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February 11 2008

Charisma Carpenter confirmed for Buffy Reunion. She's now the ninth cast member who'll be at the PaleyFest event.

Is it odd that now I'm having different mental seating charts of how every could be sitting?

You're right. It is odd.

Joss is always in the middle! ;)
Now, if they can get Aly and Tony, it's gonna be a mad house.
Mirage, does it look something like this? ;-)

This is like the 5th iteration of "could this get any better?". (Yeah, we'll gladly take more.) I'm confident they'll put out a DVD, lest legions of us descend on them with torches and pitchforks.
I guess this makes David officially unofficial.

I hope this thing is like 5 hours long just to do it justice. Lucky people with tickets...
I think it's an hour.
jam2, Leonardo da Vinci cannot capture the greatness that will be this...

Now DVDs, that's another matter all together. I've got a pitchfork, but no torches. Would a candle work?
Now that the strike is over, I wonder if that would keep David or any others that might have to be at work from attending the event.
Well, it's unclear if Bones is even filming any more episodes this year, according to TV Guide. So, David has a good chance of having the day free.
I'm getting a picture of a neat-o gag photo, now that at least three actresses playing the Canonically Departed have signed up. (Even tho I'm still waiting for Cordelia to show up in "After the Fall" and say "We fooled ya!")

If the Paley Center has a prop room or a museum, get some weapons or torture devices (maybe the Three Stooges' left-over ice tongs) and get Amber and Emma crouching one ither side of Joss's chair and Charisma standing behind it wielding their tools of terror and captioned soemthing like "Bump Us Off, Willya?" or "Payback Is Soemtimes Three Bitcas" or such .
jam2, your comment made me laugh, but I agree with Mirage, daVinci's got nothing on the amazingness of this reunion. I wish I could go!
If the Paley Center has a prop room or a museum, get some weapons or torture devices (maybe the Three Stooges' left-over ice tongs) and get Amber and Emma crouching one ither side of Joss's chair and Charisma standing behind it wielding their tools of terror and captioned soemthing like "Bump Us Off, Willya?" or "Payback Is Sometimes Three Bitcas" or such.

Well, no, but it does have a nice gift shop. It used to have a lot of Angel t-shirts but that was three years ago.
I see there's a couple of sets of tickets up for sale on ebay.

I'm torn between thinking they shouldn't allow this and placing a bid.
It's been so difficult for me because every time I think about this event, it tears me up inside that I can't go. This is the one semester I'm studying abroad in the UK and while it's a fabulous time for sure, if I hadn't gone this semester, I'd have the money and means to go to this reunion! Shucks!

*is also hoping for a DVD*
Every time I log on, I get more jealous. This is ridiculous, I so wish I could be there.
I'm torn between thinking they shouldn't allow this and placing a bid.

I'm torn between the urge to report'em for scalping and the urge to hunt'em down and slap the livin' snake-snot out of'em myself...

(Sour grapes? Moi? Hell, yes!)
I'm having a hard time getting my mother, a non-Buffy fan, to understand why this is such a big deal.

"They're just writers who wrote some words, and actors who performed and said the lines."

How do you respond to that??

DaddyCatALSO I highly doubt there is going to be any time for any photos, other than ones snapped during the panel. From what I'm understanding this is a pretty much rush-rush kind of thing, so hardly any "Hey! How ya doin? Been a while" time between the cast, much less any staged photo ops. How they're going to give everyone a chance to talk during an hour panel is beyond me. Especially given how...verbose certain cast members are.

'course, if I'd been able to pull off CN: TCTW, then there'd been time for photo shoots and meet&greets and fun stuff like that. Alas.

I hate Ticket Web so very much.
Well those ebay sets of 2 are now going for over $500 each, with one pair, for reasons unclear to me, outstripping the others at $760 (with almost 17 hours remaining) . . . ye gods. For that money, the bidder could have purchased the package deal for 4 sets of premium tickets. I don't have a problem with auctions per se (since they determine the people most willing to pay), so long as the means of obtaining the tickets was fair to begin with. Not certain it was in this case, and I feel horrible for those who bought Paley center memberships that are worthless for them - that money should be reimbursed, I reckon.
Ticketweb is absolutely worthless!
I wished for Charisma, and it happened! Maybe I should have wished they had retained some tickets to auction off for charity, as well.

I was severely contemplating paying whatever it took to get to this until I decided that, with interest rates on the up and up here in Australia, it's a ridiculous notion to spend 3K+ on a few days in LA. Reassure me I've made the right decision, please?!
How do you respond to that??

"My culture matters to me."
This is ridiculously important. And the fact that only 5 or so people can actually attend is fucking shite.

I cannot believe that something this huge in our Whedon World is going on, and nobody can go.

