Whedonesque : Comments on 12139 : (SPOILER) Astonishingly Lost in Space.

Anyone who know Joss knows the answer to this question- shall we say, KP?

The answer is... WASH! Wait, wrong franchise. It'll be interesting and most likely heart-wrenching either way.

All I know is he best not touch Kitty... or Hank. Everyone else is fair game, IMO.

They've posted odds, but aren't taking bets. How peculiar!

If Joss kills Kitty (while there is the Dead is Dead policy), I'm never watching/reading anything he works on ever again.

It's nice to see that Joss is optimistic that Xavier is returning from space, since he's usually winning the other deadpool. But it does annoy me that any of these big arcs have to have any overhyped death and all focus is on speculation on dying or who's not coming back.

If Hisako is with them, then I'd think she's the one who will die. Lockheed dying/not coming back would probably be easily retconned by saying that was imposter Lockheed, so I'm not worried about that. I can't see Joss being allowed to kill of Scott, Emma or Logan. Peter dying again turns him into the new Jean since he dies so often, but he might have to stay behind for some reason. Hank staying behind might be an option, but the biggest emotional impact would be killing Kitty and that has me worried sick.

FaithFan | December 28, 21:11 CET

And that, FF, is exactly why I noted that it will happen that way.

Dana5140 | December 28, 21:18 CET

For some reason, I really don't think it's gonna be Colossus. My money's on Beast (truly tragic) and maybe Cyclops (if so, it looks like he'll go out with a bang). But I don't want anybody to leave! Especially Hisako. Don't touch Hisako! That's all. Oh, and this is my first post (yay for me) :)

Nicanor | December 28, 21:35 CET

Also, I really don't think that he's gonna kill Kitty. I just don't. It's not like he can undo it, like he can with his own chars.

Nicanor | December 28, 21:43 CET

I have not been reading AXM because I'm not a comic book person, (I have no doubt I will read them at some point when the story is complete because...well...it is Joss, after all.) but from what you are saying, Faithfan, if I were you, I would read/watch everything of Joss's before you read this. In fact maybe you should just put off reading this for a decade or two. That would keep you from breaking a rule you have now set for yourself, but keep you from missing the rest of Joss's career...just in case. ;-)

Isn't Kitty his own favorite? Wouldn't that be out of the question, like killing Buffy? Oh, wait...like killing Willow?

newcj | December 28, 21:54 CET

It's never been stated for a fact that "not coming back" means dying, has it?

Because if Kitty Pryde were to remain out in space--accompanied by her loyal (I don't care what we're being led to think! he's loyal!) space dragon, of course--she'd be perfectly placed to star in the S.W.O.R.D. series Joss is so eager to write.

'Kitty Pryde, Agent of SW.O.R.D.' Hey, why not? We've already had an 'Kitty Pryde, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.' miniseries.

[ edited by Telltale on 2006-12-28 21:19 ]

Niels | December 28, 23:17 CET

I think Blindfold meant that Ord won't come back. No big deal.
Or maybe she ment Nova.

urkonn | December 29, 00:39 CET

Blindfold was responding to what Julian said, "The X-Men? Hey, they'll be back" and she replied, "Not all of them". You'd kinda think she was referring to the X-Men, since I doubt Julian would care if Ord, Danger, Brand or any of the SWORD guys were coming back.

It doesn't mean they'll die, but the Wizard article is hyping a death, like always. Marvel released a posted back in November for Unstoppable with the motto "Die Trying". That sparked all of the someone-will-die discussion. A lot of writers like to go out with a bang and kill off a major character. And Marvel loves hyping deaths. It seems like every big arc has to be promoted with a list of characters who will be possibly dying.

Kitty's death would resonate the most - since she had quit the X-Men and was talked into rejoining by Scott & Emma. After everything that's gone wrong while they've been running the school, that could be the last straw for a lot of the X-Men. Beast's death probably wouldn't have the same impact, but they would loose his tech and medical abilities.

Blindfold probably would have considered Hisako to be one of the X-Men. It's possible SWORD has the wrong armored mutant fingered as the destroyer of the Breakworld, and it's really Hisako possessed by Nova. I'd be nice if Hisako stuck around, but if someone has to die...

FaithFan | December 29, 01:57 CET

I say Scott, Emma and Logan are off the table. If he could kill one of them, it would be Scott, though.

However, I'm almost certain - because this is Joss - it's going to be either Peter or Kitty. Either of these would make a great story. Bringing Peter back, just to kill him off again - this has a Jossian kind of logic to it. As he says in the article, the reveal of Colossus was one of his favourite moments ever - a great set up to take him away.

And yet, this is the man who killed off Buffy. Twice.

And Buffy is Kitty. Kitty, Buffy.

