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May 06 2007

(SPOILER) Some new spoilers for Buffy season 8! Wizard Entertainment has some teasers for the next three issues.

Sounds very exciting! Very very VERY exciting! I can't wait to see some vampires get dusted, I've missed that. And another old enemy?! Wow.
And we know more about the mysterious issue 5. It's all good.
Sounds like Faith might be doing some undercover work, which is kinda redundant, since she does some of her best work beneath the sheets. And on top of them. And against the bedroom door...

[ edited by quantumac on 2007-05-06 18:03 ]
The new tidbits sound really good.
Is this Violet Slayer supposed to be Vi? I can't wait to see her again, she was my favorite potential.
Rona is by far the worst, most annoying Buffyverse character ever. I hope the only reason Joss is bringing her back is to kill her off.
Storyteller, much as I hate to say this given your screen name, Andrew is in my opinion the most annoying character Joss ever created. Rona was just a short-timer, nothing more.
Some of this stuff is from issue 3 like the threesome.This article was done before issue 3 came out this week.I think the comment about,"another former foe from the TV show," is referring to the Warren reveal.

I really love the idea of Faith taking on a slayer gone bad.It basically brings things full circle for her by having to deal with someone who is like she was back in season 3.
Did I miss the "bird and bees conversation between Willow, Xander and Buffy" in #3? 'Cause I don't remember it. Or perhaps its just a bit sensationalist like the references to the scene with Andrew's slayers, which I didn't think was all THAT steamy...
Rona was kinda annoying, but I can understand where she was coming from. I think now that her life isn't in constant danger anymore and she's used to the whole slayer thing she won't be so stressed, and hence she'll be less annoying. It would be nice for Buffy to have more visible minority characters who aren't just cannon fodder.

I hope Vi still has her hat.

I like the sound of this: "wait until you see ... bad girl Faith do her “My Fair Lady” impression to take down a high-society Slayer gone rogue!" That sounds like fun. I hope Giles is her Henry Higgins :)
Yeah, a lot of those "spoilers" were mostly recaps, and I don't remember the bird and bees conversations between Willow, Xander and Buffy in #3. Unless it was that brief scooby moment over a seemingly defeated Amy? If that's what the writer was referring to, then their spoilers are just a tad exaggerated. I'm really looking forward to the Faith arc and appearance of the season 7 potentials. Vi was my favorite, but what's up with the hatred for Rona?
I didn't hate Rona, but she wasn't that interesting as a character.I'm so glad Vi is coming back!My fave potential slayer, and third favorite vampire slayer after B and F.
Vi was by far my favorite potential and I look forward to seeing her again.

And, I did like Rona.

To be honest, there isn't a character I truly dislike in the Verse. I have my favorites but all in all, I have some regard for all of the characters.
I have some regard for all of the characters.


Even Parker?
I should have stipulated "regular" or "recurring"!

But, who knows, if Parker had stuck around maybe we would have been given more insight to his character. The actor was terrific enough to suggest there was more to Parker than the worm he appeared and that just maybe Parker's real history was as bad as his spiel. In Beer Bad there was some subtext going on that made me more interested in Parker.
And, I did like Rona.

I simply refuse to believe that. You really should go watch season 7 again if you think you liked her, because in that case it has most likely been a long time and you have forgotten what she is really like. I have seen season 7 three times now and she only gets worse ever time.

And no, this is not a matter of taste, because there simply were no redeemable qualities about her at all due to how one-dimensional the character was. All she did was complain and bitch to people that were only trying to keep her alive. She served her purpose as a character in that regard, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. All in all, she was never meant to be likable, so you saying you liked her is actually kind of offensive to the writers because in other words you are saying they did a bad job.
Jeez Storyteller, all Reddygirl said was that she liked Rona. I think she's entitled to her opinion on this one without getting such a vehement broadside.
I like Rona, too, and have watched S7 in its entirety many times. She was young and scared and could barely come to terms with what was happening to her and all around her. The characterisation was, as I interpreted it, well judged and I wouldn't think it is offensive to the writers to respond in a positive way to this character.

I liked the storyline about the potentials very much and I liked the individual characters. Molly was a particular favourite of mine.
"You know what? I am sick of your deal with this Spike guy. This isn't about him. This is about you. You're being reckless." (Empty Places)

Not a huge Rona fan, but that is enough to make me appreciate her. Girl said what needed saying. And I disagree that she wasn't meant to be likable. I think the writers wanted all the Potentials to be sympathetic to some degree.

