Argh, beat me to it. Oddly, we choose the same awesome tag. You know the one.

theonetruebix | February 07, 05:34 CET

omg ... I'm seeing double .... must be in the ...... Twilight Zone ....

resa | February 07, 05:36 CET

Ha! When you posted yours, bix, I saw the same tag and thought, "Ahhh, how cute!"

Pliny | February 07, 05:38 CET

He's right. The AMPTP showed that it doesn't want partners, it wants victims, preferably of the crushed and timid sort. Even when a deal comes, the creatives need to find alternative ways of doing business so they can keep this from happening to them again. Let a thousand (David) Lettermen bloom!

Pointy | February 07, 05:43 CET

I'm optimistic that the strike could end sooner rather than later, but Joss is right here in saying that we should have a "wait-and-see" attitude about what the deal really is. The studios have pulled the rug from under the writers before, and they will do it again. I want the writers to get the best deal possible.

crazygolfa | February 07, 05:45 CET

I just wonder where the AMPTP has stashed all of the reasonable. To be in that organization, do you have to have your reasonable removed, a la Lorne's sleep, by some Wolfram-y and Hart-ish scheme?

The stance of the AMPTP, as I understand it, makes no kind of sense to me, and I am no simpleton.

As an artist, and as a human, I am so proud of the WGA. I hope fervently that they will not give in.

Raggedy Edge | February 07, 06:31 CET

Joss's pissed rhetoric actually makes me more hopeful than all the rumors that have been flooding the guild and media. These hopes framed on hearsay have been grinding me down vastly more than the three months we've been on the line. Crazy. Crazy like a Joss. And I'd been thinking I was a horrible person for not skipping through the fields of proverbial daisies. (Possibly the proverbial fields.)

I feel a bit less like I ought to be lynched now. Thanks J-man. And thanks for dropping the Steinway-Grand-of-obviousness on our heads to remind us what we're fighting for. Even if I do like the fucking awards shows.

Banter | February 07, 06:46 CET

Now that's writing, y'all.

Writing that reminds us forcefully that good writing begins with the thinking and the understanding, and ends in what Joss did there so well.

*feels inspired*

It's important to remember that the AMPTP is totally bananoos and you must not try and make too much logical sense of what appears to be some bad cases of unmitigated ego.

(And when you read "the lethargy of limb that strikes the fighter as he unconsciously lets himself lose" - did anyone else picture Buffy as she puts the book back on the shelf over and over again in "The Weight of the World" ?)

QuoterGal | February 07, 06:47 CET

I don't know, the Predator species at least had a sense of nobility. If we're going to compare these guys to something, I'd personally suggest the xenomorphs from Alien. A more fitting comparison (what with the blood-thirstiness and all). ;)

deepgirl187 | February 07, 06:48 CET

Yeah, Predators can work with humans sometimes as long as they prove themselves worthy of the hunt and don't get in the way of killing Aliens.

Anyone else kinda sad that Joss has been mugged multiple times? I don't think I ever read that in an interview anywhere.

I was wondering a couple days ago why the studios didn't try some of these guerrilla attacks on the writers before, and I guess they must've thought the same thing at the same time.

archon | February 07, 08:15 CET

Hey Steven S. DeKnight posted a comment there.

Simon | February 07, 08:21 CET

Don't worry, archon, he's learned to fight back. He biffed me a couple times with a picket sign back in December.

By accident.

He claims.

Banter | February 07, 08:26 CET

There is so much I could rant about now, but my in exhausted yet fevered state of picketing for over six hours today, I'm inspired to tackle one thing in particular... the Academy Awards poster at the NBC Burbank bus shelter. Yeah, that f%$#ing awards show.

After reading and hearing Joss' thoughts on the subject, I wonder if he saw that Oscar poster at NBC today. It taunts the picketers with every pass we take in front of NBC. The fact that it remains there intact is a testament to the quality of the writers.

You see, this Oscars poster is right in front of us everyday. Smiling. Lying. It is advertising what the studios want the public to believe about Hollywood... that it is filled with wealthy, glamorous, luxurious celebrities celebrating everything that was great about the past year. Well, you certainly don't see any of that on the picket line. Not a single one of things. So, the studios want to sweep the strike under the rug and present their lie to the public as soon as possible. Naturally. Who can blame them?

Don't get me wrong. I love the Oscars. I’m a sucker for them. This is the first year ever in my memory that I didn't know everything about all the nominees. However, when Vanity Fair canceled their Oscar party, I think that the editor, Graydon Carter, had it right when he said, “A magazine like Vanity Fair is a group of writers and artists, and we are in solidarity with the writers and artists out there. Whether the strike is over or not, there are a lot of bruised feelings. I don’t think it’s appropriate for a big magazine from the East to come in and pretend nothing happened.”

Now, regardless of my rant above, I will be thrilled if the Oscars go on. That would have to mean, I hope, that the deal is good. But the deal has to be good. It has to be. Ultimately, what’s at stake here is people. People. Not a f%$#ing awards show. The studios can have their lie. But they need to take care of their people first.

