Joel Silver Comments At Wonder Con About Joss's Exit From Wonder Woman.
Joel Silver was put on the hot seat by an angry Whedon fan at a Wonder Con panel.
It was at the panel for,"The Reaping." Scroll down a couple of paragraphs to read his response.
March 04 2007
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They just let the Wonder of Wonder Woman walk away. Their loss.
cheryl | March 04, 18:45 CET
I want to know why it "didn't work."
Nebula1400 | March 04, 18:57 CET
Resolute | March 04, 18:59 CET
Shey | March 04, 19:02 CET
I dunno... I just can't help but see conspiracy when a writer I like is almost entirely taken off the market for two years... it's the waste of time and talent that bothers me rather than a wasted script treatment, so much...
daylight | March 04, 19:11 CET
*goes off to prepare for his seat in the special hell*
@theonetruebix | March 04, 19:12 CET
Not so much now.
As in, not at all.
The Buffy Season 8 comic series will, I'm sure, be marvelous...but it'll be methadone to this addict.
Meaning, I'll grasp furiously at them.
Chris inVirginia | March 04, 19:14 CET
Then whose fault is it? Someone needs to have the balls to step up and take responcibilty for the descission. Rather than hemming and hawing around with pc-ness, could your problem be because no one knows anything about Wonder Woman, other than the outfit she wears. I don't know what Joss wrote about Wonder Woman but at least it was set in modern times. The other Wonder Woman story is set in WWII. Heck even in the TV show realized after the first season that no one cares about about Wonder Woman in that era, the people want a modern day Wonder Woman. If they were smart they coul make Wonder Woman start out as an eco terrorist, or on the hunt of some sister Amazons who are eco terrorist. For the sake of the greek gods, the world is rife with events that could be used in the story of Wonder Woman. To go back in time only takes female heroes back in time which will not help and will ensure the film will flop. The reason DC is so far behind Marvel is because Marvel has characters, DC seems to be more cardboard than character. I want Joss to take on She-Hulk, that would be a movie to watch.
Ok I am done venting, for now.
RavenU | March 04, 19:17 CET
daylight | March 04, 19:27 CET
leiasky | March 04, 19:34 CET
MySerenity | March 04, 19:45 CET
Nebula1400 | March 04, 19:47 CET
OzLady | March 04, 20:17 CET
I want a good WW movie, one that shows her heart and her power as things not mutually exclusive, and one that shows Steve Trevor as the hero he was (and if you ever saw the JLU cartoons, Bruce Timm had that down perfectly). Its not like Joss is the only one able to do these things and I think that Silver can pull it off--and he earns some money in my book when he says that Marvel has been kicking DC's ass and that its time to reverse that (DC fan here). Maybe it was time to find something else and maybe Joss' script really wasnt that good, we dont know anything for sure. I hope they can pull it off well, and if Silver says that its better off without Joss, im cool with that.
That and im hyped about the Justice League movie...
jerryst3161 | March 04, 20:20 CET
embers | March 04, 20:44 CET
Nebula1400 | March 04, 20:45 CET
And I think Joel Silver gave more than plenty seeing as it was a 'Reaping' event. I tend to not really like it when, for instance, SMG is asked about Buffy at a Grudge event or DB is asked about Angel at a Bones event. And to be honest, IMO, we the fans are not really owed an explanation. Joss knows and Joel knows, and I figure that's as it should be. Sure, it would be nice to know, and I personally think I have it pegged well enough, but it's not owed us.
Rogue Slayer | March 04, 20:57 CET
I'm not going to boycott or refuse seeing WW (if it ever gets made). I just won't at all go out of my way to see it. There's always that late-at-night-nothing-else-on-eight-years-after-release remote chance that I'll catch it. Setting the new project in the past kinda further pushed me into the "no longer interested" camp. I agree with RavenU -- the world needs Wonder Woman today.
WhoIsOmega? | March 04, 21:02 CET
But maybe Goners will turn some heads, we'll have to see.
OneTeV | March 04, 21:11 CET
eddy | March 04, 21:31 CET
As to WW, I am a major DC fan, but I never followed WW- but, I LURVE JLA, and am really looking forward to that, let me tell you. And if Joss wants to write that, that'd be fine by me. :-)
Dana5140 | March 04, 21:44 CET
I'm with OzLady on this -- Silver was put on the spot at an unrelated public event by an incredibly rude question about a private matter between him and Joss Whedon that is, frankly, not any of our concern or business. We don't know the specifics of what happened, nor is there any reason why we should as it's (he says again) a private matter between Joss and the studio.
