Whedonesque : Comments on 12737 : Veronica Mars' future up in the air.

I was afraid that there were problems when the ended the current mystery last month. I have really loved this show, I own the first two seasons and I'll be buying the third. RIP dear Veronica Mars.

embers | March 16, 03:42 CET

damn.

aapac | March 16, 03:43 CET

My first thought is an obscenity. I find I can't really get beyond it.

swanjun | March 16, 03:44 CET

I was pretty sure this would happen but I was hoping it wouldn't.

Reddygirl | March 16, 03:54 CET

Isn't this the same Kristin who said Angel would get renewed for a 6th season? Don't believe anything until the news is official, guys.

electricspacegirl | March 16, 03:55 CET

Nooo!! *Sigh,* at least it got more of a chance than Firefly ever did.

sorethumb | March 16, 04:06 CET

Not surprised. Not happy.

TamaraC | March 16, 04:10 CET

Goodbye, Veronica. You were great television for two seasons.

crossoverman | March 16, 04:11 CET

I'm kind of relieved. This season was not very good, and considering Rob's plans for the future, I wasn't optimistic about next season.

To paraphrase Bogie:

"We'll always have seasons 1 and 2."

*sniff*

UnpluggedCrazy | March 16, 04:13 CET

Bastages! Poor Veronica has been Fux'd!! No doubt to make way for another singing reality show :^( And just as I was getting into this show too.
Just gives more fodder for the folks with those bumper stickers that say "KILL YOUR TV"

[ edited by jperiodrperiod on 2007-03-16 04:26 ]

jperiodrperiod | March 16, 04:14 CET

OMGGGG. :( Oh well, maybe it's for the best considering the quality lately. But it better have a good ending!

fortunateizzi | March 16, 04:17 CET

The one thing I hate is that they didn't have enough warning to make a final, final episode that would maybe give fans a little closure. There are only four more self-contained episodes left...I wonder if it'll end on a cliffhanger.

[ edited by holycow on 2007-03-16 04:20 ]

holycow | March 16, 04:19 CET

This makes me really sad, not Angel sad, but still sad. Even though this is season isn't as good as the previous ones, it is still enjoyable. I wonder what Joss has to say about this, I started watching the show because of him.

kerribear | March 16, 04:32 CET

Meh, I loved the first two seasons, but this last season was just one long death rattle.

Noclaf | March 16, 04:33 CET

As a huge fan of the show from it's first season, I'm just incredibly upset and angered by this news. However, at the same time I'm torn because when you look at the ratings, the reviews, and the viewer response from this current season, it's understandable and I get why this is the ending result.

I'm going to miss this show to death but we have 2 incredibly powerful, amazing, smart, witty, brilliant seasons already on DVD and I know I'll be watching them over and over.

I really hope we can get something great for the finale. I don't know how locked the last episodes are, but I'd really like some closure and a positive, hopeful ending.

CloudyVisions | March 16, 04:34 CET

Meh. I have Galactica and Heroes. Life goes on.

Ryan-RB | March 16, 04:34 CET

*sigh* I don't think it's ever been as good as it was Season 1, but I'll miss it nonetheless.

Samantha | March 16, 04:40 CET

Well, if this is true, it will be the first time in 10 years that I didn’t have anything to watch on the WB/UPN/CW. Fitting end to the decade, I suppose.

Pliny | March 16, 04:47 CET

Well, I'm ambivalent. On one hand, I'm with those who feel like the show was going downhill creatively, so it ending now is a bit of mercy. On the other hand, I still held out some hope that Rob Thomas would find a way to get it back on track next season, now we'll never know.

And yeah, big bummer if they don't get a chance to wrap it all up in series finale style.

jam2 | March 16, 04:49 CET

I've watched every episode, from every season, multiple times. I'm still, personally, as entertained as ever, and it's the only show I make a point to see every week. If this these final five are it, then damn I'll be sorry to see Neptune go. You rock, V. I'll miss ya.

pat32082 | March 16, 04:50 CET

I agree. I think this season was really subpar and not as good as the first two. While I wish the quality would improve, if this were the last season, I wouldn't complain.

UnpluggedCrazy, what plans did Rob have for the future?

BlindHawkeyes | March 16, 04:51 CET

I don't believe it....

TwisTz | March 16, 04:56 CET

*pouts*

Arabchick | March 16, 04:58 CET

The title of this post is misleading. Veronica Mars has not been cancelled...yet. And why are we believing Kristin anyway? Sorry to repeat myself, but I'll believe it when it's official. These cancellation rumors circulate every year around this time anyway, or has everybody forgotten?

