The CW's Dawn Ostroff comments on the Spike movie.
She tells reporters "We typically don't do movies of the week but never say never. But we have not had conversations with Joss Whedon about a Spike movie". And according to MSNBC, she added we "would love to be in business with Joss".
Deja vu or what?
July 21 2007
You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.
The One True b!X | July 21, 02:46 CET
Apocalypse | July 21, 03:11 CET
Simon | July 21, 03:15 CET
dreamlogic | July 21, 03:21 CET
Joss himself has said over a year ago that T.V./DVD movies are not happening so I don't see why Ausiello brings it up again now since Joss is telling some of his stories he had planned for the T.V./DVD films in the canon Buffy season 8 and Angel:After The Fall comics.
It just feels like a dead horse is being beaten on the T.V./DVD movie front by bringing it up again at this point.
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2007-07-21 00:48 ]
Buffyfantic | July 21, 03:32 CET
Harmalicious | July 21, 04:03 CET
daylight | July 21, 05:02 CET
or if Joss is reading this he should contact her immediately and take her up on the sorta offer.
But I agree, the comics are doing it for me.
ChosenOne5376 | July 21, 05:33 CET
Which is still a heart breaker for me personally, because the comics are so not doing it for me, and never will. I just don't get anything out of the medium.
The Buffyverse for me has always been and always will be live human actors on the screen, speaking dialog. Even a really excellent piece of fanfic comes a whole lot closer to taking me back to that world than comics, even written by Joss himsef. So for me, it's just over. *Goes off to cry a little.*
Shey | July 21, 06:43 CET
spikeylover | July 21, 09:19 CET
This interests me. Is there actually something about comics that makes it possible to say this in a way you never, ever could about e.g. film or novels or music ? Something which somehow reduces the experience so that fan-fic, however good it is, is better than stuff direct from Joss' pen ?
(not just being rhetorical BTW, I genuinely wonder if/what it might be)
Re: the articles, blah, blah, network speak, blah, blah, placate fans speak, blah, blah etc. I think as others have implied "would love to be in business with Joss" is a lot like "would love to be able to play the guitar". Sure, it'd be great to pull out at parties but most people can't be arsed with the hard work required to do it and if you really want to, what's stopping you, right ?
Saje | July 21, 12:48 CET
So, yeah, you should be so lucky, Dawn.
gossi | July 21, 13:18 CET
A novelization written by Joss would be ideal for me, since I could then do all the image construction in my head. If that makes any sense.
jlp | July 21, 13:46 CET
I have enjoyed Bryan Lynch's Spike comics immensely because they feel true to the character and the shows, which brings me to the Spike movie. I'm not sure why some are doubting Dawn Ostroff's sincerity on this. James Marsters said at Fangoria he felt the CW would have done the Spike movie, especially after his appearance on Smallville, if Joss had wanted to do it as a TV movie but Joss did not want to take it to television. You can't fault the CW for that.
Sadly, I agree that the ship has sailed on this project but I have to love Ausiello for asking about it.
iowagirl | July 21, 13:49 CET
And that apparent unwillingness to put money in the region of oral orifices is why I doubt the sincerity somewhat.
Re: comics, the dissonance thing makes sense to me, that's always a struggle going from one representation of a character to another, especially when they're both visual (for instance it's harder for me to 'see' my own version of a book character after i've watched the film/TV version, not so difficult to adjust from novel to film cos no matter how able our mind's eye, it's not usually as able as our, err, eye's eye ;).
The 'doing stuff he couldn't do on TV' doesn't make as much sense (to me) because if fan-fic doesn't do that then that strikes me more as a limitation of fan-fic. I mean, if you're creating in a medium not limited by things like budget or effects technology, why on Earth would you impose those limits on yourself (unless it was some stylistic experiment) ? If you don't need to compromise, why not always make the choice that best suits the story/characters ?
And Buffy's message as I see it is definitely one that benefits from a global scale, it's a global issue after all.
Saje | July 21, 14:33 CET
And in my perception, there is an ever present element in comics of characterature,(sp) that two-dimensional quality that plays against depth and complexity.
And while I'm glad for all the buffyverse fans who apprerciate comics in a way I never have, I would truly love to see Joss move back into the world of flesh and blood characters on screen, either film or TV.
Shey | July 21, 15:15 CET
To some extent though (just IMO and no offence meant ;) your position is a bit like saying "'Commando' has very two-dimensional characters therefore I get nothing from the medium of film". Clearly, what's true of some (even many/most) films isn't true of the medium as a whole.