Something needs to happen here. Something positive and of the good to open this up to more folk - more fans. Nearly all our stars are going, and we aren't? When has this ever happened? Never? And we are excluded. Not even a chance to buy a ticket, to see what may be the ONLY BtVS reunion ever.

This is criminal. The people that would most love and appreciate seeing these actors, all on the same stage together, are excluded. Sorry, fuckfaces, YOU don't get in. No soup for you.

I am really pissed off. No, I mean REALLY.
Wow. I get that people would love to be there for this, but I think we're getting a little extreme now. Neither the Paley nor the guests owe anyone anything.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-02-12 07:12 ]
Man, I would love to have gone to this. The interesting stuff only takes place when I'm out of town.
Is that right, bix? Am I getting a little extreme?

Nobody said the Paley or the guests owed me anything. I just can't believe that within the scope of the fandom, almost nobody gets to see this happen. And yeah, I'm plenty horked off about it.

You aren't stupefied by the scope of this event and the fact that fans can't go? YOU? One of the most active and productive fans of a fandom ever? This isn't a convention, or anything like that. It's a gathering of talent that is unparallelled in our particular realm of quality entertainment recognition, appreciation, and love. You are just shrugging and saying "oh well, way it goes"?

Whatever. I can be pissed about being excluded, and I am. I'm sure it will be a great event, and I'm really happy (and envious) for those few that get to go, but yeah, I'm mad that there isn't even a remote opportunity for true fans to see this live, and to realize that that audience will be mostly made up of curious 'members' instead of Josslovers like us.

Willowy: I agree it's unfair when technical problems prevent fans who'd love to see this from attending. And, even worse, it's awful when fans lay out money for memberships and get nothing in return. (And scalping tickets on ebay naturally pours a nice helping of salt in that wound.)

Where I disagree is the notion that all fans have been excluded. I reckon many fans bought Paley memberships in order to get tickets. Yes, I'm sure regular Paley members may have bought some of the tickets (that's their privilege for supporting the work of the center), but I think it might be a mistake to presume that because some members here weren't able to get tickets, no fans were able to get tickets. Some members here have already said they're going. Presumably members of the many other Buffy fansites are going. There are likely many fans of the show who aren't formally affiliated with fansites at all who are going (I wasn't involved online until 2004, well after the show's run had ended).

It goes without saying that you have the right to be pissed. But please don't take it out on other members.
Thanks SNT, and yeah, I am.

I didn't mean to say that ALL fans are being excluded, just the majority. Pretty sure not all Paley members signed up because they are Buffy fans. The wonky tech stuff is really bothersome, and so is the dearth of tickets. And I wasn't taking it out on other members. I took bix's remark to mean me, and I answered him directly.

I'm sure a few fans are going. But this event is so mind-boggling, so huge and so important... it's such a fucking shame that we all don't get even the slightest chance to try to go. I just don't see something like this happening again any time soon, if ever. If ever.

[ edited by Willowy on 2008-02-12 08:05 ]
It wasn't directed at you personally, Willowy, and I apologize if it came across that way. I've just been thinking, partly based upon a fair amount of what I've seen at cons and Q&A panels, that perhaps (and I say this hesitantly because obviously I have no idea what they are thinking) they're all willing to do this particular event precisely because it ISN'T an "everyone has the chance to try to go" room full of rabid fans.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-02-12 08:07 ]
Well, not to be annoyingly literal, but the Cinerama Dome at the Arclight has, I think, about a 1000-person capacity. The number of Buffy fans - even just limiting it to those who could and would want to go - is going to comfortably exceed that many times over. The majority of fans simply isn't going to be able to attend.

Now, if we're talking about everyone having the *chance* to get tickets, that's different. (Although even in that case, I'd have to support the Paley's policy of giving preferential treatment to its members.) But the majority will still not get in. What we really need to see, I guess, is either a simultaneous broadcast or a quick DVD release, as folks have been saying here. Or, best yet, a Buffy reunion tour, zigzagging the country before heading to Europe, Asia, and Australia. Much like the Spice Girls (oh, wait a minute . . .)
*Tosses hands up in the air*

bix, Willowy, SNT This really is an exclusive event - only members of the Paley Center were able to purchase tickets, and, from the sound of things, those fans who weren't members who bought a membership just to be able to buy a ticket were unable to do so.

To me, it's almost a thumbing of the nose of the "exlusive members" at the "unfortunate fans" who weren't able to purchase tickets. "We're going to have something the likes of which has never happened before, which we know you fans would love to attend. But, oh, sorry - you have to be a member to buy a ticket."

Supporting the Paley Center is all fine and everything, if that's what you want, and can afford, to do. But I'm fairly certain the money spent on the tickets is going to support them, as well. It would have been nice if more of us had had an opportunity for this truly once-in-a-lifetime event.