Oh well. I'll be quiet now.

electricspacegirl | March 16, 05:02 CET

I'm very sad, but I was expecting it. I wish everyone the best!! Kristen Bell is now free to play Melaka Fray. Who's with me on this?

Harmalicious | March 16, 05:04 CET

I'm with Harmalicious. Hell yeah!

TamaraC | March 16, 05:11 CET

Honestly, if the show gets renewed for a fourth season, I will be beyond surprised; I may be downright shocked.

I don't want to wish ill on the cast and crew, but I have been secretly hoping for the show to end. There have been glimmers of quality this season, but few and far between, with certain writing decisions just too frustrating for me to name. I'm sorry for, again, the cast and crew if the show isn't renewed, as well as those who are currently fans. But after a lackluster third year following two pretty brilliant ones, I'm not all that sad it's getting the axe.

WilliamTheB | March 16, 05:12 CET

Hrmph. I feared/knew this was going to happen, and I agree that this season has not been up to snuff compared to the past ones, but I still like the show a lot and still was hopeful it would continue. Heck, I'm still hopeful that ElectricSpaceGirl is right and that this is just a rumor.

(hopeful, but not betting any money on it...)

Septimus | March 16, 05:16 CET

I am hoping so much that it is just a rumor.There isnt really anything now to watch on tv, except battlestar and heroes.

Atleast we had the show this long, thats something, usually shows this good, go the way of Firefly and Wonderfalls, stupid networks.

feigenbaum7 | March 16, 05:22 CET

Septimus, it's a rumor until it's confirmed. So yeah, it's a rumor. *crawls back under a rock*

electricspacegirl | March 16, 05:23 CET

We all know it's all because the world has a shortage of Pussycat Dolls.

Or maybe it's because the world has too many Pussycat Dolls.

I guess I'll be reading more books.

Nebula1400 | March 16, 05:38 CET

This news makes me sad. I'll admit that I never felt VM lived up to the promise of its glorious first season, but it still has so many great things working for it. I think I'll miss Veronica and Keith most of all...

MindPieces | March 16, 05:55 CET

Well, you're right, ESG, it is still just a rumor (and from a historically gun-jumping source, no less), but I think the vibe in this thread reflects that not many would be surprised if/when it is confirmed. I think a Magic Eight Ball would say "Signs point to Yes."

ETA: Maybe the post subject should just end in a question mark for now (hmm, doesn't have the requisite "full stop" now).

[ edited by jam2 on 2007-03-16 06:17 ]

jam2 | March 16, 06:14 CET

Perhaps if this was a new experience for me I'd be a little more upset, but alas I've had so many of my favorite shows cancelled that I'm just too jaded for it to affect me much anymore.

That said, congrats to VM for lasting a full two-and-a-half seasons longer than the average show I love :\

[ edited by marpocky on 2007-03-16 06:15 ]

marpocky | March 16, 06:15 CET

Bell as Fray? That seems a little bizarre to me...

Any case, I'm bummed out since I only started watching it about four episodes ago and have gone back to watch the first season. I hate how these decent and these beloved but not sufficiently enough shows are always forced to end without the chance to satisfactorily conclude things. I mean even The OC and I suppose Alias got the slightest bit of warning to wrap things up.

That said, I'm holding out the possibility that the network might be willing to reshoot things to at least produce something that'd let them give the show an actual send off.

orangewaxlion | March 16, 06:15 CET

Kristin just updated her report, saying:

I just heard from Veronica mastermind and showrunner Rob Thomas, who tells me, "If we're cancelled, I certainly don't know about it."

Though Rob did not say anything further, inside sources at the CW have explained to me a more detailed version of the situation:

According to network insiders, the CW has not officially canceled Veronica Mars. However, they are currently considering a different format for the fourth season. That format would leap four years into the future and focus on Veronica Mars as an FBI agent. The rest of the cast, aside from Kristen Bell, is yet to be determined.

So bottom line: Veronica Mars could be: 1) spinning off into a new format, 2) returning in her college years or 3) getting canceled.

And let me just say, number 3 could be a very real possibility, so it is time to rally the troops before it's too late! If you care about Veronica Mars and want it to survive, please comment below with your name and message of support. (I will forward to the powers that be at the CW.) Then send your Save Veronica postcard or letter to:

Dawn Ostroff
President of Entertainment, The CW Television Network
4000 Warner Boulevard, Bldg 168
Burbank, CA 91522-0002
Los Angeles, CA 90025-6602

Nebula1400 | March 16, 06:19 CET

Here is the Holywood Reporter story on the possible season 4 format change.