So if he's not going to torture her with the death of her lover...

crossoverman | December 29, 02:54 CET

Many spoilers in this post:

This is the man who killed Tara. And Anya. And Joyce. And Jennie. And Wesley. And Fred. And Cordy. And Spike, a few times. And Buffy, twice. And Motormouth. And Wash. And Book. He kills whomever ratchets up the emotion the most- ergo, Kitty here. Dollars to donuts, that is. :-)

Dana5140 | December 29, 05:19 CET

A lot of writers like to go out with a bang and kill off a major character. And Marvel loves hyping deaths. It seems like every big arc has to be promoted with a list of characters who will be possibly dying.

Hey, at least it's not 'Batman: A Death in the Family,' right? ;-)

Niels | December 29, 05:28 CET

He kills whomever ratchets up the emotion the most- ergo, Kitty here.

Joss Whedon killing off Kitty Pryde would be astonishing ;-)

Hey, at least it's not 'Batman: A Death in the Family,' right? ;-)

Yes, thank god there's no hotline to call - Vote for a X-Man's Death!!

crossoverman | December 29, 06:51 CET

If fans got to vote, at least we'd know Kitty would be safe. Emma would win by a landslide.

FaithFan | December 29, 07:28 CET

This is the man who killed Tara. And Anya. And Joyce. And Jennie. And Wesley. And Fred. And Cordy. And Spike, a few times. And Buffy, twice. And Motormouth. And Wash. And Book. He kills whomever ratchets up the emotion the most- ergo, Kitty here. Dollars to donuts, that is. :-)

All of the above is true, of course, but Joss is playing with borrowed characters this time. Try to think more like Marvel Comics and less like Joss to figure this one out...

Hjermsted | December 29, 09:39 CET

Also, I really don't think that he's gonna kill Kitty. I just don't. It's not like he can undo it, like he can with his own chars.

You... don't really understand comics do you?

Gouki | December 29, 11:51 CET

But if his run ends with this arc, then he really won't be able to undo it! It's not like he's Chris Claremont, writing the title for two decades, where he can kill people off but resurrect them about 50 issues down the road...

dark_tyler | December 29, 14:13 CET

Now there's an idea! Joss could write the series for two decades! Joss, you still reading this?

Niels | December 29, 14:22 CET

uh, I've been away from the whole X-Men thing for awhile, so I have an incredibly uninformed question....what happened to Scott's glasses/powers? And please remember, I'm old, so be nice.... ; )

VerseRoamer | December 29, 19:26 CET

Hjermsted: If I think like Marvel, then I would kill the dragon, since that is the least important part of the X-Men universe and it would not matter. But I think that Joss cannot hep but think like Joss, so that means it has to hit hard emotionally, and nothing would hit harder than Kitty- unless it is Peter as part of him coming back, which still would not hit as hard as Kitty, just sayin'.

Dana5140 | December 29, 20:16 CET

If Joss kills Kitty (while there is the Dead is Dead policy), I'm never watching/reading anything he works on ever again.

I think you just doomed Kitty *laughs*. I remember people having this argument about Fred, and Wash, and Tara, and Trinity. No, wait, I think people clapped when Trinity died (well, I did).

gossi | December 29, 23:20 CET

VerseRoamer:

(spoilers for the last arc of AXM)

Emma (kinda) got inside Scott's head and incapacitated him with his own neuroses. Part of her schtick was that the reason he couldn't control his optic beams because he lacked confidence and was afraid of his own power. So either this realization or something she did in his head made it so that he can control them now without the ruby quartz. That was my understanding anyway, haven't read the issues since they came out a couple of months ago, so I may be a tiny bit off.

Tycho | December 30, 01:24 CET

*waves* Hey, I got linked up on here a while back so I decided to bite the bullet and get an account.

Tycho -- actually, Scott is now saying that he has lost access to his power, so he can't use his powers, but they aren't getting in his way either. He's historically been unable to control his powers, supposedly because of brain damage he got when his parents' plane crashed.

Anyway -- I love this series and I have faith in Joss; I'm only a little trepidatious because "X-men in space" tends to be where promising storylines go to die. On the other hand, as somebody has mentioned, Xavier is floating around out there, and Scott's actual father is somewhere being a space pirate (no, I'm not kidding). Being a fan of transgeneration X-men angst, I've got my fingers crossed for a cameo. Or, you know, they could always run into Serenity and leave one of the crew out there. Logan and Kaylee would get on like a house on fire.

likeadeuce | December 30, 05:48 CET

likeadeuce, I'd love to see both of the teams in space end up together as well.

