Whedonesque : Comments on 12242 : (SPOILER) Witchy, witchy wallpapers.

Willow! (Direct link)

[ edited by gossi on 2007-01-13 22:32 ]

Really like that picture, looks amazing!

I'm tired of little sneak peeks, I want this comic now!

Man, that is beautiful. I loves me some Jo Chen.

Well that's blown my "the logo is a new brand name" theory... Unless Willow has "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" tattooed on her back, which I don't really assume would happen. (Plus the other wallpaper seems to suggest the placement.)

I like it though, it's a bit more revealy than I'd expect from Willow, but she may have gone slightly evil from the look of it so it's understandable.

orangewaxlion | January 13, 22:04 CET

Slightly evil? I think there is absolutely nothing evil about this look. :-D

Niels(Telltale) | January 13, 22:13 CET

Holy mother of God and all her wacky nephews.

That is...that's something, let me tell ya. I loves me some Willow, and I apparently feel the same way about Jo Chen.

UnpluggedCrazy | January 13, 22:13 CET

OMG, that picture is pure genius.

[ edited by cypher on 2007-01-13 23:34 ]

cypher | January 13, 22:23 CET

Is Buffy being attacked by inkblots?

Love the art for all three characters.

Sunfire | January 13, 22:29 CET

Willow is slightly bustier than I recall but it captures her essence superbly - March can't come too soon.

moley75 | January 13, 22:32 CET

My, Willow, how you've grown! Aly is probably rolling her eyes as we write. I sincerely hope that they shy away from the buxom superhero look so prevalent in comics, and make Willow actually really look like Willow- which a lot of the pic really does, but hey, bust too big!

Dana5140 | January 13, 22:34 CET

Wow, best cover yet for Buffy.8 Her outfit reminds me of her doppelgangland one, "Gosh look at those!"

feigenbaum7 | January 13, 22:48 CET

Yes she's grown unexpectedly, but that's a fantastic picture of Willow. If Joss really isn't going to reintroduce Willow until the third comic, I hope there are a few hints about what she's upto in the first two. I love Willow, but then my username probably gave that away!

ArielWillow | January 13, 23:13 CET

Hel-loooooo Witch!

Craig Oxbrow | January 13, 23:20 CET

Ditto.

delirium_haze | January 13, 23:28 CET

I dunno if it's really evil, she just has a coy smile and her hand is sort of smoking. Aside from being revealy and dressed in black. Even when she was more full fledged witch I don't remember her wearing black that often without also being morally questionable or evil. And the black nailpolish! I think Spike's the only other one to have done that but during his evil chipped state.

orangewaxlion | January 13, 23:47 CET

Oz painted his nails too, quite possibly black when his hair was, in Doppelgangland.

Craig Oxbrow | January 13, 23:52 CET

YES!! YES! Tell me more! Chen is three for three, though number three is number one in my opinion. So, so glad Buffy isn't in this one.
Sort of off topic--Cast, by a certain point should include: Buffy, Xander, Willow, Giles, Dawn, Kennedy, Faith, Wood, and Andrew right? Along with muchos Slayers and smudgens of Spike and maybe Angel? We know Amy is showing up, too. Any other wish-lists? I'd take Ethan Rayne, Oz, Riley and Sam, Clem, and Drusilla.

CaptainB | January 13, 23:59 CET

Is Buffy being attacked by inkblots?

I already mentioned it in the Runaways thread where I put the Willow link first, but that one's from the old Buffy series.

There were three arcs bridging the story of the film and the Welcome to the Hellmouth, and this is from when Buffy was in the nuthouse. Those were quite good stories, actually, so if anyone can't wait for March, check those out. 'Viva Las Buffy,' 'Slayer, Interrupted' and 'A Stake Through the Heart,' if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: Gaaah! Left this message stand on Preview for a couple of hours.

In the meantime I decided to write a guide to the most interesting of the older Buffy comics. It's on my blog for anyone who's interested. (This is the first time I've ever said, "I wrote about such-and-such on my blog." Does it always make you feel so pretentious?)

