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December 20 2006

Buffy season 8 comic book writers announced! Find out who's onboard from the old Mutant Enemy days (and the comic book world) and lots more in this Joss Whedon interview at the Wizard website. Oh and an update from Joss on who else is writing.

A veritable who’s who of comic book writing talent that includes Brian K. Vaughan (Ex Machina), Brad Meltzer (Justice League of America) and Jeph Loeb (Onslaught Reborn), along with former “Buffy” TV writers Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Drew Greenberg and Steven DeKnight.


Wow.

Honestly, who didn't see BKV coming on for this?
Heaven. Thank you, Jay Wee.
Dude! With the... and the... DUDE!
Yay, fantastic ! JaneEsp ! The Two Drews ! The lad DeKnight ! That's almost my dream line-up (wouldn't have minded Ben Edlund getting an arc too).

Neither Jeph Loeb nor BKV are surprises given Joss' relationship with them but they're still welcome, pleasant additions (and Brad Meltzer can also make with the story, 'Identity Crisis' was the wielder of much rulage and not the arbitrary 'let them eat cake, off with their heads' kind, nope, it was more along the lines of a benevolent dictatorship ;).

One question remains though: Where the hell is March ? It should definitely be here by now, I crossed my fingers and everything, but so far no sign.

(also, anyone notice that if they all get an arc each and Joss, as previously stated, does the first and last 4 issues then that adds up to nine 4 issue arcs of Buffy goodness ? Saaweeet !)
Oh, this is wonderful! O.K., I'm ready for this lame year to be over now. Next one sounds better!
And those in the UK can now pre-order/subscribe from Forbidden Planet. So that's easier than TFAW.
*snoopy dance! SNOOPY DANCE!* My day hath been madeth.
Yes, Willow is hot.
I am so happy right now. I loved the show more than anything, but it had its run, and it was a great run. But I do miss the characters to the point of, *a lot*, so to see who's going to bring them to life again...March can't come soon enough.
What a coooooooooooool line up - yes, worthy of 11 additional 'o's!

Really glad to see Jane Espenson in there along with Drew Goddard (thank you forever for the genius that is Selfless) and Drew Greenberg (fresh from his own version of genius at Dexter).

Glad Steven DeKinight gets a shot too, given that he was originally recruited for Buffy: the Animated series.

The only show writers missing that I would have liked to see are David Fury, Doug Petrie and Ben Edlund. Perhaps they will be for Season 9?

What? I can dream, can't I?
"The only show writers missing that I would have liked to see are David Fury, Doug Petrie and Ben Edlund. Perhaps they will be for Season 9?

What? I can dream, can't I?'


...or S6 of Angel which should start right after S8 of Buffy is finished, right?

I know, I'm soooo greedy. ;-)

[ edited by newcj on 2006-12-20 17:46 ]
It's like the band's got back together again. This makes me very happy.
Drew and Selfless: watched yesterday.
I miss Doug Petrie though, 'cause I love him. But dream line-up, except the one...
Yes, an Angel S6 would really rock hard, except the whole 'rights' issue might make that impossible. Unless Joss was writing for both companies, or alternated seasons and companies...C'mon, he can toss another project on the load!
Dang. I'm stunned. Sitting here with a stupid grin on my face. Wow.

Well this is just...neat!
This. Is. Awesome.
Oh.My.God. That is so sweeeet! I love alot of things, but very few can induce that frisson of anticipation like fresh work from Joss & company.
Loeb and Meltzer, I could do without, as neither's comic work has been particularly impressive of late.

The rest of the lineup looks fantastic, obviously.
Nice article. It was written before I had a chance to talk to Petrie. He's in.

There's other peeps I'd love to have, but a lot of them are busy and I've got to make sure I've got the peeps already named orgabanized. It's very confusing, running a show entirely from one's computer.

More revelations to come...
Thanks Joss! You can probably guess we're pleased.
*waves to Joss* Happy Christmakwanzaahanukkah (as my daughter calls it) to you, Kai and the kids! Thanks for 'putting the band back together!' :-D
Loeb and Meltzer are great and love that Goddard and DeKnight are involved.Great news about Petrie too.
Doug Petrie's Ring of Fire was one of the best Buffy comics I've ever read. He nailed the Giles and Angelus scenes. Have a look see.
THANK YOU Joss!!

Doug Petrie too! This just gets better and better. Everytime I hear more I realize that I am going to actually have to go to a comic store and buy a comic when it comes out and then repeat indefinitly. Arghhh. At first I figured without the actors I would not get into it very much, (Theater person here.) even though there was that nagging thought of "but it is Joss and BtVS together!" Then I saw the preview, laughed with glee at the whole immortal thing and knew I had to read it...but maybe when they are gathered together. Now I love the line-up of writers so much I don't think I can possibly wait. But ghaaa, going to the comic book store regularly and then waiting for the next issue? Ok, so maybe this *will* make me bite the bullet.

Joss you are truly evil...but in a good way.
Come on Boss, why so sneaky and hush hush?! Pleeeeease give us details!! Happy Holidays Boss!
Too bad that Tim Minear won't being doing an arc,at last check anyway.Even though he was Angel exclusive writer on the series,I would love to see him try his hand at Buffy.

Here's an idea,any chance that Amber Benson could do an arc?She's written for the Buffy comics before.
Cheers for the info Joss, Happy Monday to you and yours (and a cracking and prosperous New Year to boot).

And, what's more, Petrie ! I believe I shall indulge in a w00t !

*ahem, gargles* doh, rae, me, soh ...

w00t !

(ta for the 'Ring of Fire' link too Simon)
This is so cooooooool!!! And thanks for the update, Joss. I'm so looking forward to this.
Wow, this is like Superman assembling the Justice League!

(Yes, was watching cartoons last night.)
He had me at Jane.
I'll just agree with Skeezycheeses above.
What fantastic news!

And a holiday gift that doesn't involve overcommercialized stuff stuff and more stuff.
This is such exciting news! I had already been excited about Buffy getting an 8th season, but now with this amazing line-up of great writers it will be getting all kinds of attention from the comic book world (not just from us Buffy fans). I've been reading the exciting adventures of the Astonishing X-men and I've been blown away, in spite have never having been an X-men fan before. So I am really beside myself with excitement about this Buffy series. Thank you, Joss!
Awesome line-up! Great writers, all! Now if that Buffy picture could only be in slightly more human proportions....
I've surprised myself with my excitement about this comic and the writers named sound wonderful but I would swoon with ecstasy if I heard Amber Benson was in with a chance. Wannablessedbe is blessed with this: "My heart doesn’t stutter".

