(SPOILER)
For the discussion of Buffy #9.
The last part of Brian K. Vaughan's 'No Future For You" season 8 arc hits the comic book stores today. Pull up a chair and tell us what you thought of this Buffy story.
So as per usual, plot spoilers for this issue will be discussed in detail.
December 05 2007
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A few things that come to mind after a first reading:
1. So, Twilight's a being? Cool. Where is he lurking, anyway? What's with his costume? I guess it's now clear that it was *his* feet hovering above Buffy and gang in the first issue, when they were in that castle that was used by the Twilight sacrifices.
2. Twilight's "end of magic" plan links directly to the world of Fray, if I remember correctly. Doubly cool.
3. I love Faith and Giles as a duo. Wonderful. We haven't seen the last of Faith. I'm so relieved. I was getting worried there...
4. Do we know why Buffy and Giles are on the outs? Is it because of the recent discovery by Buffy of Giles's involvement with Faith, or is there something further back that we haven't yet learned? I'll have to reread earlier issues but I didn't pick up on any unpleasantness suggested between Buffy and Giles before. Granted, we haven't yet seen them together in the comics.
5. The cover of the book is beautiful. Any theories as to what it means? Faith being reborn in a trial by fire? Whipping off the dress she was told to wear by Giles (an echo of the dress she was told to wear by the Mayor) and becoming her own person, finally? I'm reaching, I know. But I'm curious.
6. The title of the arc: No Future For You. Does this refer to Twilight's plan as directed towards Buffy? Gigi and Roden? Clearly not Faith. Yay!
7. Giles has Roden's book now. I wonder whether it'll be useful in the coming fight or if the book just plays into Twilight's plans or hands.
8. WHO is the "man on the inside?!" Yikes. May not be a man at all, actually. Who could it be?
I just love this season 8. It's shaping up spectacularly.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2007-12-05 20:57 ]
phlebotinin | December 05, 14:42 CET
The Dark Shape | December 05, 14:54 CET
I'm enjoying it very much, too. A co-worker and I have made it an instant tradition to go to the local comic store, buy our books, and hunker down in silent, rapt reading while finishing off our plates of food at a nearby Indian restaurant. (The only drawback is the occasional smear of Palak Paneer on Georges's nice artwork.)
Twilight's hideout looks a bit like Devil's Tower in Wyoming, no? But that would conjure up images of Richard Dreyfuss scraping away at his mashed potatoes, and so, can't possibly be correct.
1starbuckstown | December 05, 14:58 CET
Great instant tradition, 1starbuckstown. Indian food and Buffy books. How could it get better than that?
A thought: what if Twilight is a former Watcher or some other former fighter against evil who has gone all obsessive-compulsive about getting rid of magic in general? Twilight's face being masked is interesting. It suggests - maybe - that we've seen him before. Maybe. Or maybe we'll be seeing more of him in his non-costume but we won't know it's him.
phlebotinin | December 05, 15:06 CET
EditorAl | December 05, 16:59 CET
Buffyfantic | December 05, 17:34 CET
I'm excited to continue with Buffy (and Joss) in issue #10. I am really loving Season 8!
embers | December 05, 17:52 CET
I think we can safely file this under "understandable delay". ;)
Casira | December 05, 19:36 CET
My shop said they'd have it tomorrow, but I think the wait may kill me.
MadeToLoveJoss | December 05, 19:38 CET
daylight | December 05, 20:00 CET
kishi | December 05, 20:19 CET
So...I am also thrilled to see what's in that Twilight book, and who would want to put an end to magic. How can that even be done? It's not the practitioners that hold the magic, it is the universe, right?
And, I was shocked and moved by the death of Gigi. I did not see that coming. I am also excited that Giles addressed his past murders! I always felt like that was glossed over.
Great arc!!!!
5X5B | December 05, 21:05 CET
I really liked where Faith ended up, but I'm not sure Giles still isn't manipulating her. And I'm bummed that Gigi's gone. I really liked her sour personality and bringing a spoiled brat down to earth is always fun to see (Cordelia, anyone?).
I guess we known now who the masked-man on the cover of #11 is. I can't *wait* for that one.
