Buffy season 8 comic book writers announced!
Find out who's onboard from the old Mutant Enemy days (and the comic book world) and lots more in this Joss Whedon interview at the Wizard website. Oh and
an update from Joss on who else is writing.
A veritable who’s who of comic book writing talent that includes Brian K. Vaughan (Ex Machina), Brad Meltzer (Justice League of America) and Jeph Loeb (Onslaught Reborn), along with former “Buffy” TV writers Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Drew Greenberg and Steven DeKnight.
Wow.
Simon
| BtVS
| 09:15 CET
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122 comments total
| tags: joss post, dark horse, joss whedon, buffy
to be able to post comments.
havok | December 20, 09:30 CET
gossi | December 20, 09:31 CET
Alan | December 20, 09:56 CET
Neither Jeph Loeb nor BKV are surprises given Joss' relationship with them but they're still welcome, pleasant additions (and Brad Meltzer can also make with the story, 'Identity Crisis' was the wielder of much rulage and not the arbitrary 'let them eat cake, off with their heads' kind, nope, it was more along the lines of a benevolent dictatorship ;).
One question remains though: Where the hell is March ? It should definitely be here by now, I crossed my fingers and everything, but so far no sign.
(also, anyone notice that if they all get an arc each and Joss, as previously stated, does the first and last 4 issues then that adds up to nine 4 issue arcs of Buffy goodness ? Saaweeet !)
Saje | December 20, 09:57 CET
dreamlogic | December 20, 09:57 CET
bandaids | December 20, 10:06 CET
Charmuse | December 20, 10:15 CET
Anasazi | December 20, 10:25 CET
pat32082 | December 20, 10:26 CET
Really glad to see Jane Espenson in there along with Drew Goddard (thank you forever for the genius that is Selfless) and Drew Greenberg (fresh from his own version of genius at Dexter).
Glad Steven DeKinight gets a shot too, given that he was originally recruited for Buffy: the Animated series.
The only show writers missing that I would have liked to see are David Fury, Doug Petrie and Ben Edlund. Perhaps they will be for Season 9?
What? I can dream, can't I?
catalyst2 | December 20, 10:27 CET
What? I can dream, can't I?'
...or S6 of Angel which should start right after S8 of Buffy is finished, right?
I know, I'm soooo greedy. ;-)
[ edited by newcj on 2006-12-20 17:46 ]
newcj | December 20, 10:45 CET
Simon | December 20, 10:50 CET
I miss Doug Petrie though, 'cause I love him. But dream line-up, except the one...
bookworm | December 20, 10:53 CET
Rogue Slayer | December 20, 11:20 CET
Well this is just...neat!
Willowy | December 20, 11:22 CET
Kerec | December 20, 11:25 CET
punkinpuss | December 20, 11:33 CET
The rest of the lineup looks fantastic, obviously.
MattM | December 20, 11:38 CET
There's other peeps I'd love to have, but a lot of them are busy and I've got to make sure I've got the peeps already named orgabanized. It's very confusing, running a show entirely from one's computer.
More revelations to come...
joss | December 20, 11:40 CET
CaptainB | December 20, 11:46 CET
OzLady | December 20, 11:48 CET
Buffyfantic | December 20, 11:48 CET
Simon | December 20, 11:50 CET
Doug Petrie too! This just gets better and better. Everytime I hear more I realize that I am going to actually have to go to a comic store and buy a comic when it comes out and then repeat indefinitly. Arghhh. At first I figured without the actors I would not get into it very much, (Theater person here.) even though there was that nagging thought of "but it is Joss and BtVS together!" Then I saw the preview, laughed with glee at the whole immortal thing and knew I had to read it...but maybe when they are gathered together. Now I love the line-up of writers so much I don't think I can possibly wait. But ghaaa, going to the comic book store regularly and then waiting for the next issue? Ok, so maybe this *will* make me bite the bullet.
Joss you are truly evil...but in a good way.
newcj | December 20, 11:56 CET
the ninja report | December 20, 11:57 CET
Here's an idea,any chance that Amber Benson could do an arc?She's written for the Buffy comics before.
Buffyfantic | December 20, 12:07 CET
And, what's more, Petrie ! I believe I shall indulge in a w00t !
*ahem, gargles* doh, rae, me, soh ...
w00t !
(ta for the 'Ring of Fire' link too Simon)
Saje | December 20, 12:13 CET
palehorse | December 20, 12:18 CET
(Yes, was watching cartoons last night.)
Pointy | December 20, 12:35 CET
skeezycheeses | December 20, 12:36 CET
spikeylover | December 20, 12:38 CET
And a holiday gift that doesn't involve overcommercialized stuff stuff and more stuff.
Sunfire | December 20, 12:42 CET
embers | December 20, 12:46 CET
Nebula1400 | December 20, 12:49 CET
[ edited by moley75 on 2006-12-20 20:06 ]
moley75 | December 20, 12:53 CET
Yeah,I would love it if Amber got a chance to write an arc for this which is why I brought it up.
