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"So tell me.. which stage of grieving is this?"
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October 29 2007

"Wonder Woman" dead for now. In news that surprises nobody, the Wonder Woman project that Joss Whedon left is dead... while the "Justice League of America" film - with Wonder Woman in the cast - continues to build toward production.

As the article says, the WW project has been moribund since Joss' departure - proving the studio really didn't know what to do with the character.

Springboarding the character from the JLA movie might be a better bet - at least that'll save them the casting headache!

As the article says, the WW project has been moribund since Joss' departure - proving the studio really didn't know what to do with the character.

And that their purchasing a competing script from hacks as a way of letting Joss know he was done was just as well thought out as it was tactful.
I just read that a new director for The Flash has been announced and that it will be a spin-off from the Justice League film.

Also Variety and Hollywooed Reporter broke tonight that a Green Lantern film has just signed its writers and director.The Green Lantern in Justice League will be John Stewart while the solo Green Lantern film will use Hal Jordan.

A lot of movie insiders have been saying the cast will be announced this week,possibly Tuesday.Smallville fans are still holding their breaths in the hopes Tom Welling gets the Superman role.

From what I've read,this Justice League movie is causing bad feelings from the Nolan/Bale camp.It also looks like it's killed the Superman Returns sequel as a continuation of the Singer film.Bryan Singer's writers left the project last week.

I really would of loved to have seen Joss's Wonder Woman film and David Goyer's Flash movie.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2007-10-29 08:10 ]
A movie with a whole bunch of superheroes? If it's great it could lead the way for a whole bunch of franchises, if it bombs...
Yes, Buffyfantic, the Nolan/Bale Batfolks are not happy. And neither am I. If you want to fuck around with what I'm sure will be a disappointing venture, wait until at least you won't fuck up something good.
You know, that's been the overall DC film legacy, though. Despite the fact that I consider the DC comics universe superior to Marvel's, it seems that Marvel at least attempts to treat their characters as well as possible during the comics-to-film transition. DC, on the other hand, gives the appearance of actually trying to destroy their own franchises.

[ edited by Rowan Hawthorn on 2007-10-29 14:14 ]
UnpluggedCrazy said:

Yes, Buffyfantic, the Nolan/Bale Batfolks are not happy. And neither am I. If you want to fuck around with what I'm sure will be a disappointing venture, wait until at least you won't fuck up something good.


How does making a Justice League movie "fuck up" The Dark Knight?
betwixt, it probably won't, at least for Dark Knight. But Nolan, et al., have been pretty open about having a trilogy to tell if given the chance, and a bad performance for Justice League -- or a good one, even, for that matter -- could lead to execs getting twitchy or more "hands-on" about a third Nolan Batman.

That's obviously all conjecture, though, so for now I'll just cross my fingers and be hopeful. ;-)
This won't lead anywhere good. Attempts to do something with the Justice League in anything other than cartoon form haven't went well in the past.

On the other hand, who are they casting for The Flash? Back when David Goyer was doing it, I heard Ryan Reynolds was in the running.

[ edited by deepgirl187 on 2007-10-29 18:11 ]
Ugh, since when has adding more characters ever made a superhero movie better? They just never learn. The JLA movie just reeks of a studio desperately throwing everything it can at the wall to see what sticks. "Quick, before the writers go on strike!"
The JLA movie just reeks of a studio desperately throwing everything it can at the wall to see what sticks. "Quick, before the writers go on strike!"

Thanks flackbait, now I'm going to have nightmares of a JLA movie filmed from a script that was cobbled together in three days.
Ugh, since when has adding more characters ever made a superhero movie better?


X-Men and X-Men 2. Which I imagine is the road DC want to be going down.
This sounds more like Fantastic 4 than X-men, but I guess we shall see (and it isn't like Fantastic 4 didn't make some money along with their bad reviews).
X-Men and X-Men 2. Which I imagine is the road DC want to be going down.


But unlike X-Men, Justice League is made up of characters that all have long-standing, individual sagas. When you have that many intense personalities running around, it's hard to make a coherent story (film-wise, at least). And as Rowan Hawthorn stated, DC doesn't have a good history when it comes to giving their characters their due. Unless they have gods for screenwriters and directors (which isn't likely), I don't see this turning out well.

And for the record, I actually liked Fantastic Four (of course, that had as much to do with Julian McMahon and Chris Evans as the film itself). ;)
...and it isn't like Fantastic 4 didn't make some money along with their bad reviews...