If it pans out, I think it may be just the kick in the pants the show needs (if you can still consider it the same show).

jam2 | March 16, 06:26 CET

Weak ... totally weak

If this is indeed the end of the run, I hope the finale is a series finale and not a season finale as threatened... a little closure would be good.

[ edited by Ubqtous on 2007-03-16 06:32 ]

Ubqtous | March 16, 06:27 CET

If they're going to consider format changes, how about returning to the full-season arc format that was working for them the first two seasons?

theonetruebix | March 16, 06:27 CET

Ok I edited the title and description a bit since Kristin really has proven herself to be quite unreliable.

BlindHawkeyes | March 16, 06:29 CET

So bottom line: Veronica Mars could be: 1) spinning off into a new format, 2) returning in her college years or 3) getting canceled.

I vote for #1. That would be just the gutsy kind of storytelling I'd love to see. VM has so much potential to shine as much as it did in season one, and I'd really hate to see it go down without proving itself once again.

If they're going to consider format changes, how about returning to the full-season arc format that was working for them the first two seasons?

That, and making it more personal again for Veronica. Topping the Lily Kane murder mystery is tough, but still possible. I suggest bringing her mother back, and just when Veronica starts to trust her again, she finds Lianne murdered in an alley, leaving behind a trail of secrets. Well, If I wrote the show, anyway.

[ edited by ElectricSpaceGirl on 2007-03-16 06:45 ]

electricspacegirl | March 16, 06:33 CET

Well, an entirely new format would Rob the opportunity to hire some more Whedonverse actors. ;)

theonetruebix | March 16, 06:43 CET

Just add a couple of wigs and change FBI to CIA and you have "Alias." That would be cool.

Arabchick | March 16, 06:49 CET

Or you could have Veronica be an FBI agent who goes under cover as a high school student...

Nebula1400 | March 16, 07:01 CET

You know Veronica Mars is one show that would make sense to end on a cliff hanger IMO. As long as it's not Veronica or her dad in some kind of danger, but a crime happens that needs to be solved, it would be really appropriate, it's in her characters nature to get involved. It would be like saying, that's who she is, what she is about, of course she will get involved, her adventures will keep going even without us.

Odysseus | March 16, 07:01 CET

"Veronica Mars, Not Fade Away" =)

jam2 | March 16, 07:09 CET

I hate to say this, but there is no reason to keep VM around if it's going to continue running at it's current quality level. I above and beyond love seasons 1 and 2, but 3, for me, has proven to be nothing more than a disappointment :(. So if it's going to be renewed that's great, as long as there is something worth renewing.

As for the new plan, all i want to say is that it is impossible to be an FBI agent right out of college, I don't care if you intern there or not, you have to have two years of pratical work expreience. And lastly, criminology has little or almost nothing to do with profiling, Thank you haha. End rant.

ShadyLane | March 16, 07:12 CET

As for the new plan, all i want to say is that it is impossible to be an FBI agent right out of college,

The link to Hollywood Reporter shows that's not the idea. The idea is to jump ahead to her "studying at the FBI Academy".

theonetruebix | March 16, 07:16 CET

Veronica Mars, FBI Agent. Why do networks think they need to rid a show of its original idea to get more viewers? Just make another show instead of sullying the original.(then again, it worked for Angel..)

eddy | March 16, 07:20 CET

It seems the drop in quality in S3 was largely a result of Rob Thomas having to make compromises with the CW execs. I preferred the season-long arcs. They were complex and kept us guessing and there was focus to the series. This season, the stories were rushed and choppy, and the depiction of college life was nowhere near what college is actually like. The show seemed to be dumbed down to try to draw in more viewers. If they want Veronica to dress up like a Pussycat Doll, it will be time to throw out the TV (except then I'll miss "Heroes," so it's just time to turn off the TV).

Nebula1400 | March 16, 07:29 CET

The only problem I've had with the current season is that the show doesn't have enough money to have all the main cast members in enough episodes. I really liked the mysteries this season (especially the controversial rape case), and I think that even a whole season of self-contained Veronica Mars episodes would be awesome. Sure, I like more serialized shows, but I already love the characters so as long as they keep writing them well, I'm there if the show comes back next season. Please let it come back!

electricspacegirl | March 16, 07:34 CET

'Member how our lovely (and late) Sheriff Lamb said he could tell us stories?