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 19:59 ]
Buffyfantic | December 20, 12:55 CET
Oh, well. The lineup kicks ass despite lacking the mustard man. Vaughan's issues are gonna rock.
rbt | December 20, 13:02 CET
Definitely, I was hoping for 1 or 2 Mutant Enemy writers and was hoping it would include Jane Espenson. I certainly didn't expect this many of the old Buffy gang to be coming back.
Plus outside of ME writers, one of my favorite comic book writers Brian K. Vaughan, who's just perfect for Buffy judging him the very Buffy-like Runaways series.
Also 9 writers doing 4 issue story arcs = 36 issues + Whedon's "4 issue season final" means possibly 40 issues!! Unless the 4 issue story arc doesn't hold, but still I imagine we are looking at 30-something issues instead of just 20-something issues. Unless things are wrapped up for "Season 8" and then continue on for a "Season 9"?
I'm a tradepaperback type guy, picking up collections instead of individual comic book issues, but I'm certainly going to have to start up a pull list and get these Buffy issues as they come out.
Matt_Fabb | December 20, 13:04 CET
Anusien | December 20, 13:25 CET
Very happy about Brian K. Vaughan jumping on. He was one of the few non-Mutant Enemy writers I was interested in seeing take a shot at the Buffyverse. Was hoping the rest would all be ME folks. Willing to give Loeb and Meltzer a try though (I wish they'd credited Loeb in the article with something other than "Onslaught Reborn" though. The original mega-crossover of that villain inspired me to quit reading Marvel superhero books at the time and I can't believe they're going back to him/it. Can't leave well enough alone).
They picked pretty much the best of the latter-seasons ME writers ('specially Goddard and DeKnight. Damn did DeKnight give us some of the best of Season 6. I feel Drew Greenberg had maybe a couple very good eps, but also had some serious mediocrity. He's done incredible on Dexter, though). And then of course Jane, would've been a crime to leave her out and deprive us of her quality.
Kris | December 20, 13:31 CET
Moscow Watcher | December 20, 13:44 CET
I'll admit,I'm a old school comic collector.I like having and reading individule issues as they come out.For me,there is just something fun about diving into my stack of comic books that come in each week.
Spit-balling some other comic book writers that would be cool to have do arcs are Peter David,Geoff Johns and Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa.Besides Peter David,maybe some of the other IDW Angelverse writers doing a Buffy arc would be interesting like Brian Lynch for example.
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 20:51 ]
Buffyfantic | December 20, 13:50 CET
I was hoping that Brian Lynch would be one of the writers. I think he's doing an outstanding job in Spike: Asylum and he'd do a wonderful job in the Buffy series. Who knows, maybe not all the writers were listed, just the better known ones to get a buzz going.
Either way, I'm very excited about this upcoming series. Yippee. Something to brighten the dulldrums of March.
MacGuffin | December 20, 13:50 CET
This news makes me want to dance a dance happier than Snoopy ever danced! Delightful and delovely.
Tonya J | December 20, 14:00 CET
Now just throw some decent Spike and Angel into the mix for her to 'play with' and I'd be content.
[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2006-12-20 21:03 ]
sueworld2003 | December 20, 14:01 CET
I'd be very pleased to see either of them make an appearance. Here's hoping that DH and IDW can work out a way to make this happen.
stuart | December 20, 14:03 CET
Or there will be in March. Which is typically also muddy.
barboo | December 20, 14:10 CET
The rest of the line-up is really great, and I am beyond happy to see Jane involved. Plus, Meltzer! My brain is getting meshuggabanized!
Dana5140 | December 20, 14:20 CET
luvspike | December 20, 14:31 CET
I'm so happy to have a Buffy-Jane Espenson intersection to look forward to in the New Year.
It's like getting a bunch o' tiny !kittens! for Christmas.
QuoterGal | December 20, 14:55 CET
Derf | December 20, 15:11 CET
SpikeBad | December 20, 15:15 CET
(Yes, was watching cartoons last night.)
Pointy | December 20, 19:35 CET "
As a non-cartoon person I kept finding myself combining Yul Brenner gathering the Magnificent Seven with Paul Newman gathering the con men in The Sting...
newcj | December 20, 15:25 CET
As if I wasn't in before...
crossoverman | December 20, 15:33 CET
Truthfully,in this season 8 series,I don't want Angel and Spike to have a major presence and hope Joss sticks with what he's been saying and only use them in a limited/minor capacity.Other then some mentions,dealing with plot points raised on Angel and flashbacks,I just don't think they belong in a story that takes place at the same time as Angel season 5 when we know already,exactly where they are and what they are doing during this period of continuity.I suspect Joss feels the same way given his comments here about how it has to be story driven.As well as all his interviews recently about this subject and how he would use them sparingly anyway even if they weren't at IDW.I agree with him,don't put them in there just to put them in.