As for the X-Men being Marvel's characters so Joss can't kill them off like he usually does, the problem is that the current editors love death and carnage. This year, there's been non-stop funerals - nearly 50 students, Banshee, and most of the Grey family. You'd think Tim Minear was writing New X-Men at the rate characters are killed. No wonder Emma has such guilt issues.

As the Wizard article said, the editors aren't going to let Wolvie, Scott or Emma be killed off since they're so important to other books. That leaves Peter, Hank and Kitty. Killing Hisako or Lockheed doesn't have a big impact. Morrison went out with a bang killing off Jean which changed everything. Kitty's death would have the same type of impact. Since Kitty's only recently come back after being exiled to character limbo, it worries me that she'd be easily killed off. Kitty's death would anger the long-time fans and further alienate female readers, but it would have that shock value that the editors think makes people buy comics. It's just a dangerous combination of editors who love killing characters and Joss Whedon.

FaithFan | December 30, 08:52 CET

On the other hand, we know how Marvel is able to retcon everything by using silly one-line excuses like "That impostor in Genosha". I'm so glad that Joss has acknowledged Magneto's death and hasn't used him in his run, but the sad fact is that officialy the man is alive and well. So, I guess my point is that Joss, a star-writer selling even more than Grant Morrison, could probably get away with killing off just about anyone short of Wolverine, and then Marvel could in turn pretend it never happened.

If I were Emma Frost I'd be very afraid right now. She's clearly the Spike of the piece, and we all know what happens in the end to the redemption-seeking heroes/ex-monsters. And I know I'll love it, too, if it happens.

dark_tyler | December 30, 11:46 CET

Marvel does have a schizophrenic attitude to character death -- using it left and right for drama, then ignoring or undoing it if/when it's convenient. We've already seen that in AXM with Colossus. That's exactly why I think that Joss is going to do his best to get out of this without killing anybody, since he's not going to be in control of how the death (inevitably, I think -- speaking as a major Jean Grey fan) gets undone.

likeadeuce | December 30, 22:41 CET

Addendum -- I don't actually think it's likely that the space teams will cross paths, just because Marvel doesn't seem that well coordinated between the titles. Unless maybe that's the plan for Giant Size. . .

likeadeuce | December 30, 22:42 CET

We really wanna talk emotional impact here? We really wanna go there? 'Cause Gouki, let me tell you, I've been reading comics before puberty, and I'm over 20, so I think I have a fair grasp on them. Ignoring continuity, ret-con, "dead is dead" phooey, the greatest emotional impact is... not Kitty. Beast or Colossus would have greater impact. Scott would have greater impact. If I sound like a condescending douchebag, forgive me, but I think because Joss and present company clearly all adore Kitty, some of us might be thinking her death would have the greatest impact. But think about how many titles Kitty was in before Joss jumped on. I think Claremont did an odd solo mini called Mechanix or something like that, but if I remember correctly, she wasn't on any teams. She left the X-Men and joined college after Colossus died. Beast is perhaps the most universally loved X-Man after Wolverine. Come on! Who doesn't love the furball? Scott... is Scott. He's never NOT been in a title. And taking Colossus out after bringing him back would just sting in a very bad way. As for Emma and Wolvie, they're untouchable. Emma has emerged as the very loyal leader of the Xavier Institute and co-leader if the X-Men, despite recent events in AXM. When Ironman came to the Institute to talk Civil War, he spoke to Emma, who basically told to leave the Mutants alone, or else. She is the go to gal. And Wolvie is Wolvie, period.

likeadeuce, I agree with you completely. Just like he honors Claremont's and Morrison's classic runs, I think he deservedly expects the same honor towards his run on future runs with different writers. I think if he killed someone, especially Kitty, he would want any un-killing to be done on his terms.

Nicanor | December 30, 23:13 CET

Of course I could be wrong ;)

Nicanor | December 30, 23:14 CET

But Scott has already been dead rather recently. His death was one of the biggest reasons for the Dead-Is-Dead policy, since he appeared in Uncanny before the last issue of the Search for Cyclops limited where he was discovered alive was even released. It's not like the X-Men haven't had to go through loosing Scott not that long ago.

The rest of the teams are at odd with Scott anyway, especially with both of the other teams leaving. If Kitty died, it would be one more thing that Scott & Emma did wrong. If Scott died, they'd be leaderless and Storm would be forced to come back.

As for Kitty not being on any teams prior to Astonishing, Claremont was banned by the editors from using her. He got a special exemption for the Mechanix limited and to bring her in for the GLMK sequel, but Claremont spend all his time on message boards whining and complaining that the editors wouldn't let him use Kitty. Claremont even tried to get Kitty on the Fantastic Four when he was writing that and she wasn't being used in any X-books, but the editors blocked that attempt as well and Kitty remained in character limbo.

