Whedonesque : Comments on 11978 : More Flanvention Confusion.

They better freaking know soon....I will be hurting people if I get there and there is no Flan...I feel so bad for the people that are already there though or that are coming in tomorrow. I don't come in till Friday so if it's cancelled I will hopefully find out before I leave...but seriously this is beyond ridiculous...this is my first time dealing with BE and I will never again deal with them.

kballgetlost | December 07, 06:40 CET

Edited in case anyone mistaked my meaning.

My first statement/question had more to do with the way bix wrote the opening post at first. He waited until he got home and he was understandably upset when he wrote it, as I'd have been in his place. Frankly, everyone was upset.

[ edited by menomegirl on 2006-12-07 20:06 ]

menomegirl | December 07, 06:46 CET

Somebody better call the SoCal Browncoats just in case. I'm smelling a lot of "if" coming off this plan.

TamaraC | December 07, 06:55 CET

How is reporting a thread that was actually posted by one of the promoters a rumor?

NYPinTA | December 07, 06:56 CET

How is reporting a thread that was actually posted by one of the promoters a rumor?

Truly. I wasn't aware that mentioning that BE itself suddenly announced Flan was cancelled, and then suddenly said "no never mind", all without explaining any of it and with no stronger assurance than "as far as I know", two days before Flan and while people are already arriving in Burbank, counts as a "rumor".

The One True b!X | December 07, 07:03 CET

No, wait - don't tell me. I just KNOW I've seen this movie somewhere before . . .

Look, there WILL be a Flan. Considering that I just finished figuring out how to pack my carry-on to comply with the shiny new airport restrictions and I have to leave my cozy home at an ungodly hour when dawn is just a vague and fuzzy concept, by every immortal god, there WILL be a Flan! I don't care at this point if it's just me and the bloomin' hotel staff - lines will be quoted, episodes dissected, and a good time will be had by all.

How do I know it'll happen? Because I have a belief worth, if not dying for, at least traveling cross-country for. ('Course that wasn't exactly Plan A, but cons just don't come here to the Rim.)

See you in the lobby!

mockingbird | December 07, 07:06 CET

Ugh. Wishing all you Flansters the best.

cronopio | December 07, 07:09 CET

Keeping my fingers and toesies crossed for luck.

Tonya J | December 07, 07:11 CET

We know, thanks Tamara. And this is just stupid. I'd say that the subject of the post (Subject: It seems the reports of our demise were premature.) is dead wrong. Whether Flan goes on or not, BE is dead. They will never be able to hold a successful convention again. Hell, they've really only had 1 out of 4 so far (2 if you want to be nice). Having (almost) screwed 500 very vocal fans this last week, don't bet on them getting any good press anytime soon.

And I too am wondering how a post by the owner of BE is a rumor?

danregal | December 07, 07:13 CET

You forgot to add that the hotel said no such thing. I called the hotel less than an hour ago and as far as they are concerned, Flan is still happening. Nobody has informed them that it is not. So, that would mean the hotel did not cancel Flan.

MalGal | December 07, 07:21 CET

yeah ok... im was not going to this, im almost dying from eating at an all you can eat sushi(no pollonium in the food at least i didnt taste any).. i was barely recovering and now this...

my stomach is churning again *sigh*... *crosses fingers,toes* Oh and stomach is in knots anyways so that counts right?

Oh and should the link be diverted somewhere else since their site will most probably crash again?

kurya | December 07, 07:21 CET

Wow, every time I log in to the Booster forum it is one damn thing after another, personally I am grateful to have it all discussed openly here (without the ass-kissing, and cover-ups we find at the Booster forum). I do have to say that even if Flan2 turns out to be the most wonderful event I've ever attended in my life, I would still not do business with BE again. I hate being jerked around and then accused of rumor-mongering when I want to know what is going on!

embers | December 07, 07:26 CET

I only just saw the bit about you calling the hotel, MalGal. That hadn't been mentioned yet when I originally posted this.

(And I'd divert the link if I could figure out where to divert it to.)

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-12-07 05:28 ]

The One True b!X | December 07, 07:27 CET

Oh and should the link be diverted somewhere else since their site will most probably crash again?

It is starting to run even slower than it usually does. Man, the words "molasses" and "winter" come to mind.

Edit: I think I'm going to cry. Seriously.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2006-12-07 05:29 ]

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2006-12-07 05:31 ]

NYPinTA | December 07, 07:27 CET

I have to say if I had paid the amount of money for a pass to this event, lets just say I would probably make bix look like the angel of mercy. Seriously, this is totally unprofessional and "cutting them some slack???"(paraphrased from one of the posters), just... well i really hope this event goes on for you guys and gals.

You know i understand how things can run into troubles and I would be understanding, but this aint no 50 bucks... this event not including hotel and airplane costs is...well I am sure a good amount of savings and debt for people. This kind of is unacceptable for the amount of money people are putting into this.
PS
is there a google cached page you can link to bix?

[ edited by kurya on 2006-12-07 05:32 ]

kurya | December 07, 07:31 CET

I'd be very wary of what the Con promoters are saying. If they say the hotel was cancelling Flan and then the hotel says they had no part in it I'd believe the hotel. My mom is a guest for some convention type things (not in the TV market) and she's had places that forget to finalize bookings with her suddenly announce that she's cancelled the booking when really it's been the organizers who've been disorganized.

Cautionary tale aside I'm wishing everyone who is going to Flan the best and hoping that in the end the event goes on spectacularly!

elizalavelle | December 07, 07:33 CET

The shout out box isn't working now.
I know eveyone wants to know what is going on, but is there any chance that if you aren't going, you not get on the site yet? Please?

