Whedonesque : Comments on 12937 : Who's the Strongest Woman Character?

I know that these polls are meaningless in the greater scheme of things, but right now, Wonder Woman is ahead of Buffy, 37% to 23%, so come on guys, lets make with the Buffy love.
She could *so* kick Wonder Woman's ass, while making all sorts of witty remarks about the costume :)

Shey | April 11, 06:44 CET

There was a momernt when I said, "But... Emma Peel's on there!"

*tiny sob*

But it passed, and Buffy it was. Her fight scenes were waaaay more action-y. Emma, though, was important to me as a young girl.

QuoterGal | April 11, 07:01 CET

If only this poll had been expanded to include sidekicks. Willow would have had my vote. ;)

Shiai | April 11, 07:06 CET

I voted for Buffy, but I was tempted to vote for Emma Peal, then after I voted I discovered that poor Emma Peal had only 3% of the vote! I should've voted for her.

embers | April 11, 07:13 CET

If it were simply the character of Wonder Woman, I could understand how she might be ahead. But in this poll it's specifically the T.V. show version of WW, in which case (IMHO) it's no contest--it's Buffy all the way!

But I too am large with the Emma Peel love. She was the first female fictional character I noticed was just as capable as the guys. It was a few years ago when I discovered just how much I was into Buffy when I realized she topped Dr. Peel as my all-time female fictional character.

batmarlowe | April 11, 07:18 CET

Rosie O'Donnell? You have got to be kidding me ... And with all the screaming, yelling, insults, and outing of people on The View, she's such a great role model too. Oops. Yes, Buffy, by far. I wish I remembered Emma Peel more than I do, but I didn't watch The Avengers much as a kid (love Diana Rigg though).

Tonya J | April 11, 07:24 CET

Hard to believe Wonder Woman is ahead...I'd think it would be clearly between Buffy and Xena.

Calledon | April 11, 07:48 CET

Well, I have a huge fondness for Modesty Blaise, if we're talking favorite female fictional characters who kick serious ass, but she's not on the list, not having been a TV icon - as she should have been, naturellement.

QuoterGal | April 11, 07:52 CET

As I type this, Buffy has pulled even with Wonder Woman at 32%...I'm still amazed that Xena is only at 18%.

Calledon | April 11, 08:20 CET

Dana Scully oughta be included there since they're talking TV action star, but strong women characters on TV? I've got a raft of 'em I could name.

Tonya J | April 11, 08:21 CET

Count me in on the surprised that Wonder Woman is ahead crowd. I've never seen a single episode of Xena but even I would have voted for her if Buffy wasn't there. Huh.

Xane | April 11, 08:41 CET

Well, Buffy's now at 34%, with WW on 31%...

deird | April 11, 09:07 CET

What, no Aunt Bee?

peacemonger | April 11, 09:17 CET

Buffy is at 36% and winning as it should be. :)
Never got into Xena. This was very easy for me but then Buffy is my favorite character of all time.

cheryl | April 11, 09:49 CET

Oh come on, no Nikita? She could take the Alias chick and all 3 Angels at once without breaking a sweat, that's for sure. Actually, I might argue she could take all of them, save Wonder Woman. Cuz it's just hard to beat supernatural abilities. And well, she'd just shoot Buffy before she got too close, so...

I know, the poll isn't who could beat up who...or is it? They say 'favorite', and they also mention 'best', which isn't necessarily the same thing!

Rogue Slayer | April 11, 10:10 CET

I totally overlooked Emma Peel. People who even know who Emma Peel was are incredibly old... She was my first dynamic female icon. I was only able to wear those skin-tight black numbers for brief periods of time in my life, though.

I voted for Buffy, though, because I've been rewatching the series this week... so I just have to...

Nebula1400 | April 11, 10:44 CET

"Why do you vote for such strong female characters?"

The One True b!X | April 11, 11:53 CET

What about River Tam? What about Starbuck, from BSG? And Willow?

Okay, okay, voted for Buffy too. But if any of the above three had been on the list, it would have been tough! :-)

sandyg | April 11, 13:42 CET

Hah, LOL bix ;). Really glad you asked that question, I don't get asked it nearly enough ...

Well, knowing us and our 'organising' abilities I figured Buffy could take care of herself and voted for Emma Peel. Gotta remember the classics upon whose shoulders Buffy stands.

