their finances together in time and the event goes on as promised. Even if they have to take the money out of their own salaries/pockets, it would probably be a lot less expensive (and less crippling to the company's long-term reputation) than the class action shit-storm that would likely follow a cancellation.

RayHill | November 28, 11:47 CET

And if they spent Flan II's money to cover losses from the other two conventions, that means that they don't have that money still available to refund Flan II tickets...

deanna b | November 28, 11:48 CET

So -- if true -- rather than cancel low-ticket-sales events, they're poised to cancel a sold out one because they blew its money on the events which didn't have enough people to support them.

This sounds incredibly, horribly plausible. The talk of "financing" suggests that BE has been leveraging itself, and not contacting Fillion suggests this may have been considered as an eventuality for a while.

All that said, I sincerely hope our completely hypothetical analysis is not true, that we're worked up over nothing, and that BE is going to do the right, reputation-salvaging thing. Because having the entirety of the Browncoat Nation bearing down on you is a fairly terrifying prospect, I'd imagine. Especially b!X.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:55 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 11:48 CET

Not only was no explanation being given, the VIPs and minions were telling people to calm down.

No apology, no hint of a reason except 'financial difficulty'.

500 tickets sold, 500 people sucking up travel and hotel costs this close to the event. On the heels of cancelling Nanocon just before the event, Booster Entertainment is dead in the water.

I doubt if anyone will accept that this is a one-off disaster, with so many cancellations and organizational screw-ups preceding it.

We can only hope there is enough cash in the kitty for refunds. Even just refunding the very expensive ticket price would be a comfort at this stage.

Fool me once, shame on Booster - fool me twice...

jletham | November 28, 11:50 CET

I'd suggest we all go to the Hilton anyway if the cancel, but presumably at that point, the hotel could no longer honor the group rate. I was going to suggest we just go, and put out an open call for the cast to come have a drink at the hotel bar. ;)

Meanwhile, somewhere, RavenU is saying a very sorrowful, "I told you so."

(Regarding the MySpace page, I notice BE appears to be an Ashland, Oregon, company. Which, for any Portland or Eugene Browncoats planning on Flan, makes this a home-ground battle, if it comes to one.)

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-11-28 09:55 ]

theonetruebix | November 28, 11:50 CET

I was thinking along the same lines...maybe it's the snow up here today.

Sarrava | November 28, 11:54 CET

Ya know B!x that is not a bad idea. You never know, some of them may come?

nixygirl | November 28, 11:55 CET

bix - was thinking the same thing. How many of us have non-refundable tickets and scheduled time off anyway? Make it a great big Shindig!

klevermore | November 28, 11:55 CET

Ya know B!x that is not a bad idea. You never know, some of them may come?

I wouldn't put it past them. But if Flan is cancelled, and if there are no refunds because BE doesn't have the cashy money, my hotel bill would go from the gorup rate to something nasty.

theonetruebix | November 28, 11:56 CET

Even if they don't cancel, they have advised us to cancel flights if possible - if people cancel flights and the event does go ahead, what are we supposed to do?

jletham | November 28, 12:01 CET

For their sake, I really hope they get their finances together in time and the event goes on as promised. Even if they have to take the money out of their own salaries/pockets, it would probably be a lot less expensive (and less crippling to the company's long-term reputation) than the class action shit-storm that would likely follow a cancellation.

Yes, BE should take the loss on this one, not the fans.

electricspacegirl | November 28, 12:01 CET

...if people cancel flights and the event does go ahead, what are we supposed to do?

BE Screwed.

theonetruebix | November 28, 12:03 CET

But if Flan is cancelled, and if there are no refunds because BE doesn't have the cashy money, my hotel bill would go from the gorup rate to something nasty.

I did a quick search on the Burbank Hilton's site, and based on rates for the next weekend (can't search for Flan weekend, since it's currently full with, well, us), the standard rate is $159/night.

lexigeek | November 28, 12:05 CET

"I'd suggest we all go to the Hilton anyway if the cancel, but presumably at that point, the hotel could no longer honor the group rate. I was going to suggest we just go, and put out an open call for the cast to come have a drink at the hotel bar. ;)"

Give the hotel a ring

If enough of you still go the hotel would probably rather have full rooms and people using the bars and restaurants and paying group rate than be stuck with empty rooms and the usual one night charge for a cancelled booking.

Also presumably , cancelled or not, the guests will have been paid at least a deposit on the money they would be charging for the event. You may be lucky and persuade some to join you just because they're good people and like the fans.

I really hope you guys can work something out because frankly this sucks beyond the telling of it!

debw | November 28, 12:06 CET

If this is cancelled, I desperately need the refund. Maybe the hotel will honor the rate anyway? Because I cannot afford for the hotel cost to go up.

I'm beyond livid that there is even a possibility of this con being cancelled.

I'm going. No matter what I am going to California. Only I hope that my first four days will be spent meeting some of my favorite actors.

awkwardjonas | November 28, 12:06 CET

Nice one, b!X.

*sigh*

electricspacegirl | November 28, 12:06 CET

the standard rate is $159/night

$50 more per night than the group rate on my room. Times four nights. That's another $200. Yeah, I don't think so.

theonetruebix | November 28, 12:07 CET

If enough of you still go the hotel would probably rather have full rooms and people using the bars and restaurants and paying group rate than be stuck with empty rooms and the usual one night charge for a cancelled booking.

That's a good point. What we shoujld do, rather than have a bunch of people call (which would be a good show of numbers, but likely piss them off), is get a volunteer to call the hotel and ask some questions. Namely, something like so they have a magic number of Flan attendees who need to show up for their rooms at the Hilton, even if the event is cancelled, in order for us all to still get the group rate.

theonetruebix | November 28, 12:11 CET

We don't know for certain that Hilton would not honor the reservations. I suspect the reservations will not just disappear unless we all cancel them.

Sarrava | November 28, 12:11 CET

It is just SO WRONG! This is very bad managment! I'm completely shocked, they've giiven people one weeks notice!!
My friend is coming from Australia, she's taken time off work right before the Holidays, as all of you would have.

My heart really does go out to all of you who paid for tickets.
I do hope for their sake they can get a loan to cover costs, or find a larger location to accomodate more people, and therefore sell more tickets.

They're business practises are, quite frankly appalling. If that is correct that they used the $$ from this con to cover costs on the previous two, how could they have ever expected to not cancell this event?

It makes me wonder now, if they had purchased airline tickets for the guests? Hence Nathan needing to contact them asap, and I thought that was bad....sheesh!

nixygirl | November 28, 12:11 CET

An extra $200 and the hope that some of the actors are nice guys and can make it anyway? No organised Q & A sessions, no photos, no autographs? for an extra $200?