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2006-12-07 05:36 ]

NYPinTA | December 07, 07:35 CET

I didn't intend that as a slight to you, b!X. I was just adding that for the record. I'm with NYP. I think I'm going to cry. I still haven't finished packing because I'm not sure if I'm going anywhere.

MalGal | December 07, 07:37 CET

BiX, how do I e-mail you? It's very important.

MalGal | December 07, 07:39 CET

I can't get the site to load anymore. Not that they would actually give us answers. Fuck! (Shit. Can I swear on this board?)

NYPinTA | December 07, 07:43 CET

Thanks for the edit, bix.

menomegirl | December 07, 07:43 CET

NYPinTA, considering the stress you are under, I would imagine it would be allowed somewhat.... although I am not a mod.

kurya | December 07, 07:52 CET

This is not at all amusing.

My plane leaves in 11 hours.

kimiesan | December 07, 08:00 CET

Does anyone know how to contact someone who would know and tell the truth? I've made several phone calls, but wasn't able to catch anyone as offices are closed for the day. I also called a friend who is already at the hotel, but she didn't answer.

[ edited by MalGal on 2006-12-07 06:18 ]

MalGal | December 07, 08:17 CET

Well, I'm leaving my house in two hours, so I'll be there either way.

I'm just glad I saw this before I left, so I'm prepared when I get there.

RachVG | December 07, 08:28 CET

Anyone have a number on Denise or Vicki? Or someone involved in BE?? This is just beyond ridiculous...

So sorry Rach *hugs*

[ edited by kballgetlost on 2006-12-07 06:40 ]

kballgetlost | December 07, 08:40 CET

Eh, I was planning on going anyway, I can't get enough money back from the flight for it to be worth cancelling it now (or at all, with the type of ticket I booked). I'll just get more time to see some of LA this way.

RachVG | December 07, 08:43 CET

Anyone have a number on Denise or Vicki? Or someone involved in BE?? This is just beyond ridiculous...
Agreed. But shouldn't they be IN California now anyhow getting the place ready? Early registration for the convention starts at 1:00 tomorrow.

NYPinTA | December 07, 08:51 CET

Well absolutely, lol but a cell phone?? Anything? They HAVE to know the panic this is causing...

kballgetlost | December 07, 08:56 CET

I have Denise's cell phone number. If you want to call her, e-mail me. Both of you have my e-mail addy.

MalGal | December 07, 08:58 CET

I'm just so pissed off... my packing is done and sleep is approaching soon.

Will the Flan be on when I wake up? Who knows.

Sad. Sad. Sad.

kimiesan | December 07, 08:58 CET

Off the Booster boards, from a Flan attendee:

...there are 5 of us sitting here in a suite at the Hilton and all seems okay to us!

There's a board downstairs in the lobby which has Flanvention II listed as one of the events, and it's been there all day.

So, as it stands right now, it's entirely and completely unclear what in the world prompted BE to announce, and then un-announce, that the hotel had cancelled Flan. But whatever it was, it apparently had convinced them enough for them to post their original announcement.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-12-07 07:20 ]

The One True b!X | December 07, 09:19 CET

Ok, you know I am not a BE Supporter but I opened the channels to the PTB to get info for you all. Everything is a go for the FLAN, one of the promoter's is on her way to LA now, the other leaves for LA in the morning. So as of right now, all the people who are suppose to be there are going to be there.

Anyone who has ever dealt with hotels before knows that they are not the best at communication and confirming information. Call one time you get one answer call another time and you get another answer.

I would not have posted this information if I did not believe it was as accurate. Because I wanted to help get some much needed info out to the people I know who are stressing over various things going on with this event.

So get packing, get some sleep, get on a plane or in a car in the morning or the next and head out to the Flan and have a Big Damn Party. Keep Shiny possative thoughts.

Hope this helps, cause I do not take events lightly and I want the fans attending to have a good time.

Anyone else notice the full moon out tonight.

RavenU | December 07, 09:21 CET

Thank you, RavenU. Do you mind if I pass this along to people at the BE board? There are some very frantic people there right now.

Also, the hotel has signs up for Flan, so it looks like what they told me is also accurate. Someone who is actually at the hotel right now posted at the BE board about the signs.

MalGal | December 07, 09:32 CET

Sure go ahead.

RavenU | December 07, 09:33 CET

Thank you very much for that and for finding out for us.

MalGal | December 07, 09:36 CET

No problem, I just don't like to see things like this spiral out of control, there will already be stress enough this weekend for everyone.

RavenU | December 07, 09:43 CET

I agree. I should have been in bed hours ago, but I've been up trying to figure out what was going to be on the other end for me when I get to Burbank tomorrow afternoon.

MalGal | December 07, 09:44 CET

This is beyond frelled up. I'm worrying for you Flan-goers, but still hoping it all turns out well for you.

Anyone who sticks up for BE at this point basically disgusts me. BE has absolutely NO right or cause to play the victim, nor are their supporters justified in painting them that way.

No one has suffered more with this utter mess than the fans. The Browncoats. The audacity some of the BE people have lamenting about their personal stress level in regards to Flanvention is pathetically inappropriate, and pales in the face of the anxiety of just one Flan-goer, not to mention all 500.

Bix, thanks for keeping us abreast of new information. I'm not a Flan ticket holder, never was, but I still appreciate it on the behalf of all the Browncoats headed to or in LA for the event.

Carmencita | December 07, 10:41 CET

Fucking A.

This is the most ridiculous fiasco I have ever witnessed in fandom. I hope these women pull off a great show for you folks, you deserve it after all this unbelievably unprofessional angst and worry.

Will scalps be taken if it doesn't happen? I doubt any court would convict.