Now if and when Joss moves past season 8 into a post BTVS/ATS Not Fade Away period,then I would love to see a big crossover with everybody.Not just only the vampires either but the surviors of Angel's team as well.As Joss said in one of his other interviews about post NFA and what happened in the alley," ''That's a story for another time, another place.''First he has to bring Buffy continuity up with Angel continuity,which I would assume is one of the purposes of this season 8 series.And in continuity,at this time both Angel and Spike are in L.A. and don't have any direct interaction with Buffy and the Scoobies other then Andrew in Damage and TGIQ.The only other things were the two phone calls.The one between Angel and Buffy mentioned in,Just Rewards and Angel and Giles in Shells.
I just saw this.Brian K.Vaughn joins the staff of Lost.
http://bkv.tv/pages/blog/2006/12/lost-putting-tv-back-in-bkvtv.html
He also talks about doing an arc for season 8 of Buffy.
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-20 22:49 ]
Buffyfantic | December 20, 15:36 CET
danregal | December 20, 15:43 CET
mifeng | December 20, 16:06 CET
jclemens | December 20, 16:09 CET
Simon | December 20, 16:15 CET
danregal | December 20, 16:24 CET
2. Buffyfantic had a GREAT idea; Put everyone in the 'Verse in a comic and my 2 cents added...Call the comic, "The 'Verse"
3. My vote for last minte fill-in creative team: Orson Scott Card writes and Richard Corben draws. As long as this is turning into a major event with a superstar team of industry (and Verse) giants...Can you pull a few strings Joss? I'd really love to see Corben's take on Willow.
alexreager | December 20, 16:24 CET
Razor | December 20, 16:40 CET
*excited*
lexigeek | December 20, 16:55 CET
I love that Jane, Doug, and Goddard all three are in, because I love their writing a lot, (the three of them + Joss we're my wish list), and it's very nice to see the other Drew and Steven DeKnight are in, too. I don't really know the comic writers, but from what I've read they must be great too. Awesome list!
the Groosalugg | December 20, 16:58 CET
Ditto.
Now Joss must start inviting some artist friends for alternate covers.
I'll suffer economically, but my collector side is starting to crave for some.
Numfar PTB | December 20, 17:11 CET
danregal | December 20, 17:16 CET
Man,that would be perfect for after the season 8 series and what I would love to see happen.A big canon Dark Horse/IDW inter-company crossover event set after NFA,revealing what happened in the alley and featuring all the surviving characters from both shows.With Joss overseeing it like season 8 and possibly writing some or all of it as well.
They are some of the best in the medium.Plus they have great credits outside comics.Jeph Loeb wrote the films,Commando,Teen Wolf and Teen Wolf Too.He was a producer and writer for Smallville durning seasons 2-4.He was a producer on Lost for a season.He's currently a producer and writer on Heroes.He was going to be the showrunner of Buffy The Animated Series as well when that project was alive.
Brad Meltzer is a best selling novelist.He was also the co-creator of the short lived series,Jack & Bobby.We got the news that Brian K.Vaughn is going to be working on Lost.
Hey,here's an idea,what about Rob Thomas of Veronica Mars doing an arc?Or at least draw him into a cameo as a character in an issue since Joss appeared on his show in a small role for an episode.lol
Buffyfantic | December 20, 17:43 CET
Lets face it, I'd rather have more Spike and Angel interaction then another boat load of flaming potentials cluttering up the place as they did in season seven.
God weren't they a waste of space......
sueworld2003 | December 20, 17:52 CET
No one's missing Marti?
crossoverman | December 20, 18:01 CET
And all those realists talking about co-writers, do you mind ? You're pissing all over my 9 arc wishful thinking ;).
(there're a whole bunch of folk i'd like to see on there even after we run out of 'verse writers e.g. Richard Morgan did a couple of nice 'Black Widow' minis but we'd need infinite arcs to fit them all in. So I propose infinite additional seasons in comic form. Joss, don't see it as an impossible problem, see it as an impossible opportunity ;)
Saje | December 20, 18:15 CET
Caroline | December 20, 18:15 CET
So, yeah, I'd like to see Marti in there, but yes! I'm a fan of all seasons, including the controversial Season 6, myself, and I like most of her writing from other seasons - especially "The Wish" from Season Three. I'm forever grateful for the existence of "Willow Vamp."
QuoterGal | December 20, 18:20 CET
I miss Marti but we don't really associate her with Buffy comics. So her name did not spring to mind.
Simon | December 20, 18:27 CET
cabri | December 20, 18:30 CET
oh, this is so the definition of me right now
moley75 | December 20, 18:42 CET
jlp | December 20, 18:59 CET
What exactly is Edlund doing now?
flightofserenity | December 20, 19:05 CET
Harmalicious | December 20, 19:07 CET
So fess up. For which of us is it still just the next day?
[ edited by Lioness on 2006-12-21 02:13 ]
Lioness | December 20, 19:10 CET
billz | December 20, 19:35 CET
Better yet, is there any way people can get standing orders for each issue? Way back in the day, you could subscribe to DC for your favorite comics. Maybe Dark Horse can do the same.