[ edited by moley75 on 2006-12-20 20:06 ]
He had me at Goddard.lol

Yeah,I would love it if Amber got a chance to write an arc for this which is why I brought it up.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 19:59 ]
No Fury?! Wha...?!

Oh, well. The lineup kicks ass despite lacking the mustard man. Vaughan's issues are gonna rock.
Wow... just wow!

skeezycheeses: He had me at Jane.


Definitely, I was hoping for 1 or 2 Mutant Enemy writers and was hoping it would include Jane Espenson. I certainly didn't expect this many of the old Buffy gang to be coming back.

Plus outside of ME writers, one of my favorite comic book writers Brian K. Vaughan, who's just perfect for Buffy judging him the very Buffy-like Runaways series.

Also 9 writers doing 4 issue story arcs = 36 issues + Whedon's "4 issue season final" means possibly 40 issues!! Unless the 4 issue story arc doesn't hold, but still I imagine we are looking at 30-something issues instead of just 20-something issues. Unless things are wrapped up for "Season 8" and then continue on for a "Season 9"?

I'm a tradepaperback type guy, picking up collections instead of individual comic book issues, but I'm certainly going to have to start up a pull list and get these Buffy issues as they come out.
If this was slotted at a year or two, with Matt_Fabb's calculations, does this mean it's going to be BIWEEKLY? Oh my god, it's like having Buffy back on TV.
I've gone mostly for trade paperbacks/graphic novels/collections, my single-issue buying had been whittled down to just Y: The Last Man and Runaways (and Dawn when Joseph Michael Linsner's in mini-series mode). Y's going to end later next year and Runaways will probably run for years and would've been my sole monthly book. There's no way I can wait for Buffy in TPB form though, even though that'll eventually be the way it ends up on my DVD shelf when I finally get around to buying the series set.

Very happy about Brian K. Vaughan jumping on. He was one of the few non-Mutant Enemy writers I was interested in seeing take a shot at the Buffyverse. Was hoping the rest would all be ME folks. Willing to give Loeb and Meltzer a try though (I wish they'd credited Loeb in the article with something other than "Onslaught Reborn" though. The original mega-crossover of that villain inspired me to quit reading Marvel superhero books at the time and I can't believe they're going back to him/it. Can't leave well enough alone).

They picked pretty much the best of the latter-seasons ME writers ('specially Goddard and DeKnight. Damn did DeKnight give us some of the best of Season 6. I feel Drew Greenberg had maybe a couple very good eps, but also had some serious mediocrity. He's done incredible on Dexter, though). And then of course Jane, would've been a crime to leave her out and deprive us of her quality.
I wish Rebecca Rand Kirschner were onboard too.
I'm assuming when it comes to the trade collection,Dark Horse would probably do it by arcs?

I'll admit,I'm a old school comic collector.I like having and reading individule issues as they come out.For me,there is just something fun about diving into my stack of comic books that come in each week.

Spit-balling some other comic book writers that would be cool to have do arcs are Peter David,Geoff Johns and Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa.Besides Peter David,maybe some of the other IDW Angelverse writers doing a Buffy arc would be interesting like Brian Lynch for example.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 20:51 ]
Let me echo everyone else's "Wow." Great line-up of writers. So happy that Jane Espenson is included. I'm not surprised that David Fury is not on the list. In one of his interviews that I've read, he stated that writing a comic was as much work as writing a show and that he really didn't seem that interested in doing one again.

I was hoping that Brian Lynch would be one of the writers. I think he's doing an outstanding job in Spike: Asylum and he'd do a wonderful job in the Buffy series. Who knows, maybe not all the writers were listed, just the better known ones to get a buzz going.

Either way, I'm very excited about this upcoming series. Yippee. Something to brighten the dulldrums of March.
Waves at Joss

This news makes me want to dance a dance happier than Snoopy ever danced! Delightful and delovely.
Yay Jane Espenson! Thanks Joss!

Now just throw some decent Spike and Angel into the mix for her to 'play with' and I'd be content.

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2006-12-20 21:03 ]
I'm surprised that nobody had commented on this bit of goodness yet:

Although vampiric Buffy love interests Spike and Angel are currently featured in comics at publisher IDW, Whedon let slip that they could still make their way into a Season Eight comic.


I'd be very pleased to see either of them make an appearance. Here's hoping that DH and IDW can work out a way to make this happen.
There is joy in Mudville!
Or there will be in March. Which is typically also muddy.
Me, too, I'd love to see Amber Benson get a chance (heh heh, Chance...) to write in the series, but there's this little thing called Tara... oh wait! Now, there's an idea! :-)

The rest of the line-up is really great, and I am beyond happy to see Jane involved. Plus, Meltzer! My brain is getting meshuggabanized!
Yes, I agree, stuart, I hope Spike & Angel make their way into the comic, just wouldn't be the same without 'em.
I think Joss is a prince among men! Despite being cruelly elf-erized on that other thread, he nonetheless lets us know that Doug Petrie is in, and that more writerly revelations are to come (I'm hoping that may include David Fury, although I'm happy enough with who we do have.)

I'm so happy to have a Buffy-Jane Espenson intersection to look forward to in the New Year.

It's like getting a bunch o' tiny !kittens! for Christmas.
This news makes me so happy. I hope each wtiter does a full arc and we keep getting new issues of Buffy for years to come.
Doug Petrie's Ring of Fire happens to be the only Buffy graphic novel (aside from Fray) available in my school library Simon. The Angelus and Giles scenes do kick ass. Season Two was the best. Let's hope season 8 can match it.
"Wow, this is like Superman assembling the Justice League!

(Yes, was watching cartoons last night.)
Pointy | December 20, 19:35 CET "


As a non-cartoon person I kept finding myself combining Yul Brenner gathering the Magnificent Seven with Paul Newman gathering the con men in The Sting...
Yes, Petrie was the only name I found conspicuously missing from the article. And now he's there too!!

As if I wasn't in before...
Well on the Angel and Spike issue,Joss is just repeating what he's been saying in all his interviews,that he will only use them sparingly and when it makes sense,story wise.I think people are honestly setting themselves up for major disappointment if they are expecting any substantial Angel and Spike appearances or major roles.

Truthfully,in this season 8 series,I don't want Angel and Spike to have a major presence and hope Joss sticks with what he's been saying and only use them in a limited/minor capacity.Other then some mentions,dealing with plot points raised on Angel and flashbacks,I just don't think they belong in a story that takes place at the same time as Angel season 5 when we know already,exactly where they are and what they are doing during this period of continuity.I suspect Joss feels the same way given his comments here about how it has to be story driven.As well as all his interviews recently about this subject and how he would use them sparingly anyway even if they weren't at IDW.I agree with him,don't put them in there just to put them in.