"There is so much truth in many of your posts...you have no idea. I wish I could expound."
Michael Muhney | January 31, 09:45 CET

Um, I know there's an Actor's Code that must be adhered to if you want to keep working in this town, but... well, he's dead to the Marsiverse, so, well, um... I'm just saying, I wish he could expound, now...

*flutters eyelashes at the (late) Sheriff and looks up expectantly*

Ah, hell, fair or not, I think I'll just go ahead and blame Joel Silver for this...

I so second and third the bringing back of seasonal arcs and the reversing of (what felt like) the dumbing-down trend.

Oh, crap, even though I think S1>S2>S3, I still believe that the least of Veronica Mars beats most of the rest of TV. 'Cause Veronica got game and there's just not that much out there...

I smell bread...

QuoterGal | March 16, 07:53 CET

Arabchick, that was my first thought.

Nebula1400, wasn't that the original premise of The Inside?

TamaraC | March 16, 07:55 CET

There's always "Veronica Mars: Season 4... coming soon to your local comic book retailer". ;)

theonetruebix | March 16, 08:11 CET

I've edited the subject line to reflect the new info from Kristin (my other crush) as there still seems to be some slight confusion and added a link to the Hollywood Reporter article as well.

Simon | March 16, 08:25 CET

I was just re-reading "The Man Who..." detective series this afternoon and kept thinking of Veronica Mars in relation to the character Ginny Fistoulari. Ginny would hire Veronica in a heartbeat. I would pay dearly to see or read that!

napua | March 16, 08:34 CET

It's weirdly in vogue again to have weird time jumps in TV series. (Alias and Battlestar being two notable examples.) That said, I can kind of see why they'd consider it for Veronica Mars since I imagine that maintaining drama of college for three more years and staying wholly fresh might be difficult. Also considering how she wrangled herself into a TA gig during her freshman year...

I'm curious exactly how desperate they are to be able to keep the show on the air, or if they already had some loose plans in mind and are just pushing them far forward. I think this show is utterly bizarre in how they seem to have so many good bit players but not too many opportunites to use them. (Particularly people in the credits. It seems like that'd get costly to have such a big cast in them.)

orangewaxlion | March 16, 08:55 CET

I adored season 1 of VM, but I have to admit I'm not that upset with this news. I stopped watching early this season. I felt like it had become a completely inane drama.

I also really hated how they ended season 2 with such a delicious and interesting cliffhanger that really could have made for a very dramatic season 3, and then they did nothing with it.

Celluloid Novelist | March 16, 09:08 CET

The format change could work I suppose, but they'd have to keep some of the characters, definitely Keith and Logan, probably Mac and Wallace.

It could be interesting, and I'd take format changed Veronica over no Veronica any day, but they'd have to be really clever about it.

Ghost Spike | March 16, 09:13 CET

I dunno, imagine if Joss had suddenly jumped from the end of season 3 to where Buffy is at the moment in the season 8 comic books. Half the fun with any good show is the journey.

Simon | March 16, 10:27 CET

I'm not really into the idea of jumping 4 years.

That's alot of missing character development... but if it has to be done they need to keep Keith and Logan.

TwisTz | March 16, 10:28 CET

Ooh, this time-jump is the only hopeful bit of VM news I've heard in a while. I mean, a chance for the show to reinvent itself just now would be perfect - this season has been not so great, but we know what the show's capable of doing. With a jump, they wouldn't have to dig themselves out of any holes, they could just try again with something close to a fresh start, and maybe get it right once more.

As for the other two options, all I know is that I don't want it to end on a lame season finale that wasn't meant to be conclusive. So I don't want it to be summarily canceled, but I also don't really want it to keep puttering along like it has been. I don't know, I really hope the time-jump idea is given a chance.

omnie | March 16, 10:48 CET

We all know it's all because the world has a shortage of Pussycat Dolls.

Are they like Cabbage Patch Kids ?

I actually really welcome the format change if it happens, in fact, I think i'd rather have that than a 'normal' 4th season. Changing things this way is exactly what kept Angel so fresh for 5 years, it's ballsy and it puts Veronica way out of her element and into the Big Bad (world that is ;) which has a lot of potential. E.g. imagine a Veronica who's a shadow of her former self, someone who's really been battered by the last four years and then imagine a season of finding out why and watching her get back on top. That'd be one hell of a "Yesss!" moment ;).

If they can find a way to at least keep Mac and Keith then I can deal (I like Wallace a whole lot but, to be honest, he's been in this season so little I already think of him as gone from the show anyway and Logan, well, that kind of sturm und drang is not really something you take to adulthood with you - see: Summers, Buffy Anne - much as I often enjoy the character).

