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"People were fighting on me"
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October 06 2007

(SPOILER) Marsters 'steals the show' in Doomsday. Nice review of Doomsday. Reviewer impressed with James Marsters' performance. (Review contains spoilers).

"...But I have to say that Marsters stole the show with his version of Lex Luthor. He was very menacing, and evil, and very entertaining to listen to."

He really did.
James can steal the show even as the voice of an animated character. Why am I not surprised? :) And the Luthor character looks really cool, even though I'm not into animation.
Anne Heche did a surprisingly good job as Lois. Sounded a bit like Dana Delaney's sometimes from Superman: The Animated Series and Justice League (especially when she got catty/sarcastic toward someone), but we got to see some sides of Lois that haven't been done before on screen (at least not that I've seen--I didn't watch the entirety of Lois & Clark back in the day and barely remember it).

I don't think it's fair to say that Marsters stole the show. I liked a whole lotta things about the Superman: Doomsday film (by no means stellar, but greatly enjoyable and a fun take on the franchise all the same), and James' portrayal of Lex was one of the highlights.

Tangent: I finished the Justice League Unlimited Season 1 DVD set, the one that concludes with the unexpectedly awesome and poignant "Epilogue" (really more of a Batman Beyond episode, though it ties a couple JL elements into it all too and ends the franchise the way it began, with Batman first and last and "What was that?!" as opening and closing line). Sort of the end of the series, since Bruce Timm and his team didn't know yet that they'd be picked up for one last season (which I'll save for later--I hear a lot of it's unnecessary and not as great).

I'm in awe of what they grew out of that first series, Batman: The Animated Series.

You could tell Bruce Timm had become a Firefly fan some time recent before they'd cast and recorded the voice actors for that last half of JL--Amy Acker as The Huntress, Morena Baccarin as Black Canary, Nathan Fillion as Vigilante, possibly some other Whedonverse actors I'm forgetting. Those were nice touches.

Agh! So good man. I think...possibly...something may've finally unseated Gargoyles as my favorite North American animated series/franchise. Maybe. Oh wait, I forgot about Aeon Flux. Hmm...ah, rankings are pointless, they're all very different shows.
Yeah, you get the feeling they'd pretty much done what they could with JLU S2 Kris, though there's some good stuff in S3 (e.g. "Patriot Act" has a nice - almost subversive - theme and "Flash and Substance" is cool) there's nothing to match the brilliance of "Question Authority" or "Divided We Fall" or "Epilogue" with its character stuff and truths about (, sorta ;) fathers and sons (in years to come i'd love to see a similar "rounding-off" of Buffy, maybe getting the "band" back together for one last hurrah. Basically "Dark Buffy Returns" but less open-ended ;).

BTW, Adam Baldwin and Gina Torres also did voice work for Timm, possibly others (as well as other genre faves like Jeffrey Combs, who in a 6 degrees stylee, is actually from Oxnard "Xander's Ladies' Night Experience" California ;).

(JLU's probably one of my favourite animated series, especially if I can cheat and include the entire Timmverse DCAU that leads up to it, though i'm also partial to a bit of "Samurai Jack". "Gargoyles" i've not seen)

I thought 'Doomsday' was at least OK. Marsters did steal the show a bit for me though at least partly because his Lex was probably the most interesting character in the film - lots of fairly mature psycho-sexual stuff going on between him and Supes and quite a dark take in general. I liked the way JM played it down a bit, didn't chew the scenery (as even the excellent Clancy Brown did from time to time).

(and the little Kevin Smith in-joke was pretty funny ;)

I can understand them cutting the whole "4 Supermen" bit but it felt like they missed some chances at suspense/a big entrance by showing us Supes on the mend way before he actually had to step up.

Not bad all in all though, worth seeing.
"BTW, Adam Baldwin and Gina Torres also did voice work for Timm, possibly others (as well as other genre faves like Jeffrey Combs...)"

I completely forgot that Gina Torres did Vixen (I read the credits every episode--I love that they got Jerry O'Connell to play that "Shazam" dude...a bunch of other celebrity casting choices were also cool). Adam I didn't forget about, I just couldn't remember the name of the army dude he played (leader of that band of criminals Cadmus recruited) and think of him more in terms of the Doomsday Superman now, since I watched that before I watched JLU.

I wish they'd found a way to include it as a piece of DCAU continuity. It works fine as a standalone film, but it wouldn't have taken much to incorporate it as a very cool part of Superman's story. They could've found a way to bring Doomsday back from The Phantom Zone...then again, the wordless, scarier-looking, and impressively unrelenting version of that villain from the movie was much cooler than what they did with him in JLU.

Jeffrey Combs was fantastic as The Question. One of the few new additions I warmed up to right away. I'm trying to remember what else I've seen/heard him in, aside from playing General Shran on Enterprise.

"i'm also partial to a bit of "Samurai Jack"."