Now if and when Joss moves past season 8 into a post BTVS/ATS Not Fade Away period,then I would love to see a big crossover with everybody.Not just only the vampires either but the surviors of Angel's team as well.As Joss said in one of his other interviews about post NFA and what happened in the alley," ''That's a story for another time, another place.''First he has to bring Buffy continuity up with Angel continuity,which I would assume is one of the purposes of this season 8 series.And in continuity,at this time both Angel and Spike are in L.A. and don't have any direct interaction with Buffy and the Scoobies other then Andrew in Damage and TGIQ.The only other things were the two phone calls.The one between Angel and Buffy mentioned in,Just Rewards and Angel and Giles in Shells.


I just saw this.Brian K.Vaughn joins the staff of Lost.

http://bkv.tv/pages/blog/2006/12/lost-putting-tv-back-in-bkvtv.html

He also talks about doing an arc for season 8 of Buffy.

And no, I'm absolutely not leaving comics. There are a lot of Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina fans at the show, so everyone has been great about leaving me just enough time to work on those books, and even some new ones, including an upcoming four-issue stint on that Runaways guy Joss Whedon's "eighth season" of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER over at Dark Horse. Stay tuned for news on the all-important creator-owned front, as well.


[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 22:49 ]
According to Dark Horse's Jeremy at the Browncoat Backup Bash, Season 8 of Buffy would last about 24-28 issues. So it's possible not all of them will be writing 4 issue arcs. He also revealed that Joss would be writing the first 4 and then the last 4 issues.
*spins in happy circles*
It's also possible, I would suspect, that some of them could be team-writing an arc. Which is sort of the same thing danregal just said, but with the caveat that even if all arcs are four issues, doesn't mean each writer gets a whole one to his/herself.
And I'd like to thank Anna for sending an email letting me know that it's "who's onboard" and not "whose onboard". Grammar is very important.
Yeah, I thought about that after I wrote the first part. I'm guessing there will be some co-writing for some of the arcs.
1. I am super excited! All our favorites are coming out of the woodwork to help Joss bring back the Buffster!!!

2. Buffyfantic had a GREAT idea; Put everyone in the 'Verse in a comic and my 2 cents added...Call the comic, "The 'Verse"

3. My vote for last minte fill-in creative team: Orson Scott Card writes and Richard Corben draws. As long as this is turning into a major event with a superstar team of industry (and Verse) giants...Can you pull a few strings Joss? I'd really love to see Corben's take on Willow.
Awesome! I am pretty excited about the Buffy comic and it's great to see such a wealth of talent onboard. Now all that remains is to wildly speculate about what we're going to be seeing. I hope they at least mention Anya's death and that we see Buffy reach a whole new level of character development now that her life will have changed so much.
We started watching an episode of Buffy each night with our 12-year old son a few months ago (first time through for him). We just watched The Body the other night. Doing some rough estimation, and figuring for some breaks for holidays, heavy homework nights, etc., I'm thinking we *may* finish the series right at the same time the comics start coming out.

*excited*
He had me at Joss.
I love that Jane, Doug, and Goddard all three are in, because I love their writing a lot, (the three of them + Joss we're my wish list), and it's very nice to see the other Drew and Steven DeKnight are in, too. I don't really know the comic writers, but from what I've read they must be great too. Awesome list!
I'm all giddy right now.

The only show writers missing that I would have liked to see are David Fury, and Ben Edlund. Perhaps they will be for Season 9?


Ditto.
Now Joss must start inviting some artist friends for alternate covers.
I'll suffer economically, but my collector side is starting to crave for some.
I don't remember Buffy, but I do recall special covers and/or variants being mentioned for the upcoming Serenity comic.
2. Buffyfantic had a GREAT idea; Put everyone in the 'Verse in a comic and my 2 cents added...Call the comic, "The 'Verse"


Man,that would be perfect for after the season 8 series and what I would love to see happen.A big canon Dark Horse/IDW inter-company crossover event set after NFA,revealing what happened in the alley and featuring all the surviving characters from both shows.With Joss overseeing it like season 8 and possibly writing some or all of it as well.

I don't really know the comic writers, but from what I've read they must be great too. Awesome list!


They are some of the best in the medium.Plus they have great credits outside comics.Jeph Loeb wrote the films,Commando,Teen Wolf and Teen Wolf Too.He was a producer and writer for Smallville durning seasons 2-4.He was a producer on Lost for a season.He's currently a producer and writer on Heroes.He was going to be the showrunner of Buffy The Animated Series as well when that project was alive.

Brad Meltzer is a best selling novelist.He was also the co-creator of the short lived series,Jack & Bobby.We got the news that Brian K.Vaughn is going to be working on Lost.

Hey,here's an idea,what about Rob Thomas of Veronica Mars doing an arc?Or at least draw him into a cameo as a character in an issue since Joss appeared on his show in a small role for an episode.lol
buffyfanatic Yeah, I know Joss only intends to use both of out favorite vampire 'sparingly' but a girl can dream can't she?

Lets face it, I'd rather have more Spike and Angel interaction then another boat load of flaming potentials cluttering up the place as they did in season seven.

God weren't they a waste of space......
As Ben Edlund never wrote for Buffy, wanting him is like wanting Tim Minear. Not that they couldn't do it, but I'm glad they've got Buffy's strongest writers on board.

No one's missing Marti?
Ben Edlund wrote one of the better stories (IMO, as always) in 'Tales of the Vampires' (as well as the mighty - and nigh invulnerable ;) - 'Tick') so he's proven his comics mettle but I take the point that he's an unknown commodity when strictly considering the Buffy characters.

And all those realists talking about co-writers, do you mind ? You're pissing all over my 9 arc wishful thinking ;).

(there're a whole bunch of folk i'd like to see on there even after we run out of 'verse writers e.g. Richard Morgan did a couple of nice 'Black Widow' minis but we'd need infinite arcs to fit them all in. So I propose infinite additional seasons in comic form. Joss, don't see it as an impossible problem, see it as an impossible opportunity ;)
Does anyone know a comic shop in Amsterdam that might carry this title? I'm tired of paying the exorbitant shipping costs from the USA.
I was, crossoverman, I just haven't got the foggiest notion what she's doing now after the Brothers and Sisters-thingy - 'specially as she didn't show up for some Whedon'verse panels at WorldCon in August. Didn't know what, if anything, that may have meant, so I just kept my little hopes to myself...