Saje | March 16, 10:54 CET

Um...I suppose the four-year jump could work, but...well, I mean, so could the shorter arcs, and that didn't so much happen.

This season still has things that make it worth watching--I'd say that Mac and, somewhat surprisingly, Dick steal every single scene they are in--but it's still almost painful for me to do so sometimes. The character development is gone. Yes, it's harder to do character development when the characters aren't in every episode, but I think it's more than that. The emotion is gone. The first half of the season concerned a rape plotline; all three of the female cast members had at some point been sexually traumatized, and somehow I never felt any kind of resonance of the plotline with our main characters. The Dean is murdered and it takes many episodes for Veronica to even start to care. And the Veronica/Logan plotline was so bizarrely handled I don't quite know what to say. Logan breaks up with her for genuine, interesting reasons, then they get back together after hiatus, sweeping all of Logan's complaints against her under the rug just so that she can break up with him, all full of righteous indignation because of who he slept with when they were apart?

Seriously, don't get me started. :P

WilliamTheB | March 16, 12:14 CET

Hm, is season 3 Buffy to season 8 really an apt comparison? Cos in any case I think this was kind of demonstrated in Buffy anyway. They sort of ran out of college stories or lost interest in them and pretty much wholly dropped it with everything else going on in season five. (Which took the chance to explore families, now that there actually was one). From there it skipped ahead to everyday domestics without parental guidance and in season seven it was effectively turning back time but experiencing things from the other side. (Buffy going from student to counselor, slayer to watcher/leader, etc.) Even though Willow was built on studying at most we got a cursory nod to her trying to attend classes again in season seven.

Veronica Mars on the other hand, I've gotten the impression is a bit more dependent on concrete social experiences and interactions with people within any given environment so it really doesn't seem like they have very many choices for changing direction until Veronica graduates or drops out. (I've seen exactly one season two episode, so I don't really know how her senior year was set apart from season one other than in terms of the seasonal mystery.)

Plus in the case of Alias, BSG, and Lost, we get plenty of flashbacks to the lost time to find out what happened or how it connects to what's happening "now." From what I've seen so far, Veronica Mars did that too for a lot of the early Lily backstory so it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary?

orangewaxlion | March 16, 12:23 CET

I think the format change (if it happens) could go either way. It could be the kind of bold, interesting move Saje anticipates (which, of course, would be great, and perhaps just what VM needs, at this point). Or, it could be that the plan is to keep the the fans of the show and a character or two, and slide them into an ordinary procedural that the suits think more people will watch. (Why boring me stiff is a necessary byproduct of the accepted success formula I will never fathom. Clearly many people are entertained by the "reality" programming that I, despite a huge tolerance for and enjoyment of pure junk, find deadly dull. So I know I can't use my response to predict much about a general audience.)
I agree with WilliamThe B that Mac and Dick have been the scene stealers this season.

[ edited by toast on 2007-03-16 12:45 ]

toast | March 16, 12:42 CET

As a loyal fan of the show, I will certainly say that Season 3 has had its annoying moments...but said moments certainly don't make me a non-fan. *sigh* TV's not perfect. Heck, Buffy had its annoying moments, as well...didn't make me stop watching.

Between the former VM fans rooting for the death of the show and the former Lost fans heckling that show...I'm wondering just how many fickle fans are out there.

VM is *still* smarter than a lot of the programming out there. I will be infuriated if it is cancelled. Not to mention that many of this Kristen's "rumours" tend to be total bunk. Then again...this time she'll be right b/c that's the way things seem to be going these days.

Gah. *crosses fingers and hopes for the best*

ctofine | March 16, 13:01 CET

I've felt for some time that Veronica and her gang were very unconvincing as Freshmen, so I could see the jump working. But not if it meant losing that wonderful Keith Veronica relationship. And I wouldn't want Logan to be like the Logan in Gilmore Girls - a rich slacker trying to decide what to do with his life.

Lioness | March 16, 13:24 CET

Hmm. The format change is an intriguing idea. For some reason (and I don't really understand it) high school shows work really well and adult dramas work really well, but college shows kind of don't. It may be because college feels like a hiatus from the real world and from real issues, while high school feels (in retrospect) like a concentrated/crystallized version of the real world (or perhaps because high school IS the ur-scene of social interaction after which we pattern all of our real world social interactions).