Wonder Woman's been around for almost 50 years. The character will survive the lack of Joss Whedon writing her movie.
krad | March 04, 21:50 CET
I think that Joss brings a certain vision to the work he does. Now I love this vision, and believe this vision is one that looks at the human condition like few other artists can, and countless others across the world feel the same way about that work.
However Whedon's work has often found a niche audience that loves it and this has translated into gradual wider success. But Joss's stuff has often struggled to break into immediate mainstream massive success amongst the wider public. What if Joel Silver is not just considering the quality of the film, but its box office success.
It would not have surprised me if Whedon's movie was loved by the critics, by his many fans, by comic fans, and by a selection of the movie-viewing audience. However does all this translate to the box office numbers Silver wants? Perhaps not. I would not have surprised if it Joss had made a wonderful beautiful movie. But Silver is not just an artist but also a number cruncher. Maybe no matter how good Whedon's movie could have been, it was not the movie that would bring in the ticket sales Silver and others hoped for.
According to Wikipedia, Silver's "Matrix Reloaded" took in $1billion from cinemas (worldwide). Now I might be in a minority that likes the Matrix sequels, and enjoy occasionally watching them with the original. But how many people really love that movie?
It's like in TV, E.R. has been one of the highest rating shows of all time, and I myself enjoyed the show. In its hey day millions of people quite enjoyed the show. But few people have felt the way about E.R. what a great many feel for "Buffy", "Angel" and "Firefly". Joss probably would have had little interest in running E.R., but I believe if he had run that show it could have been a much better show, but perhaps it would have not had the same mass appeal to Joe Public - and might have had not had the same crazily high ratings.
Dalton | March 04, 21:52 CET
I don't think it was a rude question or out of order. It's a question about what was apparently a business decision, not about his personal life. Silver was appearing in public and answering questions- to be responsive, or appear to be responsive to his audience. Just because a question is awkward doesn't make it rude.
toast | March 04, 22:41 CET
cabri | March 04, 23:27 CET
batmarlowe | March 04, 23:37 CET
[ edited by impalergeneral on 2007-03-05 06:07 ]
impalergeneral | March 05, 00:06 CET
HOWEVER, it's none of our business and I think his being ambushed at an unrelated panel is totally uncool.
crossoverman | March 05, 01:08 CET
I also wish Joel could just say what it was. Not saying just angers people and just might even start an anti-WW crowd.
Whatever, can't wait for Goners and Buffy Season 8.
ChosenOne5376 | March 05, 04:11 CET
On the bright side: yes, Joss is now focusing on Goners, and sounds like he's thinking about TV ideas again. Plus, Buffy S8, ffs! Yay new projects! :-)
billz | March 05, 04:16 CET
An unbeliever ! An unbeliever ! Quick everyone, attack ! ;-)
I don't think asking the question was rude though the way it was asked might well have been. It wasn't related to the panel but it was related to Joel Silver and as billz says, it's not like it was in a restaurant at his kid's birthday party, it was a genre convention (if things had been going great with WW and someone had asked about it, i'm sure he would have taken the opportunity to promote the movie rather than saying "Sorry, that's off-topic", it only seems a bit off because the question was an awkward one).
Re: disinterest in 'Wonder Woman' due to Joss leaving, well, if you weren't interested in WW before Joss then that attitude seems completely understandable, refusing to see it because you somehow "know" it's going to be rubbish seems a bit less so IMO.
I'd imagine we all agree Joss is a very talented bloke but there are other people out there that can write a great film, even one that looks at feminist issues in an intelligent way (though to me getting that from a big Summer movie always seemed too good to be true anyway). And resenting Joel Silver because a professional arrangement fell through seems a bit daft IMO especially considering it apparently ended amicably. Each to their own of course.
Saje | March 05, 06:18 CET
I'll just wait for Goners. Writers always seem to do better with their own creations anyway... go figure.
war_machine | March 05, 08:09 CET
daylight | March 05, 09:43 CET
Lioness | March 05, 10:21 CET
"I'm sorry, but I think it's totally tacky and rude to put Joel Silver on the spot like that"
I wasn't there so I can't really judge the tone, but from the description it didn't sound particularly rude, and I certainly don't think that it's "tacky and rude" just to ask. Being "put on the spot" is part of the job of a studio executive in my opinion.
However from the same article I can hardly believe how rude the questioner was to Ali Larter. How utterly inappropriate!
Ali Larter's character is not my favorite either, I don't think she is supposed to be, but I would still never tell an ACTOR that I think she should be killed off/fired. Geeez! And in a room full of fans! Way to make actors think long and hard before going to a convention.
And as far as Wonder Woman goes I think it utterly sucks that Joss wasted four years of his time and creativity, but hopefully he got paid, and I'm reasonably sure he'll be able to put some of his Wonder Woman ideas to use in another female empowerment project. I just wish he could have used that time and creativity to push harder for the Spike movie instead. But that's just me.