Personally, I hope they become so impressive, SMG, David Boreanaz and the gang actually volunteer to make the comics into movies. Hey, I can dream, can't i?
impalergeneral | December 20, 20:14 CET
About these other writers...I love the choices, especially DP. He wrote one of my all time Buffy eps. "Enemies". Man that was brilliant. I think he may very well be my second favorite Buffy writer with Joss in the lead. Jane is great because she does comedy so well.
The main answer I want from these comics...what are my favorite four people in the verse doing now? Why wasn't Buffy there at the end of NFA with her army of slayers? Why in the world did Giles refuse to help Fred? I think maybe I have quite a few questions after thinking about it. More than anything I can not wait to see what Joss has in store for Buffy.
Angel and Spike may be used? That's great, although I agree it might be difficult because this is happening during the ATS season 5 timeline. I have more of an interest to see these teams pair back up after season 8 of Buffy. THAT would be a great time.
cheryl | December 20, 20:54 CET
[ edited by cityof on 2006-12-21 04:52 ]
cityof | December 20, 21:50 CET
Charmuse | December 20, 23:16 CET
Ameer | December 20, 23:23 CET
of course, building a relationship with your local comics shop is by far the better way to go.
stuart | December 21, 01:15 CET
That's what I've always said. ;-)
...And, wow. This is just so amazing. I am so very glad to see some of the best from the ME days, especially Jane. How wonderful she is!
As far as the comics writers go, the only one I'm not so enthused with is Jeph Loeb. I honestly haven't cared for anything that's he done other than that season of Lost. Still...this is Buffy, and Buffy has never (no, not even during S6, and especially not S7, which was one of the strongest) been anything less than great.
Less than three months to go!
UnpluggedCrazy | December 21, 02:55 CET
My issues are already ordered (I mention it everytime I am in the shop) now I really can't wait to get my hands on them.
The Do That Girl | December 21, 03:59 CET
This German online shop sells American comics in Germany, shipping within Germany is 2.50€, international shipping is the actual postage fee (according to their website). Should be cheaper for you than ordering from the States. (I haven't seen Buffy listet there yet, but that's where I bought my Serenity comics, I'm sure they'll sell Buffy as well.)
[ edited by Ariane on 2006-12-21 11:22 ]
Ariane | December 21, 04:20 CET
Err, no. Not from where I'm standing.
sueworld2003 | December 21, 06:02 CET
You could try one of these:
- Lambiek
- Wonderland
But there's actually quite a lot of comicshops in Amsterdam. Any shop that sells single issues can order the comics for you if they aren't ordering them already. Just ask for 'em. The title's in the newest issue of Previews (the "magazine" most comic shops order these comics from), so it should be easy enough to find.
GVH | December 21, 07:47 CET
cheryl | December 21, 07:49 CET
I will miss Marti though. If I'm not mistaken, this is the woman that wrote the animal cookie bit people. That will be one of my favorites forever!
Hippo Dignity!
I mock you with my monkey pants! (i own monkey pants for just this reason :D )
Addicted Eve | December 21, 08:15 CET
As for the Angel and Spike issue, as long as this is going to be set at the same time as Angel season five then obviously there can be no present day guest spots of our two favourite vamps, except maybe in a story towards the end of the year when we see two black coated figures brawling at the back of a night club as Buffy is leaving, hehe.
Even so, I'm hoping that the events of Angel's fifth season are mentioned. In particular I want to see what happens when Andrew brings Dana home. Should be interesting.
D-Monik | December 21, 10:11 CET
My user name explains it all. Obviously, I love Spike. I have to say I do find it ironic that Fury is now considered the pro-Spike guy... Hey, YAY if he is.
I do agree that I don't see why we would expect much of Spike or Angel, simply because they were both in LA,and this is suppose to be seen as canon.
[ edited by spikeylover on 2006-12-21 17:16 ]
spikeylover | December 21, 10:15 CET
For the Netherlands, there's also www.comicasa.nl for mail orders.
Retailer orders for #1 are due on January 13th, so if you're planning on preordering, I'd recommend doing it before then so the retailers can see how much interest there really is. :-)
And if the monkey pants make an appearance in the comic, I'll swoon. :-)
Niels van Eekelen | December 21, 10:17 CET
Patting poor, sweet, delusional Cheryl on the head.
Buffyfanatic is right though. If this comic is set in the time period of Angel Season 5, there is no way for Spike and Angel to be in it. Like he (she?) said we know where they are and what they are doing. Still, its nice that perhaps they will at least be mentioned.
Didn't Seth Green improvise the monkey pants?
And David Fury is a great writer and a very fine and funny human being but I never would call him "Spike Happy."
No way.
The only writer I would consider with me on the Spike love is Jane. The rest of them tolerate him. They still write him great for the most part, but no love there. JMO.
Xane | December 21, 12:36 CET
I know that part of it was improvised but not all. I think he improvised the part about the monkey being french. but now just to be sure I'll have to watch that ep with the commentary again. But either way. I LOVE SETH TOO!