**seeeeeething on behalf of friends and Whedonesquers**

Willowy | December 07, 10:47 CET

For the record, the original BE post about the hotel hit while I was still at work. I waited the entire half an hour until work ended PLUS the half hour to get home before posting this here. I know there are some people (still) who think I jump on BE for no reason, but I specifically made myself wait on this.

Whatever the situation, SOMETHING made BE claim the hotel had cancelled, and then suddenly turn around and tell everyone to nevermind that BE itself had posted that news. Either someone faked them out or there was a miscommunication, and BE didn't bother to get a confirmation before posting and then un-posting the news (which isn't very professional), or there's something going on, even at this late a date (which isn't very professional).

For me, that made it fair game. Your mileage may vary.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2006-12-07 08:58 ]

The One True b!X | December 07, 10:57 CET

wow. This is insane. I really hope the wonderful actors will save the weekend for all of you, despite the incompetent organization behind the event.

oanimation | December 07, 11:07 CET

So let me get this straight, we had a bit of a wobble earlier but everything is ok now? Yes? Flan II is still good to go?

Simon | December 07, 11:34 CET

Ah... no one really seems to know for sure, Simon. There are a lot of rumours on the BE forums that make it sound as if things are a little bit shaky still (guests rumoured to be cancelled, organizers allegedly still negotiating space/fees for the convention, etc.) so it's a little too early to tell.

Domi | December 07, 11:39 CET

This is making me physically sick to think about. I spent so much money on this con, the plane ticket and hotel...it makes me ill really.

If things go wrong and people are still going to be there, I volunteer to help organize something, may it be day trips to Hollywood or anything.

I'm headed off to take a nap before I leave for the airport. See you all in Cali!

awkwardjonas | December 07, 11:54 CET

Realy feeling for all you folks with tix to Flan II. Last week must have been bad enough without this uncertainty so close to the event. I hope all goes well and whatever happens you all have a great time and get at least a portion of your money's worth.

Cider | December 07, 12:27 CET

Deja vu much? But it sounds like you just can't kill this convention, no matter how messed up the "organizers" are. Browncoats, go; you will have fun together, and someone -- whether it's BE or SoCal Browncoats (yay again to them!) or a traveling sock puppet theatre -- will make sure there are things to do, from what I can tell from all these posts. I agree that b!X was absolutely right to post this here; it was from BE, on their boards (which load slowly), so it's no rumor IMO, and here is a place where many voices with a lot of resources (from people at the Hilton to the wonderful, wonderful RavenU) can share what they know. This is a place where we can look at rumors or confusion or whatever you want to call it and get the facts. Yay Whedonesque (as usual)! ;-)

billz | December 07, 13:03 CET

Sigh, not again!
Well, it's too late to turn back now. I'm coming this afternoon, and have a good Hollywood Holiday time, if nothing else. I'm sure that it will still be an unforgettable weekend, no matter what.

impalergeneral | December 07, 13:37 CET

, you must have misunderstood my origional post on this thread. I wasn't objecting to this being posted here. It was the tone of delivery I had the problem with; bix got that and edited.

menomegirl | December 07, 15:22 CET

I'm not even going to bother trying to explain this since I don't know what actually happened. I do know as the person who booked the hotel and function space for the PBP for three years that if you talk to the wrong person at the venue, even if you are the aforementioned person in charge, you can be given horrendously wrong, terribly distressing information and then have to debate whether to let attendees know or wait and see if you can get confirmation from someone else first. I chose to do the latter (more than once), and no one who went to PBP was ever the wiser (oops. Until now. ;-). BE chose to do the former and caused unnecessary panic. You can't have it both ways, people- either you want information as it becomes available and are willing to deal with the emotional fallout thereof or you want to be kept in the dark until the last possible second and risk not being able to make informed decisions.

OzLady | December 07, 15:51 CET

You make a good point, OzLady. It is a question of which is the greater good. IMO, I vote for waiting for confirmations, as you have chosen to do in the past (your honesty rocks!), esp. since this one seemed easy enough to confirm.

billz | December 07, 16:39 CET

Thanks billz. I have to be honest- even to this day I wonder if I did the right thing. Then I recall the following story and think 'It could be worse!' ;-)

Before I was associated with the PBP Committee, in fact the first year I attended the PBP, there was a snafu with the liquor license. Rather than hold a dry event, the organizers chose to pay for the open bar out of pocket (since they couldn't legally SELL alcohol) and took a huge financial hit. Of course, only a select few were made aware of what really had happened; the Committee just announced "Free booze!" (or a facsimile thereof)and looked like, well, big damn heroes. ;-)

I have to say at this juncture that I don't want it to appear that I am unsympathetic to those whose plans are thrown into turmoil by this roller coaster ride. I really do feel dreadful for you, honest! But I even more hate to see people falsely accused of something they may not be guilty of, and that is what is motivating my ongoing plea for calm and patience. That said, if it comes to light that my pleas were, in fact, made in defending people who actually HAD done everything (or even a portion thereof) they were accused of, the way I currently speak about another convention and its organizer is going to look like a love letter by comparison.

OzLady | December 07, 17:05 CET

Great story, OzLady! (Note to self: must go places where nice people announce "Free booze!") ;-)

billz | December 07, 17:46 CET

(Note to self: must go places where nice people announce "Free booze!") ;-)

This happened when I went to the Serenity premiere after party in London. It lead to many hazy memories, and an £85 taxi across London at 3am.

gossi | December 07, 18:09 CET

Hazy but great, yes gossi?

sorchasilver | December 07, 18:55 CET

*kicks BE in the shins*

mifeng | December 07, 18:59 CET

Hazy but great, yes gossi?

I got to give Joss free brooze, so.. yes. It ranked highly on kick ass days of my life. My only regret is being too drunk to say anything useful.