So, yeah, I'd like to see Marti in there, but yes! I'm a fan of all seasons, including the controversial Season 6, myself, and I like most of her writing from other seasons - especially "The Wish" from Season Three. I'm forever grateful for the existence of "Willow Vamp."
No one's missing Marti?


I miss Marti but we don't really associate her with Buffy comics. So her name did not spring to mind.
*sigh* Okay, I've now officially devolved from 'normal middle-aged humanish female' to 'rabid comic geek fangirl': I signed up for the newsletter (from the contest thread) and officially subscribed to Buffy on TFAW. I had to because with these writers, 'specially Doug Petrie, I am nearly speechless in anticipation. Though obviously not quite.
*sigh* Okay, I've now officially devolved from 'normal middle-aged humanish female' to 'rabid comic geek fangirl'

oh, this is so the definition of me right now
I always find these 'favorite writer' things curious. The story process on Buffy was highly collaborative and always overseen by Joss, so isn't it kind of moot?
Woohoo! I love it! My comic's pull list just keeps getting longer and longer. I think I'd like to see Ed Brubaker and Mark Millar work on arcs too. Maybe even Gail Simone. Except I think some of them are exclusive. But if Joss can get Loeb then I don't see why he can't get them. But I think Millar would just make everybody ridiculously bad ass. Is Jeantry drawing the whole thing? I think it'd be cool too if we get something like we got for the writers for the art. I want some Cassiday!

What exactly is Edlund doing now?
a woo and a hoo. So excited! These are great writers! Kudos to Joss!
What a nice Christmas present! But I'm not good at waiting, which is one of the many reasons I prefer novels over comics. May I have them all now? Please?
You don’t want to just say it’s the next day, because it’s not for so many of us.

So fess up. For which of us is it still just the next day?

[ edited by Lioness on 2006-12-21 02:13 ]
*swoons while squeeing (in a manly way)* ;-)
So, there some interest in these Buffy comics?
Better yet, is there any way people can get standing orders for each issue? Way back in the day, you could subscribe to DC for your favorite comics. Maybe Dark Horse can do the same.
Personally, I hope they become so impressive, SMG, David Boreanaz and the gang actually volunteer to make the comics into movies. Hey, I can dream, can't i?
I second the notion of SMG and DB offering to make that movie, they both have said some pretty pro things about doing a movie, so who knows, maybe we'll get to see Buffy big screen after all. It appears to be in Joss's hands.

About these other writers...I love the choices, especially DP. He wrote one of my all time Buffy eps. "Enemies". Man that was brilliant. I think he may very well be my second favorite Buffy writer with Joss in the lead. Jane is great because she does comedy so well.

The main answer I want from these comics...what are my favorite four people in the verse doing now? Why wasn't Buffy there at the end of NFA with her army of slayers? Why in the world did Giles refuse to help Fred? I think maybe I have quite a few questions after thinking about it. More than anything I can not wait to see what Joss has in store for Buffy.
Angel and Spike may be used? That's great, although I agree it might be difficult because this is happening during the ATS season 5 timeline. I have more of an interest to see these teams pair back up after season 8 of Buffy. THAT would be a great time.
Please no Fury - he was too Spike happy. I'll be tired of this series if it mentions Spike or his "relationship" again. I can't express my disappointment with those seasons. I think the series should go back to its roots when it was universally loved.

[ edited by cityof on 2006-12-21 04:52 ]
Does anyone feel Spike and Angel will prolly appear in a flashback scenario? Seems like the only real way the would work in this series.
I seriously cannot wait for this to come out!
@impalergeneral: find any online comics shop -- including the one that hit the homepage today(?) for some contest. they'll hook you up with a subscription. and these days, it's like amazon -- you'll end up paying less than cover, most likely.

of course, building a relationship with your local comics shop is by far the better way to go.
Okay, Slayers are strong, vampires and demons are not so good, and Willow’s hot.


That's what I've always said. ;-)

...And, wow. This is just so amazing. I am so very glad to see some of the best from the ME days, especially Jane. How wonderful she is!

As far as the comics writers go, the only one I'm not so enthused with is Jeph Loeb. I honestly haven't cared for anything that's he done other than that season of Lost. Still...this is Buffy, and Buffy has never (no, not even during S6, and especially not S7, which was one of the strongest) been anything less than great.

Less than three months to go!
@FlightofSerenity - I saw Ben Edlund's name appear in the 'Supernatural' Credits a while back - can't remember in what capacity though.

My issues are already ordered (I mention it everytime I am in the shop) now I really can't wait to get my hands on them.
@Caroline:
This German online shop sells American comics in Germany, shipping within Germany is 2.50€, international shipping is the actual postage fee (according to their website). Should be cheaper for you than ordering from the States. (I haven't seen Buffy listet there yet, but that's where I bought my Serenity comics, I'm sure they'll sell Buffy as well.)

[ edited by Ariane on 2006-12-21 11:22 ]
"Please no Fury - he was too Spike happy. I'll be tired of this series if it mentions Spike or his "relationship" again. I can't express my disappointment with those seasons. I think the series should go back to its roots when it was universally loved."

Err, no. Not from where I'm standing.
I'll add some noise to the cheers in here. I'm very much looking forward to this, and the announced writers... well, I'll probably both be buying these in single issues and in TPB's.

Does anyone know a comic shop in Amsterdam that might carry this title? I'm tired of paying the exorbitant shipping costs from the USA.


You could try one of these:
- Lambiek
- Wonderland

But there's actually quite a lot of comicshops in Amsterdam. Any shop that sells single issues can order the comics for you if they aren't ordering them already. Just ask for 'em. The title's in the newest issue of Previews (the "magazine" most comic shops order these comics from), so it should be easy enough to find.
City Of: I hear what you're saying and have a desire to see certain things brought back to the mix myself but David Fury? I really liked him as a Buffy writer.
I'm glad to see so many original writers on board. Now I KNOW it'll rock the tacos.

I will miss Marti though. If I'm not mistaken, this is the woman that wrote the animal cookie bit people. That will be one of my favorites forever!

Hippo Dignity!

I mock you with my monkey pants! (i own monkey pants for just this reason :D )
I'm with the others who don't really know the comic writers well enough to comment but I'm absolutely thrilled with the news that so many of the show writers are onboard for this. Amazing news.