Even if the tickets had been avaiable to the general public, however, I still wouldn't have been able to go. Ticket price, airfare and hotel without a job? Not unless I win the lottery. In which case I'm making Carpe Noctem a reality.
"We're going to have something the likes of which has never happened before, which we know you fans would love to attend. But, oh, sorry - you have to be a member to buy a ticket."

I find this to be a little silly. The normal process is that if there are tickets left after members buy theirs, the public gets a chance. They sold out beforehand. (Which, frankly, suggests a fair number of fans amongst Paley's membership.) Were the members supposed to not buy tickets just to make sure non-members had the chance to?

Again, I get that people are dissatisfied, to varying degrees. But there's a weird sense of fandom entitlement cropping up in this thread, and I guess it's weirding me out because I just recently blogged a critical response to someone talking about fandom's sense of entitlement.

That someone had specifically mentioned Whedon fans, which is what set me off. But now this thread is making me wonder if they were more right than I had wanted to believe.
I've seen the sense of entitlement across fandoms of many kinds and perhaps it's just human nature to feel we have a right to all and everything. In music fandom you get the 'Gimme the mp3 of that exclusive performance now! NOW! For free, like!' vibe. It's more than a little off putting.
"That someone had specifically mentioned Whedon fans, which is what set me off. But now this thread is making me wonder if they were more right than I had wanted to believe."

Well, that sense of entitlement isn't something new nor is it something exclusive to Whedon fans, but there is a sense of entitlement in the fandom, I believe, that informs many of the happenings and events that occur within the fandom. It's not surprising that this sort of criticism has reared it's head (though its not completely without merit, I other words Willowy does have a point) in this fandom, a fandom that is fanatical at times, and a fandom that is known, much like trekkies, for the rabidness for which its actions are informed. There are numerous examples, none of which would further the debate and only stir emotions and arguments long since overcome (to an extent), but I think a sense of entitlement is actually what creates the kind of fandom similar to that of Buffy or Star Trek or Star Wars.

Fandoms of all types are built around the idea that fans have become part of the show, that they are small participants in the show, and in the Buffy fandom, you really get that idea when you understand the nature of the relationship between the writers of this show and the fans. In what other television show are the writers just as famous and sought after as the actors themselves? Few if any, and part of that is that the writers come right to Whedonesque or other boards and post about the show and the goings on within the show. Entitlement is something that is built up, something that is earned by faithful service to or wonderment of something greater, its the same for Americans and social security as it is for fandoms themselves, and the fandom of Buffy is no different. So when arguements like the one Willowy presents appear, it is not surprising that part of the motivation seems to be the feeling of entitlement (mind you, I am not sure that is something wholly bad--people are loyal and faithful to a show and a writer and thus feel as though they are part of something--thats just natural and not something surprising) that you point out BIX.

Of course, the point here is to realize that it would be great to be able to go to this event, we wish it was bigger and that it didn't sell out in 5 minutes and only to members, but that is the nature of the beast. When something is popular and enormous, everyone wants to play, especially those who were loyal and faithful and who feel as if they deserve at least the chance to go, and thats not something to be underestimated. There are times I believe when entitlement in a fandom forces those fans to take things too far, there are times when injustice seems to be the product of entitlement (just look at those endless SMG debates about commentary and the like), but in this case, I can understand how some would be angry about the happenings here. Hell, I am not even sure it's fair...

ETA: Or you know...what Caroline said works too.

[ edited by jerryst3161 on 2008-02-12 09:19 ]
bix I don't feel entitled at all. I just find it frustrating that things were handled as shoddily as they were. Do any fans of the other shows feel the same as we do? Are there..."Pushing Daisies" fans who signed up to be a member so they could buy tickets & got shafted? We don't know, unless we're a fan & are on a board where they're complaining.

Are we vocal? To quote Spike (Lord help me): "To coin a popular Sunnydale phrase, duh." Will it get us anything? Nope. Might make some of us feel better, though. :-)

No one likes to be locked out of the candy shop, ya know?
I've gone to the Paley Fest for about a decade now and it's always worked the same way. One thing is for sure - the actual ticket on sale always sucks and they should probably just switch to ticketmaster, who can handle all the sudden, increased traffic. But Buffy fans should be aware that this year, the Festival is actually at a bigger venue than ever. At least there was a SLIGHTLY larger chance of getting in.

Regardless, in the the past it's always been the same as far as non-members getting to buy tickets first, and it's always been the same that many popular series sell out before it even gets to non-members (and of course that people buy memberships just to try to get tickets, with varying success). But whether a non-member or a member, it's safe to assume the people who bought the tickets (or I should say the FINAL people who buy the tickets, in the case of people re-selling, which is another issue) are there because they want to be there, otherwise... why go?

