This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I've got red in my ledger, I'd like to wipe it out."
11944 members | you are not logged in | 25 July 2014












September 07 2007

Joss interviews Brian K. Vaughan. Which character, other than Faith, does Brian love? Which Scooby and Runaway would he team up? Click and witness this shameless display of graphic nerdity.

How much is the rent in Nerdo City?

ETA, because awesome: "They're called fire fighters, Mr. Equality Now."

ETA again, to explain that my comment made sense before the word "nerdocity" was removed from the post.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2007-09-07 03:34 ]
That was great. It made me hope that Dark Horse does one of those script-to-final product flash thingies for a few BKV pages likes they did for Joss.
Damn, that was fun!

Except, y'know, for the part about killing Willow, which drew a heart-rending shriek from me. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go calm down the neighbors. Or be arrested. Whatever...
711 and Xander! Oh yeah.
Joss Whedon: a madman with foyers.
I wish I was a fly on the wall during that interview. Lord. He'd better totally be joking about the Willow thing. Although, knowing what Vaughn just pulled over on Y, I'm not sure it is a joke...*shudders*

Geek.Tastic.
Joss: "It's me! It's exactly me only I'm attractive and resemble Chewitel Ejiofor!"

BWAHAHAHAHA!!
711 and Xander? Chase and Xander? JW and BKV need to STAY OUT OF MY DREAMS.

Terrific interview, and I'll be checking out the series they recc'd.
Great interview.

The firemen thing...that cracked me the hell up.
Dear Buddha, please let Joss be yankin' our chain about killing Willow. I don't know if I could get over the heartbreak.
Love the two Jo Chen covers. Woman is mad brilliant! They were both classy and simple and went to the heart of the characters. They, in my tiniest of opinions, are exactly what trade covers should be.
*giggle giggle snort*

You know, there probably should be a law against those two working together. They have entirely too much fun, for which I thank them.

And I thought the idea about the guy and his pet monkey (and the one-breasted woman, and the ninja) would totally rock out. ;)
OT but I just read the new Y and I take back everything nice I ever said about Mr. Vaughn. For shame, for shame!! I feel like singing some torch song wondering why he wants to brake my heart so.
I just read the new Y and I take back everything nice I ever said about Mr. Vaughn. For shame, for shame!! I feel like singing some torch song wondering why he wants to brake my heart so.

I was totally stunned. BKV pulled a Seeing Red. The one question on killing made me wonder if Joss had already read No. 58 of Y.
Hey, I already had Willow with Karolina! Damn that Joss!
"I think that the vast majority of ideas are essentially neutral in terms of potential awesomeness. It all comes down to execution."

Yes! It is so annoying when (haters) people boil down a story to its 2 second soundbite, and then wonder what makes it special.

I'm thinking about the current run on AXM. I know that other comics have (non-flying) super-heroes fall from orbit and survive in the space of 2 panels (and no drama), but sometimes it is nice to take the time to see that it should be a panic-inducing, underwear-needs-cleaning sorta moment.
In my world, Willow teams up with one person only, but then that person remains stubbornly dead, because Joss doesn't feel the "magic" of them anymore.

Bah! Humbug! The writer is obviously oblivious to golden-haired opportunities.

Here's hoping the lesbian couple Joss based Willow and Tara on gives him some personal motivation. Whoever you gals are (and you probably know who you are), would you lean on him a bit, just for us W&T fans?

Won't work, huh?

Oh well, there's always fanfic.
BKV's "Well, Willow had it coming" made me laugh out loud for nearly half a minute. (Yes, I simply refuse to use the acronym.)
Fun read. Just so long as no one kills Andrew, we're cool.
I didn't understand the 711 reference. I'm still fairly new to comic books, please help me be a bigger nerd. Or just kill me. Whatever.
dreamlogic, 711 is a character in Brian K. Vaughan's brilliant series 'Y the Last Man' (which I cannot recommend enough). She gave Yorick quite a freaking night/comic book issue, and Joss is just thinking that others might have benefited from her brand of kinky er alternative um um... actually you would have to read it. I also have to say that I am loving 'ExMachina' and I bought a copy of 'Pride of Baghdad' for my niece (of course I read it first and loved it) and I think that Vaughan's creativity and imagination are as awesome as his writing.