But anyways, why are we arguing about Rona when we have the ElizaDoolittle!Faith spoiler? Doesn't anyone else think that's going to be loads of fun?
NO Potential came anywhere near Dick Van Dyke Mollie in the Deeply Annoying stakes as far as I'm concerned. Rona was merely slightly irritating by comparison.
Oh, I am SO looking forward to the Faith arc! I love that it sounds like they're going to be doing something fun with her character, instead of the deeply serious storylines she usually gets. I love the serious storylines too, of course, but yay for something different. And this sounds like there'll be plenty of opportunity for character exploration as well.

I agree with lorelei_frolick. If Faith is going to go under cover in high society, she'll definitely need someone to show her the ropes. I hope it's Giles. They seemed to be getting along well in "Touched" and I think there're some similarities between their characters that would be fun to play up. There's potential for an interesting relationship to develop, so I hope it does.

[ edited by blueanddollsome on 2007-05-06 22:53 ]
Ah, Rona...I absolutely loathed every single thing about her. As was already stated, she did nothing but bitch and whine to the people that were trying to keep her alive about those very same people who were trying to keep her alive.

If I were involved in that scenario at all I would have made it perfectly clear that anyone who didn't like Buffy's leadership and thought they'd be better off on their could go on and leave, but if they chose to stay then there's not to be ENDLESS complaining about every...single...thing.

There's a difference between healthy criticism and being able to have a save in what's going on, and being completely useless space-waster who's entirely unable to please.

It makes me a little sad that we're seeing Rona again, as after S7 was over I decide that she bled to death on that school bus and no one could disprove me. Sigh.

Maybe she'll die horribly in the comics. *crosses fingers*
"You know what? I am sick of your deal with this Spike guy. This isn't about him. This is about you. You're being reckless." (Empty Places)

Not a huge Rona fan, but that is enough to make me appreciate her. Girl said what needed saying. And I disagree that she wasn't meant to be likable. I think the writers wanted all the Potentials to be sympathetic to some degree.


Yes, that was sort of reasonable to say, but what she ended up saying about Buffy after Buffy left the house:

"Ding dong, the witch is dead." (Empty Places)

Shot down any sympathy I had left for the character, and sealed my great dislike for Rona. At first I bought into the scared girl she was, until the attitude started to get worse. If she's the one to get killed, it's no great loss in my book.

As for Faith, I agree with Buffyfantic. It sounds very full-circle to me; love that!
Maybe we'll see a change in Rona now that her powers are activated? I agree that she was one of the more pessimistic potentials, but for all she knew she'd always be powerless unless enough of her friends died off.

Anyway I'm really looking forward to seeing high society Faith, and if she's working with Giles, that makes it even better. Her arc is supposed to be set in England, so it would make sense that we would be seeing more of Giles. I'm excited and yet sad because these issues are months away.
Maybe we'll see a change in Rona now that her powers are activated


That's actually a really good point. I'm now excited to see what the potentials, now slayers, are now like with their new powers.
"That installment also has a panel featuring fledgling Watcher Andrew and a bevy of Slayers that’s so steamy, Whedon asks artist Georges Jeanty in his script to make sure 'nothing un-Dark Horse-able is showing'!"


Sexpot Slayer? - yeah, that is so very Jossian.

Oh, pul-lease. Girls in their underwear. Joss, as we know from the full quote, simply did not want the scene to be exploitive.

"This is a bit of a tightrope, Georges: it's gotta be sexy, Xander's wildest dream, but not completely expolitive. Make sure the girls look like girls, and not all playboy models, and that nothing undarkhorssable is showing. They're having fun, but Andrew truly is bored. Five players total."

*sigh*

It's sexy for the story, not exactly a steamy whack-treat for the adolescent masses.

*sigh*

Well, anyway, so looking forward to more issues, even though sad at the thought of Joss' first arc ending - have really missed the Faith-flavour & trust BV to handle her character well...
"My Fair Slayer" -- and, maybe, "Buffy Season 8: War"
Bring on the bad slayer! And the ex-bad slayer! And maybe the bad side of the good slayer! Darkness, darkness, ooh-ah-ah!
maje, yes that was a loathsome line. But still, I see her point of view. We saw all the pain and turmoil Buffy went through, Rona and the Potentials didn't (and even seeing what she was going through wasn't enough to keep me from being annoyed with Buffy myself). What the Potentials got was Buffy's "Dead-Chloe is stupid, everyone sucks but me" speech. In "Dirty Girls" her speech before they went to the vinyard was basically "There was this dude who pissed me off. I'm going to kick his ass. It might not actually accomplish anything, but I'm bored here anyways. Let's go." That's real inspiring leadership, totally the way to win the loyalty of your troops there, Buff. Buffy had the whole superiority complex thing going and it totally came out in her leadership style, which bugged me because she never had a problem with people-skills before.

