Well I have to disagree with his unlove for the first issue - I thought it was great. More excellence from the 2nd issue. I'm enjoying this so far more than seasons 6 and 7 lol

Also I don't think (as much as I would love it) that it is Angel that is reaching out to Buffy...or Spike...or anyone we know. I think it's the season's Big Bad. The image is just Joss messing with us:) (Also just to note - I dont want it to be Angel for any shippy reasons - just cos I wants me some more Angel!)

angeliclestat | April 11, 19:27 CET

I think i'm in the minority here but I actually thought there were more missteps in the dialogue in issue 2. The reviewer even quotes one from Andrew:

"From a friend I heard that"

which just doesn't strike me as a very Andrew thing to say (the almost Yiddish scrambling of Subject Verb Object into Object Subject Verb is very Joss though - not to mention Yoda ;) - just maybe more Xander or even Buffy than Andrew).

Also thought Giles' was a bit indistinct, not quite definitively Gilesian and there were one or two other pieces that just didn't quite sit right. The story definitely picked up but then you'd expect that since a lot of the setup was taken care of in #1.

Definitely more with the funny though, at least partly because there's just more dialogue full stop.

(and still a brilliant issue overall)

I'd also assumed there never was a plan for a season 8 since Joss seemed fairly sure they'd be stopping at 7 for quite a while before the end but if there was it wouldn't have had the 'effects' (or locations) in it that the comic has so far so that seems kind of moot.

Saje | April 11, 19:36 CET

He thinks that Andrew's straight? Has he ever watched an episode with Andrew in it?

ChosenGuy317 | April 11, 19:44 CET

Only that one on 'Angel' where he goes out arm in arm with the two gorgeous women apparently ;).

(which is kinda far from definitive proof either way IMO)

Saje | April 11, 19:56 CET

Maybe he watched "Damage"?

helcat | April 11, 19:58 CET

I think Saje got it just right about Issue #1. It was
set-up, but I didn't find anything boring about it. It would have been worse to have Joss strenuously working for humorous dialogue ("Gotta bring the funny, gotta bring the funny, they expect it of me"). Uh, no. To spare the neighbors, I didn't yell when familiar faces showed up in #2, but you can bet my eyes got very um, moist. Particularly in the last panel. What an homage of pure loveliness.

Or at least they're working together, but why do they want Buffy out of their way?

Yes, and why does fake (?) military guy have the mysterious symbol on his chest. Tune in next month ...

Tonya J | April 11, 20:48 CET

This issue felt a little choppy to me, like maybe the brief introductions of Giles and Andrew could have been cut so we could see more of the attacks at the castle. There are plenty of issues left to show us what they're doing with their own little slayer armies.

But I may just need to reread it. Still quite good.

flakbait | April 11, 20:58 CET

I think he's got it plain wrong about the corporation. I saw that as just a front for a secret military intelligence base.

dreamlogic | April 11, 21:00 CET

i love andrew.

that is all.

death is my gift | April 11, 21:03 CET

But remember, Andrew was throwing Angel & Spike through a loop, so what better way to throw them for a loop than to have him be straight and have hot women? ;)

ChosenGuy317 | April 11, 21:12 CET

Love the accidental Andrew/Jonathan switch.

Sunfire | April 11, 21:14 CET

Agree that it was a great issue(the first one was also great), altough i'm personaly still getting used to comics. It's not a format i'm very familiar with.
I hope that he's wrong about Buffy/Xander happening.

Vergil | April 11, 22:10 CET

Buffy&Xander4Evah!!!1! Somebody had to say it.

gossi | April 11, 22:28 CET

This line positively radiated Tom Lenk for me. I can hear him saying it in his trademark self-conscious, increasingly embarrassed way, as if he wanted to climb into a hole rather than finish the statement. Lenk/Andrew. Perfect. And on the whole, the dialog rang very true for each character. Really, about the only line that gave me very slight pause was Buffy's "see me after" when she was complimenting Satsu's hair. It made me think of Snyder (Graduation Day, Part II: "I saw that gesture. You see me after graduation.").