Like I say though, each to their own, comics aren't everyone's bag for a variety of reasons and that's supercool ;).
Saje | July 21, 16:24 CET
The Spike movie just won't die, will it? That's a good thing, by the way. It's as if it is just waiting for the right set of circumstances to come into being. I'm not sure that now is the time to be doubting it will ever happen. In the last year Star Trek, Highlander, the X-Files, Babylon 5 and Farscape have all been brought back into existence from situations no more dire than how the Buffyverse currently stands. Farscape's rebirth came around from absolutely no fan effort whatsoever so I can't imagine why a Spike movie needs to be so difficult to make happen.
WhedonTrivia | July 21, 16:39 CET
The answer is in your question, there. Farscape -- studio wanted to make something. Spike movie -- studio didn't want to pay for something properly (see also: Buffy animated).
One potentially industry changing event coming up at the end of this month -- the Babylon 5 Direct-To-DVD project comes out. Trailer here. If that sells millions worth, expect 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment and the like to get their original programming departments a budget.
gossi | July 21, 16:46 CET
As I said above, given how everything old seems to be new again (in the eyes of the networks and studios, at least) I think that right now is not the best time to doubt Dawn Ostroff. I'd say that she might like the certainty of a Joss Whedon project on The CW schedule right about now. Maybe not the Spike movie but who knows? A month ago I wouldn't have put money on seeing new Farscape.
WhedonTrivia | July 21, 16:58 CET
WhedonTrivia | July 21, 17:06 CET
Don't get me wrong, the comics are infinitely better than no Buffy, and I'm digging them. They's probably not gonna ever adequately replace film and actors for me, though.
jlp | July 21, 17:47 CET
And it seems to me that we will probably get answers on the matters of what Willow was up to and what really was going on with Dawn, it seems that Joss is just going to leave us in the dark on the rest and that is unsettling.
One of the reasons I love the series so much is the character interaction and to have some major unresolved character issues simply ignored is frustrating.
So yes, I think a novel would be better for me, I’m not terribly interested in seeing Willow floating all the time or how impressive their base can get. I want my characters to be meaningful and whole again!
AthenaMuze | July 21, 17:49 CET
Which is also true of the Stargate D2DVD films since MGM have supported them all along and seen the 'franchise' as still very viable despite SG-1 being cancelled (there's possibly a second spin-off as well as a MMORPG in the works too).
I think it's not so much everything old = new, more studios/networks realising that installed fan-bases give you a head start against newly launching shows. Wow, talk about a revelation ;). The success or otherwise of the Stargate/B5 DVDs and even stuff like the 'Sanctuary' web TV show could make a big difference in how those delivery mechanisms are seen by studios etc. Here's hoping they're good and successful.
Re: Farscape, i'm still not sure how I feel about the webisodes since a) it seems like Browder and Black may not appear - not sure about the rest of the cast - and b) call it childish but it sort of rankles that Sci-fi should benefit from the show after the extremely shoddy way it and its fans were treated. Still, if it's good and leads to more Farscape on TV, can't be all bad.
(and man that B5 trailer looks decent, might be that rare thing - a DVD i'm willing to pay full price for ;)
One of the reasons I love the series so much is the character interaction and to have some major unresolved character issues simply ignored is frustrating.
Well, we won't know they've been ignored until the end ;). I think the biggest issue people seem to have with the comics is how slow they move compared to a TV show and that is a genuine downside of the medium (unless you have teams working to produce a weekly title) but it was, what, 5 or 6 episodes until we found out what the hell was going on with Dawn (re: the whole key thing in the show) ? Personally I never doubted we would though and in general, one of the things I liked about the show was the subtle fore-shadowing Joss did from a story and character perspective. Strikes me he's just doing the same thing in the comics only where we'd have found out in weeks before, now it'll take months or even years. Must confess, I 'get' the impatience thing above all other complaints cos waiting's not really my forté either but that's comics.
I finish every issue in about 12 minutes; that seems too fast, or is it normal?
Sounds about right. Dunno how 'normal' this is but with a comic I really care about, especially one that seems 'dense' from an allusion/metaphor perspective (and if Buffy isn't then a bunch of us have sure wasted a lot of time picking it apart ;) i'll read it once for enjoyment, again for meaning and then maybe parts a third time for an 'art pass'. I don't take notes or whatever, just don't want to miss anything ;). Course, an individual issue isn't going to have as much going on as a novel or TV show, it's only 22 pages and maybe 300-400 words long, max.