My attitude towards season 7 is that everyone was annoying, except for Willow and Xander, who were more with the boring.

Back to Faith, my mind is coming up with all these scenarios of her having to act all well-mannered, and learning to speak properly, and being taught how to dance, and it's giving me glee just thinking about it. Much opportunity for funnies, and for Faith to discover a new side of herself.

And since I would ship Giles with any female who's legal, age differences be damned (in fact, the closer she is to my own age the better), I am hoping that Giles will have more of a role than simply handing Faith her assignment, and that there will be Giles/Faith subtext. :)

Even if there's no subtext, it would be interesting to see how Giles interacts with Faith. Would he try to be mentor-y?
blueanddollsome has a good point about them having some similar character traits. It would be fun if while Giles helped Faith fit in with civilized society, she helped him act out a bit.
I think I'm just spinning airy fantasies now. I shouldn't get my hopes up. He probably won't figure that much.
"Maybe we'll see a change in Rona now that her powers are activated? I agree that she was one of the more pessimistic potentials, but for all she knew she'd always be powerless unless enough of her friends died off."

See thats what always gets me about Rona and most if not all of the other potentials, Buffy (and even Faith to a certain extent) showed that it wasn't the power of the slayer that defined who they were but the person underneath that counted. Buffy had a strength of character that allowed her to change the system and fight a fight she didn't choose, but these girls showed little to no inner fortitude or strength of character. And I think if its the case that the power of the slayer is *not* the determining factor in what kind of slayer a person is, then these girls don't deserve what Buffy has and what she has made special. Its exactly like Batman, if he has to pass the mantle of Batman on to someone else, if he is no longer capable of being Batman, then it *does* matter who he passes that on too, it matters because Bruce Wayne made being Batman an honor and privalege, and in that sense, Buffy did the same thing with being the slayer.

Aaron Sorkin once said that being President of this country is *entirely* about character, and I think to a certain extent, Buffy made being the slayer into something that was entirely about character. Throughout season 7, I kept hoping that they would show some kind of internal strength, a strength that *didn't* come about through guaranteed power or obligation to serve, an inner strength that is indicative of being human, and I don't think they ever showed that fortitude. Empty Places wasn't the deal breaker, the entirety of season 7 was my deal breaker...
I like Rona.
But, you know jerryst3161, there is nothing to indicate that Buffy herself was particularly special before coming into her slayer powers. It was dealing with those powers, and coming to terms with them and challenging her role that helped make her the person she became. She didn't earn her powers ahead of time, either. And we haven't seen all that much of the (former) potentials since they came into theirs, so there may be lots of interesting slayers ahead.
Yeah, I agree, toast, leaving the movie aside and please let's do, the little glimpses - or maybe it was just the one - we had in the show of pre-power L.A.-Buffy were not particularly impressive - gossiping, lipstick-stealing, shopaholic Buffy had not yet, by any means, developed to be full-on mature power-Buffy. And it was a step-by-step process that took years of dealing with the responsibility of saving the world... one more time.

My favorite potential was, of course, Amanda. Um, she survived, right?

*looks up hopefully, like a small puppy, waiting to be whacked.*
"But, you know jerryst3161, there is nothing to indicate that Buffy herself was particularly special before coming into her slayer powers. It was dealing with those powers, and coming to terms with them and challenging her role that helped make her the person she became. She didn't earn her powers ahead of time, either. And we haven't seen all that much of the (former) potentials since they came into theirs, so there may be lots of interesting slayers ahead."

No, dont get me wrong, I actually agree with that, but I guess my point was that Buffy made it into something that was *so* much better than the shadowmen and the Watcher's Council embraced before. After Buffy, it *was* something that should go to someone deserving, something that was special, something that Buffy showed could be better than luck of the draw, and while part of that was who Buffy was after she got the powers and part was the scoobies, there was something about those four people, Willow, Xander, Giles, and especially Buffy, that made it better than simply something to be frowned upon. It became a mantle and an honor after Buffy got a hold of it, she molded both the idea and the role of the slayer into something better than what came before, thats what pioneers and social revolutionaries do, and I think thats important.