Addicted Eve | December 21, 14:31 CET
So much for that theory. Made so much sense too.
D-Monik | December 21, 14:38 CET
"Please no Fury - he was too Spike happy."
cityof | December 21, 04:50 CET
I am still getting used to fandom, much less BtVS fandom so this always makes me go "huh?" All the writers wrote all the characters. To me it does not make a lot of sense to judge them as writers by how many of their episodes delt with a specific character. It was and still is Joss's show. If it is time to have a story dealing with a particular character, then it is time and someone will be tapped to write it. I don't really understand what that has to do with...anything. The question for me is simply, "Did they do a good job?" which in the case of the BtVS writers I consistently answer "Yes!"
"And David Fury is a great writer and a very fine and funny human being but I never would call him "Spike Happy."
No way.
The only writer I would consider with me on the Spike love is Jane. The rest of them tolerate him. They still write him great for the most part, but no love there. JMO."
Xane | December 21, 19:36 CET
Admittedly one of the joys of JE's episodes is the love for pretty much all the characters that she splashes all over the screen. Over and over again, however, I have heard/read writers say how "magic" JM was as Spike, or how much the character brought to the show. I have read JM quoted as saying that the reasons he had such memorable scenes was that the writers always seemed write more than was really needed for Spike, but that it would usually get cut down to the best parts. In Joss's commentaries there are various affectionate comments about "our boy" when referring to Spike. All in all it seems like there was a lot of Spike love, while there was also disagreement on the nature of the character. To me that seems like a healthy combination to keep the writing of the character sharp and complex.
"You mean to say that all monkeys are not really french?
So much for that theory. Made so much sense too."
Have faith. Just because it was not in the script, that does not mean it isn't true. ;-)
newcj | December 21, 14:50 CET
Regarding what you said about the writers various opinions on Spike. I think you are hitting the nail on the head when you say that it wasn't that they didn't like to write for Spike, rather that they often had different ideas about how he should be written. I'd imagine that Spike would be quite a difficult character to get a grip on, especially during seasons four and five where he had a real duality of nature that made him extremely difficult to judge, even from the viewers point of view. For a writer, to know exactly where to place Spike on the good/evil scale at that point in the story must have been very difficult indeed.
D-Monik | December 21, 15:00 CET
Spoilers for anyone who missed those preview pages a week ago.
And we now know,that wasn't even Buffy.lol
The Immortal | December 21, 17:11 CET
Pretty sure it will be.Dark Horse Editor Scott Allie confirmed in the most recent Buffy magazine that they would be addressing the issues raised during the last season of Angel with Buffy and the gang but not in a way that fans are expecting.He warned to expect to be surprised.I think given the recent spoilers about Buffy,The Immortal and stuff,we are already seeing Allie's warnings coming to pass.So yeah,I expect Anngel and Spike mentions,some flashbacks or things of that nature.Andrew describing things that happened in Damage and TGIQ with panels of the two vamps appearing as he talks.Seeing the Giles side of the conversation in Shells and such.But really that's all there should be given the timeline and I think that is one of the reasons Joss has said he would only use them sparingly anyway even if they were owned by Dark Horse.
My user name explains it all. Obviously, I love Spike. I have to say I do find it ironic that Fury is now considered the pro-Spike guy... Hey, YAY if he is.
I never thought he was anti Spike.I don't think any of the writers are anti any of the characters.They have favorites,they have opinions on things on the show that not all fans agree with and even the writers themselves don't all agree with each other.Fans have there preferences for various reasons as well.Some fans don't like a writers opinion on certain storylines.Some fans don't like the way a writer wrote a certain character etc etc.But I don't thnk any of the writers were anti characters.
For the record,I would love David Fury to write an arc.
Buffyfantic | December 21, 15:26 CET
Huh? We do? When did this happen? Usually I'd avoid spoiler details but this I need to know.
D-Monik | December 21, 15:38 CET
Huh? We do? When did this happen? Usually I'd avoid spoiler details but this I need to know.
The Immortal | December 21, 22:38 CET
Spoiler Warning again
Preview pages came out last week with a Joss interview at T.V. Guide Online.They reveal that Buffy was never dating The Immortal and it was a body double we saw in TGIQ.Her friends thought she would be a target so they set up two body doubles to draw attention away from her real locations.One of the stand ins was the one we saw partying in Rome.It was all Andrew's idea to have the Rome double,date The Immortal because he researched him and thought it would be funny.
So Buffy was never dating The Immortal.Sounds like she's never even met the guy.Buffy wasn't even in Rome during TGIQ and Andrew was lying to Angel and Spike in the episode.
Here's the link to the thread.
http://whedonesque.com/comments/11979
Here's the dialog from the preview pages that annagranfors transcribed.
The thing about changing the world...
Once you do it, the world's all different.
page 2-3:
Everybody calls me "ma'am" these days.
page 4:
There used to be one slayer in all the world.
