This is not going to end well.

Simon | September 27, 23:17 CET

I just hate to see our Captain caught in the middle.

embers | September 27, 23:37 CET

To fill this out: Nathan's photo came down off the Serenity LA site a few days ago, followed by a flurry of people trying to get ahold of Sean to see what was up.

Earlier this morning, Sean posted to the STARFURY USA boards that he would have a post about it Friday morning.

Then someone mentioned the Creation use of "only".

That's where we stand right now.

theonetruebix | September 27, 23:41 CET

Yeah, two big Serenifly conventions within a week of each other in the US. In the same place, more or less. I was actually hopefully it would all pan out okay recently, which shows how much of an idiot I am. I still hope Nathan does both and it hasn't turned into contract wars.

Things like this annoy me as I've honestly got no idea who's in the right or wrong (if anybody) with this, but Creations' note reads like 'Ner ner ner ner neeeeeeeeeeer ner'. Well done.

gossi | September 27, 23:43 CET

I'm going to the Supernatural convention in Chicago, and a lot of people who have dealt with Creation in the past, have said that, unfortunately, Creation likes to do this. They can afford to get the actors and keep other cons from getting them for themselves.

CloudyVisions | September 28, 00:44 CET

They can afford to get the actors and keep other cons from getting them for themselves.

Yes, but the weird thing here is that Nathan was announced for Serenity LA before he was announced for Creation. So it's really very unclear just what's going on here.

theonetruebix | September 28, 00:46 CET

Creation likes to do this. They can afford to get the actors and keep other cons from getting them for themselves.

That sounds like the Wal*Mart business model of fan conventions. Money invested in taking out the competition now is later recouped by jacking up the prices that captive consumers have to pay later on down the road.

BrewBunny | September 28, 00:54 CET

Precisely, BrewBunny. I'm horrified that Creation has their claws in most of the cast now, because it could mean the end of smaller conventions getting them as guests in the States. Creation just throws money at guests, and they don't make them do meet-and-greets, parties, or photos if they really don't want to. None of this would bother me so much if Creation actually put on great conventions, but IMO, they don't. Sure, they're slick and well-run, but you can't really interact with the guests, you're pushed into line after line like cattle, and they usually have huge attendance. It's so impersonal I feel like a badge number at their cons. I like smaller conventions; Creation just isn't my style. (Though I do understand there are a few people who enjoy their conventions.)

And I may not know what happened, but I can guess that if Starfury had a signed contract with Nathan before announcing him, there would now be no way Creation could be so confident in their ascertation that Nathan will not be doing any other conventions until at least December.

*Flan II flashbacks!AHGH!*

[ edited by Dizzy on 2007-09-28 02:45 ]

Dizzy | September 28, 01:28 CET

Well, this sucks rocks. I really like Sean... I hope the Evil Empire Creation hasn't f'ed him over by making it just too good a deal for Nathan NOT to do their con. Sigh...

OzLady | September 28, 02:18 CET

Well, also remember that originally Summer has amongst the guests appearing on Serenity LA's banner ads (actually, and problematically, she still does) and website guest list. And then she shortly vanished. And then she showed up booked for Creation.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2007-09-28 02:32 ]

theonetruebix | September 28, 02:21 CET

Creation doesn't just want to be a convention company - they want to be the ONLY convention company. This is what Creation does.

They do their best to try to kill competing conventions even if they had any plans to do so. Creation's Firefly con are scheduled simply for the sheer purpose of killing any hopes for Sean to prosper. Nathan or no Nathan, I would not attend this con.

Then again, I'm not too happy with Sean for stepping on the toes of the Cruise folks but at least they were able to make it work after losing any hope of getting major guests.

I have a feeling this is gonna get ugly - not Bash II ugly, but certainly not pretty.

[ edited by The Hey on 2007-09-28 02:38 ]

The Hey | September 28, 02:37 CET

Well at the cruise they do have Ron Glass and a few other folk, but I am going on the cruise primarily to hang out with other folk relax(and well its a cruise I never done that before). I wasn't too happy myself when Starfury LA was announced AFTER the folk at browncoat cruise set up their day etc... but this creation business smells quite fishy.

kurya | September 28, 02:50 CET

Of course, the way the Cruise folk describe it is that it always was primarily a Cruise, with some con stuff as frosting on the cake.