The same goes with Batman, he wasn't special before he became Batman, but because of who he was as a person he molded and shaped Batman into an honor that was worth accepting if he ever had to relinguish his title. He took this burden, this forced (and I do think it was very much forced) service in the name of good, he took this thing that was important before but something that came from darkness (the death of his parents) and he made it into something that would become a mantle, an honor, something that inherently saw the light. Something that Terry McGinnes, for instance (Batman Beyond in the Timmverse) saw as a mantle and an honor when he took over for an aging Bruce Wayne.

Buffy may not have been mature or the greatest slayer in season 1, but she was a wonderful person even in season 1, she was a wonderful person all the way back to WTTH, and because of her strength and ability to buck an inherently unjust system, she made and molded the slayer into something worthy of being passed on, where before it clearly wasnt.

Take it and run...
My favorite potential was, of course, Amanda. Um, she survived, right?


Uh huh. Totally.

So did Lindsey.

Ooooooooooooh, look!

Isn't the river pretty?
Jerry, I couldn't agree with you more. Buffy was the best damn slayer to ever live not because of her powers but because of who she was down deep. Loving, forgiving, selfless, etc...none of the others before or after have managed to rise to that title, not that I'm complaining, this series is called BUFFY, the vampire slayer for a reason and I like it that way.

Hated Rona with a passion and match the thoughts that she did nothing but bitch, moan and cry when she should have tried to help out a little. That "Ding dong the witch is dead" is a hard line to swallow or forgive, imo.
I didn't care for any of the potential slayers in all honesty, still not all that fond of them. Waste of precious screen and scene time at this point. I miss my Buffy and Scoobies a little too much maybe. :)

I'd also have to disagree with the notion that Buffy took years to mature or wasn't that impressive right from the beginning. The girl offered her life for the world at the ripe age of 16, it doesn't get any braver, full of love or selfless than that, imo.
I'd stand Buffy season 1 against Buffy season 7 on the maturity level anyday but I guess that's a discussion for another day. :)
jerryst3161, I think it's unfair to say that the girls showed little or no strength of character. Compared to Buffy they may have looked that way, but Buffy's the hero of the show. They can't all be as kick-ass as her. Especially considering she has superpowers and 7 years of experience.

If the Buffy we saw in Angel's flashback in "Becoming" was in the situation of the Potentials in season 7, do you really think she would have acted differently from the rest of them?

In "What's My Line" when Buffy finds out the details about the Order of Taraka she freaks and disappears. Xander and Giles are unable to contact her. Not exactly the wisest move. And she almost strangles Oz in the hallway; she's emotionally on-edge. I imagine having The First Evil and its legion of minions out to kill you would be an even more freak-inducing experience. And unlike Buffy in season 2, these girls don't have superpowers. Some of them just found out that vampires are real. On top of that, they have to leave their homes and families and live with a bunch of strangers, one of whom keeps telling them how much they suck. Oh, and the world may end. It's traumatic. I think a little irrational behaviour shouldn't be unexpected.

As loathed as I am to suggest that more time should have been spent on the Potentials, I think an episode told entirely from their perspective would have been good because it would have built viewer sympathy with them.

In "Empty Places" I think the Potentials showed a lot of strength of character when they stood up to the police officers outside the Bronze. They were acting like a real team for the first time. And it was Faith's leadership that made them that way, not Buffy's. Faith treated them like people, and like equals, instead of like a burden or like canon fodder. She treated them like they were worth something, so they acted like it.

Faith treated the Potentials like equals and they felt empowered to fight back agaisnt the cops, against patriarchy. That's what the show is all about - feminism, equality, power.

One of the many, many things I hated about season 7 is that for much of the season Buffy stood for the opposite of that. As I said in an earlier post, Buffy had a superiority complex, and it came out in her leadership style. She isolated her friends and became another version of the traditionally masculine-style loner hero. The more I think about it, the more I think the writers intended Buffy to be a sucky leader for most of the season. They were working towards the point in "Empty Places" where she essentially becomes an authoritarian ruler, erroneously claiming that "democracies don't win battles," saying that leading is about issuing orders and being reckless and not taking others' feelings into account, and telling her friends to just "fall in line." It's when she reaches this point that she fails and gets kicked out. She fails because she acts like she's better than everyone, like they don't deserve any power.