(Xena was another contender but, given the particular site the poll's on, I figured she'd also get a pretty decent showing ;)

Saje | April 11, 13:43 CET

Ah, Emma. We don't forget you.

toast | April 11, 13:52 CET

"Incedibly old"?! : )

batmarlowe | April 11, 17:28 CET

Rosie O'Donnell? She's not really a character, is she? I think I'd put River Tam or Samantha Carter on that list instead of her.

library hooligan | April 11, 18:08 CET

River is kick ass, but didn't show that until the movie...so technically NOT qualifying for this poll. Sorry.

fey_girl | April 11, 18:23 CET

I can't choose between Xena and Buffy. Glad to see Cagney and Lacey made the list too.

Zoe and Scully would both be on my list of awesome women who kick some ass.

Um, "before she married down to Ben Affleck"? Are they making a nasty statement about an actor's personal life, or is marrying down a combination of "marrying" and "settling down"? Really not cool if it's an insult.

Sunfire | April 11, 18:40 CET

I'd vote for Zoe or Starbuck over any of these girls...

I think the Ben Affleck jab is more about him being below her than anything else.

Green Queen | April 11, 18:58 CET

Emma Peel.

fishsanwitt | April 11, 19:23 CET

I was also torn between Buffy and Emma Peel. Then, in mind's eye, I saw Buffy laid back on that tombstone explaining her life problems to Holden in 'Conversations with Dead People' and that swung my vote. Yep, still smitten by our little vampire slayer.

Madhatter | April 11, 19:35 CET

Well, we can all rest easy: Buffy is now ahead by a significant margin, with WW coming in a ways behind. Another poll whedonesque'd into oblivion!

Resolute | April 11, 19:44 CET

Now i'm waiting for the BBC news story about how short, blonde, female superheroes have shot up the Amazon sales charts ;).

Saje | April 11, 19:54 CET

Where is the Laverne Defazio camp???

C'mon, you know you want to put a big L on all your shirts to show solidarity.

alexreager | April 11, 20:25 CET

Buffy now over 50%, the power of Whedonesque shows itself once again...lol! I agree that there were many others who should have been listed, the Halliwell sisters, Nikita, Willow, Faith, Cordy, Gabrielle...many more. Buffy deserves to be #1 imo, but I do think Xena has to be #2.

Calledon | April 11, 20:32 CET

Nebula1400: "People who even know who Emma Peel was are incredibly old..."

Old!!! Why, how dare you! The nerve! I've never been so insulted in all my born days!

*waves cane about while leaning heavily on walker.*

You wouldn't feel so free to talk like that if you thought I could get up out of my wheelchair, you... consarned whippersnapper!

Seriously, though... I was only about one or so when our Emma was on the air, but she still was mighty important to this growing toddler.

QuoterGal | April 11, 20:50 CET

Wow, I totally forgot about Nikita. It's been a long time since I saw that show. Good times.

Sunfire | April 11, 21:02 CET

Whether you love or hate Sarah Michelle Gellar as an actress, you can't deny that the syndicated gold mine that "Buffy" became was due mostly to Gellar's vast appeal.

While I greatly respect SMG's acting, which contributed an enormous amount to the show, I was under the impression that the show's vast appeal was due mostly to Joss Whedon's creativity and the writing overall.

barboo | April 11, 21:19 CET

Certainly Buffy's success is due to the Master but I agree that Sarah became Buffy and, to me at least, they are one!

Calledon | April 11, 21:23 CET

I had a major crush for Angie Dickinson (Policewoman) when I was a young lad. She's still a foxy lady in my eyes.

Madhatter | April 11, 21:32 CET

"People who even know who Emma Peel was are incredibly old..."

Although true, I am going to guess that those ~~of us~~ who were fans are also feisty, and I'll bet a lot of us them are now Buffy fans as well. This seems to be proven out by the fact that the Emma Peel figures rose right along with the Buffy figures, dagnabit. So be careful of the cane brigade.

(It would be so cool if when the potentials were activated, they were all activated no matter what their age...though all older than a teenager would technically be former potentials as they had missed the age of opportunity for becoming a slayer. Still, I would love to see middle-aged and elderly slayers thrown into the mix, especially since the message that only young women have any value is everywhere in this society...and a woman's potential does not end in real life until the day she dies.)

When I saw this thread this morning at home, I also decided that Buffy would be okay without me, but that 3% was just unacceptable for the first cool woman I remember on TV, as well as the first strong woman I remember who did not use sex appeal as her formost defining characteristic. (Emma Peel was sexy, but it was as if she just was, not like she was working to crank it out all the time.) At the time I voted Buffy was well in the lead so Emma Peel it was. Yea, Buffy and Mrs. Peel.