1starbuckstown | April 11, 22:28 CET

Ah yes, Andrew is straight because he went out on the town with a couple lovely and stylish women. Gay men never enjoy glamour, style and beauty...oh wait.

Although I felt there were some minor mis-steps in the dialogue voices, I felt like it was Joss getting back in the groove and it did not bother me too much. Buffy's "Oh balls" seemed strange, even in a dream and even though she has been away from home for a long time. Andrew's "From a friend I heard that" however, when I hear it in my head, sounds like Andrew because there is a stop in the middle with a little bit of a stutter as he goes to the second part, so mostly I guess it is in the ear of the beholder. ;-)

newcj | April 11, 22:46 CET

Really ? The sentiment is totally Andrew, the delivery ? Not so much IMO. I'm trying to remember a time he used that OSV style of speech in the show but it's not coming (Buffy did a couple of times though, Xander and possibly Willow too). Starting to look like just me then ;).

(maybe with an explicit pause and then the second part sotto voce it'd sound more Andrewesque to me but there wasn't and it wasn't)

I also think, BTW, that line of Buffy's was a completely deliberate nod to school and being a teacher only Buffy, unlike Snyder, is the kind of cool teacher that swaps hair tips after class. And instead of calculus she teaches 'Intro to Co-ordinated Attacks with Edged Weapons' ;).

It's weird (and cool) the way we all see stuff completely differently. I literally couldn't fault the dialogue in issue 1 (even 'Great Muppety Odin' sounded like the kind of thing Buffy might think if not necessarily say), pitch perfect IMO. Issue 2 was 'only' virtually perfect.

Saje | April 11, 22:56 CET

Balls. I dunno, Buffy has stopped short of saying fuck in at least one episode that I can think of (Season 6? Can't remember, but her mouth was on the F and forming the word. I think the dialogue was, "What the f--!"). It's just she couldn't complete that thought because of TV censors. Then there was the, "Willow! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?" (could have been Season 2) I don't think swearing shocks the Buffster. I kind of like that she thinks in a "salty" manner.

Tonya J | April 11, 23:04 CET

Totally agreeing with dreamlogic about the corporation being a front. I mean, it's a deserted recycling corporation out in some desert.

Also agreeing about issue #1 being mostly setup, and that needing to be taken into account when evaluating it.

I'm surprised he thought the dream-guy was Angel. His style of dress and physique seem very Spike to me. But I think it's Dracula, because he's talking about teaching Buffy things and the dream is all about her being afraid of her inner darkness, which Drac had been going on about.

(BTW, first post! Yay!)

blueanddollsome | April 12, 00:32 CET

Not to keep focusing on Andrew but my surprise wasn't so much about the straight thing as the following:

I mean, he's apparently straight, yet in being surrounded by a legion of hot women he seems to make nary a move for them.

Uh, wouldn't that be unprofessional? Granted Andrew's not exactly the poster boy for professionalism, but it's a strange thing to say given that Xander is equally surrounded by women, in fact present near a giant naked one, and as far as I can tell engages at best in some mild flirting with Renee.

It does, however raise the interesting issue of whether or not there are actually any "Watchers" in the traditional sense left in the organization or if the non-slayers have specific roles. Given that in Issue 1 Slayers are apparently manning the control center (something which non-superpowered people could easily do), I do wonder what the organizational structure actually looks like.

yourlibrarian | April 12, 01:11 CET

Anyone else think the person in Buffy's dream is a woman or is it just me?

Cute review. Just how old is the guy that wrote it, I wonder, because he reminds me of my teenage nephew.

deborahmm | April 12, 01:40 CET

"I don't think swearing shocks the Buffster. I kind of like that she thinks in a "salty" manner."