As for the Angel and Spike issue, as long as this is going to be set at the same time as Angel season five then obviously there can be no present day guest spots of our two favourite vamps, except maybe in a story towards the end of the year when we see two black coated figures brawling at the back of a night club as Buffy is leaving, hehe.

Even so, I'm hoping that the events of Angel's fifth season are mentioned. In particular I want to see what happens when Andrew brings Dana home. Should be interesting.
IMO, Fury is incredibly talented and is proving it daily in the shows he's involved in. With his presence these shows are being nominated for Emmys.

My user name explains it all. Obviously, I love Spike. I have to say I do find it ironic that Fury is now considered the pro-Spike guy... Hey, YAY if he is.

I do agree that I don't see why we would expect much of Spike or Angel, simply because they were both in LA,and this is suppose to be seen as canon.

[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-12-21 17:16 ]
Caroline (and anyone else for that matter), check out www.the-master-list.com for an international list of comic stores. I believe the List lists only stores that carry American comics.

For the Netherlands, there's also www.comicasa.nl for mail orders.

Retailer orders for #1 are due on January 13th, so if you're planning on preordering, I'd recommend doing it before then so the retailers can see how much interest there really is. :-)

And if the monkey pants make an appearance in the comic, I'll swoon. :-)
"I second the notion of SMG and DB offering to make that movie, they both have said some pretty pro things about doing a movie, so who knows, maybe we'll get to see Buffy big screen after all. It appears to be in Joss's hands."
Patting poor, sweet, delusional Cheryl on the head.

Buffyfanatic is right though. If this comic is set in the time period of Angel Season 5, there is no way for Spike and Angel to be in it. Like he (she?) said we know where they are and what they are doing. Still, its nice that perhaps they will at least be mentioned.

Didn't Seth Green improvise the monkey pants?

And David Fury is a great writer and a very fine and funny human being but I never would call him "Spike Happy."
No way.

The only writer I would consider with me on the Spike love is Jane. The rest of them tolerate him. They still write him great for the most part, but no love there. JMO.
Didn't Seth Green improvise the monkey pants?


I know that part of it was improvised but not all. I think he improvised the part about the monkey being french. but now just to be sure I'll have to watch that ep with the commentary again. But either way. I LOVE SETH TOO!
You mean to say that all monkeys are not really french?

So much for that theory. Made so much sense too.
It is a story of the Scoobies and the new Slayers so I would not expect Spike or Angel to show up and I would not want them shoehorned in just because. On the other hand it is good to hear that it is possible to use them to tie up loose the ends that were dangling through Ats S5. From what has been said I would imagine that Spike and Angel would only be in telephone calls, flashbacks or appearing through Andrew's point of view. Andrew is part of the gang at this point and he did have quite a few encounters with them, not all of them necessarily already shown on screen. It would not be out of the question to have an Andrew centered issue or two, even though I personally am all for using Andrew sparingly.

"Please no Fury - he was too Spike happy."
cityof | December 21, 04:50 CET


I am still getting used to fandom, much less BtVS fandom so this always makes me go "huh?" All the writers wrote all the characters. To me it does not make a lot of sense to judge them as writers by how many of their episodes delt with a specific character. It was and still is Joss's show. If it is time to have a story dealing with a particular character, then it is time and someone will be tapped to write it. I don't really understand what that has to do with...anything. The question for me is simply, "Did they do a good job?" which in the case of the BtVS writers I consistently answer "Yes!"

"And David Fury is a great writer and a very fine and funny human being but I never would call him "Spike Happy."
No way.

The only writer I would consider with me on the Spike love is Jane. The rest of them tolerate him. They still write him great for the most part, but no love there. JMO."
Xane | December 21, 19:36 CET


Admittedly one of the joys of JE's episodes is the love for pretty much all the characters that she splashes all over the screen. Over and over again, however, I have heard/read writers say how "magic" JM was as Spike, or how much the character brought to the show. I have read JM quoted as saying that the reasons he had such memorable scenes was that the writers always seemed write more than was really needed for Spike, but that it would usually get cut down to the best parts. In Joss's commentaries there are various affectionate comments about "our boy" when referring to Spike. All in all it seems like there was a lot of Spike love, while there was also disagreement on the nature of the character. To me that seems like a healthy combination to keep the writing of the character sharp and complex.

"You mean to say that all monkeys are not really french?

So much for that theory. Made so much sense too."


Have faith. Just because it was not in the script, that does not mean it isn't true. ;-)
We can only hope, newcj. :D

Regarding what you said about the writers various opinions on Spike. I think you are hitting the nail on the head when you say that it wasn't that they didn't like to write for Spike, rather that they often had different ideas about how he should be written. I'd imagine that Spike would be quite a difficult character to get a grip on, especially during seasons four and five where he had a real duality of nature that made him extremely difficult to judge, even from the viewers point of view. For a writer, to know exactly where to place Spike on the good/evil scale at that point in the story must have been very difficult indeed.
As for the Angel and Spike issue, as long as this is going to be set at the same time as Angel season five then obviously there can be no present day guest spots of our two favourite vamps, except maybe in a story towards the end of the year when we see two black coated figures brawling at the back of a night club as Buffy is leaving, hehe.


Spoilers for anyone who missed those preview pages a week ago.

And we now know,that wasn't even Buffy.lol

Even so, I'm hoping that the events of Angel's fifth season are mentioned. In particular I want to see what happens when Andrew brings Dana home. Should be interesting.
The Immortal | December 21, 17:11 CET


Pretty sure it will be.Dark Horse Editor Scott Allie confirmed in the most recent Buffy magazine that they would be addressing the issues raised during the last season of Angel with Buffy and the gang but not in a way that fans are expecting.He warned to expect to be surprised.I think given the recent spoilers about Buffy,The Immortal and stuff,we are already seeing Allie's warnings coming to pass.So yeah,I expect Anngel and Spike mentions,some flashbacks or things of that nature.Andrew describing things that happened in Damage and TGIQ with panels of the two vamps appearing as he talks.Seeing the Giles side of the conversation in Shells and such.But really that's all there should be given the timeline and I think that is one of the reasons Joss has said he would only use them sparingly anyway even if they were owned by Dark Horse.

IMO, Fury is incredibly talented and is proving it daily in the shows he's involved in. With his presence these shows are being nominated for Emmys.

My user name explains it all. Obviously, I love Spike. I have to say I do find it ironic that Fury is now considered the pro-Spike guy... Hey, YAY if he is.