That blows.

jletham | November 28, 12:12 CET

Someone with a cool head should approach hotel management tomorrow morning by phone and alert them to the situation. A reasonable manager may guarantee the group rate anyway, given the situation.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:55 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 12:13 CET

What we shoujld do, rather than have a bunch of people call (which would be a good show of numbers, but likely piss them off), is get a volunteer to call the hotel and ask some questions.

That's a phone call that needs to be made when their business office is open to talk to the events manager.

Sarrava | November 28, 12:16 CET

B!x wrote:
I'd suggest we all go to the Hilton anyway if the cancel, but presumably at that point, the hotel could no longer honor the group rate. I was going to suggest we just go, and put out an open call for the cast to come have a drink at the hotel bar. ;)

I was thinking the same thing. Except I really don't think the hotel would jack up the room rates at this point. Given the option of having 500 reservations cancel all at once, the hotel would be much better off keeping maybe 1-200 of those reservations intact and losing less on the last-minute event cancellation than they might have otherwise. The last thing the hotel wants is all those rooms to go empty.

We're getting in touch with the So Cal browncoats. Should this eventuality come to pass, they'll be the best folks to negotiate with the hotel. And they already have relationships with most of the cast so extending informal invitations would be a breeze.

But lets all hope it doesn't come to that!

RayHill | November 28, 12:19 CET

I'm right there with awkwardjonas. I am coming from New York. It's the first time I've ever been to California. I'm shelling big bucks out of this, taking time out from work, and my university schedule! If this gets cancelled, I will never work with Be again. Starfury has never dicked people around like this.

EireAngel | November 28, 12:20 CET

One other question to ask the hotel (who's volunteering?) -- One of the events at Flan is/was going to be a charity auction. If Flan is cancelled, we might want to try to see, if we're all just going to go to the Hilton anyway, if there's anything we can work out with them to maintain that event. It would be good press for them: A bunch of fans whose event was cancelled show up anyway and hold the previously-scheduled charity auction anyway.

theonetruebix | November 28, 12:21 CET

BTW, for perspective and hindsight's sake, here is a link to the Whedonesque thread started during the "gee I forgot to invite Nathan Fillion because of my personal problems" fiasco.

HudsonVC | November 28, 12:24 CET

I will volunteer to make the phone call in the morning, at least to get an idea on the room rates. I agree that we shouldn't overwhelm them with calls. As Ray said, the Nor-Cal and So-Cal browncoats will be putting heads together in the next day to talk strategy.

lexigeek | November 28, 12:24 CET

As Ray said, the Nor-Cal and So-Cal browncoats will be putting heads together in the next day to talk strategy.

Groovy. Then what's needed in that regard is just to make sure someone from there keeps us in the loop as to what they've learned/thought of.

theonetruebix | November 28, 12:29 CET

I will volunteer to make the phone call in the morning

Thank you.... It's possible Booster Events has already been in touch with the Hilton about this; be sure to ask.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 09:04 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 12:30 CET

There are probably not anywhere close to 500 reservations. Some attendees live locally. Others have roommates. Some are bunking 4 to a room. Even so, it's probably business Hilton would rather keep than lose, provided they are not in need of space for another event.

Sarrava | November 28, 12:34 CET

Also, a tangential question that's now more interesting than before: Why were Sean Maher, Summer Glau and Morena Baccarin never even invited to Flan II?

HudsonVC | November 28, 12:44 CET

FWIW, according to the State of Oregon (where BE operates), they are nearly two months late on renewing their business entity with the state, having received notice of that on October 20.

theonetruebix | November 28, 13:04 CET

Without the need for hotel function space that would be paid for with sufficient "room nights" (i.e. number of hotel rooms booked times the number of nights people are staying - if you get enough out-of-towners staying at the hotel as part of your group and are staying enough nights, the hotel doesn't charge for the convention's function space - was it going to just be the Jubilee/Gala/Celebration ballrooms and the Glendale, Burbank and Hollywood rooms again?), there's no need to have a minimum number of guests, so I think it's likely that they'll honor the group rate for anyone who still wants to come. However, if you want to still have the charity auction, then you'll have to rent a function room to have it. You wouldn't need the whole convention space, so it shouldn't be TOO expensive, and they might give you some break (especially if enough people honor their reservations so they actually make enough room nights for a small hall, plus it's for a charity event). Plus, you might be able to get an even better room rate from AAA or somthing like that.

What about the vendors who were going to be selling at the dealer's room? They'd have bought lots of merchandise that they were counting on selling at the con, and if it doesn't happen, they're screwed.

There are several So Cal Browncoats I can think of who would be good at dealing with the hotel for this. James, of course, and Marsia Powers is also good at that sort of thing.

The strange thing is that I wasn't going to attend Flan II -- there were enough things I observed at the last one that set off little niggling alarms in my head, so I've been steering clear of BE events -- but now that it looks like it might be a fan-salvaged shindig, I'm suddenly planning to be there.

(I hope some of that made sense -- it's late and I'm sleepy.)

deanna b | November 28, 13:10 CET

So, in the event Flan II is cancelled, I nominate "BE Screwed" as the unofficial, if not the official, name of the replacement shindig.

theonetruebix | November 28, 13:18 CET

It did make sense :) If there's one thing I've learned over the past year and a half, it's the power that browncoats have to do the impossible. I'm not going to give up that belief just yet.

lexigeek | November 28, 13:20 CET

Vicki says that Sean and Summer were invited and said no.

Along with everyone else planning to go to this, I am very upset. More than anything, I want it to not be cancelled. If it is, I am still planning to go to California, though. I would be interested in meeting up with people as well.

MalGal | November 28, 13:23 CET

Great name, b!X, as it works both ways. Not only will we have been screwed by BE, but BE will also be screwed since it will be the end of their business.

Sarrava | November 28, 13:23 CET

Also tangential:

Here's the last entry in the unfortunately named "con-dom-wank.livejournal.com" (where there's also an entry that's a glowing profile of the BE brain trust):

[The blogger slams every other Whedonverse con for ethical lapses] ... But take a look over at Booster Events, which (by all reports I've heard) has been running (SHOCK!) ethically, and is still growing and going strong: www.boosterevents.com. (And nope, I'm not associated with them in any way.)

The LJ profile admits, incredibly, to sockpuppetry.

HudsonVC | November 28, 13:23 CET

Vicki says that Sean and Summer were invited and said no.

Which is odd, considering the person who said they asked Sean if he'd be there, and he said he hadn't been asked.

People will have to forgive me if I'm not in the mood to take BE's word for much of anything at this particular moment.