Saje | July 21, 18:29 CET
The Spike movie? Eh. As someone mentioned, why is Ausiello beating a dead horse once again? I highly doubt the CW would be anymore inclined to get a Spike movie going just as the WB was. This might not be a popular opinion, but for once I wish someone would ask about other characters getting a movie. Like Faith for instance. It's a long shot that it would ever happen, for various reasons, but it would be so much more refreshing than hearing about a Spike movie once more after all this time. Three years of the same outcome gets boring. If the CW or which ever network or financer doesn't want to do it, just say it.
maje | July 21, 19:17 CET
saje, it was said better by jlp than I've been able to say it ...."cognitive dissonance" and "the world of Buffy for me is supposed to be 3D, flesh and blood". A book is a different animal. All words :-) so you can create your own mental images.
And in my perception, there is an ever present element in comics of characterature,(sp) that two-dimensional quality that plays against depth and complexity.
Shey | July 21, 12:15 CET
To some extent though (just IMO and no offence meant ;) your position is a bit like saying "'Commando' has very two-dimensional characters therefore I get nothing from the medium of film". Clearly, what's true of some (even many/most) films isn't true of the medium as a whole.
Saje | July 21, 13:24 CET
Actually, saje what shey & jlp said rang a bell in my head. I have no idea if it is the bell they were ringing, but it made something come into focus that I have been experiencing.
I realized that for me, comics take away the total visual imaginings of novels, where the narration combined with the reader's imagination gives layers of content, and they also take away the visual and emotional content that actors/directors/composers/musicians/technicians/etc. bring to feed the viewer's imagination. They replace these things with art work that IMO does not and cannot by it's nature, have the subtlety and layering of actual moving human faces and bodies or of a novel's narration. I'm guessing it is not supposed to. I am assuming it is, when combined with the text, supposed to spark the same imaginative flood of emotion and layered content of the other media. I am also guessing that for comic book fans, it does. For me, so far, it does not. It keeps me in a middle ground, not connecting to the material the way that I do to either of the others.
Perhaps it is something like language itself that some theories say one has to be introduced to before puberty or you never really have a innate understanding of it. The only comic I remember reading as a kid was an Archie comic once in a blue moon. Books, TV and movies on the other hand were everywhere. It may just not be something that will ever have the power to touch my imagination that way.
...Plus, as established, very little actual content per issue with issues very far apart is apparently the norm. That is the one thing that actually upsets me. It makes me disconnect emotionally. Here I am trying to get connected through the obstacles I find with the medium and then it leaves me unsatisfied with what it is doing for period that could amount to years. I cannot waste emotional time on something like that. So if I do start caring, at the end of what is supposed to be an arc, when I am left totally unsatisfied, I feel cheated and I disconnect. Frustration is something I deal with constantly in everyday life, it is not what I look for in my entertainment.
[ edited by newcj on 2007-07-21 16:32 ]
newcj | July 21, 19:31 CET
As for the comic books, I'm enjoying them, but the problem for me is that Buffy is a moving image with actors the way Lassie is a collie. Due to budget and time reasons, Lassie is now a beagle. The beagle does all the same things, and beagles are great, and I like the stories, but I'm still trying to get my head around Lassie being a beagle.
Shapenew | July 21, 19:55 CET
I am not the least bit hopeful for a Spike movie, but I would be ecstatic if it happened. I don't think it will, not because of the networks but because I don't think Joss wants it. I think Joss is satisfied with the comics because he has such total control over them.
The Buffy Season eight comics have been very disappointing to me. They just aren't working for me. Most of it is for a lot of the reasons already mentioned above.
It is hard to really get emotionally involved in something that you only get to experience for about five minutes every couple of months. Plus, all these inconsistencies with my Buffy view that I just don't get. Such as Willow being like a mom to Dawn, etc. The comic seems so shallow, jumping from plot point to plot point with very little explanation of how we got there, or exploration of how the characters feel. No emotional resonance. Like an action movie that's all action and no character.
I am a fan fic reader and have found many stories that are nearly as satisfying emotionally as the series was. The comics don't even come close.
Saying that, I don't know why but I have found Spike Asylum, and Shadow Puppets so far, to be immensely enjoyable in a way that Buffy season 8 has not been. It feels a lot more like I am watching an episode. It makes no sense that it would be true, seeing that Joss is writing season 8 but it is. I could perhaps chalk it up to me being a Spike fan first but I don't think that it is. I didn't feel that way about the first few Spike comics. These Brian Lynch ones really work. I have high hope for the Angel one coming.