I’m sorry for my rant. Forgive me. I'm cranky.

Pliny | February 07, 08:32 CET

The movie Ghandi was on the other day. For some reason, Joss' resolve reminds me of a quote from the movie:

"Whenever I despair, I remember that the way of truth and love has always won. There may be tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they may seem invincible, but in the end, they always fail. Think of it: always."

Okay, perhaps a bit on the dramatic side, but similar in theme. Though I am reminded of a story regarding a writers' strike from Hollywood's 'golden era'. Studio head Jack Warner hired thugs to 'deal with' some of the striking writers... two were shot and killed. Many studio execs attitudes are that writers are interchangeable, even disposable. Seems the only way they'll admit otherwise is when the writers can get their work produced another way.

And if the pressure of the looming f%$#ing awards show persuades the studios to make the right deal with the writers, then that's the best use of that show EVER.

11thHour | February 07, 08:37 CET

Deepgirl187 (seriously, how do you do quote-boxes?):
I don't know, the Predator species at least had a sense of nobility. If we're going to compare these guys to something, I'd personally suggest the xenomorphs from Alien. A more fitting comparison (what with the blood-thirstiness and all). ;)
----------

"I don't know which species is worse, you don't see them f*cking each other over for a god damned percentage!"

Seemed like a particularily apt quote in light of what was said above.

El_Smacko | February 07, 08:39 CET

Holy mother of mutants, I'm in. Joss is quite the motivator, ain't he. Don't give up, people! Yes, Fight. Fight. Fight.

electricspacegirl | February 07, 08:41 CET

b!X thought of it, and I did it - well, I faked it up, anyway:

The T-shirt I want.

(And El_Smacko, that info is here, in the "How to quote" section.)

QuoterGal | February 07, 08:55 CET

Hey Steven S. DeKnight posted a comment there.

Drew Goddard now, too.

theonetruebix | February 07, 09:43 CET

It's like being back at the Bronze.

Simon | February 07, 09:55 CET

De Knight and Goddard didn't just comment, they made with the (entirely appropriate) Joss-worship too. Extra cool points to the level of absolute zero!

Gill | February 07, 10:21 CET

I now have a clear image of the AMPTP walking around asking "Want some candy ?" in an eerily child-like voice. It's ... unsettling.

If we're going to compare these guys to something, I'd personally suggest the xenomorphs from Alien.

Nah, the Aliens are just doing what they do, they're beautiful animals in a way, the very peak of a Wrightian evolutionary maximum. Which is to say, you don't berate a dog for pissing on a lamp post but you can sure as shit berate a man for doing the same thing. We're supposed to know better.

The fact that it remains there intact is a testament to the quality of the writers.

You guys have Magic Markers in the US right Pliny ? I think you might call them Sharpies. Not that I would ever advocate vandalism on a public forum, that'd be illegal ;-).

Great writing, as you'd expect. Eye of the Tiger, Boss-man, it ain't over til it's over, stay on target, stay frosty, think fast, look alive, die hard ... um, when you're a jet you're a jet all the way (hey, those guys had flick knives, they're tough !). Keep on keepin' on basically.

Saje | February 07, 11:29 CET

Please end the writer's strike.

I'm now out of a job and the VFX gig I was about to sign on to (Where the Wild Things Are) just got pulled.

Us poor 3D artists are not unionized, if nothing is getting written then nothing is getting produced and none of us are working.

I don't look cute in poverty, I can promise you that!

Epona | February 07, 12:21 CET

Joss, you are beautiful in your articulateness, as in all other ways.
Who said it? ...... cancel the fracking Oscar ceremonies. Better yet, just postpone, specifically "until the WGA strike is settled". That would do away with the blame factor.

I realize that the show is produced by a network owned by a studio, but obviously, the writers are going to boycott the show and picket, if the strike is still on. The question is, how many actors are going to cross a picket line, with their own unions' contract up for renewal in June?

If the leadership of the WGA .... or some faction thereof, if the leadership is on the verge of wimping out .... would start contacting individual actors (or their reps) about that thing called "solidarity" and get enough a-listers to pledge to not cross a picket line, where would that leave the ceremony? It could be enough to get the studio/network producing the show to postpone it, just to save face.

Shey | February 07, 13:42 CET

Epona, is this from Sendak's book?
Sorry, back to subject at hand:
good to hear Joss's rallying cry and his writers' response! And only one snide remark. Not bad!

Lioness | February 07, 14:34 CET

Well, I can see why he was able to write Buffy.

jcs | February 07, 15:21 CET

QuoterGal, if you change the Oscar to a generic trophy, I'd order half a dozen to give to my staff here at a different f%$#ing awards show.

Aurec | February 07, 16:37 CET

Let's see. Comparing the AMPTP unfavorably to Wolfram and Hart, Predators, Aliens...saying they're totally "bananoos"...an extended quote from Gandhi that puts them in juxtaposition with "tyrants and murderers"...some of the class rhetoric and 'call to arms against Sauron and Satan' mentality on other threads...all of it makes me wonder where "all of the reasonable" on this forum got stashed.