I never thought he was anti Spike.I don't think any of the writers are anti any of the characters.They have favorites,they have opinions on things on the show that not all fans agree with and even the writers themselves don't all agree with each other.Fans have there preferences for various reasons as well.Some fans don't like a writers opinion on certain storylines.Some fans don't like the way a writer wrote a certain character etc etc.But I don't thnk any of the writers were anti characters.

For the record,I would love David Fury to write an arc.
Buffyfantic - "And we now know,that wasn't even Buffy.lol"

Huh? We do? When did this happen? Usually I'd avoid spoiler details but this I need to know.
Buffyfantic - "And we now know,that wasn't even Buffy.lol"

Huh? We do? When did this happen? Usually I'd avoid spoiler details but this I need to know.
The Immortal | December 21, 22:38 CET


Spoiler Warning again



Preview pages came out last week with a Joss interview at T.V. Guide Online.They reveal that Buffy was never dating The Immortal and it was a body double we saw in TGIQ.Her friends thought she would be a target so they set up two body doubles to draw attention away from her real locations.One of the stand ins was the one we saw partying in Rome.It was all Andrew's idea to have the Rome double,date The Immortal because he researched him and thought it would be funny.

So Buffy was never dating The Immortal.Sounds like she's never even met the guy.Buffy wasn't even in Rome during TGIQ and Andrew was lying to Angel and Spike in the episode.

Here's the link to the thread.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/11979

Here's the dialog from the preview pages that annagranfors transcribed.

page 1:
The thing about changing the world...
Once you do it, the world's all different.

page 2-3:
Everybody calls me "ma'am" these days.

page 4:
There used to be one slayer in all the world.
Eighteen hundred now, that we've counted. Almost five hundred working with (Dr.[?]) in ten separate (?).
There's even three of me.

page 5:
"Field's (?) and we're on the roof."
"Access should be right in front of you."
"Leah, open her up."
The guys figured I was a target...set up two other slayers to be me. One's underground. Literally.
One's in Rome partying very publicly--and supposedly dating some guy called "The Immortal".
That part was Andrew's idea. He did research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason.
"Can't see a thing, ma'am."
"Can SMELL a thing, though."
Here at Command Central, not so much with the hilarious.
More with the "what the hell am I doing?"
"What th' hell is she doing?"
It's not all that different, though.
Still got my demons.
And I still got my watcher.



Basically,Joss just wiped away TGIQ which I personally love.lol

A link to the pages are in that thread so you can see them yourself as well..

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-22 02:07 ]
Xane: You think the dilusion is what? That SMG and DB have said pro movie comments, or that it rests in Joss's hands?
Wherever the power lay, all three of these magnificent people have made some pro Buffy movie comments in the past. If you're interested, email me and I will send them to you. It's really quite exciting. The possibilities are endless. :)
Count me as one of those die hard fans that still crave Buffy Big Screen the Jossian way. Spiderman, Superman, The Hulk or Buffy and Angel? No contest. Joss has ruined me for what I need to see in a Hero.
The most recent thing from DB was not terribly encouraging on the movie front iirc. He's doing a fantastic job on Bones, I love Seeley to bits.

Oh, I love Heroes too. Especially Hiro. ;0)

Yeah, I love me my heroes off the shows. They are all heroes actually. I still say Xander is probably the bravest, what with having no special powers or anything. But you just can't beat two souled vampire Champions waving around a sword in the air, if you ask me. They can buckle my swash any day. ;0) Damn, but I want DB and JM to work together again. The perfect acting chemistry of the shows imo.
I. Love. My. JOSS.

Stupid Immortal! YAY!!!!!

This fangirl is pleased. Very very pleased. This fangirl now has to wait until March. TOOOORTURE.
Count me as one of the curious only for Buffy season 8. I won't start getting excited until Joss announces Angel season 6. And then I'll be doing some squeeing for sure! Not to mention pre-ordering ;)
BrightShiner - "Stupid Immortal! YAY!!!!!"

HEY!!!

Oh, wait. You mean that other The Immortal. That's okay then... ;)

And thanks for that, Buffyfantic. Much appreciated. :)
Buffyfantic said: "Basically,Joss just wiped away TGIQ which I personally love.lol"
But I don't feel that that is really true, that episode is still about Angel and Spike focusing on their own priorities and moving on with their own lives. I actually feel that this new twist (in the up-coming comic book) fits perfectly because I thought that the blonde we glimpsed dancing looked nothing like Buffy, and she didn't dance with Buffy's rhythm (her hair didn't bounce like Buffy's hair), so I think that this explains all that to my satisfaction.
I had two issues with TGIQ - I didn't really find it funny AND I didn't like how it portrayed Buffy. This retcon solves the second problem. I don't think it'll ever be funny.
I dont know, TGIQ was never one of my favorite episodes of Angel (though I like the idea of Angel and Spike moving on from Buffy), but the only thing I really didnt like was how it portrayed Buffy. Now that Joss is going back to fix it, there is a part of me that screams "too little too late", that wonders why you put Buffy in that position in the first place (I shouldnt even mention seasons 6 and 7), and then wonders if the real motivation behind the season 8 comic is to fix these problems that should never have occured in the first place.

I was reading the other day on "another site" (TWOP--lol, yes I still love that place) that there are many who dont consider this to be canon, no matter how many times Joss says that it is, and it got me to thinking (which if you are familiar with ANY of my posts, you know thats a bad thing). Does the artist have a responsibility to the fans of a character? Or even fans of a show? I love Xander, but his marginalization will always be one of my worst things ever. In Buffy's case, you really do see alot of anti-Buffy opinions because of the actions of seasons 6 and 7 and TGIQ, and though he may go back and try to fix it, im not sure thats enough. Once a person has been dragged through the mud, no matter how much you scrub there are times when you are never going to get it all off, you know what I mean?

I like the idea that Joss is going to go back and try to fix these things, but I dont know im just not that excited about this anymore because im not sure he can fix what he already broke. And I shouldnt say it, but once you feel like you have been betrayed, its hard to earn that trust back. To me, I felt like I got kicked in the stomach and trampled on while watching the final two seasons, and I guess my point is that im not sure a comic can fix Buffy or me...

Stop talking? Yeah ok...
This topic is just about to disappear over the horizon, so I suppose there is little reason to pursue it, but I am interested in JerrySt3161's question:
"Does the artist have a responsibility to the fans of a character? Or even fans of a show?"
My response would be absolutely not. No writer should ever alter their vision to try to satisfy the fans, for one reason: the fans would never agree (I like BtVS S6 more and more each time I see it). The reason most of us fell in love with Buffy was because of Joss' brilliant work, and I don't think most of us would be interested in having him edit or censor himself as he continues to tell his stories. Of course, in my opinion, nothing had ever been broken, so nothing every needs to be fixed; but I do admire new twists and surprises which fit in with what I felt I had already seen in the show.
Jerry,
I do feel your pain and I understand where you are coming from but let me ask you a quick question. Is there another series that you consider to be as great as BTVS? Will you ever become this emotionally invested in another set of characters? Is it even possible? If you answered no to these questions, like I did, what you are experiencing is the power of Joss Whedon.