And HVC, I especially like BE's comment on the profile post there: "Yep, despite poor ticket sales, Booster Entertainment continues with it's history of never cancelling a guest."

If the insinuation in the BE VIP report is correct that BE was floating its low-selling cons, which couldn't fund themselves, with Flan money, that would be why they could have a "history of never cancelling a guest".

See where it got them.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-11-28 11:31 ]

theonetruebix | November 28, 13:24 CET

And this is nice, too. From the OB:

I hope something does get organised - I know several people from Europe who have already flown that way...

This risks getting really messy.

theonetruebix | November 28, 13:36 CET

b!X, I am not claiming that I believe Vicki. I am just passing along what she said. I have been suspicious of BE for a bit now. The mess with Nathan did not help matters either.

MalGal | November 28, 13:40 CET

And, honestly, just the stink of the current moment, I suspect, is going to have a rash of agents calling tomorrow to cancel their actors, if those calls haven't started already.

theonetruebix | November 28, 13:50 CET

Yes. That's what I'm thinking. Adam already knows about it, so he might be the first to cancel.

MalGal | November 28, 13:53 CET

A couple of things, if people paid with credit cards and the event does get cancelled will they be able to get the money back from their credit card company?

Secondly in terms of this thread, here's the dos and donts.

I don't want to see people's names, addresses and phone numbers getting posted here (posts of that ilk will get deleted) or indeeed overtly aggressive or rude posts as well. A calm and measured approach is needed not a fandom witch hunt.

I hope this gets sorted out quickly and to everyone's satisfaction. Because it is a real shame for people who bought tickets.

Simon | November 28, 13:56 CET

Holy s***. Here are some of my thoughts, reading this thread and thinking about Nathan's shout-out for assistance the other day:

1. I will bet that the hotel will certainly honor the group rate. When someone has a bunch of people coming to town for a wedding or something, they can arrange a group rate at a hotel (which might be associated with renting a function room, in which case...)

2. Perhaps the charity auction and dealers room can still go forward. It would mean raising extra money to rent those rooms, but I would bet it is more worthwhile to dealers who have gotten new inventory (as many have pointed out) to have somewhere to sell it even if they have to pitch in some more to rent the room than it would be to be stuck with merchandise and nowehre to sell it.

3. Can some well-organized group *coughSoCalBrowncoatscough* "take over" what BE set up? Rent event rooms, contact the BDHs, etc.? They might not be able to pay guest appearance fees, but they wouldn't necessarily need to take a profit either, making it a breakeven, also know as a wash (heh). Which takes us to...

4. The BDHs. Sean, Summer and Morena have all wondered why they weren't asked to come (I agree with b!X that I think Vicki's report that "they were asked but said no" sounds false now), which I think might indicate they want to come. Nathan wanted to be part of this con so much he recruited us to help him out. I am going to guess that most of them live in Los Angeles, so there wouldn't be expenses of airline tickets or hotel rooms for them. True, they wouldn't be getting appearance fees, which I saw (I think on the other thread) are very high, but perhaps one or more of them would be willing to come out for a drink in the bar, hanging out at a charity auction or even a chat to fans for an hour on a weekend afternoon, in light of the situation. I don't mean for us to ask them to give us "something for nothing," but perhaps letting them know the situation will get a positive response because of all the Browncoats who have already made arrangements to travel such great distances to go to Los Angeles. Or maybe...

5. Remember what b!X hooked up the world with last summer, that Can't Stop the Serenity thing? Maybe someone with good organizational skills *coughSoCalBrowncoats/b!Xcough* could hook up real fast with a theatre in Los Angeles and a print of Serenity (or of Once More With Feeling, ffs) and there could be a gorram shindig watching it during one of those days that Flan2 was/is scheduled for. Maybe a BDH or 2 would feel comfortable attending that? Maybe they would feel comfortable adding a live commentary?

6. Without the BE people involved, 'Verse people who weren't scheduled for Flan2 might be interested in showing up to the little Browncoat rebellion, er, self-empowered shindig. I'm lookin' at you, Gina (OK, she was supposed to be busy that weekend anyway, I'm just dreaming here)/Sean/Summer/Morena/Minear/etc.

7. Someone call RavenU, stat. She did tell us so (without being so mean as to really say "I told you so"), and said on the other thread that she wouldn't be so crazy as to get involved in running something this big again, but maybe she could be a great source of advice in this emerging emergency.

I'm just sayin'. Throwin' out ideas here. I think deanna b was exactly right when she said it looks like it might be a fan-salvaged shindig.

billz | November 28, 13:58 CET

Billz ... agreed, and the wheels are already in motion. Stay tuned.

lexigeek | November 28, 14:02 CET

hook up real fast with a theatre in Los Angeles and a print of Serenity (or of Once More With Feeling, ffs) and there could be a gorram shindig watching it during one of those days that Flan2 was/is scheduled for

Well, thanks to the charity screenings, we certainly do have a contact at Universal Distribution now. But this would be spectacularly short notice. If the Cali BCs want to try this route, if they don't have a contact of their own, they should speak with the coordinator of next year's charity screenings, Devin Pike, since he would be who they should ask to talk to the Distribution contact.

theonetruebix | November 28, 14:04 CET

billz is right.... Too many people are committed to this trip; money's stuck on the table. If the event is truly cancelled, it's time to start throwing together "BEscrewed."

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-29 08:59 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 14:06 CET

When that organizer was talking about "personal problems" preventing her from communicating with organizers and doing the most basic particulars of her job, I caught a whiff of the kind of con fanboys don't attend. I was hoping it was just this person's personal chaos. Now, not so much.

Oh, here's gossi being honest: when I saw the personal problems remark online a week ago, I figured one of two things would happen: it would be sorted out with Nathan, or the con would be cancelled. I don't want to speculate too much as to what happened, but ultimately, cons like this need a hell of a lot of money up front to finance - as I said last time here - and some of the people they bring are not cheap.

This won't be the first time a convention organisation goes down the tube - this kind of thing happens all the time, and it usually follows the same pattern. But I feel really, really sad for the people going - I know *loads* of them, including three flying from the UK to it.

gossi | November 28, 14:20 CET

This is just awful. I'll admit I felt a bit relieved reading upthread that this is not a local company, but I still feel embarrassed as an Angeleno. Please link me up through my profile to any effort to provide hospitality to people coming into town for this if the event is cancelled, and they can't or don't want to cancel their arrangements. I'm already linked to SF Browncoats. I think we could still have a shindig, as suggested above. It might be really lame compared to what people were reasonably expecting, but there won't be a lack of hospitality.

dreamlogic | November 28, 14:21 CET

BEscrewed? I say, BEsalvaged! BEbold! BEBrowncoats! :-)

MAL: Just focus. Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley and we've choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible and that makes us mighty. Just a little while longer, our angels'll be soaring overhead, raining fire on those arrogant cods, so you hold. You HOLD!