Eighteen hundred now, that we've counted. Almost five hundred working with (Dr.[?]) in ten separate (?).
There's even three of me.
page 5:
"Field's (?) and we're on the roof."
"Access should be right in front of you."
"Leah, open her up."
The guys figured I was a target...set up two other slayers to be me. One's underground. Literally.
One's in Rome partying very publicly--and supposedly dating some guy called "The Immortal".
That part was Andrew's idea. He did research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason.
"Can't see a thing, ma'am."
"Can SMELL a thing, though."
Here at Command Central, not so much with the hilarious.
More with the "what the hell am I doing?"
"What th' hell is she doing?"
It's not all that different, though.
Still got my demons.
And I still got my watcher.
Basically,Joss just wiped away TGIQ which I personally love.lol
A link to the pages are in that thread so you can see them yourself as well..
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2006-12-22 02:07 ]
Buffyfantic | December 21, 16:19 CET
Wherever the power lay, all three of these magnificent people have made some pro Buffy movie comments in the past. If you're interested, email me and I will send them to you. It's really quite exciting. The possibilities are endless. :)
Count me as one of those die hard fans that still crave Buffy Big Screen the Jossian way. Spiderman, Superman, The Hulk or Buffy and Angel? No contest. Joss has ruined me for what I need to see in a Hero.
cheryl | December 21, 16:30 CET
Oh, I love Heroes too. Especially Hiro. ;0)
Yeah, I love me my heroes off the shows. They are all heroes actually. I still say Xander is probably the bravest, what with having no special powers or anything. But you just can't beat two souled vampire Champions waving around a sword in the air, if you ask me. They can buckle my swash any day. ;0) Damn, but I want DB and JM to work together again. The perfect acting chemistry of the shows imo.
lynnie | December 21, 17:14 CET
Stupid Immortal! YAY!!!!!
This fangirl is pleased. Very very pleased. This fangirl now has to wait until March. TOOOORTURE.
BrightShiner | December 21, 18:28 CET
anindoorkitty | December 21, 19:46 CET
HEY!!!
Oh, wait. You mean that other The Immortal. That's okay then... ;)
And thanks for that, Buffyfantic. Much appreciated. :)
D-Monik | December 21, 19:59 CET
But I don't feel that that is really true, that episode is still about Angel and Spike focusing on their own priorities and moving on with their own lives. I actually feel that this new twist (in the up-coming comic book) fits perfectly because I thought that the blonde we glimpsed dancing looked nothing like Buffy, and she didn't dance with Buffy's rhythm (her hair didn't bounce like Buffy's hair), so I think that this explains all that to my satisfaction.
embers | December 21, 20:48 CET
crossoverman | December 21, 21:04 CET
I was reading the other day on "another site" (TWOP--lol, yes I still love that place) that there are many who dont consider this to be canon, no matter how many times Joss says that it is, and it got me to thinking (which if you are familiar with ANY of my posts, you know thats a bad thing). Does the artist have a responsibility to the fans of a character? Or even fans of a show? I love Xander, but his marginalization will always be one of my worst things ever. In Buffy's case, you really do see alot of anti-Buffy opinions because of the actions of seasons 6 and 7 and TGIQ, and though he may go back and try to fix it, im not sure thats enough. Once a person has been dragged through the mud, no matter how much you scrub there are times when you are never going to get it all off, you know what I mean?
I like the idea that Joss is going to go back and try to fix these things, but I dont know im just not that excited about this anymore because im not sure he can fix what he already broke. And I shouldnt say it, but once you feel like you have been betrayed, its hard to earn that trust back. To me, I felt like I got kicked in the stomach and trampled on while watching the final two seasons, and I guess my point is that im not sure a comic can fix Buffy or me...
Stop talking? Yeah ok...
jerryst3161 | December 21, 22:53 CET
"Does the artist have a responsibility to the fans of a character? Or even fans of a show?"
My response would be absolutely not. No writer should ever alter their vision to try to satisfy the fans, for one reason: the fans would never agree (I like BtVS S6 more and more each time I see it). The reason most of us fell in love with Buffy was because of Joss' brilliant work, and I don't think most of us would be interested in having him edit or censor himself as he continues to tell his stories. Of course, in my opinion, nothing had ever been broken, so nothing every needs to be fixed; but I do admire new twists and surprises which fit in with what I felt I had already seen in the show.
embers | December 21, 23:32 CET
I do feel your pain and I understand where you are coming from but let me ask you a quick question. Is there another series that you consider to be as great as BTVS? Will you ever become this emotionally invested in another set of characters? Is it even possible? If you answered no to these questions, like I did, what you are experiencing is the power of Joss Whedon.
I bet if you rolled every moment of BTVS that you didn't care for into a tight ball and then compared it to a ball made the same of all the moments that you could watch a million times over, the difference would be like comparing a pea to the moon.