I bet if you rolled every moment of BTVS that you didn't care for into a tight ball and then compared it to a ball made the same of all the moments that you could watch a million times over, the difference would be like comparing a pea to the moon.
Only Joss can give us the Moon. Obviously he had some help from SMG, ASH, NB and AH but you get where I'm going. Joss has Buffy screaming in his head again and that's something we can all cheer about. IMO.
"My response would be absolutely not. No writer should ever alter their vision to try to satisfy the fans, for one reason: the fans would never agree (I like BtVS S6 more and more each time I see it). The reason most of us fell in love with Buffy was because of Joss' brilliant work, and I don't think most of us would be interested in having him edit or censor himself as he continues to tell his stories. Of course, in my opinion, nothing had ever been broken, so nothing every needs to be fixed; but I do admire new twists and surprises which fit in with what I felt I had already seen in the show."

Believe it or not, I agree with this for the most part. I didnt fall in love with Buffy because of Joss, but thats beside the point. I do think that no artist is responsible to his fans, but I also think that when those fans dont like what happens, they voice their concern. Yet, there is a fine line too, one where if the artist accepts the praise for his work, then he must also accept the criticism. Its an interesting line no doubt...

Cheryl, to me nothing can compete with Ed or Sports Night, and heck, im not Joss Whedon's bitch, I am Aaron Sorkin's. Dont get me wrong, Buffy is in my top 4 (behind Ed, Sports Night, and The West Wing but ahead of The Simpsons), and honestly, Buffy, Giles, Willow, and Xander are pretty much my heroes. But if you havent seen Ed, those are characters that I love beyond any show or tale Ive ever seen, and the thing is this, I could never imagine a scenario where I disliked those characters. But I damn sure could with Buffy, and the bad thing is, I dont have to imagine...

I dont know,I tend to question things, Im a cynic that thinks the world is too pessimisstic (figure that one out), but I honestly wonder sometimes about this comic. Its almost like the empowerment spell, yeah on the surface its great, but below that there is definately something wrong...
The thing is, I love Buffy and I love that universe. But I can't help but feel that season seven of Buffy should have been good enough to stand on its own. It felt right; the character arcs had more or less reached a climax in season six, and all that was really needed was one fantastic capstone season to end the series, bring it "back to the beginning," and show the characters recovering from Season Six. And to lead up to the Every-Girl-a-Slayer spell, which doesn't make sense in conservation-of-energy terms (which is pretty important, really) but makes sense thematically in terms of Buffy's story. It's the perfect end to her character and to the arc of the series.

What we got--and I say this as someone who loves season six, besides the Magic Crack House, and who enjoyed season seven tremendously while it was on--was mostly fragments. Giles was cold and distant, Xander never fully lives up to how big he screwed up with Anya, Willow never fully realizes how much her own insecurities contributed to her downfall (well, especially not after Kennedy came about), and Anya was fairly neglected after "Selfless." The plot was also pretty nonsensical. It still works okay as a capping season, but had Joss maybe waited one more year to make Firefly--which is my favuorite show ever, by the way, so no disrespect there--and paid attention to his baby just about to grow up, then maybe it wouldn't be needed to step back and make a few corrections.

I think, in the end, I have seen, and will continue to see, Buffy as a great novel with a semi-botched (but still serviceable) last chapter. The comics are nice, and I don't doubt their canoninity, but thematically the series ended where it should have, just not necessarily as well as it should have. If the comics do end up working, not as a strict continuation of an already-finished complete story (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) but as a new story in and of itself, a sequel even (Buffy Summers, One Slayer Among Many), then I'm totally there. If it corrects some of the problems with season seven, I'm there too. But only if it does so while being its own entity, and without taking away from the sense of finality that season seven and "Chosen" left us with. Because really, the series is dead, kaput, gone, living only in our imaginations. For Joss, or us, to pretend otherwise and to treat this as more of the same and not something new and different would be a lie.

That said, I love Fray and Tales of the Slayers/Vampires and they feel like separate works to me. So I might be worrying about nothing.

On the other hand, I would totally love canon Angel to continue, any time, in any form, as part of the same work. Because really, Angel never ended, not really.

EDIT: Oh, right. As far as TGIQ? The idea that that girl was simply not Buffy actually makes the episode stronger thematically, too--the girl they were chasing after was an image of Buffy they've both built up since the last time they saw her, and so the idea that the girl they saw wasn't her at all is actually kinda brilliant. I almost have a feeling that Joss and Goddard and DeKnight never even intended that Buffy to be the real Buffy--the only thing that's important is that Angel and Spike think it is, and so that's what we saw. It comes back to Shadowkat's brilliant analysis. Rosencratz and Gildenstern are Undead.

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-12-22 11:25 ]
If I actually do have a problem wih season seven at all (and I'm not sure that I do) it would be that it failed to give enough time and responsibility to the people that we had witnessed growing up for he previous six seasons. As WilliamTheB says above, season six was the culmination of their growing pains. The year that put them all into the adult world and made them suffer for it. By the end of season six the Scoobies, for better or for worse, were all grown up.

The start of season seven even went a long way to showing that. Buffy and Dawn were getting on with life as a family, with Buffy seeming at ease in her parent/sister role. Xander was looking all flash in his new suit, new car and new job. Even Willow, for different reasons, was in a new and more mature place with how she looked at the world. Spike was probably in the newest place of all, in his own way. All good, up until the actual season arc kicked off and the potentials appeared.

Now don't assume that this is all about bashing the potentials because I am and always was a fan of the idea of season seven, slayer wannabes included. I think that some of the casting dropped the ball a little but overall I liked (or liked to dislike) the girls we got to know. Ever since I read the Spike/Dru novel Pretty Maids I had thought how interesting a concept it might be to have an enemy go after the future slayer line, so this was exactly what I'd been thinking about.