They did, indeed. A worldwide gross of over $330 million for the first film and nearly $290 million for the sequel, against a combined production budget of $230 million. With DVD and television revenue on top of that I would imagine a tidy profit was made.
How does making a Justice League movie "fuck up" The Dark Knight?
betwixt | October 29, 14:40 CET


Because Nolan/Bale and the Batman Begins/Dark Knight camp feel Justice League is stepping on their toes.If Justice League flops,it could hurt the chance for a third Batman movie that Bale and Nolan have plans for.They planned to make a trilogy.If Justice League is a big success then the WB might decide to ignore doing more solo Batman films which also hurts the Nolan series.


Plus,and this is light story spoilers,but based on recent reports,this Justice League film is going to tie into the Batman Begins verse and be a sort of sequel to Batman Begins which again has Bale and Nolan ticked because it could hurt plans for their own sequels.I think this specifically is what is probably pissing them off the most.

Also having two different actors as Batman on movie screens at the same time isn't the best idea either.

Nolan and Bale wanted Warner Bros. to wait until they finished their Batman trilogy before doing a Justice League film.If they waited,Bale might of even considered doing Justice League at that point.
Call me crazy, but I'd much rather see a superheroine film centered around a certain southern-california gal and her pals.

Instead, Hollywood thinks I want more bulges and balloons in tight spandex, sputtering cardboard lines. Puuulleeeease. How juvenile! With Buffy, I can always get into the story because I believe in the characters. They always come across as real people, despite the fantastic things which happen around them. That's because Joss is such a wonderful storyteller, who remembers his characters need more than just two dimensions.

Compared to Buffy, JLA seems so flat. JLA has never made me cry, or dance the Scooby dance of happiness. Hell, when Tara died, I was depressed for weeks, and she's a FICTIONAL character! I've watched the JLA cartoon, but it never motivated me to the point of "must see TV."

Wanna dream a cool dream? Imagine one episode of Season 8 comics transforming into a theatrical release, with comics around it leading up to the event and afterwards. Perfect synergy. Unfortunately, reality dictates Hollywood will continue to hire hacks, and make hack-films, when it should hire genius.

Oh well. Just remember, Joss, WE still love you!
Thanks flackbait, now I'm going to have nightmares of a JLA movie filmed from a script that was cobbled together in three days.


Wonder if the studios tried to get Mr. Whedon? "We hear you wrote Train Job over a weekend, should be easy to write a summer blockbuster in the same amount of time."

Ugh, since when has adding more characters ever made a superhero movie better?
X-Men and X-Men 2.


It may have worked for X-Men 2, but it was one reason why X-Men 3 was underwhelming.

Because Nolan/Bale and the Batman Begins/Dark Knight camp feel Justice League is stepping on their toes.


My cynical mind says Nolan/Bale are going to get the studio shaft, no matter what, by film 3. (Again, think X-Men 3.) The studios are going to have a dozen producers "improving" the script (no matter that it trashes the main storyline), so that they can each get a piece of the pie.
, but it was one reason why X-Men 3 was underwhelming.


Which is exactly why I didn't mention it ;).
quantumac said:

JLA has never made me cry, or dance the Scooby dance of happiness...I've watched the JLA cartoon, but it never motivated me to the point of "must see TV."

I'm not sure how much you watched of the animated Justice League (and Justice League Unlimited, as it came to be known as in its last three seasons), but there were one or two episodes that got some tears outta me and all in all there were some fantastic multi-parters and overall arcs among a lot of other stuff that was kinda mediocre. The voice acting was also fantastic. It built a lot on the Batman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond (and those two series' respective direct-to-DVD films), and Superman: The Animated Series shows that came before it, so that helps a lot for the little character moments, character development for the long-standing types, and the overall impact of the series. They had one huge DC Universe animated franchise going on and, as far as cartoons go, it was gold. I'd probably even rank it above some dramas I've loved (to be honest, those shows and even Justice League standing on its own easily beat this current season of Heroes, which is shaping up better but still feels "off" somehow and doesn't excite me the way Season 1 did). It's not Dexter-deep or anything, but it was enjoyable.

I'm in agreement with everyone who says they should hold off on a Justice League film (drop the "A" for America from the title, the cartoon got by just fine without it. At least two major members of the League aren't even American anyway). If they could get the actors from the individual franchise on board later on (Routh as Superman, if only so we could have more Kevin Spacey Lex...or fine, I'd be open to Tom Welling if they decide to make Smallville part of the Nolan/Batman-verse), that'd be sweet and help improve the image potential, help it give off a more better quality vibe.