Also, regarding BE - saying it's cancelled a day before it's due to kick off without being sure is pretty much unforgivable for the people attending, I suspect. Whilst I'm sure the show will go on, you do have to wonder how they can salvage a reputation from this.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-12-07 17:13 ]

gossi | December 07, 19:11 CET

My thoughts are with all of you who are going. I cringed seeing this thread and wondered how things could get even more fu... screwed up for you guys. I hope you have a blast, despite all the agony you have been put through, and I hope there are no more surprises.

palehorse | December 07, 20:28 CET

Seems to me, if BE isn't financially tanked after this event, as Gossi mentioned, their reputation alone may be damaged beyond resuscitation. Are we seeing the beginning of the end of BE? Or did that happen a while ago? Shame, either way. I hear they've put on some pretty decent events.

Um, Gossi didn't mention finances, he mentioned reputation. My sentence structure is damaged beyond resuscitation...

Rogue Slayer | December 07, 20:47 CET

Gossi didn't mention finances, he mentioned reputation. My sentence structure is damaged beyond resuscitation...

This has a very interesting beat to it.

The One True b!X | December 07, 20:53 CET

*thinking positive for all the Flannies!*

It will all be fine. You will have a blast. Drink to much and fall down and laugh until your abs hurt! Drool on Nathan for me! Have fun guys!

Charmuse | December 07, 21:15 CET

"Drool on Nathan for me" Well I do not know if Nathan would apprciate that....

kurya | December 07, 21:18 CET

Speaking of the beat...

BE broke, Browncoats bothered

(its one of those 4 word stories we were doing a while back

Personally, I think this one is sadder than the unused baby shoes for sale.)

alexreager | December 07, 21:30 CET

Nathan bottles all the drool and sells it on eBay. It's how he's so damn rich.

How Booster can save both their reputation AND finances from this is questionable. The have taken on board extra loans (source: BE) to run the event as they had a financial shortfall (source: BE) somehow, so if things go shakey now, on top of the problems before, you know. That's not good.

I understand the organisers are on the road to the event now (they live elsewhere in the US), so obviously are going to be out of contact for a while now. If they are traveling to the event, it seems very likely something is going to happen, but they are cutting it extremely, extremely close if things are still not finalised at this stage. There is no complete confirmation from the organisers the event is still on.

Hopefully the vibes everybody is seeing are wrong, and things go fairly to plan.

One comment I'd like to tackle:

You know, I had no doubt in my mind this would be up here and am not surprised at the poster. Has reporting rumors become the thing now?

As others have pointed out, it's hardly rumours. The person who owns the company posted both topics mentioned on Whedonesque, and the summary is factually correct.

gossi | December 07, 21:42 CET

I'm aware of that, gossi. That had more to do with the way bix wrote the thing at first. He waited until he got home and he was understandably upset when he wrote it, as I'd have been in his place. He got what I meant and he edited. I can edit my comment to him, if you wish?

menomegirl | December 07, 21:53 CET

Oh, sorry, I hadn't realised it had been edited. Go me.

gossi | December 07, 21:57 CET

*g* Everyone was a bit upset. This whole thing is just bad, you know? For everyone involved. It's very sad.

menomegirl | December 07, 22:01 CET

I feel sorry for the fans. Really do. I also feel a bit sorry for some of the people involved in BE who haven't had a full clue of the various problems, who could ultimately be held accountable for the problems at the company if it goes under.

At the end of the day, this convention was announced a *YEAR AGO* and sold out in advance. They shouldn't be organsing the convention hotel with one day to go. It's a complete farce.

gossi | December 07, 22:15 CET

They shouldn't be organsing the convention hotel with one day to go. It's a complete farce.

Totally agreed. This is rediculous. This doesn't even give us time to PLAN the BBB if Flan falls through.

BrianRubin | December 07, 22:22 CET

I can get onto the site but I have no objection to the link being changed if others are having difficulty. Or alternatively, if there is any new 100% reliable info I can change the subject line accordingly.

As much as I hate to say it, I'm channeling Ian Brown at The Late Show here. But anyway, I sincerely hope that everything goes to plan and that the bad and sad feelings can be delayed till the post mortem.

Simon | December 07, 22:41 CET

Simon - I've put a blog posting here if it's of use.

gossi | December 07, 22:49 CET

New post on Booster Events by one "serenity114"

"I just got off the phone with Nathan Fillion's representation. Either she was entirely misinformed, or the Flan has been cancelled. Nathan was indeed scheduled to appear and they received the call yesterday from Denise's husband Dave around 5pm saying it was cancelled.

I have not posted a single thing regarding this entire situation, but after the rumors today and last night I felt I had to be active, so I went straight to the top. Which are the actors, since they are presumably told first. "

Take it with a grain of salt,of course...

Lady Brick | December 07, 22:56 CET

5pm is when Denise announced it was cancelled on the forums, and then at 5.35pm she went back on that and said it wasn't cancelled.

Somebody on the Helpline forum rang the Hilton just now and was told it's still uncertain as to if the event is going ahead.

At the moment, it seems like nobody actually knows what is happening.

gossi | December 07, 23:04 CET

Uh! I just talked to Nathan Fillion's representation myself. She told me that as of late yesterday afternoon, Flan was cancelled. In fact, she made it a point to say that it was not Nathan who cancelled. I'm hoping it's misinformation at this point or miscommunication and please bear in mind, me saying that does not make it official.

menomegirl | December 07, 23:06 CET

Yuhuh. Nathan's respresentation was told it was cancelled, I can confirm that, but at the same time they did the forum announcement. Nobody from Booster has relayed them the 2nd Denise post (linked here) saying it's back on, which does not inspire me with confidence.