It is not the swearing, it is the choice of "Oh balls." It just did not seem like what Buffy would choose in the swearing department. That was always a Spike line. It just seems like Buffy would say something else...unless that is a clue. ;-)

newcj | April 12, 01:43 CET

Well, it was a dream. And she spent a lot of time with Spike. Ergo, her id was just processing random swear words probably. I thought it was funny, meself.

Tonya J | April 12, 01:53 CET

Bollocks. Is what Spike used to say, I mean ;). Anatomically the same, verbally different.

(though he may have also said 'balls' as well as 'wank' or 'wanker' a couple of times, maybe crap too)

Being as it's in her dream the balls are fine, anything goes in dreams, IMO it's basically impossible to say something out of character in that situation (and she's just come on to Xander FFS, which as far as we know is very out of character ;). In fact, given that it is a dream, it could even be a clue of some sort. I wouldn't be surprised if every word in there has some greater meaning (when Xander's head comes off he says "So, gentle." - note the unnecessary, even wrong, comma. I've no idea what it could mean but I bet it's something ;).

Dream person could be a woman, the art certainly suggests a man but not completely unambiguously. Joyce maybe ? She'd make sense as the sort of guide Buffy's subconscious might reach for.

Saje | April 12, 02:11 CET

Interesting. If "So, gentle" is a clue, what do we make of "This lint is so Scottish." ?? I mulled over that, well over that scene for about five minutes.

Tonya J | April 12, 02:21 CET

Tonya J, Buffy's line of "What the f-" was from Life Serial, when time started speeding up.

And Spike has used the phrase "Oh balls!" at least once, when Trina's body was found by the police in Dead Things.

*sits back and feels knowledgable*

deird | April 12, 02:39 CET

Deservedly so, that's some remembering right there deird, good job ;).

If "So, gentle" is a clue, what do we make of "This lint is so Scottish." ??

Yeah, I said in another thread I got as far as MacLint (or McLint) then got stuck. So turn left at the arse-end of nowhere and i'm about half a mile up the creek ;).

'This lint' is an anagram of 'hint list' but you can find lots of anagrams for it - 'shin tilt' ? ;) - and Mac means 'son of' which makes me think 'the son of an old enemy', when it's not making me think 'Cheese-man' i.e. seems meaningful but isn't. It does feel like a cryptic crossword clue though (and 'gentle' as in 'gentleman' can mean high-born or noble birth like Dracula for instance).

Saje | April 12, 03:00 CET

Oh sure, deird, be all astute and everything! (Damn kids, get off my lawn! Where's my cane?!) :P

Saje, it's a good start. If it's a prophetic dream, as she is prone to have, it could definitely have something to do with the cloaked figure soon after that scene (Dracula incognito as a Scottish Lord? MacDrac, Macula, "I've come, wearing my Mack of Darkness." Okay now I'm just being silly, someone stop me.

Tonya J | April 12, 03:09 CET

Ah yes, Andrew is straight because he went out on the town with a couple lovely and stylish women. Gay men never enjoy glamour, style and beauty...oh wait.

True, but the evidence that he's gay is also pretty tenuous IMO and based primarily on his conforming to certain gay stereotypes.

helcat | April 12, 03:32 CET

Amen.

This issue really blew me away. #1 was good, but, it didn't start feeling like Buffy to me until about halfway through. This one was pure Buffy front to back. I might be over excited here, but, I wanna say flawless.

I agree that Giles looked a little strange... I think his jaw wasn't square enough. Tony Head has a strong jaw and strong features in general. The way he was drawn, I'd have a hard time believing him in, say, a Ripper moment.

And that last panel! Perfect ending.

dispatch | April 12, 03:40 CET

If that is a woman, she has a build a lot like a guy, and some imposing hands. Has poor Joyce been in bricklayer hell? ;-)

"True, but the evidence that he's gay is also pretty tenuous IMO and based primarily on his conforming to certain gay stereotypes."