Anyway, turning VM entirely into a procedural would be a bad idea, although there ARE good procedurals out there (I still like CSI, for example), as would ditching the majority of the characters. On the other hand, the chance to jump V's character forward significantly and then allow us to piece together what has happened in the meantime to make here the way she is would be the opportunity for some pretty strong storytelling. Frankly, I think they should go for it. Keep VM on the air but change it radically in some way. Sure, it's risky and could flop, but churning out a tired, college-based drama, well... meh.

Couldn't Veronica join an illegal, cross-country road-race?

Septimus | March 16, 13:39 CET

Interesting point about college shows, Septimus. It could be that it is partly because they are a bit like living in a college community. There are no old people, few adults, few children around.-a narrower range of humanity than some other settings. You have to reach to get them in the stories. Hence, a narrower range of life situations (though perhaps more exposure to different cultures) than elsewhere.

The main characters in a college setting have extraordinary opportunities and fewer responsibilities than they do at other times in their lives. It's really interesting for them, being there, not so much for everyone else to watch.

[ edited by toast on 2007-03-16 15:24 ]

toast | March 16, 14:02 CET

Hmm. This possible turn doesn't surprise me. Rob said a long time ago he wanted to see Veronica at the FBI, so obviously, he's got some ideas. I'm very, very intrigued. Especially because Veronica's wanted out of Neptune for years, so it'll be interesting to see.

pat32082 | March 16, 14:18 CET

For it to just jump four years into the future is something pretty risky. While I would love for a new type of format that would hopefully bring in more viewers, I would just not want the integrity of the show to be lost. It's done so much of that this season with Lamb being killed off and Keith made sheriff, that it just seems as though everything she has struggled with in the past is being magically handed to her.

If a jump is made (ala Alias S2-S3), it just wouldn't feel right. I guess I'd have to see Rob's pilot before I made any judgements.

BlindHawkeyes | March 16, 14:35 CET

If the show gets canned, I wonder what the likelihood of this S4 pilot being included as an extra on the S3 DVD release would be.

karosurly | March 16, 15:37 CET

Kristin from E! -- previous stories:

- Angel has been picked up by NBC for 6th season!
- Firefly series returning to CW!

She was wrong those times. Both times she was plain misinformed.

I know nothing about the situation, other than Rob is still developing a potential S4. It's possible the network hasn't told Rob the full story, but I'd take this with a pinch of salt.

gossi | March 16, 15:45 CET

VM works when the mystery is personal to Veronica. In S1, it was avenging Lily, and S2 Veronica was driven by survivor's guilt to solve the bus crash. If there is a S4, someone she cares about needs to be involved. As someone said earlier in the thread, a good option would be to kill her Mom, so none of the characters I like actually go. :D (RIP Lamb.)

Dead Mom would create all kinds of Veronica and Keith drama and interaction. The next best option for storytelling - kill Wallace or Logan and have either 'haunt' her the way Lilly did in S1 and use flashbacks to learn some secrets. They might as well kill Wallace as he's been hardly in the show in s3 and maybe dead at least we'd see him in her dreams.

Working as an FBI intern could drive the 'mystery of the week' but that setup is not going to drive story that affects Veronica personally either. The rapes this year were supposed to connect to Veronica personally and they didn't (imho).

Finally, wishlist - if there is a S4 jump ahead, bring the smokin' hot football player who lost the playbook back as a worthy challenger to LoVe.

-- Wendy

rosewood | March 16, 16:07 CET

Okay, if the show is going to jump ahead four years and have Veronica in the FBI or at FBI Academy...END IT. END IT NOW.

I hate to be over-the-top, but I'd rather it go on the chopping block than get castrated. Neither option is pretty, but what are you gonna do?

[ edited by UnpluggedCrazy on 2007-03-16 16:12 ]

UnpluggedCrazy | March 16, 16:11 CET

>Um, I know there's an Actor's Code that must be adhered to if you want to keep working in this town,

Yeah, they're called NDA's.

I've only seen a few episodes a while ago of the show and it just wasn't interesting to me.

leiasky | March 16, 16:11 CET

I dunno, I kind of like the idea of VM at FBI camp. Especially since Rob Thomas has said previously that if he could, he would continue the series into season seven with just this premise. This would just be skipping ahead a few years because they probably couldn't slog it out that long. Then there's the flat out "balls" factor that I really appreciate about risky moves like that. It would have the added benefit of making the role a little more age-appropriate for Kristen Bell, who is about six years older than her character right now.

I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this one.