I'm amused to see what Nathan's representation are stressing to people about it not being Nathan who cancelled. Read between the lines.

By the way, it seems Nathan's agents number is going all over the internet now due to the thing on Booster's forum - might want to avoid that, peeps, they'll get annoyed.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-12-07 21:10 ]

gossi | December 07, 23:09 CET

Just saw this on the Booster Board:

12/07/2006 11:12 AM Alert
I have agreed to turn over my 50% of the company to Dave Adams. (pending legal paperwork from an attorney naturally) any official word regarding Flanvention from this point on will be coming from Denise or Dave Adams.

Vicki

No idea what this means for the folks going to/already at Flan.

Syren | December 07, 23:52 CET

This is bad. Especially since if it had been cancelled in even as timely a way as last week, we locals could have had an alternate event going by now. What the hell?

ETA: There's some massages on the California Browncoats boards about restarting Plan B. But what can be done now, I don't know.

[ edited by dreamlogic on 2006-12-07 22:06 ]

dreamlogic | December 07, 23:56 CET

Supposedly the Dave mentioned is on his way down from Oregon, a 14 hour drive. There was an impromptu meeting in the hotel lobby. I got a message that while they don't really have any staff, the con is still on, with all the talent.

There will be a meeting again around 5:30 to update if there is an update available.

I will try and keep in contact with those at the hotel to keep updates for those that are not.

At this point the Backup Bash folks will do something if the event is cancelled. We'll be making any
announcements here and on site.

ETA: Just got word that there is no early registration as shown on the schedule. Unless you want to wait around for news, there does not seem to be a need to go to the hotel today.

[ edited by danregal on 2006-12-07 22:08 ]

danregal | December 08, 00:04 CET

This is just disgusting.
I do not care how rude it sounds but the ladies of BE have done so much wrong doing and are taking no blame here.
How can these people actually sleep at night?
I am not even going to this event this year but I feel so bad for everyone that spent there hard earned money on this.
I feel ill about this.

SillyD | December 08, 00:06 CET

This is really sickening to hear about. What a fiasco.

punkinpuss | December 08, 00:12 CET

Sorry, double post.

[ edited by punkinpuss on 2006-12-07 22:13 ]

punkinpuss | December 08, 00:12 CET

My heart is aching for all the Flanventioneers, vendors, and actors. {{{{{Sending good thoughts your way, guys!}}}}}

Tonya J | December 08, 00:13 CET

Anyone out there at the hotel should really let the BE folks know that Nathan's rep (at the very least) is not aware that the event is once again on. They need to see to that.

NoSadSeven | December 08, 00:19 CET

Update: the Vicki mentioned above owns half the company. The Dave mentioned is Denise's husband. Vicki wants to hand her half of the company over now to Dave.

Additional update: the preevent registration is not happening.

Another update: nobody who owns or is responsible for the company is at the event yet.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-12-07 22:22 ]

gossi | December 08, 00:21 CET

So Vicki left and SockLover also resigned...Nathan's camp believes the whole event is cancelled so I'm not thinking anything good is going to come of all this.

kballgetlost | December 08, 00:21 CET

There will be a meeting again around 5:30 to update if there is an update available.

I will try and keep in contact with those at the hotel to keep updates for those that are not.

At this point the Backup Bash folks will do something if the event is cancelled. We'll be making any announcements here and on site.

If the update says the event is cancelled, can some one please post a new thread about it.

Simon | December 08, 00:23 CET

Nathan is back, danregal? When his representatives thought it was cancelled? I'm not trying to add more confusion, I'm just really confused.

I'm still volunteering for whatever backup can be done.

dreamlogic | December 08, 00:24 CET

NoSadSeven: they aren't at the hotel. The people who own the company haven't actually turned up to the event.

gossi | December 08, 00:24 CET

Hmm... I think I have a pretty good idea of what happened, but I'm not going to speculate since I certainly don't have any proof.

Suffice it to say that I really hope that Denise and Dave Adams are still able to pull off Flan with no talent cancellations (regardless of the source) and no snafus with venue, etc. And even more I hope that regardless of what happens, everyone who attends has the time of his/her life!

What a mess. :-(

OzLady | December 08, 00:26 CET

I just don't see how Nathan's camp wouldn't know that they were still booked and that Nathan is supposed to attend the event. You would think someone from BE would have TOLD them the event was still on...thats what makes me weary...along with a few other things..

kballgetlost | December 08, 00:29 CET

OMFG! My heart goes out to all Browncoats heading toward Los Angeles, and those already there. I can't believe this!!!!!

billz | December 08, 00:30 CET

I should add a 'yet' to my last post.

gossi | December 08, 00:31 CET

Suffice it to say that I really hope that Denise and Dave Adams are still able to pull off Flan with no talent cancellations

I second that.

What a mess.

menomegirl | December 08, 00:33 CET

If my timing sucks I humbly apologise.

I have followed this the last weeks, and have been really upset on account of all the people affected by this mess. Not being able to help has been really frustrating. My heart is exhausted from worrying about you all and everything you have staked on this, financial and expectation wise.

But in all the uncertainty and confusion:
Only one Verse has Flans, which makes it unique. And a family!
Against the odds, so many of this family are coming together from all around the world. What a support group!
To me it feels like a small but warm and brilliantly shining…something!

I’m willing to bet it is still going to be a good memory, but in an unusual and unexpected way. And I KNOW there are tons of people around the globe, sending you all the best wishes and positive vibes for you all to feed on. If I had the opportunity, I would be running circles around you, and being that really, really annoying cheerful person. ( Annoyance factor to help with the bonding?)
Glad to help.