She saves the world when she decides to share the power.

So I think any claims that the Potentials didn't deserve to become Slayers are wrong -- The Potentials represent people, everybody; Slayerhood empowers them as individuals, frees them from oppression, servitude and patriarchy. To deny any of them that, to deny their potential, would be like denying their inherent worth as human beings and their right to individual agency.

"because of her strength and ability to buck an inherently unjust system, she made and molded the slayer into something worthy of being passed on, where before it clearly wasnt."

I agree that Buffy was a unique Slayer, but I disagree with the rest of what you said. I think Joss intended Slayerhood in and of itself to be a symbol of female empowerment; hence it would be something worth having throughout its existence, not just post-Buffy. I'm not sure if Tales of the Slayers counts as canon, but it is written by Joss and other writers of the show, so its stories are at least indicative of what they conceptualized Slayerhood to be before Buffy. It was never anything "simply to be frowned upon." In "Righteous" especially the Slayer draws personal strength and power from her calling. None of the Slayers pre-buffy rebelled against the Watchers' Council, but they did against other unjust systems. One of them fought Nazis, for example. Saying that earlier Slayers were somehow less than Buffy for not bucking the Watcher's Council I don't think is fair. The Council obviously represents patriarchy, but it's not that simple either. Buffy says the Shadowmen violated the first Slayer, but one could also argue that they empowered her. The Watchers were by no means universally bad either. In "Righteous" the Watcher is the only one who respects the Slayer and admires her power.

Anyhoo... back to these nifty spoilers...

Who do you guys think "the Slayer close to Buffy" is who dies in issue 5? Buffy doesn't seem especially close to any of them. Maybe she developed a friendship with Rona or Vi after Sunnydale, but now they're off running their own Slayer training camps?

[ edited by lorelei_frolick on 2007-05-07 06:26 ]

[ edited by lorelei_frolick on 2007-05-07 06:45 ]
jerryst3161, even ignoring the film version of "Buffy," when Buffy first meets Giles in the school library -- knowing she has superpowers, knowing vampires are real, knowing the whole "one girl in all the world" business, still living at home with her mother -- her first reaction is to tell Giles she's *not* going to do it. If she had no superpowers, had been whisked away from home, had very little idea what was going on, would she have had a *better* reaction? The whole idea takes some getting used to. I'm inclined to cut all the Potentials a good deal of slack, as they were in pretty unsettling circumstances for which many of them were not well-prepared, and Buffy's initial set of responses to being *the* Slayer was no better. She learned and grew. If they live, there's reason to suppose they will, too.
One of the many, many things I hated about season 7 is that for much of the season Buffy stood for the opposite of that. As I said in an earlier post, Buffy had a superiority complex, and it came out in her leadership style. She isolated her friends and became another version of the traditionally masculine-style loner hero. The more I think about it, the more I think the writers intended Buffy to be a sucky leader for most of the season.


I liked S7 in large part because I thought it gave a very realistic portrayal of Buffy being not an inherently sucky leader but an inexperienced one being thrown in at the deep end and gradually drawn into an unsustainable position by her initial successes. It’s not as simple as Buffy having a superiority complex, she also has an inferiority complex about it and she is in an objective sense superior. Partly in terms of having innate gifts that others haven’t and partly because of the position she holds. It’s the Slayer that demons use as a bogeywoman to scare their little spawn not Willow the even more powerful witch.

Buffy’s first speech to the potentials at the end of Bring on the Nightis genuinely stirring. In Showtime she’s the one to realize that speeches are not enough and that the big problem isn’t just the Turok Han but that people lack confidence in her ability to save them hence the whole Thunderdome thing. In Potential she follows up the demonstration of what she can do by giving them the chance to show what they can do. She’s being at least as good a leader as Faith at this point. The problem is that as wel as all the good things she’s doing she’s also made the decision not to get too close to her charges (she doesn’t want to be going cataconic a la Dawn when she fails another Annabelle) with the inevitable side effect that not seeing them as individuals she doesn’t realize the dangers of a one size fits all approach – what works to motivate a Kennedy may have the opposite effect on a Chloe, who significantly is absent from the training sessions.