[ edited by newcj on 2007-04-12 05:48 ]

newcj | April 11, 22:16 CET

I was under the impression that the show's vast appeal was due mostly to Joss Whedon's creativity and the writing overall.

Most of the people who watched wouldn't have known who Joss was.

Simon | April 11, 22:28 CET

I voted for Xena. Not only that, but I've also just alerted the entire Xena community as well. The Xenites are definately going to give Buffy a run for her money now!

SpikeBad | April 11, 23:19 CET

Most of the people who watched wouldn't have known who Joss was.

People don't have to recognize a writer/creator's name to be drawn to the writing. I didn't know who Joss was when I saw "Toy Story" but I recognized it as way beyond what I expected. If the actress playing Buffy hadn't been any good, it would have ruined the show, but if the show's appeal was just based on SMG, well there are lots of tv shows with beautiful, young women, some of them in much skimpier outfits, that never develop the kind of following that Buffy did.

barboo | April 11, 23:48 CET

If it was ever about the writing and Joss Whedon then Sports Night (oh how I wish Sports Night--and for that matter Studio 60 was still on the air--make no mistake though, though I love Aaron Sorkin, his success was dependent on the actors--not the writing), Freaks and Geaks, and Firefly would still be on the air. Sorry to say but you need a star to sell things, and SMG became a star.

I cant remember where or the exact quote, which I guess is a great way to start this sentence out, but I remember Joss Whedon saying something like "There was always this perception that is was Sarah and bunch of other actors, it was only the die-hards who knew that it was an ensemble show".

I actually voted in the poll for Emma Peel too though, she was quite the hero I must say.

jerryst3161 | April 12, 00:08 CET

Go ahead, SpikeBad. Competition is always good. However, I won't be laying any money on the Xena clan. The steely eyed slayer with Mr. Pointy against the steely eyed amazon princess with that razor sharp broadsword......(?) Damnit! Where's Willow when you need her?!!

Madhatter | April 12, 00:09 CET

newcj: Yup. What you said.
barboo. True about the writing and Joss, but SMG is a whole lot more than a beautiful girl in a skimpy outfit, too. She's a fine actress with a great range.

toast | April 12, 00:09 CET

It would be so cool if when the potentials were activated, they were all activated no matter what their age...

Yes, newcj, where are those older, recently activated slayers? I've been wondering just that. And would those newly acquired slayer healing powers fix the arthritis and the presbyopia?

I, too, have fond memories of Emma Peel. I guess that makes me ~~old~~ feisty. ;)

Bobbi | April 12, 00:19 CET

I'm gonna go out on another one of those limbs again and say that it was the magical combination of about a gajillion factors - actors, writing, directing, production - that made Buffy so outstanding - enough so that sufficient folks liked it and the PTB kept it on the air. And then its legend grew and scholars wrote about it and its cultural impact was increasingly significant.

The acting was ensemble, and I'd venture to say, though Joss would have clearly been the Boss - as was his job - the behind-the-scenes production probably had an ensemble quality to it, as well. The writing was generally wonderful, and for a TV show, the shows usually looked like little films.

Hard to - and not sure why we would need to - tease all of these factors apart and decide which ones were most important. And I'm not sure that we can.

What becomes a legend most?

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2007-04-11 23:48 ]

QuoterGal | April 12, 00:25 CET

QuoterGal; It's certainly true that there is no need to say which factors were most important, but it is fun to "tease them apart" and talk about them separately sometimes. Because they are all interesting in multiple ways.

toast | April 12, 01:01 CET

Seriously, though... I was only about one or so when our Emma was on the air, but she still was mighty important to this growing toddler.

QuoterGal: I was eight, so I shake my dentures at you and raise you a wheelchair!

I was also Wonder Woman when I was eight. And Catwoman. And Supergirl. And Honey West, because she had a pet ocelot.

Nebula1400 | April 12, 01:08 CET

I voted for Buffy, but I did hesitate as I'm one who is old enough to remember watching Diana Rigg as Emma Peel, one of my favourite shows at the time. However, my preference at this time of my life is Buffy.

samatwitch | April 12, 01:46 CET

@ toast: Oh, no, I didn't mean to imply I don't get or appreciate - nay, get involved - in endless discussion of the individual factors that made Buffy wonderful. This teasing apart for individual consideration is one of the backbones of whedonesque, I believe.