But seriously. Have a great family weekend whatever else happens!

onesnailshort | December 08, 00:37 CET

Yeah gossi, I had assumed that danregal's mentioned impromptu meeting in the hotel lobby included BE folks. Since it didn't, I'm wanting to know where the message that flan is still on with all the talent came from. My concern is that BE does not even realize that there is an issue there (with the talent).

NoSadSeven | December 08, 00:39 CET

onesnailshort: I think your timing is perfect. It's times like these when people most need support from their fellow fans and a reminder of why their fandom came to mean so much to them in the first place.

Lady Brick | December 08, 00:41 CET

From the Browncoat Backup Bash Crew:

First off, let me state that we sincerely hope Flan goes off without a hitch this weekend. We are looking forward to a great weekend with all the Browncoats and the BDH's.

But in light of today's events, we have to plan for the worst case scenario. Let me assure you that we will have an event of some kind no matter what happens. Adam and some of the BBB crew are on their way down from NoCal and are strategizing while driving. We are going to plan as much as we can while still looking forward to Flan.

We want to make sure that everyone stays as calm as possible and knows that we are doing everything we can to make sure we have the best weekend possible. Updates will be coming as we can. There are people at the hotel who will let us know as events happen.

Please let's keep going in true Browncoat fashion and make this a positive event, and show just how great the Browncoats are as a fandom. We can work on that wrath thing after the weekend.

Can everyone please post this around the net so the word gets spread as quick as possible the BBB is back on if Flan gets cancelled. Thank you!

danregal | December 08, 00:45 CET

Yeah gossi, I had assumed that danregal's mentioned impromptu meeting in the hotel lobby included BE folks. Since it didn't, I'm wanting to know where the message that flan is still on with all the talent came from.

According to a source on site, the information is from someone who spoke to Dave of BE.

danregal | December 08, 00:48 CET

But is BE aware that the guests still think the event is cancelled? I still don't see why Nathan's people wouldn't know the event is on....doesn't make sense! And SoCal browncoats rock!

kballgetlost | December 08, 00:51 CET

I know the Browncoats are a “can do” group and I'm trying to be a positive thinker too but conjecture is getting the best of me and these points are too big to ignore...

1. They announced that the event was cancelled a week ago and there were a ton of very vocal fans calling for everything from the good (a back-up gathering) to the bad (class action law suits and questioning relationships with a charity--Fact based or not, allegations were made on this site and many others)

2. BE sees the fans reaction and says, Hey wait a minute, these “rumors are false!” Flan is a go! Why the sudden change? I am guessing that BE was trying to legally cover their butts. For example, even if the organizers sit in a room at the Hilton and call it FLAN 2, with or without guests, they have covered their asses in terms of law suits. Obviously, as many have already stated, their reputation as convention promoters is likely finished….so if you cant salvage your rep, you try to limit liability.

3. Now that there is no time to react, they can safely cancel the party with as little collateral damage (and personal damage) as possible. Now that it’s coming down to the wire, everyone is heading for cover. One of the partners is POSTING that they are selling 50% of their stake in the company? Does this mean that the partner who’s selling was the innocent party? I read this to mean the other partner screwed up the finances and is letting the other person out before she’s served with papers.

4. On top of all this, the biggest name star slated to appear, gets a call yesterday (YESTERDAY!!!) to notify that the show was cancelled? People don’t call movie stars to cancel an event unless it really is cancelled. Period.

Again, I think this latest news about Our Captain just got the best of my good nature and before everyone jumps on me, I did qualify this as conjecture. I really hope FLAN2 happens but I will not be shocked to read about charred effigies come Monday.

alexreager | December 08, 00:54 CET

kballgetlost- Believe me, it's possible. Nathan has more than one rep, so it could be that one person knows and another doesn't. Or it could be that someone spoke to Nathan directly and he hasn't yet informed his rep. Or it could be something as simple as a message was left with the admin. assistant and has not yet been delivered. Here's hoping it's one of those and not something *bad*

OzLady | December 08, 00:54 CET

OzLady - I hope that is the case but things just seem too fishy right now.

kballgetlost | December 08, 00:59 CET

kballgetlost- I am loathe to say it (and I for one really REALLY hate conjecture), but I have to agree.

On a happier note, what on EARTH does your name mean?!? It makes me laugh! :-D

OzLady | December 08, 01:01 CET

OzLady - lol k is the first letter of my first name, ball is my last name and Lost was the first big fandom I got into. And back in season 1 people were always saying "get lost" to mean "watch the show" so I just combined everything and made it my name, lol. Now I carry it everywhere I go! But glad it makes you laugh!

kballgetlost | December 08, 01:14 CET

>>For example, even if the organizers sit in a room at the Hilton and call it FLAN 2, with or without guests, they have covered their asses in terms of law suits. Obviously, as many have already stated, their reputation as convention promoters is likely finished….so if you cant salvage your rep, you try to limit liability.<<

I'm starting to speculate that this is gonna be most the likely scenario - that there WILL be a Flan just not one with any BDHs. Still, I want you all to have fun no matter what.....and go for the throat AFTER the weekend is finished.

The Hey | December 08, 01:19 CET

Ok here's my question. I thought that BE stated that if the ACTORS cancelled (be it for whatever reason) then they aren't entitled to refund us (as what happened with Alan because he was filming). But if BE cancelled the actors (for whatever reasons) then aren't we entitled to refunds for not getting what we paid for?

kballgetlost | December 08, 01:22 CET

>>Ok here's my question. I thought that BE stated that if the ACTORS cancelled (be it for whatever reason) then they aren't entitled to refund us (as what happened with Alan because he was filming). But if BE cancelled the actors (for whatever reasons) then aren't we entitled to refunds for not getting what we paid for?<<

At MR last summer Adam canceled but NO ONE got any partial refunds - Adam's fee went right into MR's pocket.