Only Joss can give us the Moon. Obviously he had some help from SMG, ASH, NB and AH but you get where I'm going. Joss has Buffy screaming in his head again and that's something we can all cheer about. IMO.
cheryl | December 21, 23:37 CET
Believe it or not, I agree with this for the most part. I didnt fall in love with Buffy because of Joss, but thats beside the point. I do think that no artist is responsible to his fans, but I also think that when those fans dont like what happens, they voice their concern. Yet, there is a fine line too, one where if the artist accepts the praise for his work, then he must also accept the criticism. Its an interesting line no doubt...
Cheryl, to me nothing can compete with Ed or Sports Night, and heck, im not Joss Whedon's bitch, I am Aaron Sorkin's. Dont get me wrong, Buffy is in my top 4 (behind Ed, Sports Night, and The West Wing but ahead of The Simpsons), and honestly, Buffy, Giles, Willow, and Xander are pretty much my heroes. But if you havent seen Ed, those are characters that I love beyond any show or tale Ive ever seen, and the thing is this, I could never imagine a scenario where I disliked those characters. But I damn sure could with Buffy, and the bad thing is, I dont have to imagine...
I dont know,I tend to question things, Im a cynic that thinks the world is too pessimisstic (figure that one out), but I honestly wonder sometimes about this comic. Its almost like the empowerment spell, yeah on the surface its great, but below that there is definately something wrong...
jerryst3161 | December 22, 00:34 CET
What we got--and I say this as someone who loves season six, besides the Magic Crack House, and who enjoyed season seven tremendously while it was on--was mostly fragments. Giles was cold and distant, Xander never fully lives up to how big he screwed up with Anya, Willow never fully realizes how much her own insecurities contributed to her downfall (well, especially not after Kennedy came about), and Anya was fairly neglected after "Selfless." The plot was also pretty nonsensical. It still works okay as a capping season, but had Joss maybe waited one more year to make Firefly--which is my favuorite show ever, by the way, so no disrespect there--and paid attention to his baby just about to grow up, then maybe it wouldn't be needed to step back and make a few corrections.
I think, in the end, I have seen, and will continue to see, Buffy as a great novel with a semi-botched (but still serviceable) last chapter. The comics are nice, and I don't doubt their canoninity, but thematically the series ended where it should have, just not necessarily as well as it should have. If the comics do end up working, not as a strict continuation of an already-finished complete story (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) but as a new story in and of itself, a sequel even (Buffy Summers, One Slayer Among Many), then I'm totally there. If it corrects some of the problems with season seven, I'm there too. But only if it does so while being its own entity, and without taking away from the sense of finality that season seven and "Chosen" left us with. Because really, the series is dead, kaput, gone, living only in our imaginations. For Joss, or us, to pretend otherwise and to treat this as more of the same and not something new and different would be a lie.
That said, I love Fray and Tales of the Slayers/Vampires and they feel like separate works to me. So I might be worrying about nothing.
On the other hand, I would totally love canon Angel to continue, any time, in any form, as part of the same work. Because really, Angel never ended, not really.
EDIT: Oh, right. As far as TGIQ? The idea that that girl was simply not Buffy actually makes the episode stronger thematically, too--the girl they were chasing after was an image of Buffy they've both built up since the last time they saw her, and so the idea that the girl they saw wasn't her at all is actually kinda brilliant. I almost have a feeling that Joss and Goddard and DeKnight never even intended that Buffy to be the real Buffy--the only thing that's important is that Angel and Spike think it is, and so that's what we saw. It comes back to Shadowkat's brilliant analysis. Rosencratz and Gildenstern are Undead.
[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-12-22 11:25 ]
WilliamTheB | December 22, 03:42 CET
The start of season seven even went a long way to showing that. Buffy and Dawn were getting on with life as a family, with Buffy seeming at ease in her parent/sister role. Xander was looking all flash in his new suit, new car and new job. Even Willow, for different reasons, was in a new and more mature place with how she looked at the world. Spike was probably in the newest place of all, in his own way. All good, up until the actual season arc kicked off and the potentials appeared.
Now don't assume that this is all about bashing the potentials because I am and always was a fan of the idea of season seven, slayer wannabes included. I think that some of the casting dropped the ball a little but overall I liked (or liked to dislike) the girls we got to know. Ever since I read the Spike/Dru novel Pretty Maids I had thought how interesting a concept it might be to have an enemy go after the future slayer line, so this was exactly what I'd been thinking about.
After they arrived though, the balance was entirely wrong, in my opinion. Willow, Dawn and Xander (Xander especially) got lost in the shuffle, to the point that even Andrew ended up getting more coverage than some. The problem with bringing in so many new characters in the last season, each with a voice you want to be heard, is that the time available to make them into fully rounded individuals is very limited. To properly service Robin, Andrew, Kennedy, Caleb, Rona, Vi and numerous others, whilst also finding time to not only give enough spotlight to your romantically linked leads (Buffy and Spike, by that point) and on top of that bring Giles and Faith back into the gang pretty much full time was bordering on impossible. It was just too much.
