Buffy's Mixed Legacy: Reaper (Yay!) and Moonlight (Boo!).
"This fall season, two shows in particular are borrowing heavily from the 'Buffy' franchise."
"At its best, horror allows for writers to reveal otherwise undocumented layers of character: When people are placed in inhuman worlds, dark extremes, or fiendish circumstances, their essential natures become clearer."
"Part of the genius of Buffy was that it contextualized its major teen themes in the setting of the Hellmouth. When mom tells Buffy that the world won't end if she stays in one night, we all know it just might! The asshole jock? Demon. Mom's dorky new boyfriend? Psycho robot. The strange health teacher? Giant insect. The corrupt principal? Vampire patsy. All the normal high-school struggles become extreme battles between life and death, giving the audience a new look at classic themes."
[ edited by Pointy on 2007-10-05 22:04 ]
October 05 2007
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BrownCoat_Tabz | October 05, 13:42 CET
LiLi | October 05, 14:13 CET
FOX Executive: No.
Haunt | October 05, 14:23 CET
[ edited by shicks on 2007-10-05 20:41 ]
shicks | October 05, 14:31 CET
impalergeneral | October 05, 14:47 CET
Simon | October 05, 14:56 CET
I didn't want to like Moonlight, and yet found myself doing so anyway. Sure it's cheesy, and totally rips-off 'Angel', 'Forever Knight', and 'Kindred' (complete with dumb blonde reporter that our hero falls in love with), but it's that cheesiness that ultimately won me over. Not appointment television, for sure, but escapist fun on a Friday night. And hey, I'm always happy if a genre show can succeed... it means they'll greenlight more of them.
Spikesgurl | October 05, 15:04 CET
I haven't seen Reaper but I think why it may also do better is because it's not a BLATANT copy of a Joss show. Moonlight is so obvious that a fan of the Angel can't help but be a little rankled (in my case a lot rankled) at how much they copied Angel. Moonlight creator would've done better to have paid some homage to Joss but not try to re-create his shows.
Sorta like how in the shark thriller, Deep Blue Sea they had some moments and what not that paid homage to JAWS.
LmR | October 05, 15:05 CET
The Buffy comparisons are weird. I mean, yeah, obviously that's the style the writers and producers are going for, but it doesn't even come close in my opinion. No way would I ever think Joss or any of the Mutant Enemy team had their hands in this. For many reasons, but one of them being that the two women characters (the mom and the potential love interest) are flat, weak-willed, simple-minded and uninteresting. Other reasons being the poor pacing, stilted dialogue, simplistic monster-of-the-week set-up, character inconsistencies, and failure to really tap into the emotional metaphor each MOW represents and how that affects the main character(s).
Buffy got off to an inconsistent start, too, but from the beginning it was clear that the series was about the characters first, plot second. The monsters of the week all tied into a character arc, literally and metaphorically, from the very start.
(I miss Buffy on my TV.)
[ edited by orphea on 2007-10-05 21:07 ]
orphea | October 05, 15:05 CET
embers | October 05, 15:09 CET
Don't be surprised if it's better than the Pilot, which was itself retooled a lot, since CBS ordered the show without an official Pilot, just a about 30 minute long treatment.
But if it's actually a better episode, it might not be a trend.
I wasn't going to watch tonight's Moonlight until I found out about being a DG episode.
I'm enjoying Reaper so far, it's fun, it's no Buffy though, but it does share a little of the heart from the Scoobs.
Numfar PTB | October 05, 15:18 CET
I've been watching Reaper and Ray Wise definitely makes the show. Just the right touch of dark humour, mixed with the underlying evil which is necessary if you're the devil. ;) I find the characters and situation very similar to those on Chuck, so much so that I probably won't watch both for long (and Chuck has the advantage - Adam Baldwin!).
samatwitch | October 05, 15:37 CET
RambleOn623 | October 05, 15:38 CET
ROFL!
Love's Bitch | October 05, 15:53 CET
Not if Moonlight's already aired. Just making sure. I'll un-spoiler-tag it.
Pointy | October 05, 16:04 CET
I'll probably watch it again if the mood strikes and I'm home, but unless it starts to say just a little more about life and death, or Andi gets to do something interesting, I'll probably be outta there soon.
It's got a certain something that works well - loved the backstory of the exec consigned to Hell in episode two - and I do enjoy what Ray Wise is doing with his character... but life is just too short to watch something I don't care about that much...
