"Yes, we liked the show quite a bit when it was called Angel."
Zap2it points out the obvious about CBS' latest pilot pickup "Twilight".
More details over at Variety.
January 29 2007
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billz | January 29, 14:44 CET
Teehee!
jenofthejungle | January 29, 14:48 CET
ETA: meant Zap2It, I was reading a snarky quote from TWoP in an email in another window and my wires got crossed.
[ edited by zeitgeist on 2007-01-29 22:51 ]
zeitgeist | January 29, 14:50 CET
And to be fair, I think Forever Knight deserves granddaddy status in the vampire as detective genre. :)
KernelM | January 29, 15:03 CET
Wait a second...
The Arcane | January 29, 15:05 CET
Sometimes the people are right.
Love's Bitch | January 29, 15:12 CET
Or maybe CBS programming kinda forgot "Angel" existed.
impalergeneral | January 29, 15:22 CET
It's quite a clever ruse if you ask me.
Hjermsted | January 29, 15:25 CET
deepgirl187 | January 29, 15:26 CET
rip-offcopy Forever Knight and Angel, the only question is, can he fly?lycoming | January 29, 15:32 CET
Nebula1400 | January 29, 15:34 CET
toast | January 29, 15:42 CET
Taking network ignorence to a whole new(ish) hell dimension.....er.....level.
Trek_Girl42 | January 29, 16:00 CET
[ edited by cityof on 2007-01-29 23:33 ]
cityof | January 29, 16:32 CET
anyways, the CBS suits are idiots if they think no-one is going to notice their creative theft.
ladygrey | January 29, 16:38 CET
Tonya J | January 29, 16:48 CET
There are only so many stories to tell, after all. It's how you tell it that makes the difference. The premise for pretty much every medical drama ever is the same. Same for lawyer shows. Same for umpteen cop/crime shows. And yet there are still huge variations in quality among these shows.
KernelM | January 29, 17:14 CET
@theonetruebix | January 29, 17:18 CET
urkonn | January 29, 17:57 CET
It's pretty specific but then, in fairness, we've had the press release, tag line, pitch-it-in-ten-words-or-less version of the premise, maybe there's more to it. The UK series 'Ultraviolet' was basically 'vampires battle mortals for control of the world'. 'K, like, yawnsville right ? But the implementation was cool and original.
Saje | January 29, 18:13 CET
So I'm not the only person in the world with fond memories of this excellent (and all too short) series then? I was starting to think I was the only one who had seen it.
Coolest thing about Ultraviolet? I believe that it was the only vampire series made to never actually use the word 'vampire'. Strange but true.
The Arcane | January 29, 18:19 CET
As for the people complaining about it being a ripoff, I'll kindly refer you to James Gunn's comments about Fred Dekker when he was accused of ripping off Dekker's movies. And remember, people made similar accusations about Joss when they noticed similarities between Firefly and Cowboy Beebop, so don't be too quick to jump to conclusions.
The fact that two creators are inspired by the same thing (or are both ripping off the same stereotypes) doesn't mean their work is any less valid. The question is whether or not they have new ideas on how to flesh out the old stereotypes. Angel may have had the same elevator pitch as Forever Knight, but it ran with it in a completely different direction. With any luck, this new show will do the same.
RayHill | January 29, 18:39 CET
kballgetlost | January 29, 18:40 CET
And I keep reading of Tim Kring saying that he's never been a superhero comic reader. Somehow, that doesn't stop me from seeing almost every power he puts in his show as an adaptation of an X-Men character. (Disclaimer: I love Heroes, just saying.)
In spite of myself, I can't help thinking, "Ooh, it's like Angel? I wanna see!"
Niels van Eekelen | January 29, 19:00 CET
cheryl | January 29, 19:31 CET
Was there a series called Ultraviolet? Because I saw the movie with Milla Jovovich and I thought it was a waste of time, money and pretty.
Xane | January 29, 19:32 CET
Love's Bitch | January 29, 19:36 CET
bookworm | January 29, 19:37 CET
I can't be the only person who's just a wee bit afraid.
[ edited by twa_corbies on 2007-01-30 02:41 ]
twa_corbies | January 29, 19:40 CET
Hey, will Twilight have a snarky blond vampire sidekick that half of us can go bats for and watch him nick the lead's girlfriend after the lead goes all noble and leaves her, and then we can have silly fandom arguments between us and drive everyone else bats too? I could go for that...
*ducks and runs*
roadrunner | January 29, 19:40 CET
[ edited by thiscloud on 2007-01-30 02:54 ]
thiscloud | January 29, 19:53 CET
lol, bookworm! i'd watch that show!
i would love to see ron perlman back on tv, as a vampire private eye or any other character really.
charlie huston's books are GREAT, btw. if 'twilight' is like that, i will definately give it a try.
ladygrey | January 29, 20:05 CET
Here I was thinking to myself that the show is probably going to be shite until you wrote that Tonya J. Then you went and made me hope for something that, let's face it, is never going to happen again. Even if one of the crew from Beauty and the Beast is in it!
I love Ron too.
[ edited by nixygirl on 2007-01-30 03:19 ]
nixygirl | January 29, 20:19 CET
Tonya J | January 29, 20:25 CET
JesterInACast | January 29, 20:27 CET
Lost and Gilligan's Island have the same initial premise, after all.
Is the best damn logic I've heard in awhile. JesterInACast (great name btw), can I borrow that for future armchair/Internet TV critism?
WhoIsOmega? | January 29, 20:40 CET
Or is it just Torchwood doing that nowadays?
