Good. (Quite simply).

gossi | March 14, 10:03 CET

On top of Spike: ATF being announced, this just makes my day (maybe even my week).

catalyst2 | March 14, 10:26 CET

Yep, good about covers it (oh OK, really good then).

Pity though, blows my theory of a modern retelling of 'Paradise Lost' out of the water. Ugly fact/beautiful hypothesis interface scenario (only not so ugly ;).

Saje | March 14, 10:30 CET

Well, to steal from 'If you build it, they will come',
if you put more ATF out- *I* will buy!

missb | March 14, 10:50 CET

I hope IDW plan a long-term follow-up scenario for ATF, because Angel certainly offers a wealth of possible outcomes that rivals with Buffy S8. Maybe involving other names than Brian for a series of arcs, since he'll be busy with Everybody's Dead, the Sims movie and Puss in Boots. In the Watcher's words, preparation, preparation, preparation.

Perseo | March 14, 11:50 CET

Am I the only person here who sort of hopes they don't just keep creating more ad infinitum ?

I like endings too, when they're done well.

Saje | March 14, 12:10 CET

I agree with Saje. *is taken aback* Yeah, I'm surprised too. Not that 'I agree with Saje' *wink* but that I would actually even think of the Verse ending. I think the years of nothingness have rubbed off on me. So, I'll say this. I wouldn't want it to end up being Star Trek but I'd love to see more of it, if that means that it won't start "filling up" spaces just for the sake of filling up, and keeps on giving us good well-written stories. But, when the well dries, please, know when to stop digging.

Not that I'm hoping for any well drying or muse running away. You know, like how my mouth is running off senselessly...

*waves I LOVE MY FANDOM flag*

Mirage | March 14, 13:25 CET

Thats cool.

I think the 'After the Fall' title will run for around 17 issues(including the First Night and Spike minis).

However I have a feeling, and I hope, that the Angel title will continue after that!

angeliclestat | March 14, 16:30 CET

I can see a danger of it becoming Angel: Milking The Fans but I would like to think there is a definitive ending. And if there's stories to be told before the big finale then I look forward to reading them.

Simon | March 14, 16:33 CET

When I first heard they were continuing Angel, I was somewhat disappointed. I thought that the Angel finale was the best ending I've ever seen on a screen. It fit the series. Redemption is never quite complete, you got to keep fighting. Naturally, I am very pleased with Bryan's work on the comic series, and as long as they keep it coming, I will keep reading. Having a definite end somewhere in the future would be comforting, however. Closure is good. As long as it's good closure :-) I trust the guys.

Valentyn | March 14, 16:41 CET

Sweet fancy Christmas!

windmillchaser | March 14, 16:41 CET

I agree with Simon, so long as Joss has stories about Angel he wants to tell then I want to hear them. I had loved 'Fade Away' on television, but I was also aware that Angel had been canceled and there were ideas for season 6 that were being lost. I have no problem with an open ended universe, I only want the door shut when Joss Whedon is totally out of ideas (which I don't see happening any time soon).

embers | March 14, 17:30 CET

I can only think of one way for Angel's story to really and truly end. I'm not sure I want that.

TamaraC | March 14, 17:34 CET

I don't think the dancing giraffes will be as corny as you think TamaraC, though I too have reservations.

Saje | March 14, 17:42 CET

Oh don't worry, it is absolutely building to an ending, I'm not trying to extend the story, I'm trying to make sure the story is paced correctly.

Brian Lynch | March 14, 18:11 CET

Thanks, Saje. I feel much better now. :)

TamaraC | March 14, 18:36 CET

Season 5 seams to be that season in the Buffyverse where it had the perfect endings for some. Buffy sacrificing herself for the world, and Angel about to fight a suicide fight in an alley for redemption are both wonderful endings to both series', but neither was suppose to be the true end. Angel is just a little harder to take a continuation on paper cause it didn't get 2 more seasons on tv. I still believe the vision of what was supposed to be is worthy of being told for as long as it takes though.

GimpyD | March 14, 19:28 CET

If "After the Fall" were a tree, what kind of tree would it be?

Seriously, I love how "After the Fall" feels more like one of those epic HBO or TNT miniseries ("Band of Brothers", "Into the West", "John Adams") with a finite scope as a nice contrast to the ongoing television series feel of Season 8. It's great to have both 'flavors' of story being told. If it goes 15, if it goes 16, if it goes 20 (too much, Brian?), and the story gets told in all the detail it demands, that's (I again quote Bill Parcells) "a good thing. Not a bad thing."

KingofCretins | March 14, 20:26 CET

Brian, we're behind ya *holds up the thrice read issues* and if the "pace" speaks to you and there are more good stories to tell, then damn it, more there shall be! Rainy day money is what this is for.