Although, as in life, Andrew's sexual orientation doesn't really matter since none of us are going to date him, to assume he is straight, as the writer does, is stretching things a bit. Dismissing all the gay stereotypes, he still displayed a certain appreciation of men in ways not usually associated with straight men. So one may not be able to assume Andrew is gay, but one also cannot really assume he is straight.

Though the horse is bleeding profusely, I'm going to give it another couple whacks, because in my experience "Oh, balls." is just not very American, and not very American female. "Oh, crap." yes, and Buffy has said that. Oh, f-." yes, and Buffy almost said that. Various other choice expletives? You betcha. It's a dream so anything is possible, and as I say, it may be a clue as to where her mind has been lately since I would expect in a dream for the character to use language their own mind is most comfortable with. Of course it may not be an expletive. Maybe it is descriptive as in, Oh, look at that, balls. Unlikely, but... (Oops, the horse seems to have stopped breathing.)

"And Spike has used the phrase "Oh balls!" at least once, when Trina's body was found by the police in Dead Things."

Yep. I think there may have been a less obvious time as well. I have to think...talk amongst yourselves...this may take awhile. Hey, come back here with my cane!

newcj | April 12, 04:04 CET

He thinks that Andrew's straight?

I don't think we can label Andrew either straight or gay. At various times he seemed to be crushing on Warren, Anya and possibly Xander. But I think you could get away with calling him a PermaVirgin, because that boy is never going to get any if he keeps up his usual shtick.

Saturn Girl | April 12, 04:19 CET

dispatch, I completely agree about Giles. I feel like many illustrations of Giles tend to make him a very attractive 30 year old in frumpy clothing and glasses...sort of the male version of the teen movie nerd-who-becomes-prom-queen-when-she-removes-her-glasses. This was ten times worse in the old comics, but I kind of see it happening here as well. We clearly know it's not impossible for someone over 30 to be highly attractive (as Mr. Head himself undeniably proves), so why can't they draw him that way? I'm not asking for an exact likeness, just a more realistic reflection of the man's age...he's been through a lot, let's see it in his face.

WillowSlay | April 12, 06:10 CET

Andrew could be androgenous. Or bisexual. Or perhaps he really hasn't made up his mind. His interests don't seem to be very sexual, with exception maybe to his crush on Warren. He lives in a storybook world, where everyone likes him. He doesn't seem to realize those around him struggle to tolerate his quirky, spineless behavior.

Most of the time.

quantumac | April 12, 07:07 CET

I'm amazed no one mentioned the similarity between the outfit on the last panel and Tara's corset in OMWF--a beautiful detail and the less obvious of the major allusions in it (the other being the line from "Two to Go").

I like that Joss is tackling a bunch of relatively unanswered questions from the series here. In particular, I can't wait to find out how Xander deals with the "love" dilemma presented to him--it was never really clear whether he fully got over Buffy or not (with his thing for her featuring in his nightmare-fantasy in "Hell's Bells" as a thing coming between Anya and him). More acknowledgement of Buffy neglecting Dawn and its consequences is also good, and the confrontation hinted at on the final page makes me salivate. I'm still not *quite* sure what to think of the series but it is certainly entertaining and I can see it becoming more than that.

And I think "Oh, balls" is probably Buffy thinking of Spike; her knocking Xander's head off could theoretically (though a stretch) be really her thinking of decapitating (i.e. killing) Spike, whom she may or may not know is still alive. (Andrew seemed to imply that she did in TGIQ, but you never know....)

Oh, and can't wait to see who Amy's friend is. Buffy's "I know you" immediately made me think of the First Slayer though (from Giles' line in "Restless": "I know you I know you.")

WilliamTheB | April 12, 08:02 CET

but you can bet my eyes got very um, moist. Particularly in the last panel. What an homage of pure loveliness.