Of course, I'm hoping for better results this time. ;-)

And also, less fire rained.

[ edited by billz on 2006-11-28 12:25 ]

billz | November 28, 14:24 CET

but ultimately, cons like this need a hell of a lot of money up front to finance - as I said last time here - and some of the people they bring are not cheap.

Yeah but gossi, there's a growing body of evidence suggesting that BE was paying for low-selling cons by using money it had from Flan ticket-buyers. The solution to having low-selling cons is to cancel the low-selling cons, not take the money people gave for the sold-out Flan and use that to float cons that aren't selling enough tickets.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-11-28 12:30 ]

theonetruebix | November 28, 14:29 CET

I don't want to speculate too much as to what happened, but ultimately, cons like this need a hell of a lot of money up front to finance -

They got more than a hell of a lot of money up front...they got all of it. It is all sold out, and all PRE-PAID. Every entry ticket, every photo op, every extra autograph is pre-paid. All of our money is up-front money.

From BE's Terms of Use web site page:

NO REFUNDS are given for tickets or event registration unless the event is cancelled. Refunds will not be given in the event of guest cancellations, guest changes, event date changes, or the ticket holder being unable to attend due to personal circumstances.

It implies that refunds will be given in case of event cancellation, but does not explicitly state it.

Sarrava | November 28, 14:39 CET

Well, they did refund for the cancelled Nano, I think. But the open question, at this point, is whether or not enough money exists to refund everyone anyway.

theonetruebix | November 28, 14:46 CET

I know there are people still waiting for Nano refunds. Don't hold your breath :-(

jletham | November 28, 14:50 CET

bix - I agree. They had sold out, same amount of tickets as last time for less guests, so they had the money. Like I say, it's not my place to publicly speculate where that money has gone as I don't know. I can't see how they're going to refund people, though.

gossi | November 28, 14:54 CET

But the open question, at this point, is whether or not enough money exists to refund everyone anyway.

I think the obvious answer at this point is that they don't. In theory, everyone's money adds up to enough to both run Flan2 and turn a profit. If they don't even have enough to run Flan2, then they don't have enough to refund everyone.

Sounds like either way, whether Flan2 runs or not, they need financing. If they get it in time, Flan2 is a go. But even if Flan2 isn't a go, it sounds like they'll still need some financing to complete the refunds.

Pure speculation, of course. That's just what I hear in what they wrote.

Sarrava | November 28, 14:55 CET

It just occurred to me -- is this what they mean when they say, "The s*** is about to hit the fan" -- or in this case, the fans?

billz | November 28, 14:57 CET

Wouldn't they lose what ever money they'd already paid to the actors if they cancel the event too?

helcat | November 28, 16:27 CET

I'm sooooo pissed off right now. They better not cancel Flan...I went broke for this event and I am NOT able to get a refund on my 375 dollar plane ticket...is BE going to refund MY money??? What about all the money I spend on tickets and photo ops??? I know I sound a little selfish but not everyone is made of money..I'm a college student..we are notoriously poor.

kballgetlost | November 28, 16:41 CET

Ugh. Just...ugh. Here is hoping upon hope that they find a way to pull it off. I can't even imagine what could have happened to cause a cancellation at this late date, but I still have hope that the folks at BE (who have always been above board) find a way to make it work.

Regardless of whether or not that happens, I think there is clear evidence that Whedonverse conventions are a dying breed. Too expensive to run, too expensive to attend and, frankly, hello? the shows have been off the air for a long while now. Time to move on. :-)

OzLady | November 28, 16:41 CET

I've been staring at this page, and I still don't believe it.
No matter what, I'm heading for LA next week, because I sure can't cancel my plane tickets (good thing it's just a short hop from Sacto), and I can always move to a Days Inn closer to Hollywood and Vine. It's also more time to find other places to go.
But no Flan 2?? If that's the case, it will take a lot for me to even believe there could be an Angel Booster Bash II next summer..or the big Veronica Mars con a year from now. If they refund my money, and the first installment of the Booster Bash II ticket, we'll call it square.
But I have been looking forward to this all year. I hope something can be done...cut it to two days...anything!

[ edited by impalergeneral on 2006-11-28 15:27 ]

impalergeneral | November 28, 16:43 CET

And it sucks for Phoenix because the Arizona Browncoats were having a fundraiser starring the Bedlam Bards on their way out to FLAN II. If there is no FLAN will they still want to drive all the way here from Texas just for one night. I highly doubt it. And it just stinks because all the advertising I've done it was going to be a sellout. But realistically, I wouldn't want to drive that long just for one night so I can't blame them.

madmolly | November 28, 16:54 CET

Wouldn't they lose what ever money they'd already paid to the actors if they cancel the event too?

As far as I know they haven't actually paid the actors anything.

There's a few people who have paid $5000 for lifetime membership with Booster recently. Uhm, I worry for those peeps.

If they can't cover the expense of the con, I seriously fear Booster is about to go bankrupt.

gossi | November 28, 16:54 CET

Folks, I can't even get to the link any more. I'd say that is yet another bad sign.

I spent 4 years arranging programs around the country. At this point, I am wondering what kind of contractual arrangement any one had with the hotel. Were room blocks reserved, and how? There had to be some up-front money to do so, but I would guess no one has been in contact with the hotel for a while now, so whether or not they have released the rooms is not clear. It is unlikely that they will honor the earlier room rate, since they no longer can be sure how many will show up of the rooms that were reserved- and for those that do show, not knowing of a cancellation, many will leave, and leave angry even though the hotel had nothing to do with it. At this point, I'd suggest that not going is the only option. Suing to get the money back may feel good but is likely not going to be successful because even if you win you will not collect. This sure sucks eggs big time, oh lord.

Dana5140 | November 28, 17:02 CET

Sorry to hear about this. I'm not somebody who goes to conventions (soooo not into crowded rooms and queues, hehe) but I know that a lot of you guys really enjoyed them so this news sucks. :(

Kaine | November 28, 17:07 CET

"Regardless of whether or not that happens, I think there is clear evidence that Whedonverse conventions are a dying breed. Too expensive to run, too expensive to attend and, frankly, hello? the shows have been off the air for a long while now. Time to move on. :-) "

Sorry but I strongly disagree - the flan was a sellout success, 500 people willing to pay up to $600 each to see whedonverse actors.

If it wasn't for the financial disasters of the NON-whedonverse events, it looks as though this con would have been a true success all round.

So, hello? How about looking at it this way - several years off the air and 500 people willing to pay that much cash for a whedonverse event. Yay?