Xane | July 21, 20:14 CET
newcj | July 21, 20:26 CET
So they're like the worst of both worlds ? I can kind of see that. Not really examined it in any detail but it could be that regular comics readers mainly imagine the 'pictures' and get an extra buzz of resonance when they match what the artist has done ? Or use the images to 'key' further pictorial imaginings ? Not sure. I do know that I get the same sort of buzz out of a dramatic and well drawn comic image as I do out of e.g. the Reaver fleet emerging from the nebula in 'Serenity' and easily as much emotional resonance as from any other medium (when the comic's done well obviously).
And re: Spike, yep, I think you hit the nail newcj, Brian Lynch is no slouch at the old writing lark and has Spike's voice down to a 'T' but I think he's having to keep fewer balls in the air than Joss is in Buffy 'Season 8' and has the 'luxury' (in some ways - please don't kill me Brian ;) of non-canonicity i.e. of just being able to tell a great story (featuring one main character and one narrative thread) without having to worry about disturbing an entire fictional universe. Also, knowing the end-point allows us as readers to judge the pace of the story better and having fewer issues to tell it is bound to mean less set-up from Brian's perspective (Joss' first arc of S8 is more like an opening episode in a season - and who wouldn't expect to still have questions after the opening episode, even relating to characters we thought we knew ?).
I'm sure he's well up to the task but I think "Angel: What-even-is-season-6 ?" with its ensemble cast of several distinct 'voices' and canonical ramifications will be another thing entirely and we could find it takes a bit longer to get going (i.e. more set-up) and offers a bit less character development (because there're more to service). Very much looking forward to seeing Mr Brian Lynch esq. get the chance to write for the rest of the fang gang (assuming any survived ;), should be good.
Saje | July 21, 21:04 CET
With the Buffy Season 8 its like I'm watching it from a distance. Kind of a "this happens, and this happens, and then this happens next" and it could definitely be because there is just so much more that has to happen. Too much then, would be my guess. I just don't feel it.
Xane | July 21, 21:29 CET
Saje | July 21, 18:04 CET
I don't think three to five characters is necessarily all that many to service. Especially if some of them are working together and Lorne does not show up for a while. ;-)
newcj | July 21, 21:42 CET
AthenaMuze | July 21, 21:53 CET
I hope the question continues to be asked and I hope that Dawn OStroff is being real about being open to the opportunity to work with Joss. If she's not, then lets make a noise and persuade her that there is an audience and press for Joss TV movies. Who would have thought Buffy would be competing with Marvel and DC in the top 10 every month?
ChosenOne5376 | July 21, 22:35 CET
Of course I've also always been a big comic geek, so seeing Joss do Buffy/Angel/Serenity in comics is like a dream. As a matter of fact, when he started Astonishing I immediately thought that he should take all of his shows into comics. For me, though I adore the actors for the most part, what matters most to me is the story... and with this one, Joss has treated me well.
Now on the topic of a Spike movie, I have pretty much given up on that (as well as any OTHER live-action Buffyverse project) EVER happening. That said, seeing it happen would be the coolest thing Joss could announce next to a big screen Buffyverse flick. Spike has been one of my favorite characters ever (Joss or not), so I'll always be up for more stories about him... if they're good.
Asylum was very enjoyable (though there was one cover that I REALLY didn't like). The way Brian had Spike narrating it felt a lot like a Wolverine comic, and I always used to enjoy reading Wolverine (when it had good writers).
I think I may have trailed off a bit there... Oh well! I'm sure you all get my point.
Yay me on my longest post ever!
Daburcor | July 21, 22:51 CET
..which had nothing to do with the movie going in production.
People at The WB were saying the same thing about the Spike movie years ago. Hence Simon's comment at the beginning of the topic -- 'Deja vu or what?'. It totally is. Every so often an exec gets asked a question about this, and they all say 'Yeah, we'd love to do that!'. And then don't bother even calling Joss to speak about it. So you know. It be bullshit to keep people happy.
gossi | July 21, 23:15 CET
In all the recent cases of returning shows you have two main things in common. A fanbase that won't go away and a creator who wants to tell more stories. Chris Carter has always believed that he could get another X-Files going and he has finally got the players back into place to do so. JMS will likely never give up attempting to get new Babylon 5 stories to us. Joss has just as much chance of getting the ball rolling with a new live action Buffyverse project as any of these examples.