I was just pointing out what, to me, was the futility of trying to decide what factor was somehow objectively more important to whom - such as, the star mattered more than the rest of the actors to the audience, or the star mattered more than the writing, or the producer meant more than the writing + production = ratings, divided by four and carry the special effects.

Is all.

nebula, I was completely lying about the toddler thing - or having a senior moment, I can't remember, please pass me my pills.

I was actually six in 1961, when the series started running, so really, we're both of a certain age...

QuoterGal | April 12, 01:57 CET

You forgot to divide by 'network interference' QuoterGal, apart from that the equation looks pretty good. Then just add magic as required ;).

Saje | April 12, 02:18 CET

I was 10. And Emma/Diana was a grown up. Have you seen how amazing she still looks?

toast | April 12, 02:20 CET

Y'all know I LOVE BUFFY... and I LOVE JOSS...so it's a no brainer..
I've always had misgivings about SMG's acting abilities....BUT... she did the character justice....right body type...and she was very cute before she started getting too thin...she's still cute but I feel a little uncomfortable sometimes with her close to anorexic looks...

I miss Buffy tremendously...I'll get over it...he says THREE years later..

hbojo | April 12, 02:25 CET

I also was 6 in 1961...

Super-heros never did much for me, and the girls/women super heros always seemed diluted and weakened versions of Superman et al.

Honey West's ocelot was great. Interestingly enough, though I liked Honey West, it was she that was foremost on my mind when I mentioned how much I appreciated Emma Peel's sexuality not being her defining characteristic. Women like Honey West smoldered with sexuality, that was their main tool and how everyone was supposed to immediately identify them. Emma Peel was cool and confident enough not to have to make a point of her sexuality. As I think about it i realize that Emma Peel was like Illiya Kuriakin. He was casually cool. Napoleon Solo had to crank out the sexy, and as a result, I was not impressed. I wanted to be Illiya Kuriakin...but a girl. Emma Peel was as close as I remember seeing on TV.

newcj | April 12, 03:07 CET

In magic stories in books though, E. Nesbit, etc., the girls were often the heros, and saved the day by being brave and clever, which kind of left a girl with a good feeling about that sort of make-believe. Even though she was grown up and hip, and though fanciful, not magic- Emma Peel felt like one of those girls to the 10 year old me.

toast | April 12, 04:22 CET

Alice Bastable is still one of my heroes...

I liked Honey West - but mainly for the gadgets and the ocelot.

Frankly, I think all of the super-spy gadgets from the 60's is part of what makes boomers - like myself - such easy marks for today's current crop of high-tech super-small-or-portable technology.

And I still want a lipstick radio transmitter.

QuoterGal | April 12, 04:35 CET

It occurs to me, QuoterGal, in a fit of digression, that Oswald Bastable bears a resemblance to some Whedonverse guys. And he certainly loved to tell stories about himself..in the 3rd person.

toast | April 12, 04:46 CET

"I was just pointing out what, to me, was the futility of trying to decide what factor was somehow objectively more important to whom - such as, the star mattered more than the rest of the actors to the audience, or the star mattered more than the writing, or the producer meant more than the writing + production = ratings, divided by four and carry the special effects."

Yeah thats more what I was getting at than anything else, though I clearly should have been more explicit, I think saying it was just Joss or Sarah is incorrect in some way (kinda like Fury said a while back--without the writing of Joss nobody would have stayed and without SMG nobody would have come in the first place). In my mind, its just like a sports team. Most of the time its going to be like The Colts of this year, one big star with alot of great chemistry and some wonderful behind the scenes actions that keep it going, and every once in a while, its just a magical thing where all things come together. In that sense, Buffy and Alias are in one group with amazing chemistry, that one big star, and great behind the scenes things that keep the show going (as opposed to Dark Angel which had only the big star), and shows like Heroes and NCIS with just amazing chemistry and no break out star. Quotergal is much correct, I think it just has to come together sometimes, sometimes with the break out star and sometimes not, but for a show to "win the superbowl" it has to have that magic.

I'll stop with the sports metaphor now...

[ edited by jerryst3161 on 2007-04-12 05:30 ]

jerryst3161 | April 12, 08:28 CET

Well it turned out to be a slam-dunk, once we Buffy fanatics got it in gear. Buffy at 56% and all's well with the whedonverse.

Shey | April 12, 08:34 CET

April 11 2007