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"I have to find my pleasure, Spike. You taste like ashes."
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March 27 2008

(SPOILER) Alex Garner's cover for 'Angel: After the Fall' #10 revealed. In Brian Lynch's Myspace blog.

Angel's looking all human and Illyria's looking all sitting-on-an-invisible-chair-y. that is stunning! composition & light and everything.
WOW again
That is one amazing cover.



isn't that just the most beautiful thing ever?
It's a nice cover, but I'm not liking the comment about how the cover happens in the story. That doesn't bode well for my hope that a certain someone is back...
looks like hell's going to finally freeze over ;-). Awesome cover and poor Angel ... he does look tired.
We knew Fred wouldn't be back to stay from #5. Spike obviously knew something was wrong with Illyria, and that she'd shift when she saw Wesley. It stands to reason that she'd be shifting from her "Fred" persona back to "Illyria" after you read what Spike talks with Angel about in #5 before the 'Fred' incident.
*plugs fingers in ears*

La la la. I didn't hear anything. I've gotta keep the hope alive... even if the chances of it being true aren't very good.

Oh, and I underestimated the cover. It's more than nice, I'll give it a very nice.
There should *so* be a spoiler warning on this link. Not only does it show stuff from future comics, it also shows stuff from "Everybody's Dead" that people may want to keep on the DL.
I love that cover
Amazing cover... but 'Fred as a daisy...' is that a spoiler? That sounds like a spoiler, it seems we can deduce a lot from that...
Okay, that is the best looking cover on something I've seen in a while. Seriously - that is awesome.
Vortigun, sometimes a pun is just a pun.

[ edited by Bruce on 2009-05-14 19:47 ]
Fun fact behind the scenes extra tidbit: Cordy was gonna come back this very issue but we were all like "let's stick it to Bruce".
After the Fall is awesome without Cordy, not that it wouldn't be awesome with her too, but at the moment it certainly hasn't felt any the worse for her not being there. There have been so many elements inter-weaved with the story that the story feels very full, there is a lot going on (in a good way of course).

Also, I kind of feel that some characters need to stay dead (except Tara). I also don't exactly see what her role in the story would be, maybe we will though in issues to come...
We want Merle! We want Merle!


Not Tim Minear.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-03-28 02:48 ]
looks like hell's going to finally freeze over

Or Angel battles the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to a gooey end.
Stunning cover! Very otherworldly and thrilling.
I wonder if the army in the background is with Angel or against him. Maybe it's people of LA fighting with him?
Now that is a bitchin cover
Finally a cover that doesn't make me cringe!!!!
Alex Garner needs to do the trade's cover and redo all the other covers!
I think the people in the background are attending a Judas Priest and an Ozzy Osbourne concert. Or it could be Chicago (The band, not the city). The people in the background are seriously rocking out.

[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-03-28 03:39 ]
Crazygolfa, you got a sneak peek at the actual comic, didn't you? Damn!

And xerox, thanks for being that guy!
Brian, yes, yes I did get a sneak peak of the comic.

Great issue though. ;)

ETA: The spoilers above are obviously fake...I hope.

[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-03-28 04:02 ]

[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-03-28 04:05 ]

[ edited by Bruce on 2009-05-14 19:48 ]
Absolutely gorgeous cover.

Bruce-Cordelia is not the only character that hasn't come back and I simply must disagree with you. It was a group effort that made Angel what it was: the writers, the actors, the directors and so on and so forth. No one person can be credited with that.
Oh Bruce, I never spoil one way or the other. There's always hope, and there's always absolutely no hope, that's the wonder that is ANGEL.
What kind of guy am I being?
Dictionary + Definition of the phrase "Bad Ass" = This picture.
Fantastic Cover!

I think Cordelia's story had about as happy an ending in 'You're Welcome' as it's possible to have on 'Angel'. I'd never want to see that story ruined just because it seems like a good way to bring in readers, or to re-hash old territory.

As per Fred/Illyria?
Who says that only one of them will live?
Illyria's hair ? Because, even in Hell, she's worth it.
Oh that is exquisite!

Angel is "human and older and worn out" and breathing; breathing such light, floaty, wispy condensation breath.
That is fangtastic, that is.

(Yes, I said "fangtastic.")
How could anyone pick Fred over Illyria. I love Fred to pieces or waffles, but if I were forced to choose between the 2 it would be Illyria hands down.
I was never a big Cordy fan but I thought she arched well and she's one I hope that dead stays dead for.
However the story plays out Whedon and Lynch both care too much about the characters for me to worry about where they're taking them. I am sure when it gets to the end I'll be more than satisfied. And plus the things people say are funny. I've missed Whedonesque hubub and it's really been a while so this is good. And it's just gonna get bigger. Woo Hoo!
For what it's worth, I really don't want Illyria to permanently change back into Fred. I rather like the Blue Meanie, and I can't imagine Fred lasting that long in Hell-A...though she did survive Pylea to her credit. If it turns out that Illyria and Fred are somehow sharing the same body, that would be very interesting. But to have Illyria disappear altogether? Even though I loved Fred, I think I would be saddened. Besides, Illyria just makes such an awesome comic book character!