Craig Oxbrow | January 29, 20:41 CET
Tonya J | January 29, 20:45 CET
The author has this to say about the subject of the similarity of sympathetic vampires:
"Well, "Penance" doesn't seem all that unique to me. Writers like Chelsea Quinn Yarbro and Fred Saberhagen have written about sympathetic vampires for years. And vampires have become stock erotic figures in certain kinds of "romance" novels. But I do find that stereotypes paralyze creativity; and I never seem to get story ideas that don't in some form involve discarding preconceptions, prior expectations, and stereotypes. In other words, discarding stereotypes isn't so much a conscious choice as a creative necessity."
fanbuoyant | January 29, 20:53 CET
*coughBatmancough* ;-)
billz | January 29, 21:48 CET
Haunt | January 29, 22:26 CET
KernelM | January 29, 22:49 CET
Forgive my cynicism, borne as it was from previous dreck.
Presumptuous, much?
Willowy | January 29, 22:59 CET
*why yes, I would like a sexass vampire with my crime-solving, thank you!*
UnderTheDark | January 30, 00:12 CET
Zeppo | January 30, 02:37 CET
Erm, aren't we all taking a personal interest one way or another, s'why we posted surely ? Someone else used the word 'defensive' which is also a bit loaded (there's a difference between 'defending' and 'defensiveness'). And it's not really ironic either (in the words of Irish comic Ed Byrne it's just 'fuckin unfortunate' ;). But apart from all that we're in total agreement ;-).
Was there a series called Ultraviolet? Because I saw the movie with Milla Jovovich and I thought it was a waste of time, money and pretty.
Not seen the film but the Channel 4 UK series from the late 90s sounds very different. It was contemporary and about a semi-official government team working to contain the vampire threat (though, as Arcane mentions, they never said 'vampire', they used slang terms or sometimes 'code 5' - 5 being 'V' in Roman numerals - in keeping with the down-to-earth, non-supernatural feel of the show).
Coolest thing about Ultraviolet? I believe that it was the only vampire series made to never actually use the word 'vampire'
That was cool but the real coolest thing about 'Ultraviolet' IMO ? Ex-squaddy and all-round kicker of ass, taker of names, Vaughan Rice, hands down. He was the kind of hard that English (note, not British) characters do very well, elsewhere not so much. It didn't come from diving through doors guns ablazing, it came from that staple of the English character, good old bottled-up, buttoned-down, seethingly repressed rage ;).
(got it on DVD in a box somewhere, may need to dig it out to re-view)
Saje | January 30, 05:15 CET
Thanks for making me laugh out loud this morning. I needed it.
[ edited by Cider on 2007-01-30 12:53 ]
Cider | January 30, 05:53 CET
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Wimbledon) has been cast as the lead, an immortal man who works as a police detective whose "curse" (or "blessing") of immortality was placed on him, unwillingly, by some indigenous people (Native Americans, in this case). Said curse can only be lifted by finding his one, true love.
the Groosalugg | January 30, 07:53 CET
The_Joker | January 30, 08:15 CET
(unless he was really unkillable - don't much fancy floating around in space after the Earth's destroyed by the Sun's death for example, especially with no light to read by)
It also strikes me that working for the police presents a lot of problems for an immortal - assuming he keeps it secret - that working as a PI wouldn't. Like, when he doesn't age, don't his colleagues notice ? What about pensions, medicals etc. ?
Saje | January 30, 08:57 CET
Doesn't Chirstopher Golden write some of the Buffy novels?
deepgirl187 | January 30, 10:01 CET
(he apparently wrote the first 'Shadow' book in 1994 though i.e. pre-Angel and Buffy the series)
Saje | January 30, 10:12 CET
That was part of the pain of loving the mortal woman - he never stayed in one place for long.
Lioness | January 30, 10:54 CET
Which is basically a rip of Highlander, where the same problems were often experienced by the various Immortals.
I guess no television concept is ever going to be a truly original idea these days. No matter what is put forward there will likely be an existing show that is similar, one way or another. I suppose with that in mind we should all really give Twilight the benefit of the doubt and see if it can put a fresh twist on a not so fresh concept.
The Arcane | January 30, 13:24 CET
zeitgeist | January 30, 14:04 CET
Not a vampire ballerina exactly, but there is a graphic novel coming out about vampires, with a ballerina in the lead role.
My thought process was as follows: Vampires + ballerina = Waiting in the Wings = Summer Glau = so I'm ordering this book, apparently.
Niels van Eekelen | January 30, 14:11 CET
I think the concept of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (maybe you heard about it) was very original. I am no expert in american TV from before the 90's, but I never heard about anything like it.
p.s. Thank you Cider for quoting me.
urkonn | January 30, 14:32 CET
roadrunner said
Me too, but only if the sidekick's a better actor...and prettier.
Perhaps it's just Warner Bros' way of bringing back Angel and not having to pay 20th Century Fox for it ;)
*thinks Hollywood sits on a hellmouth*
anindoorkitty | January 30, 14:43 CET
To be picky though, whilst the idea of the main character was certainly original, the basic themes of Buffy were nothing new. Vampires, werewolves, demons, all your standard horror stereotypes. Whilst Joss put his own original spin on them they were still fairly well used concepts.
Which is also sort of what I was saying about Twilight. Until we see what they intend to do with the basic idea then we may be being unfair to think it won't be able to find a unique voice.
The Arcane | January 30, 14:49 CET
gossi | January 30, 15:31 CET
And from the episodes I remember watching many years ago, they can count themselves blessed. ;)
The Arcane | January 30, 19:19 CET
nixygirl | January 31, 05:38 CET