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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Remember when this place was just flame-throwers and rotating knives? I miss that."
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April 26 2007

Joss Whedon talks 'Angel: After the Fall'. I'm working through the stages of grief, trying to make my peace with this project. I'll just thank that gods that Joss is involved, and that Brian Lynch is the writer tapped to bring it to the page. Things could be much worse.

I think Brian is about to deserve a color bump over here...
Aww, Joss, you are pretty.

Even if that picture is like ten years old, and it seems to be the only one anyone ever uses for you.
Are you sure about that UnpluggedCrazy? Maybe he's just not getting any older. Hmmmmm.
I like Joss' answer to the canon question.

12 issues may not be as huge as Buffy Season 8 is, but a year's worth of Angel's story isn't bad at all. ;)
Yeah, I also would have liked to see a 24 issue Angel Season 6. But this is canon stuff so it's all good anyway I guess. The Buffy comics are gooooood!
Even if that picture is like ten years old, and it seems to be the only one anyone ever uses for you.

Dude, that's totally Illyria, she just looks like a VikingPrincess. Ah, wait ... nevermind.

12 issues is more than we had before but I do like the idea of having a definite length and, therefore, end point in mind. Strangely, despite the supposed cliff-hangerness i've actually always seen Angel as having a more closed ending than Buffy. And if the rumours are true about pre-cancellation S6 we're looking at a post-apocalyptic Angelverse. Me likey big style.

And way to go Haunt, you're really working through this thing ;).
A year's worth of Angel is an amazing run, and there is no reason why it can't be extended if Joss & Brian (or some other writer) is interested in carrying on. I am just as excited about this as I am about Buffy's Season 8, they will have very different tones (Buffy more in the sunshine, Angel more in the dark, just like the TV shows were) and it should really be fun to read both series!
I like the idea of it being short and intense. If it's going to be what they planned to do with season 6, that's already giving quite a bit away, plot-wise.
A pretty Joss and a bran-y Season 6. What more could we ask for and reasonably expect to get?
I like the idea of a mini-series with a definite ending, and yet...part of me is seething with the thought that it doesn't get as long a run as Buffy. Oh well. Just the fact that we get more goodness of the Captain Foreheaded variety is enough to give me a happy.
About canon: I've always considered all story lines to be canon, fanfic or commercial. It's just a question of which universe you're talking about. Joss Whedon has a universe, but Jet Wolf from also has a universe (a really good one, but I digress…) Occasionally those universes intersect.

Point is, there are an infinite number of stories in those universes. Some we pay for. Others we wish we could pay for (i.e. good fanfic). Still others we wonder why the author bothered (i.e. blessed wannabe fic).
I also like that this is going to have a 12 issue run.A intense year run might be just right.
I've always considered all story lines to be canon, fanfic or commercial.

That's nice, but then you're removing all the meaning from the word "canon".
I think ASYLUM happened. But that's just me.
Maybe not just you, Brian. Could be that it became canon, you know, retroactively?
Sorry Brian (and toast), I'd rather it not become canon retroactively. It's fun to play with the universe but it's just not official to me. No matter how good it is. :)
It's okay, maje. As long as people liked it, that's all that matters.

And also that it happened. And it did. I was there.
Hey guys, could someone post a link to the David Fury interview mentioned right after the article? Can't remember if I've read it before. If there's already season six info out there I'd like to check it out.

Sounds like fun.
Well personally I think having Joss approve 'Asylum' is kinda like having the Pope canonize a Saint, only you know...not as creepy (I'm a Catholic so I reserve the right to be inappropriate). Anyway, I'm hoping that several characters from 'Asylum' get in the back door of canon by showing up in 'Angel' season 6!
As much as I enjoyed 'Asylum', I would really, really like to see non-canon (which 'Asylum' is) stay our of canon.

Nothing against Mr. Lynch at all. I think Brian is a fantastic writer, and I'm positive that he'll do amazing things with Season Six. But I would just rather stick with the established, definitive canon characters... plus any new ones the he and Joss create specifically for the canon series going forward.
I didn't say ASYLUM was canon, I just said it totally happened.
You're absolutely right, Brian. It definitely happened. And it was awesome!

Just like Season Six will be. :)

This all sounds great. I say sounds cause I can't actually read the interview at the moment. Newsarama seems to be experiencing diffs.
Are they canonical diffs ? It's important.

