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December 19 2007

James Marsters in Torchwood Season Two trailer. BBC America gets the jump on the BBC itself with a release of this trailer for season two Torchwood. James Marsters featured prominently. John Barrowman's cheesy grin also stars.

Don't tell ESG, that you called John Barrowman "cheesy grin". LOL.
So, our friends from the UK, do we have a date for the debut date over there?
Fun! Thanks.

Sounds like a variant British accent of some sort. I look forward to an analysis from our British posters.

We don't have BBC America on our cable system so I am still hoping to get to see this by other means.
So, our friends from the UK, do we have a date for the debut date over there?


16th I think.
Where's that from Simon ? Even the official site still only says "mid-January" which surprises me, that being less than a month away.

It also says the BBC are doing a specially cut version for younger viewers which will be shown pre-watershed (the watershed being the UK TV cut-off point after which programmes are unapologetically aimed at adults - it's usually 9 pm). Which might not be great news for US viewers because it seems at least possible that if there's already a cut version floating around BBCA may use that.
(just from those wee snippets BTW, it sounds like Adam Ant JM is pretty much using his Spike accent again - Spike always used a shorter, more "northern" 'a' in "past" for instance - hard to tell though, he doesn't say much)
Saje - Lotsa planets have a north ;)

Excited to see Torchwood come back with James onboard, less excited that Chibnall is writing like four eps and RTD has apparently had to back out of his two. I know, I'll get over that soon. He did, after all, write for Life On Mars and several good eps of Torchwood (Day One was cliched but decent, I am one of the three people who liked Countrycide, and I thought End of Days was really good). I'll let my Cyberwoman grudge go, I swear!
I also kind of liked Countrycide.

I am actually really excited about this. The first season of Torchwood was all over the place but it was still really quite good.
Lotsa planets have a north ;)

Even AdamAntia ? ;)

Yeah, writers are funny buggers. The same person can write "Greeks Bearing Gifts" and "School Reunion" (Toby Whithouse) or "Cyberwoman" and a couple of very decent 'Life on Mars' episodes (Chibnall).

Strange alchemy this TV thing, wait and see I guess.
I loved Countrycide, thought it was the creepiest of them all.
I thought Countrycide was a great episode, and Cyberwoman wasn't really all that bad.

Brought back memories of original Star Trek episodes : -)
I, on the other hand, wear that grudge with pride.
So great to see James! So great to see James with his shirt unzipped (had to throw that in). I'm looking forward Torchwood. I like the naughty mixed with the sci fi. I'll admit it.
James and John Barrowman!!!!! Yummy!!!!!
So much 'pretty' on the same screen.
I am really getting excited about this show.
And just since no one mentioned it, I'll remind everyone that Barrowman and Marsters have some pretty hot kissing action together. :-)
Hi anybody heard if CBC (in the frozen north) is showing season 2 and when?
mmm Barrowman and Marsters...Can't wait! I look forward to the chemistry...hopehopehope!
I LOVED Countrycide...creepy is right. I won't touch Cyberwoman- grudge securely in place and NOT moving. I guess everyone has an off day *cheek*
Thanks for the link.
Yeah, i'd say I was still nursing my "Cyberwoman" grudge except it's actually perfectly healthy, in fact it's thinking about running a marathon in the near future and has one eye on the summit of Everest ;).
I agree with Saje, slightly more southern - although Spike's accent fluctuated so much.

As for Adam Ant - he appears to have the right sort of jacket, now he just needs to have the warpaint and perfect the line dance :)
I frickin *love* Gwen pushing Jack. ("you LEFT us, Jack!")

and don't worry. you'll eventually love Barrowman's cheesy grin, along with all right-thinking people. :)
"Countrycide" fans unite! :)

(that was also about the episode where I really began to reassess the show, which I hadn't been all that fond of to that point. I'm sold; RTD can do no wrong; and lots of planets DO have a north.)

oh, and if any of you are just kind of nascent RTD fans, I'd really recommend getting an older series of his, "Bob & Rose". one of the few shows I'd actually call "adorable", not least because Alan Davies is one of the stars. LOVE that boy. (and I got my copy for like $2.00 or so at AmazonUsed.)
Sadly, I haven't enjoyed any of the episodes Chibnall has written across three different shows. It's a shame, as he seems like a nice person who's really enthusiastic about what he does. I just don't like his style at all. I will be watching series 2 of Torchwood, though.
Have you seen 'Jonathan Creek' annagranfors ? Great, great show, one of my faves (especially the earlier ones). Never got it on DVD because i'm not 100% convinced about the re-watch value (almost every episode is a perfect 'locked room' mystery) but if you like Alan Davies it's probably worth a look.