The above was part of my post, the homage being what Willow was wearing.

Tonya J | April 12, 08:09 CET

Gah. People need to stop saying the drawings don't look like the people.

If you want to see bad renditions, check out some of the art from the earlier Buffy series. Or any other comics adaptation of something from the screen. If the artist wastes time making sure every panel is photo-realistic, books won't be finished on time.

I hope people get used to it and enjoy the ride. Jeanty's work is really fitting, and I can guarantee that there are going to be artists in the future of the series that won't be as spot-on as he is.

dingoes8 | April 12, 08:36 CET

I hate to sound like a snob or something, and I'm sure this isn't important anymore, but Spike also says, "Oh balls" in "Normal Again" when he and Xander are walking through the graveyard trying to find the demon that attacked Buffy.

Also, someone mentioned the usage of an unnecassary, wrong comma when Xander says, "So, gentle", but I would like to respectfully disagree and say that at least gramatically the usage was correct because I read the line as "So (pause) gentle" as in "so, you were saying something about gentle" or something like that, where a comma would be needed because there would be a pause between the two words. I hate to post over such small things, but there it is, take it with a grain of salt. Thank you and goodnight.

Entropy | April 12, 10:46 CET

“Oh balls” made me think of Spike too, that whole dream pane seemed to focus on the anxieties about sex and darkness that soulless Spike was prone to point out. “Did you bruise the boy?” “Not worth a second poke? ” Dream Xander seems unwilling to repeat a previous encounter and then his head falls off. The sinister “I have so much to show you” person looks like Spike but talks like Angelus. As it’s a dream I think he’s more likely some kind of mighty morphing composite with features of several figures from her past.

I had an idea that the evil(?) lint was a spinning and hence a “Sleeping Beauty” reference but that’s probably a bit of a stretch even for a first post.

hayes62 | April 12, 11:37 CET

Oops, sorry, I thought the "homage" in question was "just" the brilliant reference to "Two to Go." Very homagey panel.

WilliamTheB | April 12, 12:32 CET

Perhaps the evil lint is a nod to the "exploding lint" of "Life Serial"?

Shapenew | April 12, 12:52 CET

Entropy, are you kidding about posting over small things ? Did you even read the rest of the thread ? ;-)

(good point too, that's a perfectly valid way of reading 'So, gentle.' though in that instance i'd expect a question mark at the end as in "So, [you were saying something about] gentle ?", not sure how much sense it makes as a statement. More than one hidden meaning is also entirely possible of course, or none at all)

I quite like the 'Sleeping Beauty' spinning flax idea, it's clearly that fairytale that's being 're-told' so you never know (and welcome hayes62 ;). 'So Scottish' is still a mystery though. For some reason I can't put my finger on I keep thinking 'son of Adam'.

(and 'exploding lint' might be another Warren clue)

Personally I always just assumed Andrew was gay because, well, he sounded it and acted it (and clearly crushed on Warren and possibly Timothy Dalton ;). Obviously not all gay men sound or act like that but enough do that it's become the stereotype (and likewise not all straight men DON'T act like that but enough DON'T etc. etc.). Or maybe 'eunuch' or 'sexless' is actually closer ?

Saje | April 12, 13:16 CET

Andrew also has a crush on Spike, no?

Spying on Spike and Anya in the Magic Box:
"He's so cool...uh, the girl's hot, too."

And elsewhere, too, I think?

Yes on the evil lint!

[ edited by toast on 2007-04-12 10:52 ]

toast | April 12, 13:17 CET

Yep, true on Spike. You could probably make a case for Xander in his carpenter's gear too. Also the way, when filming in 'Storyteller', he hilariously zips past Willow and Kennedy making out when, rightly or wrongly, that's the sort of thing that'd hold most straight guys' attention (there could even be 'zoom' involved ;).

Basically, quite a lot of crushes on guys but an almost sexless approach to women. Still not conclusive I guess but if I had to bet my last pound ...