In GiD that chicken comes home to roost and Chloe kills herself. This is the point at which Buffy makes her greatest mistake with the everybody sucks but me speech. I think she’s trying to rouse everyone from despair by making them mad. It’s not such a bad idea, it’s often worked as a way of motivating herself in the past and it does work with Spike and Willow her main targets. But she makes themistake of giving the same speech to everyone and the potentials don’t have Spike and Willow’s ability to see her message through her medium. She has moved them on from pure defeatism by making them angry but angry at her. From now on they'll follow her purely out of the fear that she’s the only one who can save them and as soon as she fails to do that (in Dirty Girls) she’s lost them.

Oops that that was a bit of a thesis. In conclusion and getting back on topic my guess for the Slayer close to Buffy who dies is Leah. Compared to S7 she really does seem to be connecting with the trainee Slayers as individuals in the training session, she certainly knows their names. Leah got name checked in the Kenny talk as well as at ‘work.’
Buffy may have denied her calling in the very first episode but that issue was resolved by episodes end. Comparing Buffy in the first ep with the potentials is like comparing apples to fruit loops, imo. Totally different dynamics in play.

When Chloe killed herself, Buffy's reaction wasn't a mistake, imo, it was an honest reaction. Everyone but Buffy did suck and as a group they were already being beaten down BEFORE a member of their team took her own life. Buffy's job wasn't to coddle these girls, it was to protect them, with her life if needed. That's what she did. In season 7 Buffy couldn't win, regardless of her actions. Buffy could have had the most support present of any of the seasons but what we see instead is Buffy who feels alone. Despite the fact that Giles has returned, Willow, Xander and Dawn are in the fight, Angel and Faith return too, Spike is obviously there and Buffy has a similar situation with the extra hands as in Graduation Day, lots and lots of people to stand up and fight with her for their lives but it does not matter.
Giles has placed the weight of the world on Buffy's shoulders, Willow is afraid to help, Spike is half crazed and most of the extra hands would rather question Buffy's motives and whine than help out.
Had the group of young people reacted that way in Graduation Day, it would have been a much different battle than the one we witnessed. It would have likely been a slaughter. Buffy did the best she could with what little she had to work with in season 7. In the end, I'd say she managed to get it done just like she always does.
While coming to terms with her slayer powers, Buffy did have to act on them immediately, and in scary ways. But she also had a home, a (somewhat confused, but still loving) mother, a watcher devoted entirely to her training, great friends who thought she hung the moon, and several weeks, at least, before an apocalpse was immanent.

Some of Buffy's important slayer-related characteristics are her strong independence, and strategic and leadership abilities. How would she have done as a potential in that group? Taking orders without question from another leadership figure was never one of her attributes, either. If all these girls are "potential" Buffies, following the leader was always going to be a problem.

The potentials didn't get their powers until the very end of Season Seven; they were away from home, part of a large group of adolescents supervised by some very distracted adults who didn't even know all their names, and scared beyond belief, because who wouldn't be? They agreed to accept the slayer power, and fought well as soon as they got it. I think cutting them a break would be in order. Let's see how they handle things now.

Ah, Quoter Gal I fear our hopes for Amanda may be, uh, of a long-shot ilk. But, it's not like totally impossible is it? Well, maybe it is.

[ edited by toast on 2007-05-07 12:58 ]
RE: Potentials, I could never understand Joss's fascination of any of them, as for me they 'cluttered up' season seven to a ridiculous degree and at the end of the day, became nothing more important then 'canon fodder'.

They really took the 'edge' off season seven for me I'm afraid.
I do see what you're saying Toast and if I cared about them 1/10 as much as I do Buffy I might feel sorry for them. As it was, I viewed them as a noose around Buffy's neck in her last season ever.
That's not to say that I didn't adore Chosen and the message that Joss hit home. Seeing Buffy share her strength, in such a grand way, was truly inspirational and very much in character for our little lady. That being said, Now that I got the grand ending that I'll never forget, I wouldn't mind terribly if Joss found a way to do a reset, making Buffy the ONE again. Obviously there would be two, with Faith but you know what I mean.
I hear you, toast. Imagine a different slayer in charge in S7, and then imagine a pre-calling Buffy finding herself suddenly sleeping on this slayer's floor with a bunch of girls she doesn't know, being told it is her destiny to kill things and she must train for the coming apocalypse while trying to stay alive. It makes it pretty easy to understand the potentials -- in fact, it makes me realize that the show's writers got them so right. Can you just imagine that lollipop-sucking-hair-scrunchi'd-cheerleader in those circumstances...? She'd be hell-on-wheels.
That's pretty much just what I meant, b.smidgen.