(it's nothing to do with RTD though)

[ edited by Saje on 2007-12-19 17:39 ]
It's not a bad trailer and in some small way makes up for the shock of finding out that The 4400 has been cancelled.
Oh, score! I can't wait for this to start and to unravel whether JM's character is Friend or Foe... or somewhere else entirely, inhabiting that delicious place in-between he has expertly navigated before.
Without spoiling, does 'The 4400' end on a cliff-hanger Simon (cos I only added it to my Amazon queue a couple of weeks ago - i'll take it off if i'm just gonna be left hanging) ?
Simon, please tell me you're joking about that. I mean seriously, that isn't even funny. And why the hell would they cancel it? The show was doing well, last I heard.

And in a non-panicky mode, I was squealing with glee at the new TW trailer (while I watched the equally yummy Life on Mars last night; mmmm, John Simm...yummy). One more month to go... :)

ETA: USA has officially lost its mind. Not only are they going to cancel The 4400, they're axing The Dead Zone too. And I always regarded them as one of the saner networks, unlike some I could name (*cough, cough, Sci-Fi, cough*).

[ edited by deepgirl187 on 2007-12-19 17:47 ]

[ edited by deepgirl187 on 2007-12-19 17:54 ]

[ edited by deepgirl187 on 2007-12-19 17:54 ]
Where's that from Simon ? Even the official site still only says "mid-January" which surprises me, that being less than a month away.


Some actor's fansite said it was the 16th and a lot of people reckoned that could be right. It would make sense to be on at 9pm on a Wednesday night.

Without spoiling, does 'The 4400' end on a cliff-hanger Simon


Yes and no. It was one of the best cliff hangers ever but at the same time a fitting ending for the show.

oh, and if any of you are just kind of nascent RTD fans, I'd really recommend getting an older series of his, "Bob & Rose". one of the few shows I'd actually call "adorable", not least because Alan Davies is one of the stars. LOVE that boy. (and I got my copy for like $2.00 or so at AmazonUsed.)


The Second Coming is pretty good as well.
Wow, that was a great trailer. Wasn't expecting it to look that polished, and dear god doesn't JM look good!

I see the costume as more Firefly meets Adam Ant myself. *g*

Roll on January!!
saje, thanks for the tip. I think I haven't searched it out yet because of the ribbing he takes for the show on QI--Stephen: "Alan, you're an actor..." Phill or Bill:"erm, have you actually SEEN Jonathan Creek?" (audience laughter)

but such is my Davieslust that I'm sure I'll get it soon! :)

Simon, yah--I quite loved that, too...just didn't wanna overdose the "nascent" ones too quickly! :)
OOOOH!! I love John and James together! I think his accent sounded a bit more Irish or Welsh to me. I really like it though. His character seems a bit more swashbuckling than Spike, which I also like. I love Spike DEARLY, but sometimes he was bumbling. It's nice to see James be powerful.
I quite enjoyed Bob & Rose and Second Coming, own them both. Very sad about the 4400 as well :(
Don't tell ESG, that you called John Barrowman "cheesy grin". LOL.


I think it's cheesy, but I love it. I got a little burnt out on "Pop singer John Barrowman" over the hiatus though (whatever you do, don't click on this link, it's too painful). How can a man who would have chemistry with a brick wall have absolutely no stage presence when performing pop songs? He should really stick to acting and musical theater.

Haven't watched the Torchwood trailer yet. I'm too distracted with my scary cat emergency right now.
Screeching back on topic. James, James and yet more James. What a wonderful trailer too. The series is looking very good indeed.

Speaking as a Brit, his accent is a generic lower class accent. In other words English, just not posh. Spike was so very not northern by the way. William was posh.