I am not keen on the implication that it is our fault for wanting a convention - those tickets are a lot of money, we bought them out. It should have worked, it didn't. The reasons it didn't are clearly mismanagement, even my poor math skills can work that one out.

[ edited by jletham on 2006-11-28 15:22 ]

jletham | November 28, 17:09 CET

While non-whedon conventions appear to be doing badly, James Marsters recently asserted in an interview that he 'makes more money' putting on his own events. Considering how much he charges to appear at other peoples events, this sounds like a tidy sum.

If an actor and his management manage to put on events that as far as I recall have never cancelled an event OR a guest AND make money to boot, why are these fan run events such nightmares for everyone involved?

Perhaps it is time for actors and other talent to ask Himber Entertainment about their business model - how to make a profit and get very few complaints in the process.

If the Queen Mary made a profit (and a nice-sized one at that) with 350 attendees at $600 and $300 per ticket, WHY are people stranded with airline and hotel costs ten days before a convention organised by fans?

As for 'time to move on', I don't want to. I enjoy my whedonverse events - if I wasn't so terrified of losing thousands in the hands of incompetent fans, I'd go to more.

jletham | November 28, 17:17 CET

Oh no. My little sister is flying out from London to go to this convention. It must have cost her a fortune. I really, really hope this gets worked out.

And I can't even get the website to work now. Fantastic.

carawj | November 28, 17:19 CET

Folks, I can't even get to the link any more. I'd say that is yet another bad sign.

I'm logged into Boosters and I can't get in, either. Pretty sure it's because so many are trying to access the site, which does tend to load up slow.

I agree with Simon. A calm and measured approach is needed here, not a fandom witch hunt.

menomegirl | November 28, 17:20 CET

Whedonverse cons are starting to tail off, no doubt about it. There's less interest. However, they *CAN* still be run. What happened here is not lack of interest. They sold out.

Also, yes, agree with Simon. Going after the people involved personally with Booster will not help. At the end of the day it's a 'virtual' company (staff not in an office) trying to run a business which turns over massive amounts of money. It looks like they got a few things wrong.

If it's confirmed canceled, ring your credit card company and ask for a "charge back" against Booster. It takes the money for the tickets back from them (it's standard with VISA, used to get money back from non-supplied services/goods). If you have non-refundable airline tickets RING THE AIRLINE - they will usually offer you some money back anyway.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-11-28 15:29 ]

gossi | November 28, 17:28 CET

If the con is canceled what do we do if we paid using a debit card? As I did with many of my purchases? If BE doesn't offer the refund for whatever reasons they may have am I just SOL?

awkwardjonas | November 28, 17:33 CET

"Perhaps it is time for actors and other talent to ask Himber Entertainment about their business model - how to make a profit and get very few complaints in the process."

I think that could very well be a key difference. With Himber Entertainment, it's a BUSINESS. Yes, they work with a fan run group, JMLive (unless I'm mistaken), but Himber Entertainment is the lead. Not to say fan run events can't work, they can, we've all seen it. However, I think that on occasion, they are run by folks whose expertise perhaps lies somewhere else, as seems to be the case here.

Also, when "personal issues" prevent people from performing their jobs, it obviously can cause issues. One con I was at (I won't mention names), the folks running it were argueing amongst themselves right out in front of the sign in table. The folks at Himber Entertainment and JMLive obviously keep professionalism to the forefront.

I feel for everyone who has a stake in the this, it sounds like lots of folks could be out lots of money. Even if they get most of it back, it sounds like a lot of effort and disappointment.

@awkwardjonas, you should be able to talk to your bank, just like with a credit card company. I've gotten purchases reversed on my debit card before.

[ edited by Grace on 2006-11-28 15:43 ]

Grace | November 28, 17:42 CET

awkwardjonas - ring your bank. Some debit card banks will pay you back, some will not.

The problem here is they are saying it might be canceled, which leaves fans in a period where they don't know if to try to get their money back or not. If the company collapses and then everybody tries to get money back, big problems fans will face. Booster need to make a public decision if they're going to cancel it about now, so that the scrap for refunds can begin. It will not be fun for fans, nor the Booster peeps.

Reading online, it's clear that some number of people haven't been refunded for NanoCon yet. That's really worrying. If you're going to seek a refund, personally I say ring your bank/credit card company. That way, you have a good chance you'll get your money back that way (unless your bank sucks).

gossi | November 28, 17:43 CET

jletham - I in *no* way meant to imply that it was the fault of attendees (or even NON-attendees like me) that this happened, and if that was the impression you got from my post I apologize. But the bottom line is that even with 500 attendees, the convention may not be happening so something's not working. I was one of the people who ran the Buffy Posting Board parties, and I can tell you right now that we'd never be able to do now what we did then. Some of us were considering a 10 year reunion PBP, but I have to say that after this situation I am more reluctant than ever to invest my time and money in the planning and execution of something that seems doomed from the start.

Speaking of which, dana5140, I booked the space for the PBPs for three years and never once had to pay a single cent in advance to the hotel for rooms. We had to pay a deposit towards the function spaces and the catering, but the hotel rooms themselves were blocked with the expectation that they would be filled to a certain quota and that would cover their (deeply discounted) cost to the hotel. IF a large number of people end up having to make their own fun, as it were, I'd say the hotel would be MORE than happy to honor the group rate rather than lose a huge block of bookings.

I am sure it's going to get me leapt on, but I'd plead for people to reserve judgment until there is a final resolution to this situation. You don't know that the event is definitely going to get cancelled, and you don't know that you won't be able to get your money back if it is. While airline tickets may be non-refundable, chances are you will find a way to use them at some other time if you have to. It's not ideal, and please don't think that I am not sympathetic to your plight or even very disappointed myself (I really thought the Booster gals were a different breed of convention organizers), but I hate to see a lynching.

*fingers crossed tightly* that things turn out well for everyone. Call me a Pollyanna, but I still have high hopes.

OzLady | November 28, 17:57 CET

But the bottom line is that even with 500 attendees, the convention may not be happening so something's not working

Yes, and IMO what isnt working is the NON-whedonverse events propped up by whedonverse fans who didnt even attend (50 tickets as opposed to 500). This is speculation but it seems logical to me that whedonverse fans are still interested in limited ticket events.

I don't want a lynching, I want resolution and as little money lost as possible. If Booster are such a professional outfit, why have we been left hanging with no answers, no decisions and a simple 'cancel flights if you like' message?

S**t happens. What counts now is how they deal with it. So far, it is less than impressive. MUCH less than impressive.

jletham | November 28, 18:04 CET

Oh man, this sucks. I had no intentions of going, but I really feel for all of you guys that were going. I hope that it happens--because I am very familiar with the immense feeling of financial/emotional loss this kind of situation causes--and if it doesn't, I hope that you all aren't screwed.