[ edited by The Hey on 2006-12-07 23:32 ]

The Hey | December 08, 01:29 CET

The Hey, that's a different situation, though. In that case the actor cancelled, not the convention cancelled the actor's appearance.

gossi | December 08, 01:31 CET

Yea my questions pertains to what happens if BE cancels the actors....anyone know?

kballgetlost | December 08, 01:34 CET

kballgetlost - it depends on state and federal law, I suppose. In other words, no idea.

Quite often convention organisers just claim the actors cancelled, regardless of if people know different. Happens all the time (somebody mentioned it up thread in this topic as it happens!). Saves them paying out.

gossi | December 08, 01:36 CET

Well boys and girls, despite being a confirmed guest at Flan 2 (Jamie Chambers, the guy near the bottom of the guest list), I have never received travel or hotel information from Booster Events -- despite several reminders from me and a few "you'll have it soon" messages from them. I was ready to go to the show and was looking forward to seeing everyone. But at this point I'm not holding my breath.

Jamie | December 08, 01:55 CET

>>The Hey, that's a different situation, though. In that case the actor canceled, not the convention canceled the actor's appearance.<<

Well, there are accounts on both sides of that issue, but that's another story for another time.

But either way, one would think if the guest cancels or, in some cases, the actor is asked not to come for whatever reason, that fee money is in the hands of the organizer.

If someone pays $250 to see 3 guests and only one or two show up, I would like to know what happens to the money that would have sent to the missing guests.

The Hey | December 08, 02:14 CET

Jamie, that's dreadful. I'm so sorry. Do you mind my asking who from Booster you had been in touch with? Depending on your answer, I have in mind two scenarios as to what might have happened to get this whole big, ugly, black snowball rollin'...

OzLady | December 08, 02:17 CET

If there are issues with the hotel, it's probably because they decided they wanted payment in advance. I was involved in organizing a technical conf. once, and we paid a deposit first and then paid the total bill on the last day of the conference. But if you were the hotel, would you trust BE to pay up afterwords? Also, I don't understand who would loan them money since the payback would have to come from future conferences (since they apparantly no longer have the Flan mney). Given that their reputation is ruined, I doubt they will be putting on any future conferences. Now it appears that they have been jerking around the actors too. I bet actors aren't gonna want to work with them in the future even if the fans were willing to buy tickets.

Liz | December 08, 02:19 CET

Damn, sorry to hear that Jamie, I was looking forward to meeting ya. I had a lot of fun with the Serenity RPG...wah...

BrianRubin | December 08, 02:24 CET

OzLady: I have been speaking with Denise since the beginning.

Jamie | December 08, 02:25 CET

Just a note in passing. I hope everything goes off with minimal fuss and wish all those going well.

This suddenly just doesn't seem as crucial to me right now since my house just caught on fire.

Will check back later.

*hugs*

menomegirl | December 08, 02:28 CET

Cripes. I hope you're ok.

Simon | December 08, 02:34 CET

There's a topic called "UPDATE - PLEASE READ" from one of the forum posters on the site. It's a rehash of what was posted here earlier and removed. It says things are still on and all the guests are planned, but to be honest - I'll believe it when I see it. The source of the information is Dave Adams, who is driving to the event.

I still can't believe the convention has begun (registrations were supposed to have started earlier today) and none of the people who are actually responsible for the company have turned up, and now there's people online posting updates from the lobby for other customers.

ETA: Fire, bad.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-12-08 00:35 ]

gossi | December 08, 02:35 CET

Oh goodness gracious! Menomegirl, be well and please let us know that everything turned out okay!

Jamie, thanks for the info. So you've never spoken to Vicki who today announced that she was selling her 50% share in the company to Denise's husband Dave. As Arte Johnson said, "Verrrrry intehrehshting..." (Yes, I am really that old. ;-) Here's hoping everything still turns out okay!

OzLady | December 08, 02:39 CET

Yes, the lobby here sure is the hub of all.. uh.. excitement?

The One True b!X | December 08, 02:39 CET

Is Vicki selling her share? I wouldn't have thought there's much to sell, really.

gossi | December 08, 02:45 CET

If anyone is still going, please stop by the dealers table selling the shot glasses. I just sent off a few things to her to sell on behalf of the 'Star For Whedon' group to raise some funds for the star.

Trying to keep possative thoughts.

RavenU | December 08, 02:50 CET

I´m still keeping my fingers crossed for everyone here, hoping the con will happen as planned.

Yikes Menomegirl. Hope everything is all right with you and yours.

Kessie | December 08, 02:52 CET

Yes, she announced that apparently. But you've got me as to what there is to sell, gossi. It may be more the power to make decisions and whatnot that she is handing over. And it may not necessarily have happened solely at her behest... but again, that's conjecture and we all know my feelings on THAT. ;-)

bix, do you all have any fun dinner plans? :-)

OzLady | December 08, 02:52 CET

Fire Bad, indeed. Just came back before I leave for the night to tell you I'm okay but I panicked big time.

Observations: black smoke stinks. I never knew a stove could catch on fire without it being on and I'm thinking I might replace the electric stove that caught on fire and ruined my kitchen with a gas one.

Good thing I wanted to redecorate the freaking thing anyhow.

*sighs*

Now I gotta start cleaning this mess up.

*headdesk*

Thanks, guys.

menomegirl | December 08, 02:58 CET

bix, do you all have any fun dinner plans? :-)

Well, actually, people from the Goners boards are supposed to be meeting at 7 I think.