I used to think Whedonesque was full of great people who didn't rush to demonize no matter how angry they were, and that the few who did were among the exceptions to the rule. Ironically, some of those posters now spouting the most offensive rhetoric...were the ones who used to rein me in whenever I went off the edge into the deep and crazy end of the pool, which probably happened a couple-three times a year. This writer's strike has changed more than I thought, apparently.

I started the strike with the position that I would support the writers no matter what. Indeed, I have never wavered in not supporting the AMPTP, and I think the writer's demands are reasonable ones. But the events of the past few months have forced me to the conclusion that I can't support the WGA, either. It's the "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality that I find so hard to swallow. Surely you can understand why. It wasn't that way here, once upon a time.

So, until the strike is over and this place is what it was, I'll find "an elsewhere to be." I'm not with you. I hope you don't think that means I'm against you. If you do...well, sorry, and I hope you change your mind. Bye.

BAFfler | February 07, 17:42 CET

No, it's more like "If you're cynically refusing to negotiate and trying to remove our livelihood we're against you". Since when did bullying tactics and unreasonable demands require a reasonable response BaFfler ?

Though presumably you won't read this anyway since you've, figuratively speaking, unilaterally terminated negotiations ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-02-07 18:22 ]

Saje | February 07, 18:21 CET

BAFfler said: "I used to think Whedonesque was full of great people who didn't rush to demonize no matter how angry they were"
Frankly I don't think the last two months have shown anyone on the WGA, or here at Whedonesque, rushing to anything. However over time most of us have seen the AMPTP lie publicly and unashamedly; we have seen lives and businesses destroyed in this incomprehensible attempt by the studios and networks to break the union. I think the pain and suffering of the people of Los Angeles actually warrants the language used against the AMPTP. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree, pretty much we knew back in November who was not on the same page. I don't see that anything has changed.

embers | February 07, 18:34 CET

BAFfler has a point. There's been a lot of mudslinging going on, which is never good. I suppose we've allowed it to continue because slinging mud at a giant faceless organisation doesn't seem that harmful. Perhaps we can all try to remember in the end it's people vs people all defending their ground no matter how misguided. Society is polarised enough as it is, let's not let this thing divide fandom even more.

Caroline | February 07, 19:02 CET

I'm not sure if I'm playing devil's advocate, or aardvark's advocate, or what, but so far as I can tell, this board is a place where people feel free to colorfully vent against, say, networks that cancel shows without giving them a chance. Why is that okay if it's not okay to colorfully vent against corporate entities that have managed to bring not just one TV show at a time but pretty much the whole of scripted/filmed entertainment produced in the U.S.A. to a halt? Nobody is *literally* slinging mud, doing violence or even angling to have anybody on the AMPTP side removed from their jobs (to the best of my knowledge, anyway). Nobody is saying people can't make "Stop the strike" posts here, if that's their position, but as the rhetoric on this board does not come with exhortations to do any harmful and illegal action, or even potentially libelous statements against a particular individual, I don't think anybody's overstepping a line here. Surely even Nick Counter can take being called "bananoos" once in awhile :) The board is about Joss Whedon. Joss Whedon is currently talking about the WGA strike, so it's reasonable that there will be posts on the board about what he's said, agreeing vehemently, disagreeing vehemently or bringing aardvarks into the conversation (I can't help myself). Without a total rehash of all the issues of the strike, I think one reason there's such vehemence on the WGA side is that people have tried to figure out why the AMPTP would feel their position is just, and most of us can't find any if-then thought process that allows us to mentally/morally grasp the AMPTP's standpoint. Not only does their position on the face of it seem illogical, it still seems illogical (again, speaking only for myself) after giving it a lot of attempted-empathetic thought. And this is where the exasperation comes from, which leads to colorful posts. It might be more *illuminating* if every single post soberly contained the pros and cons of the deal terms (as they are currently known), but sometimes fans and aardvarks just need to blow off a little virtual steam before it comes out our ears instead.

Shapenew | February 07, 20:10 CET

All of the strike discussion I've seen on Whedonesque has seemed pretty reasonable to me. But then again, I've spent far too much time reading the vitriolic comments on Deadline Hollywood Daily, so my idea of "reasonable" might be a tad skewed at this point. In any case, kudos to Joss for putting the mission statement back in perspective.

And on a lighter note, I could almost hear "The Final Countdown" playing while reading DeKnight and Goddard's comments.

Lady Brick | February 07, 21:38 CET

I don't think people should use Whedonesque to 'vent'.

Agree vehemently and disagree vehemently all you like, but perhaps you can try to do it without making other members of this community feel the need to leave. I don't like it when members leave because they don't feel comfortable.

Any further discussion of this matter will take place off site.

Caroline | February 07, 22:48 CET

Lioness, "Epona" is my name, hehe. I'm big on real internet identity 8P. Cheers to my mother for picking a name that's going to be used in fantasty fiction for years **roles eyes**.

Epona | February 08, 00:18 CET