UnpluggedCrazy | November 28, 18:07 CET

From jletham

So, hello? How about looking at it this way - several years off the air and 500 people willing to pay that much cash for a whedonverse event. Yay?

Exactly.

Boy I hope this works out.

*holds breath*

mifeng | November 28, 18:17 CET

I was recently asked to be a guest at Flan 2, and I was excited about the idea of running a game and talking with folks about the potential new Serenity RPG products that we're currently trying to get approved for next year. Communication was spotty at best, and I never got a confirmation on my hotel or airline ticket. Last night I finally got notice that BE is having financial difficulties and the event may very well be cancelled. I'm very concerned about all the Browncoats who poured lots of collective dollars into the expensive convention rates, airfare, etc. Let's see how things go, but if people do truly get burned I'll see if there's anything I can offer so people get something out of all this. I was told we should know something for certain by early next week...

Jamie | November 28, 18:18 CET

Cheers for update, Jamie. I believe they are going to make the decision on Friday as to if to pull the event or not, so will probably let the guests know monday.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-11-28 16:25 ]

gossi | November 28, 18:24 CET

$50 : photo with Adam Baldwin (not to mention I purchased ALL the ops)
$330 : for plane ticket to Burbank (and then hotel room)
$1000 : for luncheon ticket (and cocktail party and banquet... I'manidiot)
Not going to Flan 2 because BE Screwed goes under... *&%#ing priceless.

This was not what I hoped to wake to this morning.

*sigh*

I'll be interested to see how this fiasco plays out.

kimiesan | November 28, 18:37 CET

This is just awful. I have metric ton of friends going. I *really, really* hope this gets resolved. My friends deserve better then this amateur, unethical cop out.

Charmuse | November 28, 18:39 CET

I am so disheartened to read all this and feel for you all. I have an online friend from Washington state who was going (she went to Flan I as well). I had hoped one day to attend one of these but who knows where the state of Browncoat Cons will be when I have the bucks. I'll keep the good wishes going so that something spectacularly positive happens between now and Friday.

Tonya J | November 28, 18:43 CET

Monday is a long long time away. I'll never get a refund on my airplane tickets because the credit card company got stuck with too many refunds when too many airlines have gone out of business. Now I would have had to take out special yearly insurance.
My friends and I planned to make a whole week of it.
Now we can only sit and wait.

Lioness | November 28, 18:48 CET

Ok, I got to speak to Christina and Morena personally up in Toronto. When I asked her, at THAT moment, she told me she hadn't been asked yet. And I have a friend who wishes to remain nameless, she said that she was as Serenity 3 in London. Someone asked Sean and he said the same thing, he hadn't been asked, as of September. Now, maybe he had been asked after that, but I don't see any reason for the actors themselves to lie?

And yes, I am one of those people who paid a LOT of money for the ebay charity auctions. 1) Did the charity even get the money? I mean yes, I'm upset, because of what I bought, how much I paid, and this was to be a treat for me. If the actors wanted to do it anyway, I would be happy, but I'm not going to hold out any hope. If the con is cancelled, and they're not getting paid, they really don't have to do anything.

EireAngel | November 28, 18:59 CET

The Flan site seems to be down - big surprise. I also could not attend but have many friends heading there from as far away as New England. I understand business flubs, but there seems to be a bit of shadiness associated with all this. It's pretty gorram incredible!

Kessa | November 28, 19:14 CET

I agree - let's look at math. It sold out 500 tickets of varying prices, but none lower than $229. Even at $229 x 500, we have $114,500. Now add on photo ops - I believe many of the solo ones were sold out - at $60-$80 a pop; banquet tickets at...$160, I think; cocktail tickets at $109 a piece; extra autographs at $25 a piece, I think -- well there's another sizeable chunk of funds. Even taking out the appearance fees of the headliners and their 50% of the photo ops, and the fees for renting the ballrooms, there is no reason there shouldn't be enough funds to put this on...provided the funds were used solely towards the Flan 2.

I mean, last year they had the entire main cast minus Gina and they weren't sold out, yet the Flan went on. So now with less main headliners and sold-out tickets, there's no reason they shouldn't have had enough.

Now, if as been hinted, they were borrowing from the left to pay the right and used Flan 2 funds to pay for other events that didn't make enough to cover their expenses, that is just bad management. And they need to do whatever they have to to make this right and happen.

But I think even if the Flan 2 goes on, not many people are going to trust them enough to buy tix for any future cons, so they're pretty dead in the water regardless.

zengrrl | November 28, 19:32 CET

Taken from the side rail of the now-bonked Booster Events main page:

LATEST TOPICS

Still Waiting for Nano Con Refund!!!
11/28/2006 12:57 PM
by Scarlet (0 replies)
...

NANO CON REFUNDS
11/27/2006 6:30 PM
by scotty (4 replies)

HudsonVC | November 28, 19:32 CET

Hudson - from the right hand side rail at the top, there's also people saying they haven't been refunded for Nano either.

Somehow, a huge chunk of money has gone missing. This somehow makes my posts on Whedonesque the other day about conventions being hell to be responsible for amusing, and very sad.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-11-28 17:41 ]

gossi | November 28, 19:39 CET

I would definitely be inclined to believe the actors in this case, as I recall Tony Head mentioning that there were several cons he was apparently scheduled to attend and then 'pulled out' of at the last minute that he had never even been contacted about. So not a history of 'ethical' communications with con-folk. Almost sounds to me that they might have pulled a "Gee, we tried to get Nathan to come, but he was just a)too expensive b)non-responsive c)pick your own excuse..." Because as important as all the BDHs are, he's Captain Mal. And I'd say if there was a 'main' guy from Serenifly, it would be him. So to not even make an attempt at getting him in sounds a little shady to me. But then, I guess this whole thread proves that this thing is more than a little shady.
This 'financial difficulty' isn't news for BE, so maybe once Nathan made it public that he was trying to get in, and they realized they couldn't pay him(or put the blame on him), they decided they'd really just have to scrap it. Just my theory, of course. Maybe they would have been in the hole without him too.

Rogue Slayer | November 28, 19:47 CET

Not what I needed to read this morning, but I am still going. At the very least, I can see the Pacific Ocean. I won't go in it... (And probably get attacked by killer bees on the way.) But I'm going.

NYPinTA | November 28, 19:48 CET

I've added the announcement to the top of the page so people can see what the score is.

Basically all people can do is:

1) Wait to see what happens on December 1st
2) Make some sort of contingency plan.