And while I get the rankledness amongst Cruise-goers when Serenity LA was announced, try to remember that if the Cruise hadn't had to keep shutting down it's process to fix stuff, they could have been booking guests earlier than they did, because they'd have had money in the bank from customers, and minimized any possible impact Serenity LA might or might not have had.

theonetruebix | September 28, 03:03 CET

RavenU is good friends with Adam, the owner of Creation. Maybe she can pop in with some inside scoop about the email announcement.

BrewBunny | September 28, 04:40 CET

Well, it's official, Nathan will not be attending starfury LA - but it has NOTHING to do wtih creation - Nathan has work committments - filming a movie outside of LA ... we're dead curious about what the movie might be -whether it's something we've yet to hear about or if it's the movie who's website i can't post here - but let's just say it's called trucker and it's a movie and you might wanna try catching it like you would a bunch of fish...

[ edited by Beth'll on 2007-09-28 09:00 ]

Beth'll | September 28, 08:42 CET

Beth'll, The thing that keeps me scratching my head about the "scheduling conflicts" explanation for Nathan's absence is Creation's email. Creation has no control over Nathan's shooting schedule and if the movie shoot were re-scheduled, then theoretically Nathan *could* appear at the Starfury con. From a legal perspective, Creation publicly advertising that Nathan would definitely *not* be at the Starfury convention would be very risky unless they actually had some contractual assurance that Nathan could not appear there.

BrewBunny | September 28, 17:50 CET

what's to say Nathan's management hasn't said that there's definitely not going to be a change in the film scheduling? Sean Harry spent time negotiating with them before he announced the cancellation - so one would assume that rescheduling of the filming isn't likely or they may have been able to work something out

[ edited by Beth'll on 2007-09-28 19:48 ]

Beth'll | September 28, 19:43 CET

Because there is a BIG legal difference between saying that "Nathan's management says that he's going to be busy the weekend of the other convention" and "Nathan is going to appear at our convention and no one else's and anything else you've been told by another convention company to the contrary is a lie." Whatever you think of their business practices, Creation has been around long enough and is sophisticated enough that I'd be surprised that they would open themselves up to fraud and libel claims so easily. But who knows. This is all pure speculation from the peanut gallery. In the heat of competition, people often do monumenally stupid things.

Note that I'm not saying that Sean didn't actually get the email from Nathan's management that he claimed to have received. Nathan may actually be filming a movie that weekend. And it's also common in all kinds of contractual negotiations that don't result in a final deal for the parties to agree on a public explanation that allows the disappointed party to save face.

[ edited by BrewBunny on 2007-09-28 20:02 ]

BrewBunny | September 28, 19:58 CET

I'm not seeing that Creation have opened themselves up for any such claims. They are stating that Nathan will only be doing their event in the LA area this year and it seems that is absolutely the case.

helcat | September 28, 20:00 CET

I'm not saying that Creation has committed any sort of fraud or libel, helcat. My bet is that they most likely did secure exclusive appearance rights from Nathan, in which case they're perfectly fine.

BrewBunny | September 28, 20:19 CET

Since I am going to the Creation con, I too received the above message in one of Creation's e-mail updates. Only a few weeks ago Creation sent out another e-mail minutes before Nathan was announced as a SerenityLA guest stating: "YOU CAN ATTEND THIS GREAT WEEKEND (which will be intimate in size to allow for great fan/celebrity interaction) for UNDER $20 A DAY!!"

That statement was followed by the announcement that they are having a Supernatural convention at the same venue on the same weekend, that both cons' guests are appearing together at their evening party/breakfast events and the vendors for both cons will be in the same room.

So suddenly it's being billed as "intimate in size" and paired with another con?! To me, this smacked of poor ticket sales. 5 days later, another e-mail arrives stating that Nathan is headlining their con. A week later, Nathan's picture is removed from the SerenityLA page. Now this.

The whole thing just smells very fishy to me and makes me believe that BrewBunny's theory is correct.