Saje | April 12, 16:43 CET

Rats! I'm at work and I don't have my ish of #2 but I could swear that Buffy says something like "This time I'll be more gentle" or something to that effect which makes me think they have already Done The Deed in real life, not just in a dream.

Let's face it: Buffy & Xander have both been through a lot since the end of Season 7 - Buffy has lost Spike, Xander has lost Anya, they've moved to Scotland, they've obviously won the lottery (or perhaps Giles/Willow figured out a way to access the Watcher's Council's bank account) and had to redecorate an entire castle and stock it with feisty young super-powered women, Dawn's been turned into a giant..... and more that we don't know about yet.

This is a lot of stuff happening and emotions have probably been out of control. They can't break out into song, so I'm gonna say that it would NOT be unlikely that Buffy and Xander at some point between when we saw them last and when we're seeing them now COULD have fallen into bed together, both of them telling themselves (and each other) that it's just a comfort thing, that they're still just friends, and it's just a one time thing.

And of course, each of them knows deep down that this is not true at all. For as long as we've known Xander, he has literally always been there for Buffy. Giles has betrayed her and left, Willow has betrayed her and left, Spike and Angel have betrayed her (when they didn't have souls) and left... but Xander has always been there when it counted most. He's never had super powers or super knowledge and he's had his freaking eye ripped out of his skull -- but he has never failed to jump into the fight and he will always be there as long as he draws breath. No matter what Buffy says or does to him, he will never leave her. She cannot doubt that of everyone she has ever known, Xander has always been a true friend.

And as for him, he has loved her since he first saw her. Always will. Dem's the facts.

So the drama for both of them in this issue: is there something else there? For Xander, when the unattainable has been in your arms... what comes next? True love is what will save her, but what if his love isn't enough? And for Buffy, love has always been associated with pain, suffering, and loss. Will she bring that pain to her closest friend?

At least, this is my take on this issue, and what's been on my mind since I read it yesterday. Not so much about if Andrew's gay or not (heck, I don't think he even knows).

mr_shemp | April 12, 17:24 CET

Yeah, well, when you've already thought about Buffy/Xander and chewed it back and forth for about a week, Andrew's gayness starts to look like a pretty attractive topic of conversation. Next up: where does Dawn get a large enough bar of soap to wash properly ? Or does she use, like, a barrel of shower-gel ? ;)

Saje | April 12, 17:33 CET

Saje, sorry if what I said was a rehash of the conversation for the last week (don't know how I missed it! I'm here twice a day at least! Forgive me!). But I just got my copy from Thing yesterday and had to share my ramblings with somebody other than my wife, who read the issue right after me and thinks I'm goofy in the head.

And on the topic of giant hygiene, I'm thinking that there's about 5-6 Slayers whose sole responsibility is to steal bags of fat from plastic surgeons for rendering.

mr_shemp | April 12, 17:58 CET

And , like where does she get the giant shoes, and those pants that make her butt "look" big?

toast | April 12, 17:58 CET

Maybe Kenny had sex with the soap?

hayes62 | April 12, 18:12 CET

I think we've seen two sets of giant-sized clothes now? Apprentice witches have been mentioned, so magicking some of Dawn's clothes to be bigger is a possibility.

I thought the Scottish lint was just dream weirdness, myself. It seemed very nonsensical, and I read it as comic relief after Xander's head pops off during attempted kissing, which was also funny but in a dark way. And it happens when the scarier part of the nightmare is starting in the background.

Sunfire | April 12, 18:28 CET

You beat me to it, toast. I was looking at that enormous double stitching and really wondering how those jeans got made. The only thing I can figure is that her clothes got big with her. (?) I think I'll stop there.

Ok. Sunfire's idea of witchy clothes enlargement works for me, and stops me from going other places.

newcj | April 12, 18:34 CET

Ah, no probs mr_shemp, folk are getting them at different times and with several threads, the .org etc. I bet everyone's missing stuff left and right. Also possible i've got a bit of a work induced grouch on ;).