[ edited by embers on 2007-09-07 16:59 ]
embers beat me to the punch. 711 is one of the most memorable supporting characters in Y, and would have been a much more worthy adversary for Xander than that pop princess whose name I can't even remember.

I regard "Safeword" as Pia Guerra's best work in the series, my favorite of all the trades.
I've flipped through Y the Last Man at the comic book store a bit, but so far resisted. BTW, Meltdown is the same comic book store I go to, but I never see Joss there.

I suppose that my expansion as a nerd is is inevitable.
QuantumMC, you know I'm with you, right? And sunfire, you know I'm not? :-)

But hey, if there is no flaxen-haired stuttershylady, I can take Karolina- and don't get me started on her girlfriend/boyfriend/alienfriend who is not really gay but just a shapeshifter! :-)
Dana5140: Yep, I remember you are. We W&T fans gotta keep the dream alive, cause Tara deserves to be resurrected if any Buffy character does. :)
I was kidding before. I need a special font, since I seem to suck at tone lately. I like Willow. And I totally want Andrew to die in an ironic yet surprisingly heroic scene that involves a Star Wars reference.

I didn't use the font there because that last bit's not entirely untrue.
LOL, sunfire. I did not get the tone. I'm okay with him going bye bye and it can be without any Star War reference.

I happen to love Runaways, and live in fear that Joss will off Molly. Molly is the heart and soul of that series, imho.

As to Willow and Tara, well now! Long live Chris Golden, for the moment. :-)
Joss could never "off Molly"...*gulp*..could he?

eta: A Gert and Tara team up in some other place would be great.

[ edited by silvius on 2007-09-07 19:36 ]
I'm still waiting on pins and needles for Joss to bring back Gert, I can't even think about anyone hurting Molly! And I think it is hilarious how BKV kept turning the tables and asking Joss questions.
One giant brain so brilliant it had to express itself in TWO uber-talented individuals.

I am happy that the two brain halves we call BKV and JW have finally been reunited.
That was pretty cool!





And... am I the only one who doesn't like Tara?
oh, and...

Graphic Nerdity AND foyerism?

What has the genre been reduced to?
Hjermsted said: "Graphic Nerdity AND foyerism?"

Now Joss & Brian are kicking themselves that THEY didn't say that!
They'd technically be kicking eachother, what with the whole brain thing...ok, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Hi. I'm Vince. What's going on in here?
Daburcor: yes! A thousand times yes!

As to Gert and Tara, the mind boggles: Tert? Gara? But then Willow and Karolina would be Willolina or Karillow....
Hey, at least if they kill off Willow, Willow and Tara will be together again, albeit in an afterlife kind of way...

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Joss DOES kill Willow off. Even if BKV or someone else pulls the trigger, you know that it would have had to have been personally loaded by Joss.
1) He's Joss, he does that.
2) Willow has now been established as so powerful, she is walking deus ex machina. Recall in AtS5 how she had to be "unavailable" because otherwise Angel would have relied upon her to solve his problems.
3) She's just survived great peril. Now's the time we're least expecting her to die, so it's the perfect time to kill her.

At any rate, I'm a pessimist so I'm always either right or pleasantly surprised, to paraphrase George F. Will. :-)
"Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Joss DOES kill Willow off."

I know what you mean. I always expected that Joss'd kill off one of the Scoobies, and when Xander went up against Caleb, I thought he was going to.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Joss DOES kill Willow off.


Shall we start taking bets now? :(

I don't think they'd do it immediately. But I do agree. After everything that's happened in the series, it would be the most jarring thing that could happen to the Scoobies.
Not going to happen. Not if he wants this series to be read. Just like he ain't going to kill Molly. Willow is the driving force of the show, not Buffy- and boy, I know that comment will ignite a firestorm. Take Willow out and you lose the point of identification for more than half your readers.