After they arrived though, the balance was entirely wrong, in my opinion. Willow, Dawn and Xander (Xander especially) got lost in the shuffle, to the point that even Andrew ended up getting more coverage than some. The problem with bringing in so many new characters in the last season, each with a voice you want to be heard, is that the time available to make them into fully rounded individuals is very limited. To properly service Robin, Andrew, Kennedy, Caleb, Rona, Vi and numerous others, whilst also finding time to not only give enough spotlight to your romantically linked leads (Buffy and Spike, by that point) and on top of that bring Giles and Faith back into the gang pretty much full time was bordering on impossible. It was just too much.

The fact is that I could not have done it any better and I won't even pretend that I could. Joss took a story idea that could have filled three seasons and stuffed it into one. Some developments were going to be lost. I just think that the only real pity was that after watching the original Scoobies grow up for all those years, we didn't get to see them enough in the final season. To tell that story in twenty two episodes though? I'm not sure how else it could have been done. Personally, with hindsight, I think the answer might have been to not have had Andrew return. Whilst I actually liked the character at the time (still do, really) in the grand season seven scheme I do think that he was an addition too much and that his role in the actual plot could have been filled by any number of other characters, leaving more story time for, say, Xander.

All that said, I've watched season seven maybe five times now, start to finish, and each time I enjoy it that little bit more, so why worry about what you can't change?
WilliamtheB....I think Joss said that Buffy's story will NEVER be over. I think the point of Chosen wasn't about an ending spot for Buffy but rather, a new beginning. A time of Buffy actually being allowed to have some sense of normalcy in her life. That sentiment shows more "back to the beginning" qualities, imo.
Truth be told, I love Angel, dearly, but as an extension of Buffy. It all comes back to Buffy for me as a fan. I don't really care what happens to Angel if Buffy's story is over. Spike, I care less than that about. Buffy is where it's at, Buffy and her whacky three followers. Buffy and her dreams as a girl. THE Girl. I fell for Joss's Buffy hook, line and sinker and honestly, that desire to see more of her just won't go away.

Hugs Jerry. What's coming will knock your socks off.
I didn't so much mean Buffy's (the character) story as the story of Buffy (the series). If the series were a novel, "Chosen" seems to be the natural ending point, with respect to the themes set out from season one--the ending is a new beginning for Buffy but an end for Buffy if that makes sense. It's a symmetry and structure thing.

For the record, I think that season seven is the weakest season since the first, but I do still like it. They were just trying to juggle too many balls, and things like, uh, the plot making sense got lost in a shuffle of other things, many of them genuinely good.

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-12-23 00:58 ]
While I think "Not Fade Away" was a better series finale than "Chosen" I actually found that post "Chosen" I haven't much wondered about what's going on with Buffy and the Scoobies. "Chosen" changed the rules, Buffy is no longer the one girl in a generation having to fight the forces of evil, she's now one of hundreds (?thousands). While I can see that there can be stories to tell about life post Sunnydale I really can't say I am particularly intrigued by the premise. As WtB said, Buffy ended and IMO it ended on a generally satisfying note as far as where the characters all were in their lives.

Now if we could get back to what was going on with those vampires in LA, now that's the story that I still have interest in.
As a series finale,I enjoyed,"Chosen" much more then,"Not Fade Away."At this point though,while I would love to see a resolution to the alley battle,I'm pretty happy with what IDW is doing.While they can't spell it out and it's not canon,Angel:The Curse,Angel:Old Friends,Spike:Asylum and Angel:Auld Lang Syn all take place post NFA.

I've always been more emotionally invested in Buffy and the Scoobies although I love Angel and the characters on his show.But at this point,I want to see Buffy and her cast's story continue.IDW has been putting out their Angel line for two years now so it feels like to me,we've already gotten Ats back in a way.Buffy,hasn't had a story told in three years,since the show ended.We are already getting new Angel The Series stories with IDW,I'm ready for some new Buffy The Vampire Slayer stories now.
I enjoyed season seven on the whole and thought it was a fitting bookend to the series, although I don't think it was perfect.

My biggest problem was with the way Buffy's character hwas portrayed, although it could be argued that I just didn't like the way she developed rather than she was being written out of character. I don't think the sense of isolation and superiority defined the character at all for the first six seasons so I was surprised to see it become such a big issue and I think "Chosen" successfully purged those feelings from Buffy.

I also thought Xander and Anya were given criminally reduced screen time, and I think the overall effect was that Mutant Enemy tried to throw too many ideas into the season and not all of them worked together- The First, the Potentials, the Turok-Han, the Seal of Danzalthar, Caleb... unfortunately the mythology became too unfocused. As much as I enjoyed Nathan Fillion's performance I don't think Caleb should have been introduced so late in the season because it became a case of each new villain or concept detracting slightly from the story.

I think that many of the main characters suffered as a result of this, Buffy and Spike were really the only two who received as much attention as the plot. Particularly in the later half of the season, almost every other major character was given only a few expository lines, from Xander and Anya to Giles and Dawn, and even Willow. I realise that it was difficult to balance so many parts of the show but I found it gauling that some of the very last episodes were so dense with exposition and kind of empty character wise, like Touched, when we could have had these characters given much more attention.

The season certainly started very strongly, though. Up until Conversations With Dead People every main character was actively involved in the plot and all given plenty to do, but unfortunately when the main villain arc of the season started a lot of that was sacrificed.

I can't wait to read season eight, though. Did Joss ever give any official word on Buffy's relationship with The Immortal? I definitely didn't think she would have jumped into another relationship, particularly with another morally ambiguous character, although I thought I had read one of the writers (possibly Joss) defend the idea. So to see it undermined here is kind of satisfying but puzzling.

I have to admit I wasn't a big fan of "The Girl In Question" for quite a few reasons, although I have only seen it a comparatively small number of times so I will have to watch it again to make a more fair judgement. But it again annoyed me immensely to see the writers take a whole episode to break away from the current status of the characters and the main arc of the season in order to do a light relief comedy episode which wasn't even particularly funny.

Episodes like that can really break the momentum and most good seasons will have at least three or four episodes building up to the season finale, such as the Pylea, Connor and Jasmine arcs (seasons two, three and four of Angel respectively) so having an episode which I felt was substandard so close to the series finale was jarring and disappointing, and I think the whole premise itself was quite tired and uninteresting, in sharp contrast with brilliant episodes such as Smile Time or Shells.

Again I think I can remember Joss saying that although they tried to get SMG to appear in TGIQ they did not want her to appear in "Not Fade Away" because they didn't want to define the show by Angel's relationship with Buffy. But by dedicating TGIQ to making Angel and Spike search for Buffy and make complete idiots of themselves whilst doing it seems to undermine the idea of Buffy not defining Angel as a character.

[ edited by Razor on 2006-12-31 00:01 ]

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