Re: magic jeans, couldn't they have magicked a pair that didn't make her butt 'look' big then ? Or are some things beyond even their eldritch talents ?

Sex with soap. Ouch, on many levels. I've long thought there are two sure signs that a child is growing up, 1) they develop even a rudimentary awareness of their own mortality and 2) The 'joke': Two nuns in a bath. One nun says to the other "Where's the soap ?" and the other nun says "Yes, it does doesn't it." is no longer a complete mystery to them ;).

Saje | April 12, 18:44 CET

Oh. I don't think I get the nuns joke, which suggests that maybe I'm not all grown yet, 20 or no....

WilliamTheB | April 12, 20:19 CET

D'oh! I'm right there with you and had to go to geek.com for an answer. Is it a British thing, like the rhyming game that ends up in a phrase, which I still don't totally get?

Tonya J | April 12, 20:59 CET

You mean is the joke British or the thing that nuns do? Probably both.

Uh topic. Andrew was gay for Scott Baluka in "First Date."

hayes62 | April 12, 21:23 CET

I love that the 'topic' is whether Andrew's gay or not ;).

Is it British ? Hmm, dunno, maybe. Didn't really occur to me that it might be culture specific (except obviously you need to speak English fairly fluently to get the play on words) I just remember doing that 'pretend laugh' thing as a lad at school until "lightbulb!" one day I actually understood what had been happening with the soap. Maybe it's me specific ;).

(more seriously, it would mark a stage of development for very young kids, say 4 ish, because it involves knowing about other minds and how they might misapprehend even if the meaning is apparent to us. Course you wouldn't tell that joke to a kid anyway - and even if you did, until their own personal 'lightbulb' moment it wouldn't make any sense)

Do you mean rhyming slang Tonya J ('apples and pears' = stairs, 'boat race' = face, 'sweeney todd' = flying squad etc.) ? Not really a game, it's actual slang, mainly from London but there's also a fairly recent Scottish version ('chammy leather' = blether - a Scots slang word for a chat) though i've never used it or heard it used 'in anger'.

Saje | April 12, 21:36 CET

Oops, double post.

[ edited by Saje on 2007-04-12 18:37 ]

Saje | April 12, 21:36 CET

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks Saje, the slang thing. I'm assuming you can insert any words to get to the slang you want b/c otherwise it doesn't make sense to this literal mind. Well, now we've done lint, Andrew and penguins to death, what else can we take on? (Do I think Andrew's gay? No idea. I do think he's like Peter Pan, the boy who didn't want to grow up. When Andrew puts geeky things away or at least in a drawer someplace, then perhaps he'll be ready for a relationship).

Tonya J | April 12, 21:48 CET

Saje, This joke thing is interesting. I assume I know the meaning that I am supposed to be getting from the joke by the contex you put it in, but I still only have theories about how I am supposed to get to that conclusion.

"you need to speak English fairly fluently to get the play on words"

Ah ha! So there is a play on words in the joke.



...next clue please.

newcj | April 12, 21:48 CET

Imagine the joke said out-loud newcj. Is it "where's" or "wears" (as in 'wear out') ? See ? What can I say, it's not exactly high art but as dirty jokes go it made 11 year old me + friends laugh ;).

I'm assuming you can insert any words to get to the slang you want b/c otherwise it doesn't make sense to this literal mind.

Not really Tonya J, there's a sort of accepted set of phrases which develops over time (I have no idea how) so that now for instance you can have 'Britney Spears' for 'beers' (20 years ago that would have made no sense at all). The reason it wouldn't work with arbitrary phrases is that, as a further step down the informality path, quite often the second part is dropped so that e.g. 'plates of meat' = feet would be shortened to just 'plates' or 'boat race' = face would be 'boat' as in "What's up with your boat then ?"). Clearly, without knowing the 'code' that makes no sense because it doesn't even rhyme. If you did it with any old phrase you'd very quickly end up with no-one (as opposed to just no American ;) understanding what the hell you're 'rabbiting' on about ('rabbit and pork' = talk - you have to imagine a very long English vowel sound).