But in defense of the editors, Claremont was trying to make Kitty edgier in an attempt to update her, and a lot of that seemed to be based on Willow's transformation in Buffy. It didn't exactly work all that well. But the editors have always been against Kitty and without Joss pushing for her to be on a team, she would have remained in character limbo, and without Joss, Kitty is probably good as dead.

[ edited by FaithFan on 2006-12-30 22:27 ]

FaithFan | December 31, 00:03 CET

Yep! See, all these analyses make sense. And that is why, when all is said and done, it will still be Kitty. Because that is who we care about, not who Joss cares about (even though he does). So, I see this as going only one of two ways, though I still feel Kitty- it could be Colossus, since that is who Kitty loves (shades of.... Willow and Tara, Wesley and Fred, Xander and Anya, etc., ad infinitum) or it could be Kitty herself, and I think it the latter since Peter is so obviously Jossian in tactics.

(ETA) Oh, and Nicanor, I also started reading comics even before puberty, but I hit my twenties about 33 years ago so I have a bit more experience than you here. :-)

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2006-12-30 22:07 ]

Dana5140 | December 31, 00:06 CET

So what's the Dead is Dead policy supposed to be? I must have missed this, since it obviously didn't affect Magneto or Colossus. I don't think it's a bad idea, in principle, but it seems like the practical effect would be that they can't kill characters who sell books -- which would mostly seem to be Emma and Logan, in this case.

Also, I want my Jean back. *sulks*

*still doesn't think anybody is dying in "Unstoppable"*

likeadeuce | December 31, 00:31 CET

Let me just start off by saying how much fun this bantering is, and I do hope no one is getting too annoyed with any of it. And Dana5140, I do bow down to your comic wisdom, but I was politely rebutting Gouki there. Likeadeuce, I want Jean back as well. *sniff*. FaithFan, thank you for all the details, but I disagree in that if Scott died, again, Emma would still be the leader of the X-Men and the Xavier Institute, a fact that Storm probably would not be happy with, but no matter, since she's shacked with Black Panther and joining the FF. Emma rules though, I love what Joss has done with her, and I think she's a great complex leader. On a final fanboy note, regardless of what I predict, I do hope that Kitty and Beast come back (and Hisako!) because I think that Scott and Emma need a break and they would make a great duo of interim leaders of the Institute. Mwahahahahaha :)

Nicanor | December 31, 01:22 CET

LOL, Nicanor- I grew up reading DC comics, not Marvel and to this day don't care for Marvel much at all, save for X-Men. But I lurve Justice League and of course am excited that I get to combine DC with Joss in Wonder Woman. And sure, I knows ya were rebutting Gouki, but I just had to add my additional 4.3 cents there.

It's still gonna be Kitty, though. :-) Bet on it.

Dana5140 | December 31, 01:46 CET

I could see it being Colossus because then Joss can make Kitty suffer. She's suffering now, a la Xander in Hells Bells but think of the potential for remorse and pain if she didn't have time to get back with him?
And I loved in this last issue when Beast was called the Cookie Monster. Hee

Lioness | December 31, 03:51 CET

Upon further reflection, I believe the X-Men who will die is Longshot. Because no one will ever see it coming. Of course, Joss will see this and quickly change the ending because I guessed it after all, so you'll all never know how right I am.

Niels | December 31, 05:26 CET

Speculatin' is fun. Here's mine:

1) Somewhere in the battle with Breakworld, Kitty will die. Colossus will, in a fit of grief, take the missile revealed in #19, the one that could "crack the earth in half", and use it to destroy Breakworld by literally throwing it at the planet, ala a fastball special, from the moon where it's kept... thus fulfilling the prophecy.

2) Or, it'll be Scott. I can actually imagine Marvel allowing it, even encouraging it. It would set up Emma as the new leader of the X-men (if she isn't already... she sure acts it), and make her a more interesting character at the same time-- she wouldn't just be some young upstart leader, she'd have enough history with the team to be an appropriately tragic leader, like Scott.

dispatch | December 31, 15:02 CET

No one mentioned Loo. This is the man who killed Loo. I can't help but think however, would Kitty be just too predictable?

WhoIsOmega? | January 01, 00:00 CET

dispatch -- So much of the focus of this run seems to be on Scott finding his place as a leader, and to bringing him to the front of the franchise again, that I'm hoping it doesn't lead up to his dying. That doesn't seem logical to me, but then, I would have said the same thing about Jean in the Morrison run. I kind of shudder at the idea of Emma as sole head of the Xmen, not because I don't like her (though a lot of the time, I don't) but because I don't know who would balance out her personality without Scott around. I think he's the only person whose views she really cares about.

likeadeuce | January 01, 03:40 CET

December 28 2006