Xane | March 05, 14:04 CET
Wonder Woman movie has been floating around for at least 9 years now. I would much rather Joss not be involved if the studio didn't like his idea. As, ultimately, that way lies the director arguing with the studio, which isn't quite the same as TV land where the creator usually wins -- in movie land, you will probably get squished. The only person allowed to squish Joss is his wife.
gossi | March 05, 15:59 CET
tinktanker | March 05, 16:03 CET
QuoterGal | March 05, 16:11 CET
Rogue Slayer | March 05, 17:23 CET
gossi | March 05, 17:38 CET
I personally lost interest in the WW project when I heard that Cathy Rigby wasn't even being considered for the role. ;-)
OzLady | March 05, 17:46 CET
daylight | March 05, 18:45 CET
Yes, she's the only top-drawer female superhero with any claim to iconic status. Yes, it would be nice if she was any good. But really, you've got to be terribly forgiving to take Wonder Woman seriously - or willing to reinvent her from scratch.
More to the point, the rest of the world couldn't care less about her. As a character concept, she means nothing to the general public who are supposedly going to see her film.. All the public know about her [is that] Linda Carter used to go twirly-twirl, around 30 years ago. Wonder Woman is just nostalgic camp. Trying to sell her to the general public as a serious character is, at best, an uphill struggle.. Wonder Woman is... what? A garbled collection of mythological imagery, unfocussed patriotism, Readers Digest-level psychology, and "only girl in the clubhouse" novelty value. I just don't see the potential.
The comments section of the blog features this analysis:
robocod | March 05, 19:07 CET
embers | March 05, 19:50 CET
I am interested in the movie now, but in a fairly dark way. I'd prefer to see it crash and burn, in the probably vain hope that the studios might get it, to some tiny degree, and realize what they could have had. And then shovel over a bunch of money to Joss for whatever, heh.
Ocular | March 05, 20:52 CET
Kris | March 06, 02:20 CET
Madhatter | March 06, 02:46 CET
Well I think the blogger's point is partly that if you're trying to write a fully rounded, serious female character you're off to a bad start when she's dressed like a 14 year old boy's fantasy.
Then there's the flag issue etc. (at least Superman's 'S' shield is explained - in various ways depending on continuity - as being from his home planet. Also, his costume has the added advantage that his 'bits' are unlikely to fall out when he gets in a fight ;).
But yeah, it's a fair point, any costume largely composed of primary colours is gonna be a hard sell today (which is why the X-Men didn't go the 'yellow spandex' route) and that's part of the challenge for a lot of superhero movies.
Saje | March 06, 04:26 CET
Furthermore, she is a very American figure, with the US colours on her costume etc, and seeing as Mr Bush has soiled much of US reputation in the rest of the world, maybe it's a tough sell?
Lucidmind | March 06, 04:45 CET
The lost time is a shame, but I have a growing feeling that Joss is well out of this project.
Looking forward to hearing more about Goners.
Shey | March 06, 04:56 CET
Madhatter | March 06, 05:03 CET
Madhatter | March 06, 05:11 CET
(I honestly don't think Superman's bits are likely to fall out in a fight if that's what you mean ;)
Saje | March 06, 05:30 CET
Second, as for WW being a tough sell; great, bring it on. What a great challenge for any film maker to do this material justice! I think Joss the boss was being honored with this chance. We don't know what happened to keep WW from coming to the screen- yet?- so it doesn't do any good to speculate on "what happened". I remember what David Milch said about studios not wanting to make a project because marketing said it was a tough sell. His response was, "Isn't it their job to sell it?" Film makers too, so you take the perceived weaknesses and turn them into strengths. Okay, WW looks like a 14 year old boy's fantasy, she's into light S&M, she's a pagan and a patriotic American. Not that there's anything wrong with any of that as they say on Seinfeld. What's not to love? I wasn't excited about seeing the film either other than Joss but upon reflection this could be awesome. What some of you may not know is that in the 70's DC tried to update WW but they got feedback from a variety of feminist writers such as Gloria Steinheim to bring the old WW back! They had grown up with her and the image so they didn't see a problem with it.
I'm just sayin' it's possible to make a great film here.
RazorBlade | March 06, 07:29 CET
Madhatter | March 06, 07:56 CET
And I know several pagans in cyber-space who are certainly also patriotic Americans. Pat'n'Jerry and That Ilk would deal with it by disbelieveing and moving on...the pc crowd woudl eb the ones who couldn't see how it'd be possible, I think.
DaddyCatALSO | March 07, 18:44 CET