I'll take the bet. What is it?
This is assuming I actually have money, but if Joss was gonna kill one of the core Scoobies, I'd say the first choice would be Xander or Giles. I think he'd be reluctant to kill Willow, and Buffy's already bit it twice.

I wasn't around back then, but from what I gather, the whole Willow/Tara thing caused a huge blowout. And while Joss certainly isn't afraid to rip people's hearts out, I also think he doesn't want WWIII to break out in the fandom. Then again, you never know...
Look, one dead lesbian is enough, you know? You think he wants to go down that road again? Not me!

BTW, anyone know if Faith survives this 4-issue arc? Just asking!

And that whole Willow/ Tara thing? Still causing a huge blowout, to some. Ask Chris Golden.
I don't know, Dana. Apparently BKV is good with the killing, too. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I don't know. If the story were good, I wouldn't mind him killing Willow. Fred was one of my favorite characters (Joss or not), and though it was sad when he killed her, it was also great. One of Angel's best moments. Same goes for Wesley. If Joss wrote it, I'm sure a second dead lesbian would be fine. ;)
Okay, here is my body count of reoccurring characters by season:
1st: Principal Flutie and Buffy
2nd: Jenny Calendar, Kendra, and Angel
3rd: Snyder and Harmony (is that right? No one else died?)
4th: only members of the initiative, which also seems strange
5th: Joyce and Buffy
6th: Tara and Warren
7th: Jonathan, Anya, and Spike
So I guess it is possible we could get through Season 8 with only a few random deaths, but pretty much I figure we have to anticipate that we are due for another beloved character bitting the big one.
OTOH if Joss kills off anyone too important (like one of our core four) then it does limit the fun in Season 9.

I guess I will bet that Willow will live, how much now?
There is a very strange sense of entitlement among fans of Joss Whedon. Who wants to read a story that's a result of a tip-toeing writer, fearful of his audience's wrath? Not me. And not anyone who respects that writer or their work.

If killing Willow, or killing every character EXCEPT Willow (or everyone except Clem, for that matter) makes for the best story, then that's what I want to read. In comic book form, when you're not dealing with contracted actors, nothing is sacred.

Anyways, this is a lot of craziness over a joke.
...if nerdical expansion continues at an increasing rate along...What are you looking at? Leave me alone, I'm thinking!
This is a silly discussion.

Whoever dies it will be spectacular and heart-wrenching. And you will keep reading the comic and (hopefully, someday) watching the shows.

Never forget who your master is now.
Actually, I won't. I didn't then. And if they kill Sara Sidle on CSI, I'll be gone.

But Willow is safe as can be. That, I am sure of.
He'd better not kill Satsu.
I'm in full agreement with dingoes8. I want the story and if killing the characters makes good story, I'm all for it.

I hope that Joss and Brian do the right thing and completely ignore all fandom rantings.
Yes, I agree with dingoes8, Hjermsted and TamaraC. Its all about the wild ride and not knowing what is next. Life isn't all tied up with pretty bows and always getting what you want. Joss gets that and that's why I love his stuff. Its his verse and I'm just a happy spectator.
Good for you all! This is what I love about media fandom, that there are so many different viewpoints. For Tamara and cookie, they are happy to be given whatever comes out of Joss' creative mind. And that is perfectly fine and one way to approach his creations. Mine is, as most everyone knows, different. I tend to look more into conception and reader-response; to me, there certainly are calculations to the decisions writers and creators make, especially when they live in worlds that depend on the sale of their commodity. Dark Horse wants to sell comics, and they want Joss involved. I have little doubt that we shall see killings down the road, but I do not see those killings involving Buffy, Willow or Xander (I do not include Giles here, for I think he is at greatest risk of the core Scooby group). Too many people identify with those three characters. For the same reason, no matter what anyone says about it, Joss will not kill Molly in Runaways. Sales would plummet. Coke produced new coke- and hey, they are creators, too, of a product that they want the public to buy- and the public stopped buying. Now, I know that perhaps this is an unfair comparison, but I am making a point. There is a comic to sell, with an audience that has come to identify with what is being sold. Had I been the one to have had dinner with Joss, this is the conversation I'd have had with him, using Tara as a starting point. How much does consumer choice influence what you do? It did with Spike, obviously; he was supposed to be a one-shot but audience response altered that. And it may have with Tara, who in some reports was set to die as early as S5.