Resolute | March 16, 16:12 CET

This is a weird coincidence. The other day I was thinking somewhere down the line it would be interesting to do a different Veronica Mars series with her as an FBI agent. So while I guess jumping to that isn't the ideal destiny for the show as we know it now, I must admit I'm intrigued by the idea. I hope they keep Keith at least. It would be good if Mac could stay. I like Logan but where can they go with this relationship? It's bit like the conclusion Joss and Co. came to as Buffy S3 was ending--it's time to have these two go their seperate ways.

batmarlowe | March 16, 16:33 CET

I think Veronica Mars is the best show on television right now. Why aren't people watching it???? I hope The CW gives it another chance.

danielgm86 | March 16, 16:43 CET

I know this is Rob's baby and all, but I don't like the whole FBI idea. One of Veronica's charms is how she manages to finagle information during the course of an investigation. But if she had a badge, she wouldn't need to finagle any more. Doors open, people talk, information is revealed, records are subpoenaed, access is granted. I'd much rather see Veronica's further adventures as a full-time P.I., in league with her dad.

ETA: Okay, I forgot Keith was sheriff now (he still is, right? I haven't yet seen the most recent episode.) So maybe not working side-by-side with him in Mars Investigations, if he's still sheriff in the future, but definitely with him still in the series.

[ edited by melanie on 2007-03-16 16:54 ]

melanie | March 16, 16:51 CET

Well, this is sad. I think this is one of the better shows on tv. And I think the CW tried to make too many changes at once.
Reminds me of what happened to this guy we kinda know....

jenofthejungle | March 16, 18:56 CET

I love the idea of jumping ahead, and I think Veronica Mars would benefit from it. Honestly, my friends and I predicted long ago that she would eventually end up working with the FBI...permitted the show survived long enough. My ultimate wish for this show...shrink it to a thirty-minute format, *but* put it on Showtime (so, no commercials). I'd love to see Veronica in the same type of format as Weeds (a brilliant Showtime show), and I'd love it if she did some cussin'! Of course, that kind of thing never happens because the world isn't as smart as we (as in YOU and I) are. I threw that whole pitch at one of my friends, and she said that I sound like I'm in denial, and that I should be prepared to say gooodbye to Ms. Mars. Bah! I love this show more than most, so I'm looking on the bright side until there isn't one.

Eason | March 16, 19:04 CET

I agree with everybody about the unreliability of Kristin's sources, but I hope the time-jump thing is true. It could work. I still love the show, but I don't think college is the best setting for it, for reasons people have stated well above. And worse, I can't see the CW approving another season of Hearst-VM.

The FBI academy could be a very interesting context for the character of Veronica. She's ambitious, and the FBI represents the highest level of criminal investigation, so that would be attractive to her. But it's also a rigid institution whose ideology she might not find very congenial. Plus there's her frequent sympathy for (fellow) lawbreakers. I'd be very interested in seeing a season-long "Veronica's adventures as she gives it her best shot, but ultimately flunks out of the FBI Academy" arc.

dreamlogic | March 16, 19:21 CET

Even if Kristin isn't highly reliable, I'm heartened by the news that there are possible ways that "Veronica Mars" might get picked up for another year even in a new guise. Sure it could totally jump the shark with the new premise, but then again it might work. I agree with several comments that Kristen Bell is starting to look more her age (mid-20s) than VM's age (19?) - and so are some of her "classmates" (Dick, the feminist activists on campus, etc.). In a way, this is really a move towards a show that is more Kristin Bell oriented than just around the original character, and given her apparent talent that's a good thing. Whether it will work in the end is a factor of the writing, what the network will allow the creators to do, the new cast, etc.

Besides, it seemed like the FBI was always part of a longer term plan for the show - the Criminology Prof was pushing her towards an internship for much of Season 3 (until he was arrested that is).

As for the show as a whole, sure Season 1 was the best. But I've honestly enjoyed parts of S3 over S2 - I thought that Season 2 was pretty muddied and convoluted, particularly the ending. I'm willing to give S4 a chance, with a new format or not. In the end I'll be buying S3 and hopefully S4+ dvds to join the ones I've already got.

Kyrax | March 16, 20:04 CET

Nebula1400, wasn't that the original premise of The Inside?

Yes, it was, TamaraC. I was wondering if anyone got that! ;-)

Nebula1400 | March 16, 21:16 CET

Man, I have to say that I'm amazed at the way people are harshin' on the current season of this show... I'll be the first to admit that I've noticed the occasional plot-hole (but, let's be real here, that's happened in all three seasons), and it bothers me a little bit that they've under-used all of the secondary characters besides Keith and Logan, but it's still damn fine television.

