I've been trying to think of questions, but since Wesley is in the mix I find that I'm just happy to be along for the ride!

embers | November 26, 18:48 CET

Gunn is a vamp? I completely missed that. I really have to reread this thing.

batmarlowe | November 26, 18:50 CET

Amazed at how many people didn't realise the last page splash of a vampire feeding was of Gunn. Maybe it helps if you're kinda-sorta expecting it given previous spoilers about the direction season 6 would have gone in if Ats hadn't been cancelled ? To me it looked like him.

(surely you guys must've felt like the issue just kind of fizzled out, without that big kinda-sorta reveal ?)

I'm not on MySpace but if I could ask one question it'd be what made you decide to start with issue number one ? Or maybe, having vampires in the story, was that Joss' idea or Brian's ? Or, what happens at the very end ? And also, what happens between now and the very end ? And without spoiling anything, does Angel die ?

Saje | November 26, 19:14 CET

The more I hear, well, I'll sample an issue or two but I'm more sure than ever I'm not on for this ride...

DaddyCatALSO | November 26, 19:31 CET

DaddyCatALSO, I have to recommend you check out the first issue. It really IS good! :)

Daburcor | November 26, 19:58 CET

I didn't find the issue bad at all (although I'm not crazy about the artwork). But I did find it frustrating. And I think it's because of all the anticipation of finding out what happened in alley and not really getting any answers. And that has to do with the story structure. Looks like we're going to come back around to exactly what happened after "Let's go to work." And that's fine, it's just that, like I said, there were all these months of anticipation. And having to wait another month to see the next part of the story isn't helping. With this series more than Buffy the story may be more satisfying if read after all the issues are out.

batmarlowe | November 26, 21:16 CET

First question: Why is Wesley an apparently incorporeal W&H rep when Lilah was clearly solid, complete with stitched-on head?

Haunt | November 26, 21:47 CET

Haunt; maybe because Wes wasn't contractually bound to serve them while he was alive?????


Daburcor: The guy at the comics shop I usually hit thinks it's not out yet.

DaddyCatALSO | November 26, 22:01 CET

You don't think the boys (and girl) had to sign any kind of contract before working at W&H? That's pretty optimistic of you...

And besides, even if that were the case (which I REALLY don't believe), why would that make a difference. If Lilah was brought back physically then why would they bring Wes back as a ghost? I don't remember him wearing any gaudy costume jewelry amulet or anything when he died.

Haunt | November 26, 22:07 CET

I have to say I'm finding it a very satisfying continuation of the S5 storyline so far, and I'm one who thinks NFA was essentially a perfect ending to the show.

The tone is exactly right - pitch black in places, shot through with unexpected glints of humor - and although I wasn't 100% digging the layout/artwork on first read-through (with a few of the same issues others have mentioned re: who's saying what when POV shifts, who's who because facial resemblance or body language don't give accurate/enough clues, exactly what's happening in certain panels), the second time I caught everything (I think) I missed initially, and the whole thing gelled. I'm a pretty patient comic reader, though, so I can see how the little things here and there could throw others out of the story to a distracting degree. It's nothing that can't be tweaked, and this is only the first issue. Given the burden of expectation that was placed on the project well before the thing was ever drafted out, it's a remarkable achievement in the Angel story canon.

My personal tastes in comic art tend to run along the lines of Kaluta/ Vess/Cassady. I realized I had to stop comparing it with what I'm naturally drawn to and appreciate this vision of Angel's story for what it is and can be. Taken on its own, A:ATF has a visceral darkness and power that's evocative of ATS's pathos-laden uber-drama. Even with quibbles, I still agree with the A-sayers out there, grade-wise, because it's won me over in spite of, not because of, the visuals. (I recall reading that the colors will be changing somewhat next issue, and I'm looking forward to that.)

Probably most importantly, as far as the way the plot's going I couldn't be happier. I'm hearing the character's voices as I read, and when I close my eyes I'm seeing the live sequence of the scenes as if it was filmed in my mind's eye. To me, that's about as good as it gets - at least until this series sells so well, some studio comes a-beggin' for a big screen version... ;)

[Also not on Myspace, and I forgot to wonder aloud how Wesley's current state as W&H liaison will be likely to affect the relationship between him and Illyria, and how that dynamic is going to affect Angel in turn (and probably Spike, when he shows up)? Incorporeal Wes is in a similar fix to Spike at the start of S5, and Spike was just beginning to get back some corporeality through sheer force of will when the box 'o' flash restored him completely. Hope for Wes, then?]

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2007-11-27 07:48 ]

Wiseblood | November 26, 22:13 CET

The guy at the comics shop I usually hit thinks it's not out yet.

Ah, he's wrong DaddyCatAlso. It came out last Wednesday in the US (Thursday in the UK).

Saje | November 26, 22:21 CET

I had on my calendar to pick it up this Wednesday...called the shop today to check on when they open. Glad I asked if the Angel comic would be in then and was startled when informed that it'd been in since last Wednesday. Drove out and got the last copy.

Mixed feelings...not sure if I like the idea of Wesley coming back...I know his death wasn't mystical, even if at the hands of a wizard, so I bridle at bringing him back, incorporeally or otherwise. We'll just have to wait to see if it's plausible enough.