As impassioned as Joss's fandom is, there have been tons of fans of previous Paley Fest panels like Lost, The Office, Battlestar Galactica and more who have also had to deal with the same experience of not getting tickets, because the inevitable happened and the panel they wanted to go to sold out. No one is being singled out and targeted. Things sell out. I see that the Pushing Daisies panel is also sold out, and I'm sure there are more fans who'd like to go to that. It's too bad for them that they can't (and I really mean that, having been someone who's been unable to get into a sold out Paley Fest panel before), but it is understandable and not a specific injustice to anyone.
But whether a non-member or a member, it's safe to assume the people who bought the tickets ... are there because they want to be there, otherwise... why go?

That's part of what was rankling me. It was starting to sound like we were supposed to see these people as not "real" fans, and as preventing "real" fans from having the chance -- or, "curious 'members' instead of Josslovers". That's a pretty toxic and somewhat ugly position to take.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-02-12 09:40 ]
I was just wondering earlier today why Charisma wasn't attending this. Good to know she'll be there too!
No one likes to be locked out of the candy shop, ya know?

Unless they're diabetic. Think about it, you could save a life.

To the discontented, as mentioned previously, make sure you (calmly and politely) highlight your issues to the organisers - that way they'll be even more likely to produce a DVD, possibly in a more timely manner than I gather is usually the case.

I understand people being pissed off but them's the breaks and (obviously apart from the ticket touts) anyone willing to go through the trouble to get a ticket (and by all accounts it was a lot of trouble) is clearly a fan or they wouldn't bother. Re: refund of memberships - if there's a guarantee that comes with membership that you WILL be able to get tickets for all events then those people have a case. Otherwise (unfortunately) the old maxim stands: If you want guarantees, buy a toaster.
If you want guarantees, buy a toaster

My toaster burn my toast this morning. That is why I am a half-empty cup person. *shrug* Well, not just that. ;)

I am still a hopeful person (I hope for things to happen, but don't anticipate them, weird no?) so I’m hopeful for three things. Tony, Aly and a DVD. We always appreciate the hard work people put in writing their transcripts and recaps of similar events, but this is a biggie. I want to be selfish and have both.
Well it might still burn your toast, there's no guarantee it won't do that BUT it won't go online, buy up Paley Fest tickets en masse and then sell them at vastly inflated prices on eBay - guaranteed. See, you know where you stand with a toaster.
ShadowQuest:True, I think I was just venting at Joss again.
"Toxic", and "ugly" - thanks, bix. 'Cause yeah, that's exactly where I meant to go. Yay you.
*shrug* If one doesn't like toxic and ugly positions, one ought not to take them. What, exactly, is "audience will be mostly made up of curious 'members' instead of Josslovers" except a declaration that one is more authentic than someone else?

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-02-12 17:45 ]
Passing by the method of ticket sales employed, something that I think will always be a contentious issue for an event where demand exceeds supply, this is an incredible and exciting line-up. The audience is surely in for a real treat and I am sure a large number of the 825 or so people there will be genuine 'Buffy' fans. I hope the questions from the floor are interesting and that there is sufficient time for good discussion to develop.

There will no doubt be plenty of pictures and transcripts and reports once it has taken place, so in the end we will all get a flavour of this potentially tremendous event.
Is there any particular question that the majority of people on here want answered? My friend and I can certainly raise our hands and hope to get called on, maybe in a small part then everyone here can feel represented :)
Teacherdarling Um, you mean besides the obvious "So when's the Buffy movie coming out?"? :-)
Thats the most important one? That would be sooooo dang cool!
gossi - were you kidding when you said it would only be for one hour? That is not enough time! If it really is only one hour - that somehow makes me feel a tiny bit better about not going. They would basically only have time to say what they've each been up to since the show ended. I want GOSSIP - JUICY JUCIY gossip! Like did Sarah and David REALLY put gross stuff in their mouths before they kissed kinda gossip.
Well - here's to a dvd and continued polite discourse on whedonesque. I would have loved to have gone to this but like saje said 'them's the breaks.'
Here's what irks me. Someone was selling tickets for $125 each on Craigslist over the weekend. She had 4 of them, comp tickets cast off from her sister who had worked on the show. Now, I certainly understand that a lot of tickets are given away to such people for these events. But seriously? You couldn't say "Thanks, but I can't use them, go ahead and toss them back in the pool?" You really had to take the opportunity to make a profit off of a gift when a zillion people are waiting in line to buy tickets? I mean, sure. They were a gift and hers to do with as she pleased. But seriously? Not cool.
At least could a ticket or two be auctioned for Equality Now?

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