[ edited by Telltale on 2007-01-14 01:21 ]

Niels(Telltale) | January 14, 00:15 CET

Jo Chen has already amazed me with her Runaways covers and these Buffy ones are really getting me excited for Season Eight.

megaloo | January 14, 00:15 CET

I love this artwork. I've never enjoyed pictures of the characters or fanart before, but this stuff is gorgeous.

lone fashionable wolf | January 14, 00:19 CET

Wow. The likenesses and coloring effects on these are amazing. She seems to have some problems with female proportions, though. Buffy and Willow both have man shoulders, and Willow's arm is insanely long. Still, they're very impressive. I can't wait for March.

RaisedByMongrels | January 14, 00:44 CET

I'm looking forward to see what she does with Giles.

Lioness | January 14, 00:59 CET

Love these desktops. I'm always looking for new ways to decorate my computer. I've got to add these to my laptop, too.

impalergeneral | January 14, 01:10 CET

She seems to have some problems with female proportions, though. Buffy and Willow both have man shoulders, and Willow's arm is insanely long.

RaisedByMongrels, I can tell you that some women (well, at least one) do have roughly those proportions. "Man shoulders." Rub it in why don't you.

Telltale, please don't feel pretentious. Your teacherly side has been helpful to me and I'm sure a lot of other comics newbies.

dreamlogic | January 14, 01:18 CET

If the Willow wallpaper really is from the third cover then each cover has gotten even better than the previous one.

Derf | January 14, 01:26 CET

The Willow cover is just stunning! *changes desktop from Firefly to Willow*

Charmuse | January 14, 01:31 CET

There's some very nice pics of Joss and Jo at her MySpace page.

And the Willow artwork is stunning. I can't wait to see what how she interprets Giles.

Simon | January 14, 01:50 CET

I really hope she does all the covers for Season 8! Because I really want to see a Jo Chen Faith cover!! But, yes, I also can't wait to see what she does with Giles for issue #4...

crossoverman | January 14, 02:29 CET

These are awesome. ALL of them. My personal favorite is Buffy and Xander so far but can't wait to see the sexy librian show his face.

cheryl | January 14, 02:44 CET

RaisedByMongrels, I can tell you that some women (well, at least one) do have roughly those proportions. "Man shoulders." Rub it in why don't you.

True, but Buffy and Willow do not. No disrespect to Jo Chen or any wide-shouldered women, of course.

RaisedByMongrels | January 14, 03:07 CET

Telltale-- Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't checked into the other thread since really early on. And thanks also for the the awesome link !

Sunfire | January 14, 03:19 CET

Talk about bringing sexy back.

jlp | January 14, 04:16 CET

Also (yay!) no Buffy logo on the threads!

CaptainB | January 14, 05:01 CET

Willow! Love the walls. Wouldn't mind if they made some in widescreen tho'.

willbueche | January 14, 05:30 CET

Uh...to those who think that the art so far in the sneak-peeks for BS8 has been too "busty," I have to say that it really isn't, if you consider the medium. I've been considering it for over a decade, and I am impressed with Joss's influence.

While the art (so far) for the comics mayn't be entirely faithful to the attributes of the actresses from the show, these women are practically flat-chested as compared to like 90% of comic book art out there now.

If TPTB in the industry had their way they'd all look like the pin-up girls that always have their own special aisles at the cons (packed to the gills with drooly bug-eyed fanboys not trying hard enough to look at the women's faces when they buy their autographed photos).

But Joss has probably been adamant, so we have less bustiness. And, as a result, I am sure there are comics fans out there that will not pick up the book because that is what they like and expect to see in their comic books.