I would kill for Ryan Reynolds as Flash, but it would be equally awesome if they'd just let Michael Rosenbaum grow his hair out and do it himself. He voiced him expertly in the cartoon, it was a fun character, and he's tall and lithe and could pack on a little more muscle to fill tights.
All the DC animated stuff is fantastic (and I'd say Batman: Mask of the Phantasm is probably the best Batman movie made, neck and neck with Begins).

X2 was good, but really only added one or two new characters, and dumped several, so it balanced pretty well. And even then, you could argue that by spending all that time on Nightcrawler they unfairly short-changed several of the characters from the first film, like Cyclops and Rogue.

I have a hard time believing they could pull it off with Justice League. Marvel is smartly waiting on an Avengers movie, DC really needs to do the same.
Marvel was mostly waiting for an Avengers movie since the movie rights for all the characters were distributed across different companies until the options expired. I forget now if the plan was to have solo films with an Avengers culmination, or if it was going to be like the JSA and maybe produce what could be labeled as "spin-offs"

That whole DC/Warner Bros/everything else muddle sort of hurts my head, but I did like the new Batman movie more than I would have expected and hope that they get a shot at wrapping things up. There's always the shot they go the way of Spidey 3 since X3 was a hot mess mostly since they lost their director to Superman, while Sony gave Raimi free reign.

I do have my doubts to go with my cautious optimism though, since I know sometimes studios make some weird decisions. (Smallville is totally separate from the movies even when it isn't but they don't want to let it feature Batman or Wonder Woman in case the movies go ahead and they don't want to confuse it, but then there are the cartoons...)
All the DC animated stuff is fantastic (and I'd say Batman: Mask of the Phantasm is probably the best Batman movie made, neck and neck with Begins).


The Batman cartoons were a favorite growing up. I didn't get a chance to watch Beyond that much, but the previous two I watched almost religiously. The cartoons based on comics (Superman, Spiderman, X-Men, and Batman; might as well throw in The Tick too) were really well done.
Before "Begins" "Mask of the Phantasm" was easily the best Batman movie IMO, it completely captured the loneliness of the character and his "chosen" path (as well as having a very spiffy "Akira" homage ;).

Instead, Hollywood thinks I want more bulges and balloons in tight spandex, sputtering cardboard lines. Puuulleeeease. How juvenile!

I'm not gonna argue the toss about whether super-heroes are "juvenile" - some stories are, some aren't, simple as that and to me the idea of super-heroes is as juvenile as their predecessors (and often templates) Hercules, Hades, Hermes, Gilgamesh etc. Real emotional resonance is very attainable by decent creators and i've definitely been affected by some of the JLU cartoons and comics like "Dark Knight Returns", "Secret Identity" and "It's a Bird...". I certainly don't contest though that some of the films of superhero stories have been juvenile (just like the film of a certain vampire slayer's - allegedly much more believable - story was). And according to Joss of course, Buffy herself was inspired by a spandex clad super-hero (Kitty Pryde of the X-Men).

Don't think much of this JL idea, it stinks of "franchise launch" rather than a genuine attempt to make a really decent film and it interferes with the very successful Batman reboot as well as the moderately so "Superman" re-launch. This is one of those times i'd be happy for a film to wallow in development hell for a good few years.

Spiderman 3, X-Men 3, Batman Returns, Batman Forever ... the list goes on and on of super-hero films that have suffered greatly by character bloat. Telling one story well rather than three badly seems so obvious but apparently not to many writers/directors/studios. In JLU they balanced so many characters brilliantly but they had the advantage of many hours and 5 seasons of episodes to give even fairly minor Justice League members their moment in the sun.

... if they decide to make Smallville part of the Nolan/Batman-verse ...

Don't even jest Kris, like "crossing the streams" that would be ... bad ;).

(I still watch "Smallville" as a bit of fluffy fun and would even go as far as saying Tom Welling's acting has come on in leaps and bounds - ahem ;) - but the guy couldn't carry a big movie, he just doesn't have the chops, and in a JL film, Big Blue would be centre stage for a lot of it, along with Wonder Woman and Batman)
So, just to keep this straight, Morgan Freeman is not up to the role of Wonder Woman, anymore?

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