I'm not saying that I believe Dawn Ostroff went home that night and immediately started calling Joss and leaving messages for him to get in touch with James Marsters. Of course she didn't. What I'm saying is that the television climate seems to be right for a return of the Buffyverse (or at least some sort of Whedon series) to our screens and if Ostroff is even slightly serious about the potential then the last thing we need to do now is ignore the idea entirely. Ultimately this happening will begin with Joss pushing it so we should make sure that he knows that we still want it. Be realistic and don't expect miracles, sure. Just don't let previous let downs discourage any hope entirely because the only way this project will definitely never happen is if we stop seeming to care either way.
WhedonTrivia | July 21, 23:47 CET
I think the time of the Spike movie and the other T.V./DVD movies has honestly passed for various reasons.In the case of the Spike movie,I do think James Marsters age is factor.He looks great but it is a issue and something Joss himself said he agreed with Marsters on.That there is a limited window for that character to return in live action since both want Spike to remain a vampire.I think that window has now passed.That's one advantage the comics have for both Spike and Angel.You don't have worry about the actors aging.I also seem to recall somewhere that the various ideas for the T.V./DVD movies are now being used in the canon comics.There was a interview a while back which revealed that the plot of the Faith movie is being used for the upcoming arc(issues 6-9) in the season 8 comics for example.And the Spike movie was going to reveal what happened in the alley but now After The Fall will do that.It seems that Joss got tired of waiting around trying to get financing for these projects and is just working them into the canon comics at Dark Horse and IDW.
Now that doesn't mean Joss can't create new stories for an on-screen continuation if one should happen.He said for instance that the season 8 comics wouldn't prevent a Buffy movie if one became a real possibility.But I think the Spike movie,Faith movie,and the other DVD movies have lost their window and we'll be seeing those stories in the comics.If there is another Buffyverse project that makes it to the screen it will most likely be something different from those.
Recently Tony Head said that Joss is still interested in the Giles BBC thing and they still talk about doing it.Maybe that still has the best shot from the previous aborted projects.
I think another idea that has never been mentioned but might work is a all CGI Buffy movie with all the original cast doing the voice work.It would let Joss have even more freedom then a live action film,would work as a theatrical film,and I bet all the cast would be willing to come back for that even SMG and DB since it would just be voice work.They have both said they would be willing to do a film if the script is great.A CG animated film might be an interesting way to do it and certainly would be easier on them physically.Plus you don't have to worry about vampire age issues for either DB or JM.I think Fray also would work great as a CG film.
Buffyfantic | July 22, 01:44 CET
Shey | July 22, 14:07 CET
'Cos I'm mean.
:-)
[ edited by missb on 2007-07-23 16:04 ]
missb | July 22, 18:36 CET
zeitgeist | July 23, 02:04 CET
dreamlogic | July 23, 08:35 CET
"Before she had worked at 20th Century Fox Television as Senior Vice President of Creative Affairs, where she was involved in the development of new comedy and drama series for the 1996-97 season, including King of the Hill for FOX, Buffy the Vampire Slayer for The WB and The Practice for ABC."
zeitgeist | July 23, 17:09 CET
It's also true that 'Veronica Mars' was given an unusually decent chance by US TV standards, if that was her doing then maybe she deserves a fairer crack of the whip.
Saje | July 23, 17:26 CET
zeitgeist | July 23, 18:15 CET
I'm disillusioned with network television right now. I'm sick to death of watching shows I love get cancelled and then having to put up with the endless glut of mindless reality on my screen. I see shows with such initial promise being 'dumbed down' to fit the lowest common denominator. I'm even beginning to hold out grave fears for 'Heroes'.
In other words, we are a viewing audience that have the means to purchase fancy huge televisions...and yet we have nothing to watch on them.
Is it Dawn's fault? Not sure, but as a network head she's part of the problem AND the solution.
I wasn't a fan of S3 VM, and she IS responsible for airing 'Beauty and the Geek'. James Marsters had some criticisms about the way his scripts were handled on 'Smallville', which I hope does not affect his future dealings with the CW.
Kudos to Dawn for the shows on her network that DO have a little more depth, which almost, but not quite, make up for the 'Pussycat Dolls' and 'Farmer Wants A Wife' drivel.
I guess that's where the handy little OFF switch on my TV comes in handy!
missb | July 23, 19:03 CET
zeitgeist | July 23, 22:29 CET