Besides, I have the copy of the FHM magazine (June 2003) where Aly wore more revealing...outfits...and I'd say that she hasn't been drawn too incorrectly, considering that in the artwork Willow is wearing a sheer, form-fitting dress.

woo & hoo | January 14, 06:13 CET

willbueche, and other "widescreen" fans--I just put up one that can be scaled up to fit your 1920x1200 at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anna_thetical/356567218/

(sorry you gotta scale, but Flickr don't allow anything larger than 1024x for their non-paying users...)

annagranfors | January 14, 06:29 CET

annagranfors, I have bandwidth enough to host it if you want to email it to my name at yahoo.com. On the other hand, does Darkhorse want widescreen users to be able to use this or would they get upset?

willbueche | January 14, 06:34 CET

willbueche--dunno...but I'd rather not step on any toes. but anybody that wants the "real" 1920x1200 is welcome to it...just leave me a request here, and I'll hook ya up. willbueche, check your e-mail. :)

annagranfors | January 14, 06:57 CET

Thx!

willbueche | January 14, 07:09 CET

woo & hoo- Aly also said the lad mag enhanced her pics a bit. People are not going to buy this comic because it features busty women, or not buy it for that matter, either; they'll buy it because it is the canonic continuation of the best program ever put on tv. For that reason it should hew fairly closely to what was portrayed on tv, so that the likenesses of the characters look like the actors who played them. For me, verisimilitude is important. It's a great drawing but that ain't Willow's bust; what that is is a comicbook convention.

Dana5140 | January 14, 14:45 CET

Dana5140 I agree,. The most extreme example of this being one of the front covers of the one shot Illyria comic. The poor women was given a enormous bust! Something we all know poor old Fred never had in the series.

Are comic fans that dim as to still require this kind of 'mutilation' to their favorite characters just so they can read them? I dread to think.....

sueworld2003 | January 14, 16:18 CET

Uh, its not like Willow is hugely busty in this cover. She is a little bigger...which does happen sometimes as one gets older...and she is wearing something extremely form fitting/revealing which Willow was doing more and more of as she gained confidence in herself. It may be much more comicy than TV'y, but IMO it is hardly overboard. She also seems to be doing a spell, so the more impressive physique overall seemed sensible to me. (Wide shouldered, long armed women unite! We don't have "man-shoulders" we have "a more impressive physique". ;-) )

newcj | January 14, 16:59 CET

Exquisite artwork, a seriously talented lady.

The Do That Girl | January 14, 18:30 CET

Dana5140, I do not think comics fans are dim, but many of them seek (and have come to expect) a certain stripe of fantasy in the penciling of their characters. Be it perverted, or sexist, or non-canonical, or impossible even. It is a release from reality, into a world that doesn't have to worry about gravity or rules or imperfections, or laws, or the fact that many of them will never be inches away from the fantasy physiques they see. Reading a history of comics will explain this better than I can at the moment. And a trip to any comix shop will present you with the template physique (both male and female). It is pointedly not realistic. There is a movement away from this, but a majority of comics (especially those in the superhero and scifi/fantasy genres) will remain this way for the forseeable future.

So I do not agree with you that a significant portion of comics fans will not be swayed one way or another by the artwork. Please see this very cynical and frustrated criticism in a Livejournal post of a Wizard Magazine lesson on how to draw females in comics for a preview.

Many comics fans will follow Joss from his stellar run on Astonishing X-Men to this series, or simply because he is touted by TPTB as one of the topflight comics writers at the moment. Just as some comics fans will buy things that Neil Gaiman writes, people will buy things on Joss's reputation alone.

sueworld2003's Illyria 1-shot example is a perfect example of my point about the typical upgrade for comics adaptations. They will not necessarily be canonical representations because they do not have to be. Just as you are not limited on your vision of storytelling because of budget (a few mouse clicks or pencil strokes could represent many thousands of dollars in TV or film), you can do the same with physical representations.

If versimilitude was the most important factor in marketing to comics fans, Illyria wouldn't have had such a fanservice upgrade. Why do you think that the question was asked by Joss's TV Guide interviewer? ...it is because that is what happens in comics. Thus the Illyria boob job...and the BSG boob jobs (not to mention the de-aging of everyone, most notably Roslin), and the Star Wars boob jobs and the Star Trek boob jobs and the blahblahblah boob jobs.

It is striking that Buffy and Willow and company are not D-cups or DD-cups. Or that Xander doesn't have a 28" waist and 42" chest. That was my point. And that is why I posted.

I was being all impressed and stuff with Joss's influence -- that he could keep them relatively realistic in their attributes, despite the expectations of fans of the medium. It is, methinks, precisely because Joss believes it distasteful that in the Dark Horse comic licensing of Buffy Season 8 they aren't getting the upgrade.