The fact is that I could not have done it any better and I won't even pretend that I could. Joss took a story idea that could have filled three seasons and stuffed it into one. Some developments were going to be lost. I just think that the only real pity was that after watching the original Scoobies grow up for all those years, we didn't get to see them enough in the final season. To tell that story in twenty two episodes though? I'm not sure how else it could have been done. Personally, with hindsight, I think the answer might have been to not have had Andrew return. Whilst I actually liked the character at the time (still do, really) in the grand season seven scheme I do think that he was an addition too much and that his role in the actual plot could have been filled by any number of other characters, leaving more story time for, say, Xander.
All that said, I've watched season seven maybe five times now, start to finish, and each time I enjoy it that little bit more, so why worry about what you can't change?
D-Monik | December 22, 05:36 CET
Truth be told, I love Angel, dearly, but as an extension of Buffy. It all comes back to Buffy for me as a fan. I don't really care what happens to Angel if Buffy's story is over. Spike, I care less than that about. Buffy is where it's at, Buffy and her whacky three followers. Buffy and her dreams as a girl. THE Girl. I fell for Joss's Buffy hook, line and sinker and honestly, that desire to see more of her just won't go away.
Hugs Jerry. What's coming will knock your socks off.
cheryl | December 22, 08:10 CET
For the record, I think that season seven is the weakest season since the first, but I do still like it. They were just trying to juggle too many balls, and things like, uh, the plot making sense got lost in a shuffle of other things, many of them genuinely good.
[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2006-12-23 00:58 ]
WilliamTheB | December 22, 17:55 CET
Now if we could get back to what was going on with those vampires in LA, now that's the story that I still have interest in.
helcat | December 22, 18:51 CET
I've always been more emotionally invested in Buffy and the Scoobies although I love Angel and the characters on his show.But at this point,I want to see Buffy and her cast's story continue.IDW has been putting out their Angel line for two years now so it feels like to me,we've already gotten Ats back in a way.Buffy,hasn't had a story told in three years,since the show ended.We are already getting new Angel The Series stories with IDW,I'm ready for some new Buffy The Vampire Slayer stories now.
Buffyfantic | December 23, 07:01 CET
My biggest problem was with the way Buffy's character hwas portrayed, although it could be argued that I just didn't like the way she developed rather than she was being written out of character. I don't think the sense of isolation and superiority defined the character at all for the first six seasons so I was surprised to see it become such a big issue and I think "Chosen" successfully purged those feelings from Buffy.
I also thought Xander and Anya were given criminally reduced screen time, and I think the overall effect was that Mutant Enemy tried to throw too many ideas into the season and not all of them worked together- The First, the Potentials, the Turok-Han, the Seal of Danzalthar, Caleb... unfortunately the mythology became too unfocused. As much as I enjoyed Nathan Fillion's performance I don't think Caleb should have been introduced so late in the season because it became a case of each new villain or concept detracting slightly from the story.
I think that many of the main characters suffered as a result of this, Buffy and Spike were really the only two who received as much attention as the plot. Particularly in the later half of the season, almost every other major character was given only a few expository lines, from Xander and Anya to Giles and Dawn, and even Willow. I realise that it was difficult to balance so many parts of the show but I found it gauling that some of the very last episodes were so dense with exposition and kind of empty character wise, like Touched, when we could have had these characters given much more attention.
The season certainly started very strongly, though. Up until Conversations With Dead People every main character was actively involved in the plot and all given plenty to do, but unfortunately when the main villain arc of the season started a lot of that was sacrificed.
I can't wait to read season eight, though. Did Joss ever give any official word on Buffy's relationship with The Immortal? I definitely didn't think she would have jumped into another relationship, particularly with another morally ambiguous character, although I thought I had read one of the writers (possibly Joss) defend the idea. So to see it undermined here is kind of satisfying but puzzling.
I have to admit I wasn't a big fan of "The Girl In Question" for quite a few reasons, although I have only seen it a comparatively small number of times so I will have to watch it again to make a more fair judgement. But it again annoyed me immensely to see the writers take a whole episode to break away from the current status of the characters and the main arc of the season in order to do a light relief comedy episode which wasn't even particularly funny.
Episodes like that can really break the momentum and most good seasons will have at least three or four episodes building up to the season finale, such as the Pylea, Connor and Jasmine arcs (seasons two, three and four of Angel respectively) so having an episode which I felt was substandard so close to the series finale was jarring and disappointing, and I think the whole premise itself was quite tired and uninteresting, in sharp contrast with brilliant episodes such as Smile Time or Shells.
Again I think I can remember Joss saying that although they tried to get SMG to appear in TGIQ they did not want her to appear in "Not Fade Away" because they didn't want to define the show by Angel's relationship with Buffy. But by dedicating TGIQ to making Angel and Spike search for Buffy and make complete idiots of themselves whilst doing it seems to undermine the idea of Buffy not defining Angel as a character.
[ edited by Razor on 2006-12-31 00:01 ]
Razor | December 30, 16:17 CET