As others have stated, I took Illyria's transformation into Fred merely as a sign of her emotional state. She seems to be pretty unstable. However, with her time-shifty powers, it could be that she is able to go back in time and be Fred again for a few moments, isn't it?

At any rate, I am anxious to see what happens! :-)
I wanted to do an eloquent post about how stunning the cover is but
WOW it taken away my brain skills how much gorgeous it is.

PS Cordelia shouldn't return for me. She sacrificated herself for Angel and the figth, she like Buffy, after she died, has the right to finally enjoy heaven.
Awesome cover.

And yes Cordy is in heaven, she is like a holy saint, that's why we love her so much. So she can't be in AtF's hell dimension.
I love it, and admittedly haven't kept up with the comic series, so maybe this was a spoiler to me. Should we be seeing breath around Angel's mouth? Did I miss him becoming a real boy at some point?
But Cordy came to a lower dimension to help Angel before, why couldn't she do that again? Personally, I was always unsatisfied with Cordelia's conclusion. She was on a different path, sure, but why can't we see that path? And why would it be impossible for that path to cross with Angel's once again?
Also, I LOVE Illyria--I love her even more than I do Fred. That is to say, she (it?) is the perfect extension of Fred's character. To me, the idea that Illyria and Fred could inhabit the same body is a dream come true. I mean, Fred with superpowers and a split personality? Awesomeness.
It isn't really Fred, though. The real Fred is completely gone, evaporated as it were, never to return as said during season 5. This is just Illyria playing with (or letting herself be played by) Fred's memories. As it should be.
It isn't really Fred, though. The real Fred is completely gone, evaporated as it were, never to return as said during season 5.

Or is she?
Yes a mad doctor said so. Obviously we should not question his credibility. Especially as he has now turned up in Lost.
Yes, its always unwise to question crazy people... unless you want to know the truth.
On the Cordelia angle, I'm not so sure why people want her back. I mean, I loved Cordy as well, but the way she went out was perfect.
[ edited by Bruce on 2009-05-14 19:48 ]

[ edited by Bruce on 2009-05-14 19:49 ]
Happy Angel is rarely fun, though. Bring on the pain!
Yes a mad doctor said so. Obviously we should not question his credibility. Especially as he has now turned up in Lost.

He's a mad doctor in Lost too. Hmmm, should we take his word there as well?
Her soul burned up at the time that Illyria took over her body; however, if Illyria has the ability to travel through time (or some such spin on that ability), could she not then travel to a time when Fred's soul did exist and bring it into the present? Also, if she retains all of Fred's memories, emotions, and so on, wouldn't she, in all essences, be Fred?
Bruce,it sounds like you want Cordy back for shipper reasons which would be the worst reason to bring any dead character back,IMO.

I think Cordy got the perfect send-off and really shouldn't be brought back.Some characters really should be allowed to stay passed on and not be brought back somehow or death will really lose all meaning in the verse.We've had so many returns already.So I'm hoping we don't see Cordy,Doyle,Lindsey brought back over here or Anya,Tara and Joyce in Buffy Season 8.

I've been wondering if what we see with Illyria is going to be based a little off of what Joss's plans for her were in season 6.
Buffyfantic, Cordelia returning would not be the same as Lindsey, Anya, Tara and Joyce returning: the latter characters died a human, natural death, whereas Cordelia's death was significantly mystical (mystical pregancy, mystical being, mystical coma). With Willow and Kennedy currently laughing off mystical deaths over in Season 8, would Cordelia's return really be that out of the question?
Her soul burned up at the time that Illyria took over her body

I promise I'm not trying to make a habit of this, but... or did it?
Daevid, I think you missed the most OMG-iest development in Buffy and Angel canon. Oh God. I did say the C-word. Whip me.
Buffyfantic, Cordelia returning would not be the same as Lindsey, Anya, Tara and Joyce returning: the latter characters died a human, natural death, whereas Cordelia's death was significantly mystical (mystical pregancy, mystical being, mystical coma). With Willow and Kennedy currently laughing off mystical deaths over in Season 8, would Cordelia's return really be that out of the question?
Buffy the Slayer Layer | March 28, 14:40 CET

Well,I can only speak for myself but even a mystical return would be a little much for me at this point with the many returns we've already had.It's just happening too often for my liking and causing death to lose meaning for me in the verse.Buffy,Angel,Spike,Darla,Lilah,Warren,Wes and Gunn have all come back in one way or the other.I realize that Lilah,Wes and Gunn have returned in new/altered forms but it still falls under deceased character comes back as far as I'm concerned.Then we have the Illyria/Fred mystery.I would rather have some characters who died stay that way especially when they had such great send-offs as Cordy did.If it hadn't been done so often already,I would be more open to it.