So good. Go buy it.
Arabchick | December 05, 22:06 CET
Did anyone else get a Sarah Connor Chronicles bag at the comic store? Buffy and Summer in one trip! Nice to see them promoting the show.
hacksaway | December 06, 00:25 CET
I'm glad we got a glimpse of the villain, but as they are masked, it does point towards the 'we know who it is' factor, which is mildly upsetting, because I kinda wanted a new and exciting character/villain person...
Is the whole Amy/Warren thing over? I kinda expected it to come up again in this issue, Warren isn't dead (again), and nor is Amy. Maybe it will be a one-off thing just to tie up that story somewhere along the line...
Very excited for next issue, oddly I am most excited about discovering more about the Buffy/Satsu relationship. I enjoyed The Chain so much I seriously can't wait for this coming stand-alone!
Going back to the Faith/Giles relationship, it really feels like something that should be explored, and unless the next arc is about them again (it seems unlikely, I think wikipedia had it listed as 'Untitled Tokyo arc' a few months back) it will either be arranged in stand-alone issues, or another arc further down the line...
The Villain said that Faith and Giles were no longer players, but since they are still fighting evil together, stuff must happen... I want more!
Also, loved the flashback!
insistondoubt | December 06, 11:24 CET
Wishes and horses and stuff...
RokkRage | December 06, 12:57 CET
Second thought: this was a really good issue.
Simon | December 06, 13:06 CET
Er... anyway, I'd like to see more Giles and Faith adventures. They don't even have to include Faith in a ballgown. Although, y'know, if it fits the story... ahem...
Craig Oxbrow | December 06, 15:27 CET
Loved it all! Sadish about Gigi, but I like the idea that she's Faith's "final kill". I see it as something (else) that can come back to haunt Faith.
And I likes me a good haunting.
The Buffy/Giles breakup seems fitting, considering how things were left at the end of Season 7. I wonder if they had another fight, or if it's been a slow deterioration of their relationship. Didn't Buffy say she missed Giles in #1?
All in all, a lovely arc. Thanks Brian!
MadeToLoveJoss | December 06, 16:12 CET
yellowcrayon | December 06, 18:00 CET
Suzie | December 06, 18:27 CET
She said she missed her mum (mom...), and she said she missed 'the gang' which could just be because during #1 she didn't know where Willow was. Of course this could be read that she missed the gang because Giles was no longer part of it, and it was no longer the same 'gang'. Who knows...
Also to yellowcrayon, as far as British people mistaking American accents, I had no idea that Faith had a 'Boston' accent as opposed to a New York accent, lol... It is very much a British thing I think... I can do Texan, then there is the rest of America...
insistondoubt | December 06, 18:43 CET
Heh. I remember a couple of British posters on the newsgroup insisting that they could "usually identify any American accent, while Americans are unable to distinguish Liverpool from South Wales," or words to that effect. Which just proved that they've never actually been to America; particularly this part, where the accent can change with every bend in the road...
Rowan Hawthorn | December 06, 21:14 CET
insistondoubt | December 06, 21:37 CET
Even though I wasn't entirely happy with the way Faith seemed to have regressed at the start of the arc, I loved the way she showed how far she had come, in the fight with Buffy in the previous episode, and particularly the insight she showed into her relationship with the Mayor and how she brought that to understanding Gigi. Her wanting to use her own history to help other slayers who might be on the edge also seemed like the right next step for her. You've traveled a long road Faith - good going.
I do like the way the comic book format allows for pursuing individual story-lines of different characters the way this did for Faith, (and I trust we'll see more of that) and in that respect I also love the idea of a Faith/Giles team-up. It had never occurred to me, but once the idea was raised it seems so natural. With his Ripper history, Giles and Faith can relate on a level that Buffy just has no access to. (After all the worst thing Buffy ever did in her darkest phase was a little rough sex with Spike - that and she did the sexy dance with Xander in "When She Was Bad." Woo-hoo). And, yeah it did occur to me too that if "Ripper" the series, the mini-series, the television movie, whatever, does make it to a screen of some sort, there could be a possible tie-in.