James and John on screen together. Both sets of baby blues, wicked grins and sexy snogging. Bring it on.
Haven't been this excited about a tv show in a long time. This trailer is fabulous! Love seeing JM's character swagger out of thin air (the rift?)and the John Woo type gun scene...too great. Fills my heart with joy.
*glomps vid* Eeee. I need more James loveliness, the clip was over too soon for me, I had to rewind. You know to see JM's powerful moves, not to get a closer look at the bare chest. *cough* I did not feel a tiny bit jealous of JohnB. I did NOT.

A little down from my sudden attack of fangirlyness, I feel a newness of sort's to TW which I love. Can't wait till air date!
Spike was so very not northern by the way. William was posh.

His accent had northern elements. Speaking as a Scot that lived in Hampshire for 10 years, I have never heard a southern accent pronounce "past" with anything other than a long vowel (i.e. more like "parst", add 'r's as you go west ;) - one sure way to tell how far south an Englishman's accent is from is to get him to say "grass", "bath", "glass" etc. Both Spike and Captain John use a shorter vowel (not Scots short but not south/south-east long either).

William was indeed posh though, he clearly adopted a working class accent because it sounds harder (and in England at least, all other things being equal, the further north you go the harder you sound, according to popular perception).

Like I say though, he doesn't really say enough to get a precise idea, could be he's trying for something else (Welsh, Irish, Cockney, anything) but not quite managing it.
You know to see JM's powerful moves, not to get a closer look at the bare chest.

I think you'll find that there is a t-shirt under the jacket so sadly no bare chest on view. Lovely trailer though, I especially liked the shot of him emerging from the light.
Yeah he's got a t-shirt on, could be you started to swoon before you got a proper look Mirage ? ;-)
I think you'll find that there is a t-shirt under the jacket so sadly no bare chest on view.

Yeah he's got a t-shirt on, could be you started to swoon before you got a proper look Mirage ? ;-)

*nods nods* Yes, which just proves what I said. Powerful moves. It's just that his well-defined... uhem... well, some people might get confused. I'm just saying.
With either Spike or Captain John, it doesn't make too much sense to try to pigeonhole their accents. Spike has been traveling all around the world for over a century, and certainly all over England and the US, so his accent would tend not to be strictly regional. SImilarly, Captain John would seem to be from the future like Captain Jack, and even if we knew from where, it's unlikely their regional accents would match those of 2007.

(And SQUEE to finally seeing Captain John in action, albeit for only a few seconds)
As long as we're on the subject of accents here, I hope you can entertain a slightly dumb Yank question.

While I was watching Life On Mars, I noticed the accents and terminology used were different than others I've heard (not that I've watched a ton of British television, mind). Was that a result of the series taking place in Manchester, the time period (1973) or both?
Yes ? Well, it's logically correct (on occasion if someone asks "Tea or Coffee ?" i'll answer "Yes". Strangely not everyone finds this hilarious - a programmer friend made me laugh one time when, after my yes, he hesitated for about a second and then went "OK, Tea Xor Coffee then ?". Sad but true ;).

(it's both deepgirl187, the accents mainly because of place, the terminology mainly because of time - and occupational jargon/slang to some extent as well)

With either Spike or Captain John, it doesn't make too much sense to try to pigeonhole their accents.

Yep absolutely agree, which is partly why I didn't ;).
"OK, Tea Xor Coffee then ?". Sad but true ;).


That's awesome. I was actually editing it to say accents - place and jargon - time & occupation, but I couldn't bring myself to do it without giving Saje some time to respond. See? I was totally right to wait, cause we got the Xor story :)
Mmmm...I now have that lovely promo shot of the Captains as my wallpaper. All kinds of tasty.
Yeah zeitgeist, think I bought him a well-deserved pint off the back of it, clever bastard ;).

(in retrospect "Yes" would strictly still be correct I reckon but when it's that quick and funny, you just have to enjoy it and bow down before the master - and I was certainly laughing too hard at the time to figure it out ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2007-12-19 23:52 ]
It would make sense to be on at 9pm on a Wednesday night.

The Heroes slot, you mean, Simon? That does make sense.