The One True b!X | December 08, 03:06 CET

Does this mean I can break the Goners board whilst nobody is looking?

gossi | December 08, 03:08 CET

i certainly hope all of this goes as planned. sorry to hear about all of the issues. i'll stay abreast of the situation and report it on the podcast, whether good or bad.

jimmy x | December 08, 03:09 CET

I think you could probably break it WHILE people were looking, gossi *snare drum*

Thank you! Thank you! I'm here all week- try the veal! :-D

OzLady | December 08, 03:10 CET

Just so everyone knows, if the event truly is officially cancelled and the local Browncoats host a backup event of some kind -- Margaret Weis Productions, Ltd. will offer prize support in the form of Serenity RPG product and possibly other merchandise we have in stock.

As of this morning (Thursday) I still thought I was getting on a plane early tomorrow morning...

Jamie | December 08, 03:11 CET

Thanx, Jamie. You rock.

The Hey | December 08, 03:13 CET

Ah shucks Jamie, sorry to hear that you won't be here. I really was looking forward to some Serenity RPG funtivities and book signage. Still, you will be there in spirit, and so great of you to bestow prizes to the gang to bring some RPG goodness to a very emotionally buffeted event.

If I had bought tickets, and made expensive travel arrangements, for Flan I'd be so extremely miffed right now ("extremely miffed" being the PG terminology for the actual words in my head). My heart goes out to everyone who is going through so much stress over the wild ups, downs and sideways changes on this roller coaster ride.

However this plays out, I echo the sentiments of those who know that when Browncoats get together in one place, a shiny time will be had.

'specially if there's a bar anywheres close by...

(Edited to fix a spelling thing... I knew that word was weird somehow... and Hi J! I'll most likely be lurking about at some point...)

[ edited by 11thHour on 2006-12-08 01:39 ]

11thHour | December 08, 03:22 CET

Hi 11th!

No matter what happens, there will be a bar very near when we gather in the...wait for it...hotel bar, on Saturday night for the SoCal shindig.

Hope to see you there! And everyone else in the area too.

Much alcohol will be consumed either to drown sorrows or in relief that the con is happening.

danregal | December 08, 03:29 CET

gossi: "Does this mean I can break the Goners board whilst nobody is looking?"

As OzLady said, you prolly could break the Goners board anyway if you wanted to. But you should know there's a very feisty, festive and Flan-less faction left on the Goners Board and they are partying up a storm to compensate for the Flangoers' absences. Listen, you can almost hear them...

*shuts door quickly to cut noise of Goner revelry..

Hope Flan continues, hope houses stay burn-free, and sorry for all whose lives were made so uncertain by all of this BE-crap.

Um, I'll be in the Goners' party thread. I hear there's a Barbeque-and-Shots thingy later... And I think we're having an informal sock-puppet presentation of OMWF after the shots-contest, but I could be wrong...

QuoterGal | December 08, 03:40 CET

I was thinking of stopping by to say hello, dan. What's the what?

Allyson | December 08, 03:42 CET

From socklover:

I have not been told one way or another, but at this point, I don't really care! As a volunteer, I refuse to be put in the position of answering questions that I don't know the answers to! Actually, from reading the posts on here, you all know more than I do! We just got internet access late last night, and other than text messages from fellow con attendees keeping me updated with board posts, I'm hearing the news just like you.

As of last night, I resigned from having anything to do with BE.

[ edited by gossi on 2006-12-08 13:12 ]

gossi | December 08, 03:51 CET

The SoCal shindig will mainly be at the Burbank Hilton Bar on Saturday night. One of the locals will also be hosting a room party starting at 6 PM and running most of the night. We'll have the room number posted on the SoCal board as soon as we have it, probably early Saturday. The room will be a good meeting point, and possibly just a little less noisy then the bar. There will be some drinks and snacks provided by the hosts, but bringing something to share is always appreciated.

If Flan is on, the bar party will be around 11 PM and on. If no Flan, I'm guessing it will start earlier since no panels will get in the way.

We wanted something everyone could do whether they had a Flan pass or not, and a convenient hotel bar made the decision pretty easy. Browncoats do have a certain liking of alcoholic beverages. :)

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but if anyone has questions, just ask or post them on the SoCal yahoo group.

Hope to see you there.

danregal | December 08, 03:55 CET

Gossi, I think it's Richard Shannon, yes? And a 2 day reign with BE? He/she's already resigned?? Wow, I have to say, this is a drama worth watching. I hope it all works out for attendees, but I can't deny it's better than anything on tv of late(except House and BSG).

Rogue Slayer | December 08, 03:57 CET

Names, backwards, me? Yeah. Woops.

gossi | December 08, 04:00 CET

Cancelled according to www.boosterevents.com

danregal | December 08, 04:03 CET

Wow, really sorry guys. This sucks for all of you, but you can have one helluva back up bash!

Rogue Slayer | December 08, 04:05 CET

Yeah, the company website is gone. New topic started. James - will contact you shortly

gossi | December 08, 04:08 CET

Unfreaking believable. Well, guess it's time to begin the inevitably laborious process of getting our money refunded.

skeezycheese | December 08, 04:10 CET

They took down the site. OH MY GOD

posted at boosterevents.com
Booster Entertainment apologizes for the great inconvenience, but due to unforeseen circumstances, Flanvention is cancelled. An official notice will be posted within 10 days.

SillyD | December 08, 04:10 CET

In-effing-credible.

QuoterGal | December 08, 04:13 CET

Wow, this is unbelievable. Anyone care to explain how the BE ladies could possibly have handled this any worse?

helcat | December 08, 04:14 CET

Oh my God. This is unbelievable. My sympathies to everyone who's signed up/gone to Flanvention.

non sequitur | December 08, 04:33 CET

For some Shiny news, the Beldlam Bards just showed up at the hotel to entertained those at the hotel.

RavenU | December 08, 04:50 CET

December 07 2006