Gunn? I'm guessing that he survived a few minutes of battle, inflicted plenty of mayhem and was about to die when he asked Angel to feed on him and turn him, so he could continue in the battle that lay ahead.

Not even sure if that makes any sense...

Chris inVirginia | November 27, 00:15 CET

"I know his death wasn't mystical, even if at the hands of a wizard"

Neither was Holland's or Lilah's, so this is the one resurrection-method in the 'verse there's presedence for without the mystical-stamp. However, it's puzzling that he's incorporeal.

Loki | November 27, 00:34 CET

Chirs in VA: Gunn...I was imagining the same thing but how would just turning his corpse into another evil vmapire gain Angel an ally?
As for Wesley coming back, well they aren't *in* earth's dimesnion anymore and it's been stated that both an afterlife and restless spirits exist in the B'verse so that itself isn't a stretch. And let's face it, Wesley doesn't really really *have* any place to move on to.

DaddyCatALSO | November 27, 00:36 CET

That's what I meant about not making sense, DaddyCatAlso.

I am highly confused, to put it mildly.

Chris inVirginia | November 27, 00:52 CET

Hey Bat there will be a one shot later in the year that says exactly what happened in the alley. At least that's what I think I remember them saying.
I don't see Angel turning Gunn after what happened with that guy on the sub during WW2. So it will be fun seeing how that went about.
With how Gunn's story started (with his siter getting vamped and then him staking her) the only way his story could end was him getting vamped, but no more Vampires with a soul please, two is enough. I wonder who is going to end up staking him.

theMidnighter | November 27, 01:07 CET

Lilah wasn't the only W&H employee to come back. Holland Manners operated that "elevator to hell" for Angel. He was like "Nope, not a ghost. Just me. Dead me."

But in the context of this story, I think it works better to have Wesley incorporeal. It serves as one more thing to make him seem "off" and not the Wesley we knew. He's there, but he's not. He's Wesley, but he's not. If he were a walking corpse, it wouldn't have the same effect.

But if Brian is taking questions here, I'd ask if Gunn's gang are all vampires or if the bodies at the end were supposed to be the rest of his crew.

dingoes8 | November 27, 01:26 CET

Err, surely the bodies at the end were a mixture of Kr'ph's "gladiators" (the men) and "groupies" (the women) ? I.e. when Gunn said "downright erotic" he presumably meant solely for him and his boys.

The guys we saw tagging the stadium walls with sigils were Gunn's crew not the dead guys. That's how I took it anyway.

(maybe the "technology" that brought Wes back is the same sort of thing that brought Spike back ? After all, Lindsey had to get the know-how/idea from somewhere)

Saje | November 27, 01:38 CET

Saje I object to the term 'groupies' since they were in chains, they were definitely slave girls....

embers | November 27, 02:42 CET

Uh huh, that's why I put the inverted commas around the word. Just like the poor blokes (policemen, bouncers etc.) being forced to fight each other weren't really gladiators either.

Also, maybe they just like being chained up ;-).

ETA: Actually I take back that (facetious) comment. They don't seem to be chained up so maybe they didn't like it that much after all ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2007-11-27 00:03 ]

Saje | November 27, 02:47 CET

About the "no more vampires with souls" comment, I definitely agree. However I would like to see someone, preferably Spike, get it into their head that returning a vamp's soul is a good way to "save" them. Given that two of the most powerful champions are formerly evil vampires that have been "saved" by having their souls returned I'd think that the typically impulsive Spike would consider that option before killing a turned friend. But then of course I'd want to see the plan fail miserably and have to stake Gunn anyways because, as you say, two vamps with souls is more than enough.

Haunt | November 27, 03:19 CET

"Gunn is a vamp? I completely missed that. I really have to reread this thing."

You're not the only one. The art is so dark, I thought it was Angel gone murderous. It wasn't till I looked back through the pages and saw the clothing that I realised that was supposed to be Gunn gone Vamp and biting one of the humans he's just saved. That was my main problem with the book -- just now and then the structure of the drawings seemed to lessen the coherence of the writing.

feelinglistless | November 27, 03:28 CET

I dunno, around half a dozen or maybe a lucky seven vampires with souls, out of about 900,000 total vamps on earth, sounds a good number to me *grin.

DaddyCatALSO | November 27, 05:21 CET

*shrug* I knew the second I saw that it was Gunn, I don't see the confusion. It's clearly the old anti-vamp hunter becoming the thing he hates the most. Oooh, I wish he meets up with Anne as a vampire, that'd be so cool!

I am all thumbs when it comes to myspace, so please, when Brian posts the answer, someone link to us here. A lot of people asked the same questions I'd like to know the answers to.

Mirage | November 27, 11:30 CET

Gunn becoming a vampire has just broken my heart!

Sister Spooky | November 27, 22:36 CET

Mirage, you don't have to be a member to read the questions and answers on his Myspace page - just click on the link in the title and read away. You only have to sign up if you want to ask a question. I would say it's definitely worth bookmarking as another interesting site to read about stuff related to A:AtF.

ohbejoyful | November 28, 00:35 CET