Spike always used American "a" vowels, which would be unlikely in a strictly logical world. But a certain Yorkshire vengeance-seeker in Angel never has a trace of a Yorkshire accent, so it's easy to forgive the odd northern vowel in what is otherwise predominantly Norf Lunnon.

And it's very hard to focus on the accents when there is so very much pretty in one trailer, after all.
I hope this means we get more Capt. Jack flashbacks. I want The Real Jack Harkness to show up again, maybe because of time travel. I want them to finally consummate their feelings in more than just a kiss.

But John/James slash will suffice...for now.
At long last.....a glimpse of JM and JB on screen together. :D

Also anxiously waiting to find out whether CBC will be airing series two any time in the remotely near future.....chances would not be good though. They really don't seem to care about the show, what with the messing around of the schedule of the final series one episodes after Christmas and all. :(
does anyone know if any/how much editing happens for the US Torchwood? I've heard many a complaint from the Who community about Sci-Fi's butchering of Doctor Who...same with TW?
annagranfors Not entirely positive about the BBCA versions, but CBC cuts enormous chunks out of episodes of Torchwood- Gwen's boyfriend, for example, has been almost non-existent (I'm pretty sure he's been entirely cut from some eps), they've edited out a few of the racier scenes/some of the dialogue, they blur the f-bomb, jump into scenes half way through, they've edited out the middle of a couple of scenes (non-essential bits, but the editing job of these cuts is terrible) and it's overall extremely frustrating. :(

Though as far as I know, the BBCA versions aren't anywhere near as drastic. (two to three minutes from each ep I've heard, and edited for time rather than content)
Trek_Girl42...well, that's effed up. I'm sure most of the people reading this thread can avail themselves, one way or another, of the unedited BBC version, and really recommend that they do so. even the two to three minutes you mention shouldn't happen.

(there, too, I prefer the UK Buffys because you can get the full 16x9...I know Joss prefers the original, but I loves me some Buffy cinematic...) :)
Yes ? Well, it's logically correct (on occasion if someone asks "Tea or Coffee ?" i'll answer "Yes". Strangely not everyone finds this hilarious - a programmer friend made me laugh one time when, after my yes, he hesitated for about a second and then went "OK, Tea Xor Coffee then ?". Sad but true ;).

I admit it. I'm dense. I just don't get it. It's a computer thing, isn't it.
I see a lot of people throwing around different dates but at the end of the trailer it stated Saturday January 26 at 9:00 p.m. Not sure about UK or Canada. I'm glad they aren't making us wait until the fall. Torchwood, Jericho, Lost and Terminator. Should be fun.
It's nice to see a trailer that actually has James in it (no matter how fleeting). I've seen the P.S. I Love You trailer to the point I lunge for the mute on my remote, especially since James is nowhere to be found.
What the heck? That's not a western! That looks pretty coo-ell.
especially since James is nowhere to be found.

Actually he is in it, you just have to look really closely for that one second. :grumbles:
I see a lot of people throwing around different dates ...

Well, they shouldn't be Dietcoke, it's been confirmed as the 26th in the US for weeks/months. The original question on this thread was when does it start in the UK (which, rumours aside, is still just "mid-January" - though Simon and others are spot on, "Heroes" has just finished on BBC2 so it'd make sense for 'Torchwood' to fill that slot).

I admit it. I'm dense. I just don't get it. It's a computer thing, isn't it.

Yep ;).

(just to send everyone to sleep, with a logical 'OR', if either item is true - or both are - the outcome is true. So if I wanted either Tea OR Coffee OR Both I can say "Yes" and logically match an outcome. With a logical Xor - exclusive OR - if both items are true then the outcome is false, so strictly if I want Tea OR Coffee I can still say "Yes" but that's now wrong in the case of Both - the funny comes from the quick realisation of what I was doing and a brilliant stab at trying to narrow the possibilities. Google "truth tables" for more, or probably more sensibly, just ignore this and carry on with your life, shaking your head at "those geeks" ;)
Question for U.K. peeps .... Does BBC run Torchwood without commercials? (I know, I'm a clueless Yank). Because if so, we lose a lot more than 2-3 minutes on BBCA. I've actually timed the commercials & they add up to about seven to eight minutes in each hour long slot.