Plus some returns we've gotten have not worked for me or made the character's death lose some impact.The law of average is working against the 'bringing even more characters back' scenario,I think.

I would rather have new characters introduced or bringing back characters who haven't died which we've gotten.We've gotten Gwen,Groo and Nina for example.I think it would be interesting to have Kate back for example.

With that said,I'll give any storyline a chance and will eat crow if the story does end up working for me.It has happened plenty of times before.I'm sure Brian will do whatever he feels is best to serve the story he and Joss are telling.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2008-03-28 15:20 ]
Perseo, - Yeah, I've been playing catch-up this morning. Nutty stuff. I was going to wait for a THB of this series to come out, now I'm not sure.
Fred is easily my favorite character on the show... but I don't want her coming back. I cried, and I still cry every time I watch A Hole In The World. For me, her death was the most powerful experience while watching the show, and I'd hate to lose that. If she comes back, that whole event loses significance. I love Illyria as a character, and want to keep her in the game. I wouldn't mind some Illyria/Fred confusions and drama, but ultimately, I want only Illyria to remain. Because it hurts so good to watch/read.

if she retains all of Fred's memories, emotions, and so on, wouldn't she, in all essences, be Fred?

Buffy the Slayer Layer, I love this idea. There's a lot to "play" with there :-)

As for Cordy... She can stay dead too. I loved her character's arc, and I believe she ran the show when she was there. But she's gone. As Buffyfanatic has already stated, so many characters have returned already. Do we really need more?

Characters could come back in flashbacks. But let's keep moving into the future!

And since this post was initially about the cover (and we do want to talk about that, right?) I think it's pretty amazing. I'll say it's my favorite one yet! Though I really did like the Illyria/Wesley one for issue #5 too.
Well, speaking for myself, there are other characters that I'd like to return.

I wasn't happy with Lindsey's death, not one tiny iota. I just don't mention it very often because I usually get verbally jumped on when I do.

And while I'm at it, I might as well say that I could have done without Wesley's return. If there was ever a fictional character that deserved peace in death, it was him.

I'm not sure if this cover is my favorite one (yet), but I'm of the opinion that it's the most gorgeously detailed one so far.
This is definitely my favourite Angel cover thus far. I haven't started reading After the Fall yet, but I intend to. It's only just occurred to me how well suited for the comic medium Illyria is- very visually striking and larger than life. Really nice to see her and Angel feature in such a dynamic pose.
I looooove this cover. Angel as worn-yet-valiant-superhero-still-standing is perfection; anyone, supernatural or otherwise, with the (un)life(s) he's had should be showing some mileage by now (re: which, there's still so much tread left on that baby...). Also loving this series. Just ... love, all around. You've got some pretty awesome lobes, Brian, and you and your team are rocking this tale. (But dude! if only you could see it the way it plays in my head!)

And of course I want Fred if Joss wants to give us Fred. Torturing her with Wes is almost as good as torturing Wes with her. Alternately, Illyria is so bad-ass and exciting that, for me, it's all cake at this point. Or icing. Whichever. Hmm. Actually, it's cake ... I sometimes get tired of icing, and so far I only want more.

Tangent: Maybe it's a reflexive hangover from the gory glory days of TM that while everyone else is talking about who might be brought back in the rest of the book, I can't stop worrying who might get offed. Damn you, Tim Reaper!
Thanks, Brian. Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous!

As for content, who's coming back and what not, I don't think Fred can come back. She's gone, as in never existed. How do you bring back someone who didn't exist? I like Illyria and I like to see her struggling with Fred's memories, and I think there are possibiilities worth exploring there.

But wait... If Illyria has Fred's memories, Fred must have existed, which means... See big hole full of fuzzy logic opening beneath my feet...

Brian, I'm lovin' the ride no matter what, and will follow you and Joss wherever you take me.
MysticSlug, Fred definitely existed... please don't suck me into your fuzzy hole.

That didn't come out exactly right. ;)
But Fred's soul is gone. She's not coming back, unless there's something they didn't know.
Her soul is gone in the present day; that doesn't mean that Illyria is incapable of retrieving it. Alternatively, maybe Illyria is becoming Fred through Fred's memories, etc. My point is that, even through Fred's soul is currently burnt up, there are still opportunities of exploring her character in meaningful and exciting ways.
Fantastic art!

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