Like I say though it's a London thing, mainly East-end. I can go months without ever using rhyming slang and then usually only facetiously (cos i'm not English ;).

Saje | April 12, 22:16 CET

"Imagine the joke said out-loud newcj. Is it "where's" or "wears" (as in 'wear out') ? See ?"

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh! Mystery solved. In the USA, we don't use "wears" in quite that way. The word has the same meaning, but we don't phrase questions using "wear" in that way...at least not in any part of the country I have been in. We would add a preposition.

newcj | April 12, 23:04 CET

Sorry Mr Shemp, those are very much not the facts. I mean any fan can look at season 1 to 7, and claim that subject A has always been there,was a hero, can do no wrong,ect. It doesn't matter wether it's Spike,Xander,Willow,Tara... Every character in the Buffyverse has got flaws, Xander is no different.

Personly i hope Buffy doesn't end up in a relationship this season, or if she does it should be one with herself, what?
You heard me, getting to know herself. As we saw in her nightmare she still has a lot of issue's from past ghosts.
The facts are that a HUGE battle is coming and Buffy will need her whole army ready by then, not to mention becoming a true leader,general. I don't think she's got time to waste worrying about her boyfriend or being normal.
And if she misses sex so much, she can always call Spike, he'll be at her door before she puts her phone down,hehe.

Vergil | April 12, 23:15 CET

Heckfire, I don't get it either and I'm 51 but then I've led a sheltered life in many ways. (well, s*xually at least, otherwise,w ell I lived out of shopping cart for a while)

DaddyCatALSO | April 12, 23:24 CET

Well, I typed that before I saw the other posts and, well, actually my thoughts had been going along those lines. And maybe this makes me sound like too much of a typical guy, but I think it's a good idea.

DaddyCatALSO | April 13, 02:26 CET

Andrew was very big with the Spike love. Remember his reaction to finding Spike alive in "Damage":

"Spike? It's you. It's really you!
(hugs Spike, sobbing)
My therapist thought I was holding onto false hope, but... I knew
you'd come back. (sniffles, releases Spike from the hug to look him in the eyes) You're like... you're like Gandalf the White, resurrected from the pit of the Balrog, more beautiful than ever.
Ohh... he's alive, Frodo."

Saje, your light bulb moment with the nun's joke reminds me of a similar moment I had in response to a joke Tom Lehrer tells on one of his albums, about the necrophiliac who achieves his life's ambition and becomes county coroner. I used to listen to that album all the time as a kid and it just went right past me. And then one day when I hadn't heard it in a while, I put it on and suddenly I understood it. And I knew then that I was a grownup. Or at least I understood big words. (And I have to admit, my reaction to the joke now is, to quote Buffy, "ewwehh.")

barboo | April 13, 06:56 CET

Heh, yep very similar barboo. At the time it's great, feels like forbidden knowledge, new vistas opening up etc. Looking back, you maybe sometimes pine for more innocent times ;).

In the USA, we don't use "wears" in quite that way.

Well, truth to tell, a few liberties have been taken for the sake of the joke newcj because that's a very unusual word formation over here too (it's too brief, in normal usage there'd be other qualifiers at least e.g. "doesn't it ?" or "a bit" etc.) even if it's not so weird as to be complete nonsense. Also, "Where's the soap ?" is obviously a clear question with corresponding rising inflection, "Wears the soap" is more a statement (though you might get a similar inflection as a sign of surprise at the 'new' knowledge as in "[I'm surprised it] Wears the soap" - bit reachy though).

Saje | April 13, 12:30 CET