I would suggest that if the event is cancelled, some sort of forum should be set up to facilitate the concerns of ticket holders. Speculating is all well and good but until the full facts of the matter are known, saying this, that and the other is somewhat spurious and may even make concerned ticket holders feel a lot worse.

Simon | November 28, 19:50 CET

Simon. Always the life-preserving voice of reason in a sea of panic. :-)

*bows* Not worthy!

OzLady | November 28, 19:56 CET

What were the dates of the event?

Allyson | November 28, 19:57 CET

Simon, would you and Caroline be able to set up a refugee forum at .org?

Allyson | November 28, 19:59 CET

lexigeek volunteered to call the group-rate hotel on our behalf this morning. It will be interesting to see what hotel management's recent conversations with BE have entailed.

As b!X pointed out earlier, BE failed to renew its business license in Oregon, which expired Oct. 7. They're in danger of losing their entity status in that state. It could be an unfortunate coincidence. But it's not exactly confidence-building.

[ edited by HudsonVC on 2006-11-28 18:16 ]

HudsonVC | November 28, 19:59 CET

Simon, would you and Caroline be able to set up a refugee forum at .org?

I can't see that being a problem if the event does get cancelled.

Simon | November 28, 20:05 CET

Huh, I am truely at a loss for words at this point. Although I hope for the sake of all those attending, guests, dealers, and attendees, that something is worked out and the event goes on.

RavenU | November 28, 20:06 CET

I am going to guess that most of them live in Los Angeles, so there wouldn't be expenses of airline tickets or hotel rooms for them.

I attended the Angel Booster Bash and the guests did have hotel rooms even though they lived in the LA area. The commute back and forth can be a pain and its nice to have a place to crash during ones off hours during the event.

Perhaps it is time for actors and other talent to ask Himber Entertainment about their business model - how to make a profit and get very few complaints in the process.

Well, there are women who will tolerate almost anything to be in the presence of James Marsters. I had plenty of complaints about the Queen Mary event, although I did have a good time.

killinj | November 28, 20:16 CET

Thanks Simon. I think if there's a spot for everyone who intends to go to talk and make plans, they'll be able to at least be able to nail together a PBP for themselves. I'm sure that those who are friendly with actors/writers could talk to them about coming by for a few hours to hang out.

Whatever happens with the event itself, it'd be a nice Plan B.

Allyson | November 28, 20:23 CET

there are women who will tolerate almost anything to be in the presence of James Marsters

Not without complaint- Vulkon learned that lesson, eh? And that sounds a little insulting to convention goers - if actors want to do cons and women (shock horror) want to buy tickets, why shouldn't we? I'm sure you were there for some other reason, I was there to see James and his guests. Jane Espenson was a sweetheart.

I'm glad you had a good time, I just hope people planning for BE manage to have a good time too.

jletham | November 28, 20:28 CET

I attended last year's Flan with no problem. I even thought it was the best run/organized con I ever attended. When I heard about Flan 2, I had no reservations whatsoever about attending again. To wake up to this news is very disappointing. Now their website cannot even be accessed??? WTH?? To take the money of 500 people, promise them something, and not deliver is just so wrong. These people are not stupid. They knew people would be coming from all over, dropping money left and right to meet the BDH's. To cancel a pre-paid event two weeks beforehand, one that has been planned for MONTHS, is just shady. There is no way around it.

Turtle | November 28, 20:35 CET

Booster Events website is unavailable due to the amount of visitors. They haven't taken it down.

I think on Friday we need to put together a web page detailing exactly what rights people hold in terms of refunds etc.

gossi | November 28, 20:50 CET

Marsia on the Serenity Now group has just spoken to the Hilton. She says:
"I just got off the phone with the Events Department for the Hilton. Good news and ambiguous news.

Even if the event is cancelled, the room rates for those who have
already made reservations will be honored.

So far, event isn't cancelled and the Hilton is trying to work with BE. I will be called when anything changes."

Lioness | November 28, 20:54 CET

I wasn't planning on attending Flan 2, but I feel absolutely horrible for everyone who was. I hope this all gets worked out!! So sorry!

Harmalicious | November 28, 21:12 CET

Thank you, Simon, for editing my original post, it never occured to me that the BE site would go down. I'm afraid the deadline for final payments was time ago, so even if one had paid with a credit card it is probably too late to get a refund through the card. I personal paid off the charges on my card many months ago (I paid in full last Summer).
Dana5140 said:
"Suing to get the money back may feel good but is likely not going to be successful because even if you win you will not collect."
Personally I would not be 'suing' at all, I would be charging fraud and asking the State of California to represent me and others who paid in a Class Action Suit. I am not being mean, but I do think that taking in a quarter of a million dollars cannot be allowed to slide.
Naturally I hope that convention goes on as advertised, I would be much happier if BE can find a way to make sure the that happens.

embers | November 28, 21:13 CET

Lioness, do you have a link for that message? Thanks :-)

jletham | November 28, 21:14 CET

First, my sincere regrets that this is happening to so many fans. I'm not going, haven't ever gone to a con in my life, in fact. But I do have one eensie weensie teeny tiny question, which I'd love to get answered:

Assumptions, based on other posts above:
- Fans have all paid.
- Actors have not been paid their appearance fees.
- Hotel has been paid, at most, a deposit.

So, given that all the income for this event is in, and not all of the outgo has gone out, why would any rational lender cough up any money to finance it?

I could be missing other income (Are dealers paying?) but I just don't understand how it could ever get in the black, if it's too far in the red to even go forward at this point.

Sorry if that seems overly negative--I would be very pleased to find out I'd missed something, and that there WAS more hope for BE getting financing.

jclemens | November 28, 21:14 CET

Thank you, Lioness. There might be a tiny silver lining on this cloud. I hope to see lots of people in LA even if Flan doesn't happen.

One thing, though...Didn't BE add Anthony Michael Hall to the BE Scared lineup just a few weeks before the event? I can't imagine that he came cheap, and that con was under-sold...

MalNourished | November 28, 21:17 CET

I'm actually working to negotiate something with the hotel for meeting space. I was about to post the same info about the group rates. :) What I need is an idea of how many people would still be willing to show up (and stay in one of their hotel rooms) if we were to throw a replacement con. (There's no guarantee the guests will be there, but we're working on it)

Please e-mail me at adam.levermorerich[at]gmail[dot]com ASAP if you are planning to stay at the Hilton, and let me know how many nights you're going to stay. Please put FLAN/HILTON in the subject line so I can keep track of all the e-mails on this.

[ edited by lexigeek on 2006-11-28 19:19 ]

lexigeek | November 28, 21:17 CET

Wow, I really feel sorry for all of you who were looking forward to this - what a bummer!