Ah-Just got my season eight, issue three. Nowhere else remotely suitable to say this, and probably someone already has said it elsewhere- but the 3 X's? What about three times, as in multiplication, as in "thrice-wise"?

[ edited by toast on 2007-05-07 19:13 ]
I was very excited to read this new info this morning! Rona & Vi! Yay! Faith! Even more yay!

About the X's. What about "X marks the spot", Ethan was in the middle of the X's, maybe HE is the clue or the person behind all of this. I say, don't count Ethan Rayne out.
Hmm. This particular p/review seemed more hype than substance to me. If I wasn't familiar with the plot elements mentioned, I'd think I was reading a review of a different comic, or maybe a parody of Buffy. As nice as it is to read little spoilery tidbits here and there, "Sexpot Slayer" isn't how I'd describe any issue yet, nor what I expect the up and coming issues will be like. Sex and intrigue, yes. And those are fun, especially in the Buffyverse, whose writers handle both very well. But sensationalism? No.
I like the Thricewise suggestion for the three Xs, actually.
I know it's pretty literal, but seeing "Roman" in a line when Ethan was seeming to counter Buffy's interpretation of the XXX as letters make me think at least one of its meanings is 30. I don't doubt it would have more than one layer to it though, and thricewise also seems like a really good guess.

ETA: Also, I didn't see it in the older thread: what was with the pig in armor in the biological-looking surroundings? I got nothin' on that one.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2007-05-07 20:37 ]
Nowhere else remotely suitable to say this, and probably someone already has said it elsewhere- but the 3 X's?


Issue 30 will be very revealing?
Quoter Gal toast menomegirl ; well, re Amanda, "abnsolutely impossible" doesn't exist in the Jossverse, so heckfire we might even see LArry again one of these days.
As others have stated, clues are starting to add up. Given:

A. The symbol could be "the morning star," and Lucifer is sometimes associated with the morning star, and

B. Thirty could mean 30 pieces of silver, and

C. The Fray comic mentioned a slayer in the 21st century who sacrificed herself to remove all magic and demons from the world,

Therefore:

Buffy will be our savior yet again. She will be tempted and tested by a Lucifer-like character. A friend close to Buffy will betray her, similar to Judas betraying Christ. I'm thinking the betrayer will be the same person who kissed Buffy, because in Christian mythos, Judas kissed Christ. Ultimately, Buffy will have to sacrifice herself to save the world.

Okay, maybe too heavy on the literal interpretation. Then again, this is Joss. He likes literal interpretations. He also likes yanking our chains, so this whole line of reasoning may be misdirection.
It wasn't just the potentials, I found just about EVERY character in S7 annoying. Buffy and the speechifying, the Willow and Kennedy pairing, Xander covering up his 'Becoming' lie again, Anya's frat house shenanigans, Giles and his betrayal, Spike and the craziness, Wood and his Spike vendetta and Andrew with just about EVERYTHING!

I guess Joss's vision was that we had to see the group implode in order to be able to appreciate it when they regrouped and united to fight The First. The fact that they ALL redeemed themselves in the end (yes, even Rona), in such a short period of screen time, is a credit to the writers.

I was kind of hoping that the S8 comics would show the scoobs regaining the trust that was lost. But since Dawnie still hates Buffy, perhaps all is not yet as rosy as it appears.

Anyhoo, in other news, I don't have Issue 3 yet. Damn US Postal Service!

But traditionally, 3 XXX's represent a kiss.
Could be to do with the wake-up kiss. Could be a 'vampires kiss'.

Or it might just be a random, pretty pattern.
Except the one thing I have learnt about this verse is that nothing is random. So, bring it on!
Wow. Interesting theory, quantumac! I hadn't really thought a whole lot of the "crucified Buffy" image from Issue #2, I just nodded, said "cool Christ imagery" and moved on without a second glance. Hadnt' thought of the kiss/Judas image; perhaps it was a Slayer that kissed Buffy? I'd assumed it was Willow or Xander, but it could have just as easily been a Slayer who's developed an attraction/affection for Buffy. I'm thinking this Slayer's going to be the same one that dies in issue #5 after betraying Buffy and then redeeming herself. Although that's a lot to happen in just two issues. The other way I could see it going would have Willow betray Buffy after enduring pain/torture at the hands of Warren and the military. I don't know if I can see Buffy sacrificing herself and permanently dying at this point. For one thing, Issue #3's letters page mentioned that Season 8 will be at least thirty issues, giving Buffy a certain contractual immortality for now. Also, we've seen Buffy die twice now, it would seem a little too obvious to just kill her again. I'd like to see her live to a ripe old age at this point, she's earned it.