...Perhaps if everyone declares very loudly that they didn't like it anymore, it makes it easier when it goes away?

In any case.... I'd take Veronica Mars at the FBI academy in a heart-beat. I think the only truly daft thing they could do is lose Keith Mars as a character.

...Even if that did happen, though, I'd probably *still* keep watching.

Anyways, I'll be checking TV rumor sites obsessively until something is announced. Should be ~~nerve-wracking~~ fun.

unsquare | March 17, 00:11 CET

I posted this in the thread about Joss influence on TV...and I am posting it again here.... because it doesn't surprise me that a show like VM would get cancelled.... it doesn't fit into the current spate of snarky crap on the tube.

TV, right now, is in a bad place.
And I don't necessarily mean in quality.
I mean bad as in mean and bitchy.

From reality shows that show nothing but the worst behavior in people (New York Love, Simon Cowell..etc) to quality TV shows that are obsessed with portraying how low people will sink (DIRT, The Shield..and the Sarah Silverman show), we are really at a new low.

I'm no prude kids... I love John Waters... but what I'm seeing on TV is a country reveling in self-loathing.... maybe it's from political malaise...maybe it's from being involved in a war under false pretenses AND still trying to defend it...maybe it's leftover fin de siècle ennui...maybe it's just stupidity....but the current dark, mean, nastiness makes me pine for Whedon's optimism.

Never mind the carefully planned arcs, never mind the genre-bending, never mind the complexity...all those things were awesome... but the life affirming optimism behind so much of Whedon's work is inspiring.

Joss' work is so clearly humanist and existentialist without being preachy. And THAT is why it stood apart.

In these times full of fundamentalist (pick your freakin' religion/ideology) fervor, so certain of it's mission, faith and selfhood its a true gift to see someone say, "I don't know... I don't know...There is no endgame...I'm not sure and that's good..."

Instead, today's TV is giving us an almost medieval darkness that echoes orthodox Christian identity and eschatology-- "We are doomed to depravity...These are the end times..."

Fuck that

[ edited by hbojorquez on 2007-03-17 01:38 ]

hbojo | March 17, 01:37 CET

Oh dear, hbojorquez, I adore 'Dirt' and 'Sarah Silverman', and I always love Veronica Mars best when she is at rock bottom and getting snarky. In my opinion one of the weaknesses of this season (as it was in part of the 2nd season) is that life has been a little too easy. In Veronica's first and best season she had lost everything and was surviving mostly on her bitter desire for revenge. But of course I would still take happy successful Veronica over no Veronica at all!

embers | March 17, 01:57 CET

embers...
Dirt and Sarah Silverman are relatively well done...certainly above the kind of crap I grew up with in the 80s... I'm not dogging the "quality" of the shows... They are well written and well executed (although I can see Sara's snarkiness coming a mile away...I'm happy for her though-- she's been at the backseat too long)...
but it's the tone that is beginning to wear on me..

hbojo | March 17, 02:12 CET

VM, cancelled or "retooled"? This bites, and not in the vampire good kinda way. This show is the smartest on TV right now. I just don't understand the decision makers in 'TV land.'

VaderDawsn | March 17, 02:31 CET

VaderDawsn, it really isn't the decision makers fault on this one. The fault rests solely with the lack of viewers. VM has never had even decent ratings and the fact that they have kept it this long is nothing short of a miracle.

TamaraC | March 17, 02:46 CET

True. I don't think (in this case) any of us can complain it hasn't been given a chance. And though there's been fairly heavy network interference it came at a time when the show was already suffering in the ratings (and many networks would've cancelled it).

...Perhaps if everyone declares very loudly that they didn't like it anymore, it makes it easier when it goes away?

Or maybe people just feel it's not as good as it was ? Criticism of season 3 (and season 2 to a lesser extent) is not a new thing, it's been seen on here and the .org since very early in the season (episode 4 or 5, earlier in some cases) largely based on the lack of over-arching mystery, plot-holes, inconsistent characterisation and missing regular cast members due to budget constraints. Seem like pretty good reasons to me.

Saje | March 17, 03:18 CET

Here's what may happen: We get a fourth season of Veronica Mars, after some rocky negotiations, with a drastically reduced budget (let's reuse those sets), and it's very episodic, to create a lower barrier to entry. Maybe a little more "up" in tone. They'll have a great party celebrating how well the show is doing ... and then news of the cancellation will appear right before Valentine's Day. Yeah, still bitter.

Ocular | March 17, 09:19 CET

March 16 2007