As for the trailer .... well, I couldn't be any more excited about the return of Torchwood than I already am but .... no, I will retain my dignity and refrain from squeeeeing ;-)
Joining in the Countrycide love, I thought it was brilliant and seriously creepy and very X-Files with the departure from where the show had gone up to that point and what you were led to expect at the beginning. Also excellent camera work.

As for Cyberwoman, for all it's being the worst ep of the season, I can only say to Dr. Who fans .... what can you expect, considering the source? Surely nothing could be as cheesy as the "cybermen" eps of Dr. Who. Still trying to watch Dr. Who, which is constantly re-run on BBCA & now SciFi, mainly for any hint of Captain Jack's origins and his prior relationship with The Dr. Actually warming up to it a bit but still not quite getting how much is supposed to be taken seriously and how much is played totally for campiness. Must be a Brit thing that I can't quite relate to. Trying to think in terms of "it wears the cheese, the cheese does not wear it". :)

Going to pre-order Torchwood season 1 from Amazon and it better be the uncut, original BBC version.

*HappyHappy Dance*
Shey - In the UK Torchwood was shown on BBC3 on its first run and will be "promoted" to BBC2 for the second season. The BBC channels are funded by our TV licence system (basically everyone who owns a TV coughs up GBP 120 (approx) per year to the government who use it to fund BBC TV/Radio so it (in the UK anyway) is non commercial, so no adverts (other than plugging their own shows/services).
No, the BBC doesn't have commercial breaks at all Shey (ETA: as Jack Diamond mentions ;), it's financed by the licence fee which you could view as a sort of legally enforced, compulsory "cable TV" subscription (except the Beeb's broadcast, not cable). 'Torchwood' isn't a full hour long though, it's only about 50 minutes, otherwise you'd have to cut huge amounts out just for time.

A lot of people resent paying the licence fee BTW (which I can understand) but personally I think it's a useful bulwark against the sort of craziness you apparently have in the US where you have the teaser and credits then another ad break (most hour-long US network shows have around 18 minutes of adverts in them). Friends that have stayed there say they couldn't watch TV because there were so many breaks.

(that said, what happens with shows like 'Spooks' - 'MI5' to you guys - which is very nearly a full BBC hour ? Is it cut or does it run for longer than an hour in the US ?)

Re: 'Doctor Who', maybe it is a Brit thing I dunno. There's a couple of differences between 'Doctor Who' and 'Torchwood' though I reckon. First, 'Doctor Who' is a family show and always has been, you can get away with a lot more campiness and cheese in a show partly aimed at kids than you can in one solely for adults. Secondly, 'Doctor Who' has been around for over 40 years, it's literally ingrained in the nation's psyche and even people that actively avoid sci-fi will recognise the name, the TARDIS and very likely the theme tune from even just a few bars. In other words, it's earned a hell of a lot of credit, if it wants to spend some of it on cheese or drop the odd bollock occasionally, i'm not gonna grumble. 'Torchwood' hasn't been and isn't and so it (rightly IMO) doesn't get cut the same slack.

[ edited by Saje on 2007-12-20 13:09 ]
Thanks guys. Saje I am aware of the length of the Dr. Who legacy in the U.K. There is some similarity to the Star Trek legacy here in the U.S., all family friendly, and the spin-offs & the movies get a "cheesiness " pass, & we love them anyhow.

I just don't see Torchwood as in any way cheesy, I see it as a cross between The X-Files (with lots more tongue in cheek), and BtS for the emphasis on characterization and witty dialog. OK, there's some clunky stuff there too, but hey, not even BtS was perfect in it's first season.
I actually had a friend make that exact same comparison for the exact same reasons, before I had a chance to bring it up myself. A marathon of geeky, genre love conversation ensued. It was all good ;-)
No, the BBC doesn't have commercial breaks


Apart from the breaks that promote their own shows and products.
I've actually timed the commercials & they add up to about seven to eight minutes in each hour long slot.