It just occured to me that since we've only seen the "morning star" symbol used by baddies, perhaps the temptation/betrayal situation isn't what will happen, but just what they plan to have happen, ie they're going to tempt one of Buffy's friends into betraying her. Maybe (and this is just the first thing that springs to my mind) they're going to offer Willow Tara back?

Quoter Gal: I'm sure we'll see Amanda at some stage. She'll show up, along with Wesley, Jonathan, and Wash, and they'll all be riding a giant Miss Kitty Fantastico.
quantumac, not so sure Joss would go with that much Christian mythology/metaphor, as I think he's said that's not his belief system ... ?
Joss is an atheist, but that hasn't stopped him from using Christian imagery in the past. For example, in "Beneath You" we get Spike hanging himself on a cross, foreshadowing his world-saving sacrifice in "Chosen"

My favourite bit of Christian imagery in the Jossverse is when Connor is born; it looks just lke a Gothic icon of the nativity scene, with the baby lying on the ground, and Angel and Fred kneeling by it, and Fred looking so Madonna-like with the coat over her head. It was really nicely done.

Anyhoo... the Christian imagery in the comics... I forget if I posted this idea in another thread here already or not, but I'm starting to think there might be a St. Andrew motif going on:
1) in issue #2 in Buffy's dream she was "crucified" spread-eagle; it wasn't a Jesus-pose, it was more of a "St. Andrew-pose" since he was crucified on an X-shaped cross.
2) Saint Andrew's cross is, of course, the flag of Scotland.
3) Giles is obviously in Eastern Europe. The architecture of the church in the background looks like Ukrainian Baroque, which by no means rules out the possibility that he's in Russia, but if he were in Ukraine, and specifically Kyiv, that would fit because Kyiv is as far as St. Andrew purportedly traveled.
4) The three x's could be Saint Andrew's crosses.
I don't know why there would be a St. Andrew motif, and I think I may be seeing connections where there are none, but I like this idea anyways.
Didn't like Rona, found the Potentials interesting, hated Kennedy, loved S7. That's pretty much my permanent line on the season unless for some reason all the hate goes away at some point. It's not my favorite season or anything, but it's far from being the weakest (S6 takes that "prize" in my book, and it's still great).

The "teaser" tidbits weren't much in the way of interesting, though the Faith/My Fair Lady thing did give me a few giggles.

WryBread, about them offering Tara back to Willow in exchange for Buffy is just about the only way I would ever be okay with Tara returning. That is an amazing idea. Willow and Xander are pretty much THE two people who would never ever betray Buffy, but given that choice...? I still think it would be out of character for Will to betray the Buffster, but that's such a fascinating plot idea.
Yeah, Joss is an atheist, but there's nothing to stop a writer from alluding to a religion/mythology to strengthen his story, regardless of whether or not it's the belief system to which he subscribes. No one's seriously believed in the Greek Gods in well over 2000 years, but writers and artists have been drawing on them for allusion ever since (including devout Christians like John Milton, who peppers Paradise Lost with classical allusions). Someone really should go through Joss's work and pick out all of the Judeo-Christian references, it'd be interesting.

Interesting St. Andrew's theories, lorelie_frolick; perhaps some connection to how (the character) Andrew's going to react to Warren's return? Incidentally, just how is Andrew going to react to Warren's return? Perhaps he'll be the traitor? Or the one who sacrifices himself?

UnpluggedCrazy: A twist in the Tara scenario would be having Tara returned to Willow and being horrified when she finds out Willow traded Buffy for her. I think that would fit well with Tara's personality.

[ edited by WryBread on 2007-05-09 07:45 ]
Wrybread: Tara would indeed be horrified, and I would think Willow would know that, and know at once that she couldn't do it. Sure, Willow would have (if she's stopped to think) known that Tara wouldn't have wanted her to kill and skin Warren either. But even if you discount everything Willow learned from that experience, it was different because she knew, then, that Tara was not going to be there to be horrified. And, she was wild with immediate grief.

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