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May 12 2003

"End of the Buffyverse", MSN honours Buffy with its 10 best moments.

Only 1 of the moments is after S5: OMWF.

I had a difficult time naming my 10 favorite eps, 10 moments would require alot of thought, indeed...

They would be somewhat different from the msn ones though....
It's interesting to note that all but about seven of these moments occurred during the first three seasons. FHM US did a similar list of best episodes (with "Go Fish" being number one, go figure) in the same issue that has Alyson on the cover, and all but one episode were from the first three seasons as well. I wonder if that's worth reading into.
i think a lot of great moments happened after the first 3 seasons. it's just that these lists are limited to only 10, and face it, high school is when everything is more melodramatic. i mean, i would never put angel vamping out after their first kiss in front of tara getting shot or Spike getting his soul back. the writer of the list seemed to be very much a buffy/angel fan.
Ya know. Seriously. Buffy/Angel fans? Pu lease. Only two moments had to do with Buffy and Angel. The tenth moment and the first.

Who ever chose the moments and or who wrote the article seems to be a huge Buffy fan, hence the very indept comments. And from where I'm standing...a lot if not the majority of Buffy fans thought the first three seasons were the best, which is very evident from the ratings!!
Something must have changed @ MSN, because every time I click the link, I get "Actress Nell Carter Died Naturally."
Right, but what happened when Buffy kissed Angel? She finds out he's GASP! a vampire! He runs away in shame. She's supposed to be a Vampire Slayer and she's kissing her sworn enemy. Does she date him or stake him?

This was the first big turning point in the course of the series.

I definitely wouldn't put Tara getting shot as one of Buffy's top 10 best moments. Spike getting his soul was big, but not enough to knock any of the Top 10 off the list, imho.
OK, if "Go Fish" is the number one episode, something's wrong with your list, FHM. Or you really like NekkidXander. And that's valid, actually.

I'd largely agree with MSNBC's list. It is a very Angel-centric list, which is what I imagine narky was getting at; I think the fact that 4 of the 10 moments relate to the Angel arc is more telling than the fact that only 1 of them comes after Season 5. The Angel arc was the defining plot of the show, and it was portrayed perfectly. With it, the writers took Romeo & Juliet and freaking amplified the themes. It was ridiculously ambitious, and they pulled it off beautifully, resulting in the most fully realized story the show has told.

In fact, I'd argue that they've spent the last four years marvelously deconstructing the elements presented in the first three. The show has become more nuanced, less given to show-stopping moments and more bent towards episodes boundlessly rife with context and meaning. Example? When Buffy says goodbye to Joyce for the last time in "Normal Again." An entire thesis could be written about that unassuming yet breathtaking instance, which represents something tremendous and unique in each of a thousand coexisting dimensions: Buffy saying the farewell she never got to say to her dead mother, Buffy articulating in her mind what Joyce meant to her, Buffy finally making a conscious choice to be the Vampire Slayer and rejecting the lie of the "normal girl," an idealized and imagined Joyce finally being able to urge Buffy on instead of attempting to constrain her, a "real" Joyce having to face for the first time her chronic and unspeakable nightmare of losing her daughter, I could go on.

Compare that to the moment at the end of "Angel," moment number 10 in MSNBC's list, when they kiss, and Buffy walks away, revealing the cross burned into Angel's chest. A fantastic metaphor, in its sweetness, beauty and simplicity: the burn of the cross represents the pain his vampiric nature causes him as he enters (or at least acknowledges) his love for Buffy, made more poignant by the fact that he gave her the cross in the first place, signifying his fight against said vampiric nature. The two moments are spectacular for completely different reasons, but the second is less complex and naturally showier.

Possibly my only quibble upon initial reflection is the inclusion of the award Buffy gets in "The Prom." For me, that was like "Awwwwww," but it wasn't really a showstopper at all. Especially for being #2 on the list. I'd possibly switch it out for the Willow/Xander talk at the beginning of "Empty Places," and then move it to number 10, putting the cross/scar thing from "Angel" at #2.

edited to make clear that I was referring to the FHM list in my first sentence, not this one

[ edited by grrarrgh00 on 2003-05-13 05:52 ]
If I had to choose three moments and didn't give myself a lot of time to do it, they'd probably all be Giles related. If I thought a bit longer and used my head for the thinking I'd squeeze in more Buffy-moments. Anyway, my top three without using my head and in no particular order:

- Halloween: Giles beating the crap out of Ethan Rayne
(whoa, who IS that man?)
- Passion: Giles going after Angel and the B/G moment afterwards
('I can't do this without you')
- Giles killing Ben
(single most chilling moment of the series)

With a bit of thought I'd include Buffy killing Angel, Willow crying in the toilets, Spike's speech to Buffy and Angel in the magic shop ('you'll never be friends'), The Mayor's speech to Buffy and Angel when they're exchanging the box of Gavrox, The face of the Gentleman appearing at the window in Hush, Angel killing Jenny, Anya's speech in The Body.
Top ten moments? Very difficult, but a few after a bit of thought (in no order) would have to be:
- *that* scene from Prophecy Girl: "I'm sixteen years old, I don't want die"
- the end of The Gift
- the end of Becoming Pt II
- Buffy and Faith's dream in Graduation Day, then the subsequent tinge of redemption. Pure poetry.
- the "was I not good?" scene from Innocence
- The first few lines of "Walk through the Fire".
- Buffy in the desert in "Restless" ("I walk, I talk, I shop, I sneeze, I'm going to be a fireman when the floods roll back...) so beautifully done.
- pretty much anything in "The Body", but specifically Anya's speech and the Willow/Tara moment
Did Angelus really wear "heavy black eyeliner"? I have absolutely no memory of that.

It would just be way too hard to come up with my own list of moments, so I'm going to agree with prolific and WannaBlessedBe's. Plus, I always really liked that bit in "Innocence" when Angelus saunters into Spike and Dru's scene with "Well, he moves to New York and tries to fulfill that Broadway dream..." I'm over it now, but man, he was cool.

[ edited by eixmi on 2003-05-13 15:09 ]
grrarrgh00, you're in my head and walking around. you're so right about the later seasons having more complicated and important moments, while the high school years had more easy to love moments(i just don't know which kind i enjoy more). Like you were talking about with the Prom, at the time when it first aired i think i almost cried, i thought it was the most beautiful thing ever. now i just go aw. it didn't hold up somehow. but, let's say, spike getting his soul, at the time it was a great moment for spike and his arc, but if you look back on it you really see the implications of it. it happened after a montage of people celebrating their souls and the beauty it can contain, and then you see Spike screaming and writhing in pain as he gets it. the perfect way of portraying life and the show.

i also loved when buffy tore Willow's clothes off in Restless, and that sort of thing.

i dunno, this is a very tough thing. i'm just grateful that im a fan of this show that when asked a question like this i can come up with about 50 on the spot.

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