It is also probably because most of the fans of the show are thinking people who would want a canonical representation, and since they are hoping to draw in non-comics fans, this would be more of a necessity. While I think that there is a significant overlap between the Buffy fandom and comics fans, I think that many readers of BS8 will be either new or casual readers of comics who were fans of one of the TV shows. I think they are banking on this...why else advertise in TV Guide? I am personally ordering 8 copies of the comic book on my monthly saver form for friends who are Buffy fans, but don't read comics otherwise. I have seen many comments in this forum by people who have never read a comic book, but will for BS8.

Then again, I read so much garbage on the 'net complaining about how ugly and fat the stunning (in my opinion) Amber Benson was while the show was still on air...so maybe the relatively slight upgrades they did get were pandering not just to the comics fanboys...

[ edited by woo & hoo on 2007-01-14 23:36 ]

woo & hoo | January 14, 22:32 CET

Amber Benson is gorgeous, and I'd be happy if she date one of my kids- the older ones (twins) are 26, and brainy, like me, and good looking, not so much like me. She's a real woman.

No, I take your point. What I was saying really referred to me- I prefer that verisimilitude; I don't prefer antigravity boobs, 20 inch waists and etcetera. I've read and followed comimcs for much of my life, and to this day prefer story over art- though I don't much care for manga style drawing in any "normal" comic (ie, not Manga). That's just me. I can see Jo Chen has amazing chops, but I did not care for the Xander depiction, nor really the Buffy one either- but this Willow is excellent save for her silicone.

I'm aware of what the success of this comic will mean for the series, and vice versa. I think the comic faces much the same challenge as the series did- it has that funny name, for one, and it is jumping into the story line with a lot assumed in terms of what the reader will know- sort of like watching Serenity if you eiher did or did not have familiarity with Firefly. There are risks as well- but I'd just like the story to address the story and keep the characters the way I remember them; if not, it won't quite resonate as much since it will be "off key" and cognitively dissonant for me.

Dana5140 | January 14, 22:41 CET

Dana5140 said:

I'd just like the story to address the story and keep the characters the way I remember them; if not, it won't quite resonate as much since it will be "off key" and cognitively dissonant for me.

Well put.

My feelings are akin...to, like, the core of my being.

There has been a terrible sucking wound where Buffy used to be, that no amount of Angel, Veronica Mars, Bones, or whatever else has really been able to fill or heal.

I need this adaptation to be good.

woo & hoo | January 14, 23:09 CET

woo & hoo-"I *need* this adaptation to be good"...well put, yourself. so far, I'm about 99% in love with what I've seen. obviously, Joss and everyone else involved are taking it seriously...the "canon" word is not thrown about lightly, I'm sure.

oh, and btw...all y'all Big Black-types really oughtta check out more of Brian K. (Runaways) Vaughan's stuff. I'm a proudly-lapsed comix geekette, but his "Y-The Last Man" book is *really* phenomenal, and I keep fantasizing Joss producing a TV version while I read it. it's completely--well, er, Whedonesque.

annagranfors | January 15, 00:00 CET

Just to represent the other side, there are also plenty of comic book readers who just groan at some of the proportions. I don't know if we're really such a minority or if the artists just haven't caught on, but we're forced to grin and bear it.

The sad thing? I sometimes find myself thinking, "Well, at least her head is drawn bigger than her breasts this time."

In related news, stiletto heels are not appropriate footwear for fights and running across rooftops. Grr, argh.

Annagranfors, absolutely, Y: The Last Man is phenomenal indeed. There is actually a movie version floating somewhere in development hell. Tried BKV's Ex Machina yet?

[ edited by Telltale on 2007-01-15 02:46 ]

Niels(Telltale) | January 15, 01:45 CET

You know in all honesty, Willow's uh, chest, looks about the same as the actress to me. Maybe I have a poor memory?

A womens bust doesn't always stay the same. Look at SMG in season 1. She was pretty busty. She lost some weight and wasn't quite as busty as before. It's just one of those things.

cheryl | January 15, 02:02 CET

January 13 2007