If Nathan wasn't attending, believe me, I would not be going to Creation's con. However, despite my dislike for how Creation has handled this multiple con situation, I'm not going to pass-up what may be my only opportunity to meet him.

MizBehavin1 | September 29, 00:41 CET

MizBehavin1, I'm glad to hear you are going and I'm sure you are going to have a great time meeting Nathan (as well as some other wonderful BDHs). I hope you'll come here to Whedonesque and post all about it, along with links to your photos (please do take photos!).
I imagine there are low ticket sales, since a lot of people are planning on attending Sean Henry's and/or the Browncoat cruise (is anyone actually doing all three?), but hopefully that won't detract from your fun at all.

embers | September 29, 00:56 CET

there's a real slim chance i may do all three - real slim - but as I'm coming all the way from Australia - i want to make the most of it, we don't' get a lot of cons down our way so i don't want to miss what may be my one and only chance of ever seeing Nathan, Sean & summer - attending creation will mean having to change my flight to arrive a couple of days earlier - but we shall see... I'm very disappointed that Nathan is not going to starfuy - whatever the reason - and hate that i have to support creation if I'm to see these guests.... but we shall see...

Beth'll | September 29, 01:06 CET

When Creation first announced its Serenity Con, and timed it for only a week before Starfury L.A., several people posted messages regarding their anger toward Creation's tactics.

I'm not personally familiar with all the politics and manuvering in the Sci-Fi convention world, but if one convention runner is deliberating trying to undercut another 'same theme' convention, then it seems that it's the fans who will suffer in the long run.

I wish the conventions didn't get caught up in politics or sabotage. I'm more inclined to attend a convention organized by fans, rather than a kind of impersonal, corporate entity. Of course the caveat here is a Con run by honest fans who know what they're doing, as the SoCal Browncoats did when they salvaged Flanvention II last year. Now that was an awesome convention!

11thHour | September 29, 01:10 CET

Well, in this case, I think Creation did ruin things for the fans by preventing Nathan from appearing at Starfury. The legal speak in their email confirms it. I don't believe the work commitment explanation for one second. It's an obvious cover for a contractual screw-up. So Creation cost us Nathan's appearance at Starfury. IMO, of course.

[ edited by Ninja MALi on 2007-09-29 03:15 ]

Ninja MALi | September 29, 02:37 CET

MizB, You're lucky to live in LA so that you can attend both cons. I envy you getting to see Nathan on a panel at Creation - that's always my favorite part. He always puts on such a good show for the fans. I hope you can get one of those self-portrait pics with him when you meet him! :) We're going to expect a full report from you when you get back!

[ edited by BrewBunny on 2007-09-29 02:50 ]

BrewBunny | September 29, 02:49 CET

Beth'll,

You can self-link to your own stuff in the comments. The "Do not link to your own work, please " is for new posts or Post story.

And if you think something is new post worthy and might be self-linking, you can email whedonesque@gmail.com and let Simon and/or others decide on whether it should be a new post or not.

[ edited by Anonymous1 on 2007-09-29 05:53 ]

Anonymous1 | September 29, 05:49 CET

I don't think there's anything in creation's email to indicate they actually have any kind of exclusive contract with Nathan. Until someone official states otherwise, I don't think we should be stating otherwise, opinions are fine, but stating something as fact is not. It does seem like creation saw an opportunity to make their new competition look bad and used it - but we have no evidence of anything about contracts. If Creation DID have an exclusive contract - I would think they would just SAY so why would they leave the ambiguity - what would that get them? They would have more to gain by simply stating in their email, "we have an exclusive contract with Nathan Fillion therefore he will not be appearing at any other events despite what may have been advertised" but they didn't - if they had an exclusive contract they could have, and I'm sure would have. I'm not about to stand up for Creation's way of doing things, but I don't think it's right of us to make accusations that they cost us Nathan either - when the truth may not be that at all. If Nathan is working out of the country - how is that their fault?

[ edited by Beth'll on 2007-09-29 18:07 ]

Beth'll | September 29, 10:22 CET

Beth'll, I stated nothing as fact. I said "IMO, of course." That means it is my opinion.

Ninja MALi | September 29, 21:12 CET