I watched and loved the first two seasons of Jack. From the exceptional pilot, to the art, the humor--just all of it rocks and I'll be getting the complete series boxed set when they bring it out soon and watching those last two or three seasons (plus the movie since that's finally back on track). For me though it was more of a...I dunno...a sort of casually watched show, I guess. I rented the discs and would just watch it when I was in the mood for that sorta thing. I never marathoned it. I see it the same way I see something like Invader Zim, which I'm also slowly making my way through.

"Gargoyles i've not seen"

It's only out on Region 1 DVD, do you have a region-free player ? Two multi-disc sets are currently available, Season 1 and Season 2 Part 1, with one more set to go. It's essential animation viewing, IMO.

"...lots of fairly mature psycho-sexual stuff going on between him and Supes..."

Yeah, the "Who's your daddy!" line was...a weird one to put in there. In context, once you know that it's a clone that Lex created, it makes sense, but...it was an awkward line, I thought. I'm not sure any sort of sexual overtone (on Lex's part, obviously never on Clark's) was intended, but it was so so easy to misinterpret and I really started to while watching it. If it was intended though, then...interesting take on the "relationship" between the hero and villain, I guess.
Pretty obvious take if you've been watching any of the earlier seasons of Smallville. I was gasping like a codfish through large chunks of the first few shows. Lex being in love with Superman in their youth explains a lot.
Heh, yeah but that'd only work if Lex also recognized that Clark and Superman are the same person...then again, it works if you assume he does know on some subconscious level.

And yeah, I saw the first four seasons of Smallville and the HoYay/slash was fun and way more potentially interesting than the Lana bore. Shame the showrunners didn't just go for it, much as it would've pissed off the majority of Superman fans and The WB and probably caused the show to get cancelled after two seasons.

I rarely had Smallville in mind while watching Superman: TAS though.
Yeah, the two leads on 'Smallville' seemed to have great fun, particularly up to and including S5, playing a not so subtle attraction between Clark and Lex (they even have a 'ship, 'Clex' ;). In a couple of episodes they almost seem to have lover's tiffs.

I'm trying to remember what else I've seen/heard him in, aside from playing General Shran on Enterprise.

He played Weyoun on DS9 for a couple of seasons if you watched that (I first saw him in "Re-animator" and since then he's become similar to Bruce Campbell for me in that he can turn rubbish into good - if disposable - fun just by his performance).

It's only out on Region 1 DVD, do you have a region-free player ? Two multi-disc sets are currently available,

Hmm, may check it out, especially the way the dollar is right now (the wikipedia entry sounds pretty good, with the intertwining of British myths and legends etc.).

From the exceptional pilot, to the art, the humor--just all of it rocks and I'll be getting the complete series boxed set when they bring it out soon and watching those last two or three seasons (plus the movie since that's finally back on track).

Loved the pilot but episode 3 (variously "The War" or "The First Fight") was where I was really hooked. Sort of an "A-Team" pastiche with some funny moments, nice action and memorable imagery. At first the style put me off but it quickly came to seem iconic, almost like Japanese woodcuttings (and the nods to genuine Samurai literature - 'Hagakure' etc. - worked well). Been waiting for the complete set myself (and I thought the movie was stalled, great news that it's back on the cards).
A few more Whedon actors in the DCAU: Alexis Denisof, Daniel Dae Kim, Armin Shimerman, Seth Green and (most importantly) Juliet Landau.
James was definitely the highlight for me. The others did a good job, I prefered AB's clone to the real Superman though, more meaty.

But, yeah, James stole the show. Anyone familiar with his work of the Dresden Files audio books wont be suprised.
I personally enjoyed the work from both Marsters and Heche.
I love Adam, but his Superman, did bother me a bit in some parts. I know Clark was barely in it, but I think that his portrayal from one to another could've been more nuanced. But, I'm just nitpicking.

On the movie itself, I really enjoyed how they adapted like about 8 months worth of multiple comic book material, and made a very tight 80-minute movie. It could've been longer, just for the sakes of giving it an epilogue or maybe playing more with the world without Superman aspect of this saga, but I really enjoyed it.

I'm really anxious to see what will be done for next two upcoming movies.
What's the third direct-to-DVD DC movie gonna be about ? #2 is a WW2 version of Justice League based faithfully on a graphic novel by a writer/artist named Darwin (I saw the promo reel, but can't remember many more details)...who gets the third film ?

Oh wait, it's Teen Titans, isn't it ? But not like the kiddie anime-style Titans of the current TV series, right ?

cowmuf said:
"A few more Whedon actors in the DCAU: Alexis Denisof, Daniel Dae Kim, Armin Shimerman, Seth Green and (most importantly) Juliet Landau."

Okay I remember some of 'em, but help me with the others.

Denisof played the doomed dinosaur-mutate-to-be Zander, genetically engineered and specifically raised to lead the terrorist organization of Batman Beyond, Kobra (I liked that 2-parter a lot, along with the other BB 2-parter, the Justice League-debuting "The Call").