*grin* We all know in this particular verse, endings are never set in stone. Resurrection is a big part of this world after all ;)

Mirage | March 14, 20:56 CET

I, for one, have been looking forward to the dancing giraffes for ages. It's the singing crocodiles that I'm concerned about.

barboo | March 14, 21:03 CET

Honestly, the story is the same length it's always been. When it was mapped out, it was always "around 12 issues" (definitely not less, but maybe a couple more). When it was decided to make FIRST NIGHT part of the regular series instead of it's own beast (not sure if you remember, but it was supposed to be ATF taking a month break while FIRST NIGHT goes on), that took up three issues of the regular series, so naturally, ATF had to be expanded slightly or we'd have to lose three issues worth of story.

Just finishing up the script to issue 10 right now. Something happened that I absolutely love, the characters surprised me. I was scripting it, and then realized no, the characters would be way more pro-active than this, so suddenly this flood of great moments, one after the other, occurred. I think there's a lot of exciting stuff in these books, but issue 10, it's literally like a chain of "holy crap" moments.

Yes, I'm enjoying this series. Can you tell?

[ edited by Brian Lynch on 2008-03-14 22:02 ]

Brian Lynch | March 14, 22:01 CET

Yes, Brian, I think we can all tell and are really grateful for it/you/whatever. A:ATF is really powerful and exciting, and I'll confess that I wouldn't get tired of it in 2 years, or four for that matter. I really think it is lucky that someone as talented as you was willing to take on this little corner of the 'verse!

embers | March 14, 22:20 CET

I'm surprised by how tiring this series is, though. I think after that last page of ATF is written, I'm gonna take a long break and just sleep for a few years.

Brian Lynch | March 14, 22:22 CET

It is a common mistake to make, barboo. Crocodiles cannot sing, it's the falsetto alligators you need to worry about.

I have to say, when the writer enjoys what he's doing (and the characters speak to him so well that he has moments of tiring inspiration), it's a good sign that we're going to enjoy it too.

Mirage | March 14, 22:30 CET

Yep, ride him characters, ride him ! Err, in the good way. But not like that.

... where the hell's the delete key on this thing ...

Saje | March 14, 22:41 CET

Really grateful for the effort you're putting forth Brian. The effort shows too ... the story is great. But I'm with TamaraC ... I don't want Angel's story to really and truly end ...

resa | March 15, 00:53 CET

Based on Brian's comments, I'm really looking forward to issue 10. I think that the 'characters- taking-over-your-head-moments' is usually the very best writing you do.

And if this 'holy crap' moment ends in Spike and Angel waking up naked in a bed together- well, we're TOTALLY on the same page. (Come on, there IS more than one precedent!) ;-)

missb | March 15, 02:08 CET

Always glad to hear the Whedonverse is expanding. Just wondering -- am I the only one who immediately thinks, on seeing "ATF," "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms"? I always have a momentary blip where I imagine Angel and the team have signed up with the Feds to combat W&H's moonshine, carcinogenic and gun-running operations ...

Shapenew | March 15, 02:20 CET

to combat W&H's moonshine, carcinogenic and gun-running operations ...

But WR&H are meant to be evil.

(OK, maybe guns aren't that great ;)

Read authors talking about the characters going somewhere unexpected before. That must be an amazing thing to experience - "It's alive I tell you, ALIVE !" ;).

Saje | March 15, 10:03 CET

I'm always a little uncomfortable with the idea of fans having a say in how long a story should run or what should happen in it. One of the things that I dislike about the online world where we get to interact with those telling us these stories is that we get situations like this where Brian is having to reassure us that the story isn't going to go on too long for it's own good, in our opinion. Surely only he and Joss should have to worry about that? We should just be sitting back and letting the story unfold, rather than worrying that it may go on too long.

It's not such a big thing here, for two reasons. One, because we aren't the type of fanbase to make demands on a story. Despite the fact they got me thinking along these lines, comments made in the thread above are pretty general and understandable. Two, we have writers who aren't going to bend to our wishes even if we did start making demands. It's when the fanbase starts thinking it can control the story that I get a little worried. Certain Lost fans are very ready to say what should and shouldn't happen with the series. In fact, the Nikki and Paulo situation was a direct result, although the writers handled that whole issue with the deserved ironic attitude that only a show like Lost could offer.

It's actually happening with Supernatural, at the moment. The two new female recurring characters, Ruby and Bela, haven't gone down all that well with (from what I can see) a large and very vocal portion of the female fans of the show and because the show's writers do appreciate and pay attention to what is being said online, I fear for the future of the characters on the show. I hope I'm wrong because the actresses involved deserve better treatment than that and the characters are a lot more interesting than they are given credit for. Especially when the negative opinions they received came largely because of their gender and lack of the Winchester surname.

Like I said, I'm not seeing that "backseat writer" attitude here and even it did happen I'm pretty sure that Brian is confident enough about the quality of his work and his ability to judge when enough is enough to not let anyone write it but him (and maybe that Whedon guy). Fortunately, for the most part, we give opinions around here, rather than demands.

Koven | March 15, 13:11 CET

Yeah, just to be clear, I wasn't actually talking about the length of this story, that's entirely up to Brian and i'd never try to influence his process (*cough* jetpacks *cough* ;-) - I meant 'Angel' stories in general i.e. I actually want it to end at some point, even if the ending is "It never ends" as with the fab "Not Fade Away".