Which is amazing for a show on US air... As Saje rightly points out, hour shows here get at least 18 (and up to 22) minutes of commercials. Half hour shows get from 8 to 11 or so... yeugh... Anyway, yeah, Torchwood is between 46:41 and 52:43 run times for first season eps uncut. While the Cybermen eps were not my faves of the current Who run by a longshot, Cyberwoman was WAY cheesier and Torchwood is too young to have earned a pass on that :)
Apart from the breaks that promote their own shows and products.

But not during programmes Simon. And anyway, since the BBC is a non-commercial corporation, you need another name for those (uncommercial breaks ? ;).

Shey, I think a cheese case could probably be made for the 'weevil' alien dudes in the pilot and certainly for the "semi-Cyber" woman in that ... episode ;).

Maybe it's just down to the writing but when 'Doctor Who' does something silly it almost always seems knowing, with 'Torchwood' it almost never does, there's never a twinkle in its eye or a song in its heart.

Also, much as I like Jack, 'Torchwood' doesn't have a character like The Doctor to drag you past the silly bits through sheer momentum. Sure, 'Who' has crapness and (even now) the odd appallingly bad effect but it also has Nine's 'damp little island' speech or his genuinely joyous (and joyful) celebration in 'The Empty Child'/'The Doctor Dances' or the "slow road" in "The Girl in the Fireplace" and though the plots are sometimes silly in 'Doctor Who', the characters almost never are (and as i've already mentioned, specific instances aside, I don't hear much in the way of wit when I watch TW, the "clunks" must drown it out ;). Even the TARDIS fits us (Brits) better than all the super-tech the "woodies" (just made that up, whaddya think ? ;) have to play with. It's, literally, big through its smallness ;).

(that said, it's worth being clear that DW hasn't sat in some revered position for decades, it's certainly - largely - viewed fondly, like a slightly embarrassing, slightly dotty Uncle but it's also been on the end of numerous jokes over the years about its wobbly sets, rubber monsters and over-acting)

And i'm still hopeful that 'Torchwood' can turn into something i'm keen to watch, instead of feeling almost obligated. Series 2 sounds to be a big step in the right direction.

[ edited by Saje on 2007-12-20 14:15 ]
But not during programmes Simon.


If you don't count the product placements that drew some press ire, then yes.
Hmm, do you mean from a couple of years back Simon or have there been more recent allegations ? As I understood it, those were all related to independent production companies and they were all largely baseless anyway (in a sting operation, one guy even pointed to the BBC guidelines on "minimum product visibility" and declined the offer).

Course, the BBC was rightly held accountable for programmes it aired, even if they were actually made by someone else (e.g. Kudos or Hat Trick Productions - i've no idea if those specific companies were involved but since about every second BBC show seems to be from Kudos I wouldn't be surprised ;).

(the rigged phone competitions are a bigger deal I reckon but even they weren't really done for commercial gain either)
All I can say about this is CAN'T WAIT, CAN'T WAIT, CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!! And that is all I have to say about this.
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I have an answer about running times and etc.

I played an episode of Torchwood which was ahem "obtained" from the BBC, on my computer, while I was watching the "on demand" version on BBC America. Those episodes were the same.

The broadcast episodes on BBC America, have been edited. The Rhys and Gwen scenes seem to take a hit, plus in the opening show, a bit of the security guard's "solo action".

I've noticed with both TW and DW, that the main plot seem to be pretty much intact, with the more personal sections deleted. It can make things a bit murkier later, when it comes to character motivesand such.

Verdict - if you are a BBC America watcher that has the On Demand option - use it.
Not even going to jump into the accent debate. Lived in Cambridge for all of four months fifteen years ago and all I can distinguish between is posh and not so posh.

Soooo excited about TW this season. Loved seeing James pop up. "Did I mention I'm armed?" Dude, nothing like a bad guy bearing gifts, I mean, two fists of weaponry.

Looks to be a fun season!
JM with JB on Torchwood. Snogging and playing with big weapons.

This is gonna be the best. episode. of. anything...ever.
anindoorkitty - /agree :)
especially since James is nowhere to be found.

Actually he is in it, you just have to look really closely for that one second. :grumbles:


Jesus - I hope his actual role is bigger because that trailer flips by so fast I can't pick him out.
look at :59 sec on this http://youtube.com/watch?v=3GNxdc-wlw4&feature=related

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