Seth Green was recurring Batman Beyond school bully Nelson Nash (fulfilling the Whitney role, if you'd like to make comparisons to Smallville, which I found kind of unavoidable during some of BB's more annoying highschool themed episodes--although I liked Smallville's original asshole jock better, since Eric Johnson is a pretty good actor and nice eye-candy...Um, Seth is too, but his animated character didn't have as much to offer as far as a nuanced arc goes).

Juliet Landau was only in two episodes and played Tala, the only supernatural-power-wielding member of Cadmus and also ultimately the most useless. Seeing as she was trapped in a mirror by Felix Faust when he escaped said mirror, possessed the Annihialator weapon, overthrew Hades and took over the underworld briefly.

Who did Daniel Dae Kim and Armin Shimmerman play ?
Could we ty to keep this thread on topic please. Thank you kindly. :0)
Wow, never noticed that was Seth Green and I usually make a point of listening out for Whedonverse cast members after so many showed up on JLU (picked out Alexis Denisof on BB pretty quickly but maybe the most recognisable was Nathan as Vigilante on JLU - sounded kind of like Mal, only moreso ;).

Daniel Dae Kim played Metron BTW (in the later "Fourth World" stuff, S3 so you may not have seen it yet Kris), not sure about Shimmerman. And don't forget David Boreanaz is in the upcoming 'Justice League: The New Frontier' film (as Hal Jordan).

Never really been a fan of Teen Titans so that doesn't hold as much appeal for me but i'll probably still have a look (it's based on "The Judas Contract" storyline, is aimed older than the TV show and is apparently being written by Marv Wolfman and Tom Desanto, don't think casting information's been released yet).

(one of the interesting things about these three films is that,AFAIK, none of the cast is consistent across them - Superman is played by Kyle MacLachlan in the JL one for instance and presumably if Lex Luthor appears he'll be played by someone else too. I don't think they fit into each other's universes at all, let alone the main DCAU that Team Timm created)
On topic, JuliaL? I don't know, you crazy Spike fans, you expect everything to be about him. It's not like this thread was started about his perf... oh.
Yeah, I don't see the problem. We're not really going off-topic, 'cause hey, we managed to cover "James was awesome as Lex" in a few posts. So it only makes sense to sort of wander off into related projects rather than let the thread die. Many Whedonverse actors have been involved with Bruce Timm's other animated projects based on DC comics, plus Timm's a fan of Whedon. It's all very interconnected.
I only mention it as I know we aren't meant to go so off topic in these threads. Many a time I've seen it on other threads and the mods have asked people to stop. I know a few people who don't want to wade through stuff that has nothing to do with the topic and have felt their on topic comments will just be lost in the reams of off topic stuff.

Didn't mean any offence, I just thought this was how the board was meant to be run.
*headdesk* Kris, I was being sarcastic. Though I applaud your concern about dying threads.
Oh, we wander all over the place JuliaL, easiest thing is just to let the mods do the modding, s'what we pay them for after all ... err, everyone else pays them too, right ? ;)

It's a bit of a free for all re: comments, some get a response, some sink without a trace, if it's worthwhile and on topic I reckon someone'll notice, if not, not, so it goes (I guess wading through comments you don't consider on-topic may be the price we all pay for other people having to do the same for us ;).

Ultimately though, as I say, what's on-topic and what's off is up to the Orange One's That Must Be Obeyed (and occasionally tickled - they like it, honest ;) not we lowly browns.

(and thus ends, ironically, easily my most off-topic post in this thread. Ho hum)
I like turtles.

;-)
Frankly I'm just thrilled my very first link submission got any comments at all :) I was nervous.
TheSpark, you did good.

Being a Marsters' fan, I admit he was the sole reason I watched it in the first place. But I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed the movie. Although I agree that JM stole the show, AB and AH both gave good performances that kept my attention. I'm not really into all the violence so although those scenes were intense & exciting, they were just too long for me. I was starting to grit my teeth by the time they would finally get to the end of bashing up every. single. thing. in existence for the upteenth time.

I must confess though, the blatant HoYay made this slasher smile big time.

[ edited by anindoorkitty on 2007-10-08 20:27 ]
anindoorkitty said

"I'm not really into all the violence so although those scenes were intense & exciting, they were just too long for me. I was starting to grit my teeth by the time they would finally get to the end of bashing up every. single. thing. in existence for the upteenth time."

Heh, if length of fight scenes bothers you sometimes, you'd go nuts during some of the DC Animated superhero shows, nevermind that movie (especially Superman: TAS and Justice League...I can't recall if the majority of Batman Beyond was as fight-scene-heavy as those two, or if it was a little more full of non-action scenes like the majority of Batman: TAS). I say this with some confidence because I got impatient sometimes with overly long fight scenes, especially when they happened during some of the better stories in Justice League. Sometimes they were more than earned, like with Part 2 of "Twilight" where the entire episode was basically one big Superman vs. Darkseid & Brainiac bout...other times I was wishing a fight would end so they could get back to the characters interacting and the revelations happening.

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