To a certain extent Angel's (or Buffy's) story isn't a story unless it has an end.

Saje | March 15, 13:37 CET

Yep, absolutely agree with that. The story of Buffy and Angel has to be given a definite end at some point. I'd say that the Buffyverse has the potential for infinite tales but there needs to be closure to the individual characters eventually. Even if only to pave the way for Fray.

And, even though I'm kinda against fans influencing the story, if Brian wanted to use Saje's jetpack idea, that wouldn't suck.

Illyria + jetpack = potential mini series.

Koven | March 15, 13:50 CET

Yep, absolutely agree with that. The story of Buffy and Angel has to be given a definite end at some point.

Oh, definitely. But, Angel can't die. He has to go on suffering forever. It's what makes him interesting. Seeing a happy Angel onscreen is just like a functional relationship on a TV show. It's just awful.

That doesn't mean Lynch should kill him, unless it's done in an awesome way. If Spike outlives Angel though, Lynch can be assured I'm coming after him in real life.

[ edited by The Sandy Llama on 2008-03-15 15:11 ]

The Sandy Llama | March 15, 15:07 CET

But we already had jetpacks on Buffy!

Also, Llama, I think you forgot the smiley face on that last sentence. :) ?

jcs | March 15, 15:43 CET

"If Spike outlives Angel though..."

What? You haven't heard about the Spike/Fray series that Brian hopes to do as a joint venture between IDW and Dark Horse. The opening scene, with Spike at Angel's grave, is totally heartbrea...

I'll say no more... ;)

Koven | March 15, 15:57 CET

That's weird, i'd heard the coffin was open and ... well, let's just say rather than heartbreaking it was kinda disgusting.

(OK, the tone is currently going at 'necrophilia', any advance on 'necrophilia' ? Going once ... ;)

Saje | March 15, 16:04 CET

Well since the topic has turned to necrophilia, I am hoping it isn't too off-topic to discuss Wesley's situation. I had actually hoped (when 'Not Fade Away' first aired) that Wes would come back as a zombie manipulated by his controlling Father (who had survived the destruction of the Watchers' Council). But instead I got ghostly Wesley, which is probably an improvement over disgusting brain eating zombie.... I'm just thrilled to have my Wesley in any shape for form, er... except that he doesn't have any real shape for form does he? I mean not really. So I guess this doesn't have so much to do with necrophilia, huh?

embers | March 15, 17:32 CET

Wait, aren't the vamps dead? I thought necrophilia was a given in this 'verse, from the start of the Buffy/Angel romance ... ? And how could Angel have a coffin? I mean, he could of course have one in the sense of purchasing/stealing/otherwise acquiring one, but would a dead-as-in-dusted vamp be buried in a coffin? Wouldn't that be an urn, unless Angel left world's biggest dustball? Personally, I'm always fine with the "and they walked -- or fought -- their way out of this story and into another" ending, but the storytellers should do what feels right for them, whatever that is. And to be clear, I wasn't demanding that ATF start becoming about the Bureau of ATF -- I'm just glad that the subtitle of the arc isn't something like "Ghosts of Purgatory" or "Some Purple Evil Werewolves," because that could be, you know, well ... :)

Shapenew | March 15, 18:21 CET

*totally ignores the ugly topic of necrophilia*

I once thought about writing a short story where Angel receives his reward i.e. turns human, takes a jog under the sun in that very fresh air day and then gets run over road-kill style by a drunk trucker.

The I realized that was stupid and wrote Spangel instead :D

I actually can see Angel getting his reward but then realizing what he had when he turned human for one day, that’s he’s nothing special anymore and that Buffy actually moved on - or dead. I can also see Spike carrying on, shouldering his burden –clearly not by choice- and outliving him by sad luck alone.

No necrophilia though... ... well, unless they're self-animated (un-zoombish) with their own mind functions and... *pushes away thoughts with a stick and into a magical urn*

Mirage | March 15, 19:14 CET

I totally see Spike outliving Angel. Spike is the kind of guy who just survives. Angel is the kind of guy who gives himself up in some grandiose sacrifice. It totally would make sense for Spike to survive long past Angel being dust.

TamaraC | March 15, 20:39 CET

I dunno, I see Spike as a beau geste kind of guy too but he'd carry it light and probably piss and moan all the way down (dying grandly wouldn't exactly be plan 'A' for Spike ;).

Sort of ironically given that Spike's the poet of the two, Angel always struck me as much more Byronic - maybe Blondie Bear's more in the Roger McGough mold ;).

Wait, aren't the vamps dead?

I think they prefer Undead Americans ;).

Saje | March 16, 02:18 CET

I'd agree but didn't Spike already die grandly??? when he wore the amulet and 'saved the world'. He certainly talked about it enough ;).


except neither one of them are American :-p

And TamaraC ... I don't want to think about Angel and dust at all. :)

resa | March 16, 04:02 CET

"I'd agree but didn't Spike already die grandly??? when he wore the amulet and 'saved the world'. He certainly talked about it enough ;)."

That was plan 'B'. Plan 'A' involved less burning up. ;)

Koven | March 16, 05:18 CET