Actually, here's a thought. How about a series of stories showing Gile's adventures while he was in England during Season 6 and 7 - the stories that were supposed to be the original BBC "Ripper". It could be billed as Season 6.5. It seems like such an obvious idea that I have trouble believing no one has come up with it, but I don't remember seeing anyone talking about the possibility.
barboo | December 06, 23:31 CET
I really need to rewatch Season 7 again methinks.
TwisTz | December 07, 00:31 CET
So this would be episode 3 of the season if it was still on the TV. I can't think of another season that was close to this wow and deep by episode 3. And add another one who would love for the Ripper movie to be connected with this. Giles and Faith, great combo. I mean, we all know Faith always wished Giles was her Watcher. Loved her maturity that she won't be working for any man anymore. For such a strong independant woman she's let men tell her what to do for far too long. Of course when Gwendolyn Post told her what to do it didn't go to well either.
And oh yeah, I knew Faith wasn't gonna bite it. No effin way. Do you think Brian K. Vaughn wanted every Whedon fan to hate him his first tour of duty. No siree. Plus she's Faith, when she didn't die in Graduation Day or Chosen it was clear she wasn't gonna go for a long ass time.
OT I'm curious who everybody heres all time favorite slayer is?
I'm going to have to go with Meleka Fray, though I am quite intrigued by Satsu. And I would be a silly person to not give a shout out to Nikki Woods. Everyone else?
theMidnighter | December 07, 00:59 CET
Simon...right there with you on the improved paper quality. Shiny. (Er, glossy.)
I loved this issue. It really ties the entire arc together into a cohesive piece of awesome. Gigi's death was a shock. Not that I didn't expect her to bite it, but just the way that it was done. A very emotional and very rewarding read.
I'm really diggin' Twilight. I recently went through a fit of Ultimate Spider-Man mania after having been away from superhero comics for a while, and Twilight reminds me of your usual supervillain.
Also, about more Giles/Faith stories. It's a brilliant pairing (Georges' variant cover finally makes some sense), and didn't Scott Allie say that they were considering maybe doing some miniseries related to S8...?
UnpluggedCrazy | December 07, 01:09 CET
I'm happy to see everyone's onboard with the dynamic duo of Giles and Faith. I was afraid it might not click with some people. I think it could be great.
As for Twilight... I think his design might just be another example of bringing the world into the comic realm, rather than obscuring the identity of a character we already know. It's classic supervillain. But it's also a classic comic book move to have the villain's identity be someone we're not expecting, so it could go either way. ;) I'm still not totally sold on Ethan Rayne being out of the picture for good...
dingoes8 | December 07, 02:15 CET
5X5B | December 07, 02:50 CET
Haunt | December 07, 03:43 CET
Like Haunt, I'd love to see a return of Dana. That'd be fraktastic.
Edited to add: I don't get why Vaughan was so coy and uncertain-seeming in a recent interview posted here about Faith's reappearance in Season 8 post-issue 9. He hemmed and hawed and effectively said that hey, considering that the most surprising people can pop up again and again in the Whedonverse, it's possible Faith might, too. Huh? Was this a misdirect? (He did this interview before issue 9 was released.) 'Cause it doesn't jibe with the ending of Issue #9, at least not imo.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2007-12-07 17:17 ]
phlebotinin | December 07, 11:12 CET
I loved this issue on the whole, and I like the Faith/Giles pairing. It originally seemed that Buffy was ticked at Giles for simply working with Faith at all, but maybe it was just 'cos Faith had just tried to kill her and not on account of unresolved trust issues from the show. I'd thought they were pretty okay by the end, there.
swanjun | December 07, 11:28 CET
woofie | December 07, 15:36 CET
Jeanty nailed that scene. Some outstanding art work. I was highly impressed.
Simon | December 07, 17:34 CET
Caroline | December 08, 11:35 CET
Then the plot evolved to Pygmalion meets punk rock. Giles actually playing Watcher to Faith's Slayer. Long time coming. Very nice. I can so easily see Eliza Dushku playing this. My real quandry here which perhaps will never be answered: did Whedon think of putting Faith in a dress before or after he had that fated lunch with Dushku and Dollhouse was born? Cuz the idea of Faith being a double agent? Not too far removed from "Echo" if y'know whut I'm sayin'. Dushku could definitely pull all this off.