We all define a good story in different ways. They speak to us, somehow. I, for example, like to be spoiled; I like to know in advance what is going to happen. Others really hate that. If bad things happen to characters I care for, I tune out. Others don't. It's the beauty of difference. Maybe I am just hyperanalytical but I don't accept unreservedly anything those authors I love give to me.
Dana5140, I understand your viewpoint, but I think you overestimate the negative effect on sales or fan loyalty that the death of certain characters might have. I understand that Willow is of special importance to you, and that was the joke (forshadowing?) in the interview, but it really applies to everyone.

Let's look at the list of TV characters Joss has killed to date. For kicks, I'm going to split them up into a few subjective categories.
Very Popular: Fred, Wesley, Tara, Jenny, Wash
Reasonably popular/some loved 'em, some didn't: Doyle, Buffy*, Kendra, Snyder, Anya, Jonathan, Angel**, Spike, Book
Unpopular (excluding villains): Flutie

* Yes, sacrilege. ;-)
** Angel didn't really die, but getting stabbed in the chest and sucked into hell kinda acounts.
Then let's look at the remaining list of popular characters:
Oz (self-exile)
Gunn (mortally wounded, fighting for his life)
Spike, Angel (fighting for their lives)
Willow (recovering magic addict)
Xander (maimed)
Giles (Andrew)

And the not-so-popular characters:
Illyria (fighting for its life)
Riley (happily married off)
Andrew (still breathing, darnit)
Lorne (walked away)
Connor (walked away, too)
Dawn (giant dawn!)

Of course, we have the minor characters who we haven't yet found conclusions for: Harmony, Anne, Nina, Gwen, Clem, Kate, all the slayers who survived Chosen, etc.

The conclusion I tend to draw from this is that the *more* popular a character is, the *more likely* tragedy is to befall them. Thus, I think anyone who says Willow is unequivocally safe is not objectively evaluating Joss' prior treatment of important characters.
I was a bit stunned when Brian K. Vaughn mentioned Bill Mantlo- a writer long passed over by much of the comics media- and I was also impressed by his efforts to support some of the unrecognized comic creators who got squat for their efforts to comics in the past. It would have been easy to just talk about current successes in the interview, so it was nice to see the big guys of comics talk about the "little guys of comics who aren't as well known" and give them their due, as much as possible. :)
Dana I agree with your analysis that the Scoobies are probably safe, but I wish people would not throw out these made up "statistics" about fandom like:

"Take Willow out and you lose the point of identification for more than half your readers."

How do you know that? How can you or anyone be so sure which character most readers/viewers identify with?

The first time I saw you assert this, I thought about it for a long time because I had never thought about who I identified with in the story...and for that I thank you...though saying that it was your opinion would have made me think about it just as much. I thought it was interesting and revealing that I found that though I identified with most of the characters at some point in the overall story, the one I most consistently identified with was Buffy, who I did not even count as a favorite character. Friends I have introduced to BtVS like or love Willow, but she is also not who they identify with. I have no idea who most BtVS fans identify with. I am guessing it is pretty spread out because that is how the characters were written, to give everybody someone to relate to.

I think we all make a mistake if we assume our own group, especially when they were brought together by a mutual love of a particular thing, represents the rest of the world.
In Buffy, I think I may just relate most to Xander. He's pretty average. I've never identified with Willow.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home