QuoterGal | October 05, 16:14 CET
two_guns | October 05, 16:50 CET
There are lots of TV shows I like, but I try not to compare them to Buffy. Just leads to disappointment.
jcs | October 05, 16:51 CET
Which brings me to my last point, I don't understand why people say Bionic Woman is borrowing from Buffy. I started thinking about it and wonder if the bionic woman with Lindsay Wagner was at all an inspiration for Joss. I mean, super powerful, has an older guy with glasses handing out missions and "watching" over her, last name is SOMMERS, she was blond. Sound familiar? I heard that Kitty Pride was Joss's main inspiration for Buffy, but I think its possible there were other contributions to the mix.
Medusachick | October 05, 17:57 CET
Tonya J | October 05, 18:07 CET
I don't hate 'Reaper' but I must confess I haven't really "got" the lavish praise heaped upon it (in other threads). It's not bad, as mentioned above it seems pretty similar to 'Chuck' just with more overt metaphysical undercurrents but if not for Ray Wise it wouldn't do much for me. As it is i'll certainly check out the next one or two and then, when the time comes to start paring down my TV hours i'll decide whether to dump it or not (almost definitely won't watch it and 'Chuck', possibly neither).
'Moonlight', well, I liked the powers and the effects, and Sophia Myles, didn't like most of the writing or the terrible music montage at the end of the pilot. Might give it one more (she was The Girl in the Fireplace, after all ;) but I don't see it lasting (for me that is - for the viewing public it'll probably run and run like
'Cleavage''Charmed' did).Saje | October 05, 18:17 CET
I don't get the big deal with Reaper and all the praise that it's getting right now. And I'm just watching Moonlight for Jason Dohring. :)
CloudyVisions | October 05, 20:43 CET
I second that. I don't get the big deal, either....Reaper doesn't remind me of Btvs at all. It's premise is a whole lot like Supernatural, in my opinion.
menomegirl | October 05, 21:52 CET
Reaper is a dumb but harmless, funny and entertaining little "fluff" show. No one is gonna shoot anyone's puppy if you watch it. I personally think it's pretty good, for what it is. And I love the fact that they avoid certain cliches of this type of show, namely that it's not a person with some kind of secret that he must hide from all of his friends and family. The sitcom element doesn't revolve around him having to come up with increasingly bizarre explanations for the weird in his life just so his girlfriend or his mom and dad or his landlord or whomever doesn't find out that he's secretly a spy... or an alien, or the son of Sasquatch, or whatever. None of that nonsense because everyone knows. So instead we get him and his friends surviving weirdness together... and his parents know 'cause it's all their fault.
Anyway, I guess there's some kind of Buffy comparison to be made there. In the meantime I'm gonna go watch some Reaper AND some Supernatural.
Haunt | October 05, 22:27 CET
There are lots of TV shows I like, but I try not to compare them to Buffy. Just leads to disappointment.
(I'll learn to format quotes and turn off italics when my life slows down a little.)
Friday Night Lights has all of that IMO except quotable dialog. The FNL dialog is good, just naturalistic, so not very quote-worthy. And the humor is of the social comedy variety.
janef | October 05, 22:48 CET
Does anyone know if this ep was originally scheduled for this slot? Because last week's preview featured a prominent mention of a Celine Dion soundtrack for this week's show. Which I waited for, preparing to cringe all over again, but which didn't ever materialize. So I'm wondering if the reviews for the pilot were so universally awful that they moved their big gun/David Greenwalt ep forward, to pull in the faithful jossverse fans.
Shey | October 06, 05:11 CET
The Husband really seems to like Moonlight, so we'll probably stick it out for a while. I laughed at one line, can't remember what it was now, and was happy to find at least one moment that wasn't unrelentingly dour, but otherwise am still not excited. I can watch it and not be totally bored, but it's not doing anything much for me. Jason as Josef is nowhere near as evil and fun as Jason as first-season Logan, IMO.
Can't watch Reaper because it conflicts with House. We saw the first episode and thought it was fine, sort of Dead Like Me-ish, but I didn't mind the idea of not continuing.
[ edited by Kirochka on 2007-10-06 15:56 ]
Kirochka | October 06, 09:56 CET
The reviewer says that Reaper is original. He must not ever have watched Brimstone, which I really liked. Reaper is obviously much lighter, and he got into the business in a much different way, but sending bad guys back to hell - not original.
TexLuvsAngel | October 06, 12:37 CET
jcs | October 06, 18:04 CET
Anyway, if you want to watch it and give it a chance, skip the pilot and try this episode. Its on CBS's streaming video thing.
I've been meaning to watch "Friday Night Lights" for the past year but have managed to miss the whole first season. I've heard good things about it. I'll probably start watching this season and rent Season 1 or something.
And I haven't seen "Reaper" because I have a class at that time and record "House" and CW hasn't put full episodes online.
Arabchick | October 07, 04:01 CET
carpeffulgent | October 07, 12:15 CET
whedongeek | October 12, 17:43 CET