For your entertainment.
An article in The Guardian about the rise of "torture porn" in mainstream movies mentions the letter Joss wrote to the MPAA about the ad campaign for "Captivity". Warning: there is explicit description of various scenes of "torture porn".
The quote from Joss's letter: "[the ad campaign] is not only a literal sign of the collapse of humanity, it's an assault ... this ad is part of a cycle of violence and misogyny that takes something away from the people who have to see it. It's like being mugged."
July 10 2007
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Dietcoke | July 10, 11:16 CET
[ edited by Green Queen on 2007-07-10 17:33 ]
Green Queen | July 10, 11:32 CET
RambleOn623 | July 10, 11:46 CET
gossi | July 10, 11:50 CET
I am with the general point of the article but I think I agree with Green Queen that Grindhouse seems like a bit of a poor example. I haven't seen it so I can't really comment on it too much, but judging by the trailers and clips I saw and some articles I read, Rose McGowan's character(s?) seemed pretty kickass.
I also don't totally agree with the writer's assertion that a girl survivor is usually used "to help justify the misogyny that has gone before." I think that can be the case, but I still think those heroines who make it through the slasher movies can also be genuinely positive characters. It just depends on the movie.
spidermansays | July 10, 12:51 CET
I'm very much against Torture Porns, but Grindhouse isn't one... it just isn't. I guess I agree with the general sentiment of the article, but the article itself is pretty poor.
jfhlbuffy | July 10, 15:39 CET
*sigh*
Throw in the Suicide Girls (I mean the ones that haven't quit in disgust over their crappy contracts) and add "torture rooms" at a WeHo club called "Privilege" and it starts to read like (really bad) pseudo cyber-punk.
Trying to rustle up some hot buzz about the movie, the wanna-be bad boy Courtney Solomon tried to provoke feminists and generate some more controversy coverage with:
"All of which is a prelude to an undisclosed main event that, he warned last week over slices of pizza a few doors from his company’s new offices on the Sunset Strip, is 'probably not legal.'
'The women’s groups definitely will love it,' Mr. Solomon hinted. 'I call it my personal little tribute to them.' "
Because it's important to try and capitalize on and wag your butt in the face of people you've offended and hurt... you brave little maverick, Courtney.
Luckily, NOW and other groups don't seem to be taking the bait...
QuoterGal | July 10, 16:23 CET
I've known Eli since the day he was born. He's not an idiot; he's actually rather brilliant. Like a lot of very bright people he often doesn't have a clue how he comes across and sometimes, like many of us, he doesn't care. I can GUARANTEE you that Eli said what was quoted in the first part of that article (and, by the way, that isn't the full quote - I read the interview which they're referencing) with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. It comes across *horribly* in print, I grant you that, but listening to him in person it is wholly evident he's actually just being ironic.
For the record, he also said the offending piece of meat in the first poster looked like some of his mom's artwork. I don't see any artists getting bent out of shape, not even Cora.
OzLady | July 10, 18:38 CET
The publicity campaigns for many of these films flag up the prospect of watching a nubile young woman being tortured as a genuinely pleasurable experience.
And as much as I hate this genre, and while I think this film Captivity and Turistas were marketed differently, I do not agree that people are supposed to enjoy the torture in these movies and think the term "torture porn" is pretty lazy. I do agree with Eli Roth that the torture scenes in his films are not meant to be "pleasurable" and that anyone who found them to be so are very, very twisted. I also think Roth is a hack. While the genre is horror and these scenes are supposed to be horrific, I just think they're cheap.
I agree with Joss that just paying to watch a woman murdered is disgusting, but to suggest that that's all there is to Death Proof is pretty insulting to Tarantino's achievement, which I'd say is considerable, especially in relation to the genre he's emulating.
My two bits.
smog | July 10, 18:44 CET
Speaking of which, "Grindhouse" simply isn't gorno/torture porn at all, and the mere fact that Eli is associated with the film doesn't make it any moreso. Ooo! But to make this Buffy-relevent, the guy in the bar with Eli in "Death Proof" was the weasly little photographer kid in that episode of Buffy with the zombie football hero looking for a girl made up of parts (I suck at ep. titles- my bad).
Anyway, Eli's next gig is supposed to be "Cell" from the Stephen King novel of the same name. It will be interesting to see how he does with someone else's work, particularly considering King doesn't go in for as much gore as some of his literary contemporaries.
OzLady | July 10, 20:33 CET
[ edited by smog on 2007-07-11 03:56 ]
smog | July 10, 21:55 CET
It's sad that nowadays, most movies are aimed straight at the group that is most likely to dig naked chicks- teenage boys. There are studio expectations to pander to this market, which is compounded by the problem that some directors have so many 'yes' men around them, they become out of step with the feelings of the more mature moviegoer.
But OzLady, you are in a unique position to let your cousin know just how his work is being interpreted, at least within the confines of Whedonesque's relatively intelligent, educated fandom. I hope at your next family dinner, you can oh-so-casually drop in a reference to EN and tell him about Joss's letter and auction.
Not only would it be great PR for Eli, but it'd fully count up as a Good Samaritan's act for you!
missb | July 10, 23:00 CET
Tarentino's gleeful nihilism makes for popcorn movie fun, but with kind of a bad aftertaste. Nothing you'd want to mull over like we like to mull over every second of the Jossverse. So there's probably a good reason for the lack of crossover. I haven't seen any of the other movies and probably won't.
dreamlogic | July 11, 03:56 CET
Whether we should be paying homage to those sorts of films is another question of course (especially if it's completely unapologetic about or even reverential towards some of the broader stereotypes from that era). I also think the article's a bit unfair on 'Sin City' since though the women are largely either whores or killers or both the men don't fare much better (corrupt cops, cannibals, rapists, child-molesters and *gasp* politicians ;).
I'm totally caught between the proverbials here because I can't fairly comment on these sorts of films (the so-called 'torture porn' ones I mean) without watching them but I really don't want to (despite being a horror fan, if not the complete enthusiast that some here no-doubt are). I will say though that I think the pleasure gained isn't meant to be straightforward enjoyment but more voyeuristic fascination (like a car crash) as well as the usual horror movie pleasure of 'safe fear' or, in this case, 'safe disgust'.
(and I definitely can't comment on Mr Solomon owing to the long-standing rule about balls. Playing them I mean ;)
Saje | July 11, 05:42 CET
OzLady | July 11, 09:07 CET