So dark the con of flans.

m'cookies actual | November 28, 21:21 CET

Hey guys, Brian from SoCal Browncoats here. I've been talking to fellow SoCal'ers and folks from the NorCal groups all morning, and we're working on a plan B in case things do fall through with BE, so don't fret, we'll do SOMETHING fun. ;) Thanks!

Veloxi | November 28, 21:35 CET

So dark the con of flans.

Theme of the day.

Rogue Slayer | November 28, 21:37 CET

Seriously, my sympathies to all of the people involved. I rewally hope this works out for everyone, and yes cooler heads must prevail in this, want to avoid any unnecessary nastiness... I just hope something is worked out, even if the con is cancelled, and I hope people will get at least partially refunded if that is the case.

kurya | November 28, 21:41 CET

Myself and quite a few others are coming over from the UK - some of us are flying on Thursday, as we had originally booked for Nano as well. And, yes, I can confirm that no refunds for Nano have been issued - we were told to wait until after Flan, or use the money as credit. I suppose that should have set off alarm bells, but they pitched it as just difficult to process because they were so busy.

Well, we're all still coming, Flan or not (I'll already be in LA by the time they make the decision), so if there's stuff going on we'd love to be part of it.

I can also confirm that I'm one of the people who spoke to Sean and Morena in September and that they both said they hadn't been invited - and I believe that their reactions were absolutely genuine. They both actually seemed quite upset! I felt bad about posting what they had said as it seemed to cause such a fuss. Don't feel so bad about that anymore.

katyh100 | November 28, 21:44 CET

I'm planning to release our next episode of Firefly Talk on Friday, if all goes as planned. As such, if anyone has any late-breaking news that day about planned alternatives to the con, etc, please email them to me at fireflytalk@gmail.com. I'd like to have the latest info about the con status and alternatives on Friday night so I can update the BC community, and it sounds like Friday will be the day we know for sure one way or the other.

erico | November 28, 21:45 CET

One theme here emerges- there are some awfully good people working here to try and resolve an issue they had nothing to do with creating. Good on ya all, for this bad sitch.

Dana5140 | November 28, 21:48 CET

I'm glad you're finding a way to get through it, veloxi. Give a holler if you need anything on my end.

Allyson | November 28, 21:51 CET

I just got the BE site to load; although, it took 20 mintues with a cable connection. I am trying to get into the forum now. If I find any news, I will post it for everyone. If there is another forum where I should be posting this information, please let me know. I'm new to posting here and I don't want to make anyone here angry.

MalGal | November 28, 21:52 CET

This is terrible news, I hope it get works out for everyone who has paid huge sums of money to go to this event. If I would have had the money I would have been going to this event too and can image the disappointment at a possible cancellation this late in the day.

It's great to see Browncoats all pulling together (again) and trying to organise a way for the con to go ahead anyway - I really hope this all works out, and folks have a great time whatever happens.

Cider | November 28, 21:59 CET

If this event were taking place in Chicago, I would have invited you all to stay at my place.

As a fan, to see this just breaks my heart.

alexreager | November 28, 22:01 CET

Yes, the BE site does seem to be loading now, but it won't let you in to the forum threads and their 'shout out' instant message thing isn't working.

I think it will still be a while before it's working properly again.

katyh100 | November 28, 22:05 CET

My sincerest sympathy to all going/not going. I was looking forward to pictures of our Goners attendees and, of course, tales of Nathan. It's a tad selfish, but I'm now feeling extremely relieved that I put off deciding on Bash 2 in KY until after Christmas.

cabri | November 28, 22:08 CET

So I guess the important bits of info right now are:

1) The Hilton WILL honor the rates at which people have made their room reservations there.

2) Email adam.levermorerich[at]gmail[dot]com ASAP -- put FLAN/HILTON in the subject line -- if you are planning to stay at the Hilton, and let him know how many nights you're going to stay.

3) The SoCal/NoCal Browncoats are fronting the effort to have a fallback contingency con/shindig if it's needed.

theonetruebix | November 28, 22:24 CET

I've set up Flanvention Helpline, an independent news only blog. There's also a forum for wider issues.

gossi | November 28, 22:29 CET

Oh dear. Sending vibes and keeping my fingers crossed for everyone who is going. Here is hoping the con takes place or you guys at least get refunds.
Sadly I dont have the money to fly to any con anymore, but I remember saving up a whole year for the last PBP and if that would have been cancelled...

Kessie | November 28, 22:30 CET

Well, Cabri, there goes my plan to pick you up as we fly over you!

Lioness | November 28, 22:31 CET

Good idea Gossi. Feel free to make my e-mail address a link on there.

lexigeek | November 28, 22:40 CET

Lioness, I'll see if the Home Depot will take back that rope we were gonna dangle out the window.
:)

mifeng | November 28, 22:40 CET

there are women who will tolerate almost anything to be in the presence of James Marsters

Not without complaint- Vulkon learned that lesson, eh? And that sounds a little insulting to convention goers - if actors want to do cons and women (shock horror) want to buy tickets, why shouldn't we? I'm sure you were there for some other reason, I was there to see James and his guests. Jane Espenson was a sweetheart.

Of course, not without complaint. I said there were complaints. If its an insult, then I'm insulting myself. The point I was trying to make was that events put on by Himber Entertainment are not run without complaint. And frankly, fans have put up with a lot poor management from those who put on these conventions. Heck, I attended a Vulkon event, knowing their reputation, just to see certain guests.

[ edited by killinj on 2006-11-28 20:46 ]

killinj | November 28, 22:42 CET

lexigeek - done.

gossi | November 28, 22:44 CET

Because I can't get into Booster's site, I can't get a list of the vendors who were scheduled to be there. Does anyone remember off hand who all was going to be in the dealer's room?

lexigeek | November 28, 23:01 CET

Those who are interested in helping out or attending a Plan BE/BEScrewed event (if the Flan is cancelled) might want to join the SoCal Browncoats Yahoo Group.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCalBrowncoats/

deanna b | November 28, 23:05 CET

lexigeek - http://web.archive.org/web/20060504015541/www.boosterevents.com/Conventions/FlanventionII/tabid/308/Default.aspx may provide answers (I don't know where abouts it was on the site)

gossi | November 28, 23:05 CET

Saw this on a blog:

"A friend was able to get on the BE website briefly and the guest list has been cut back to five, Nathan, Christina, Jewel, Adam and Mark. I have no idea what this means."

I can't say if that's true or not as I can't get the site open.

Simon et all - could the link be changed away from Boosters website, as I believe the Whedonesque link is knocking their site offline, so they can't post updates.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-11-28 21:25 ]

gossi | November 28, 23:24 CET

From what I recall, here's a brief list of vendors:

November 28 2006