And this is my biggest beef with the Buffy comic book. All it does is make me want the tv series to have never been cancelled.
Admittedly, Whedon's got the ability now to tell BtVS in a way that allows for an infinite special effects budget. If he wants a cast of thousands, he just tells the artist. If he wants Willow and Amy to be floating above the moors of Europe for hours? No stunt work. No wire training. No green screen. No problem. Can we get one of the cast to be a hundred times bigger than everybody else? On TV that'd be difficult but in comic books? Whedon probably kept sending early drafts of the art back to the artists with notes saying "Make Dawnie taller!" Chuckling to himself as he went.
And if an actress woulda asked for more money before to come back for a special appearance? Not a problem this time around. Although I wonder if he needed to get permission to use their likenesses? How's that work?
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2007-12-10 02:52 ]
...the important thing is that the story is still being told. Better late than never. Better something than nothing. I am SO not wanting to look this gift horse in the mouth.
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2007-12-10 02:54 ]
ZachsMind | December 09, 20:49 CET
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2007-12-10 02:54 ]
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2007-12-10 02:54 ]
ZachsMind | December 09, 20:51 CET
I just didn't seem enough that a rift be explained by Buffy's look of shock in the panel where Giles' words register. The shock was well depicted, and then her rejection later on the page, too. But I expected some outrage mixed in there, too. She seemed to reach the shocked and dejected place too fast. I expected her to challenge him more. It felt like his words had more impact than they should have just then, as if some critical part of the exchange leading up to that moment was missing. I mean I get that Giles shutting her out is a really big deal to her. But I wasn't really able to follow it logically and emotionally as I was Faith and Giles' reactions to things.
Interesting that Twilight is a person. He looks kind of hokey, though. Like he should be fighting Batman. But I don't expect his Evil will be anything less for it.
Sunfire | December 09, 21:00 CET
woofie | December 10, 01:56 CET
I was a little thrown by the Buffy/Giles interaction too, although it cetainly got the job done in terms of making me really want to find out what's going on with Buffy from her point of view in issue 10. She seems to be living quite a double life, all miss psycho pep squad when she's talking to Willow in front of the girls but much more thoughtful with Xander in the training room. My best guess at the momment is that the switch from outrage to dejection upon Giles telling her he wants her to have no part in what he's doing is not so much that she felt rejected by Giles in favour of Faith but that she'd figured out what Faith was being sent in to do to Gigi. So it's a reminder both of how she and Giles differ in terms of believing potential risks ::cough::Spike::cough:: should be assasinated and of her current position as figurehead to the 500 working Slayers (and the limitations this places on her).
hayes62 | December 10, 03:58 CET
6. The title of the arc: No Future For You. Does this refer to Twilight's plan as directed towards Buffy? Gigi and Roden? Clearly not Faith. Yay!
It's a reference to a Sex Pistols song, "God Save the Queen":
God save the queen, she ain't no human being
There is no future in England's dreaming
Don't be told what you want, don't be told what you need
There's no future no future no future for you
I took it to refer to Gigi's plans, fueled by what Roden told her: she saw Buffy as a monarch who deserved to be overthrown. She saw herself as the rightful heir to some glorious future or other, although in the end she had no future herself.
Sunfire | December 10, 11:04 CET
YMMV but the La Femme Nikita reference made my day.
jpr | December 15, 07:21 CET
This really worked for me - never was I so excited to turn the page. I, too, would love to see more Faith & Giles Avengery goodness.
If twilight wants to bring the end of magic - what would that mean for the spell that made every potential a slayer? Wouldn't that decimate the slayer army to just Buffy and Faith?
Zannadoo | December 26, 20:13 CET
This is me speculating though. There's a thread over at whedonesque.org, too, if you want to get the discussion there going again. Looks like it got quiet there about the same time that the thread here did.
Sunfire | December 26, 20:28 CET
Sosa Lola | December 28, 10:36 CET