Bloody hell, hope we didn't break another website. With great power comes great responsibility. And i'm not into that.
Sounds very cool and brutal. I understand why Joss can't do everthing himself, he's already very much involved with Buffy and stuff. This is great news for Angel fans.
Mr Lynch, i consider Asylum very much canon, because there is nothing so far that contradicts it from happening. The characterization feels true(unlike other IDW comics, Old Friends,Old wounds, Spike vs Dracula,...), the setting could have happend, there were many times during season5 where Spike was absent and i dont think that Spike would do nothing but wait for Angel to call. I imagen him doing what he does best, kicking ass.
Brian, is there any chance for a future Spike spin-off?
i consider Asylum very much canon

We really need a new term for this, because as I said above, this just removes the meaning of the word.

It's not that I object to people picking and choosing what they feel creates a coherent and consistent universe for them. Not at all.

It's just that language is sort of a precious and important thing, and we ought to use words to mean what they mean.
Definitely happened...and you are right, Haunt, it was awesome !!!

A 12 issue version of the "story they were planning to pursue" - This is wonderful news.
Brian just needs to get Joss to say that he considers Asylum to be a canon event in the life of Spike and everyone is happy. ;)
It's just that language is sort of a precious and important thing, and we ought to use words to mean what they mean.

*quickly redefines 'precious' to mean 'malleable' and 'important' to mean 'arbitrary'* Hah, you totally fell into my trap b!x! I dunno what folk're on about, this evil arch-villain thing is dead easy.

Agreed though (even if I would rather chop off a body part than start the whole canon thing again ;).

Expanded universe ? Variably-canonical ? Flexi-canon ? Or go the Marvel route so we have Buffyverse 616 and then various alts ?

(I don't see why Asylum can't be retro-canonised since it's not necessarily inconsistent - so long as we can explain why Lorne's in Vegas - and it definitely happened in the IDW Angelverse continuity. Got the comics to prove it. Can you ply people with booze via email ? Worth a try Brian ;)
Please please please please please.... let me draw this book. Please.
Pity, one more 'please' and you'd have been a shoo-in Stephen ;-).
Saje: "Pity, one more 'please' and you'd have been a shoo-in Stephen ;-)."

Oh, Way Cool! How many pleases do I need to get to write a "Buffy" arc??? Huh? Huh? (Jumps up and down like a sugar-hyped third-grader...)
One more. It's always one more ;).
I'm going with the other IDW comics should remain non-canon.I've enjoyed all the comics in the Angel line but feel there should be a seperation between the canon Angel season 6 comics and the other IDW books.Just like the other Buffy comics and season 8.
Saje: "One more. It's always one more ;)."

(sigh)Always jam yesterday and jam tomorrow, never jam today... :-( - (grumble, grumble)
Canonise Spike: Asylum now.
Only if Buffy: Ring of Fire gets canonized first.
Buffyfanatic said:

"I've enjoyed all the comics in the Angel line but feel there should be a seperation between the canon Angel season 6 comics and the other IDW books.Just like the other Buffy comics and season 8."

I agree about the separation re: the IDW Angel comics and earlier two volumes of Angel from Dark Horse. I'm still not exactly sure which of the earlier Buffy comics are canon though. Is it simply, anything touched by a Mutant Enemy writer ? Fray is a given, it's Joss-penned and even ended up being the origin of a prop that showed up in Season 7. What of the rest, though ? I really liked Jane Espenson's post-Season 3/pre-Season 4 mini-series Haunted, but I can't remember whether anything in there contradicted what we'd seen or felt too false to work. I remember it being pretty Faithful though.

The Jonathan one-shot also penned by Jane ?

Doug Petrie's Ring of Fire was the first ME-penned Buffy comic and is still a favorite of mine, but I remember thinking that it didn't feel like it fit. Given something as big a deal as Drusilla's betrayal and the rest of the events, it just doesn't work that there'd never be mention or repercussions on the show (granted, Dru's insane so there might've been some easy forgiveness there and with only 22 episodes of the show per season covering roughly September to May of the Buffyverse, a lot could've happened and been discussed that we simply never saw).

The Origin 3-issue mini-series was adapted from Joss' original Buffy movie screenplay and made to fit with the show with things like Merrick looking like "Becoming" Merrick instead of Donald Sutherland and there being an epilogue that revealed Buffy was telling her LA story to her friends. I vaguely recall Joss saying in an interview once that what's there is what he considers happened, but aside from the wonky Dark Horse vampires, was there anything in there to make The Origin not fit very well with the TV series ?

I haven't re-read many of the above-mentioned titles, but when I was buying them as they came out, "Ring of Fire" and the entirety of the non-ME penned or approved Buffy comics were the ones I didn't consider cannon.

That was all.

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