Whedonesque : Comments on 16018 : Sugarshock! in print.

Excellent! I'm definetely buying this. Sugarshock was great. I'm hoping very much for another installment or even an ongoing series.

randomfire | April 08, 04:45 CET

I haven't read Sugarshock! yet (MySpace scares me, I'm sorry, but it's true), so I can't wait for this. Amazon UK doesn't have a listing up for it yet though.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm always waiting on the TPBs, I'm behind on Buffy (this Issue 12 I keep hearing about everywhere had better be worth it! :) I'm blissfully spoiler free at the moment). And I haven't read any of the After the Fall at all yet. Better Days too... It's a shame, but my local comic shop is awkward to get to and ill-stocked, and I can't get them to order a series in for me, because I'm only here half of the time (away at uni during term time). I think the single-issue comics might be dying out a bit.

Just a bit of a straw poll for anyone reading this. What do you all thing about the Japanese manga-approach to comics? I don't mean the art style itself, but that manga generally has just one person working on it, sometimes two if the artist and the writer are different people, and they're mostly in black and white. So we get far more in terms of quantity, and far more quickly, because they don't have to go through the colouring process, and the time it takes to go back and fore between editors and letterers and the like.

MattK | April 08, 04:48 CET

DIABETIC NIGHTMARE!

Love it. Love the characters. Want more.

RhaegarTargaryen | April 08, 04:50 CET

Sugarshock was by far the worst thing Joss has ever written. But what can I say, I support the man! Also, I've noticed that if I don't like something Joss has done, I usually wind up either (a) eventually forcing/convincing myself to because, hey, it's Joss or (b) reading it 1000 times until I do like it.

patxshand | April 08, 05:06 CET

Whoo-hoo!

How many other webcomics have gone into print? Anybody know?

Anonymous1 | April 08, 05:15 CET

That's a pretty bleak outlook, patxshand. It is okay to not like something Joss has done. Stranger things have happened.

But hooray for physical Sugarshock!

Resolute | April 08, 05:16 CET

I was hoping they would publish this, but I kinda wish it would've been by itself. Bundled with a "not a viking" shirt, perhaps. ;)

hacksaway | April 08, 05:23 CET

Interesting. I knew that they had to wait a year, under their deal with MySpace, but I wasn't sure whether that meant a year from the first part or a year from the third part. Apparently, it was the first part.

ETA: Wait, my bad. In stores in September. So one year from the final part.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-04-08 02:43 ]

theonetruebix | April 08, 05:35 CET

Pre-order.

theonetruebix | April 08, 05:50 CET

Sugarshock was by far the worst thing Joss has ever written.

Titan A.E.? Alien Resurrection? Waterworld? Come on - you're not trying hard enough!

crossoverman | April 08, 05:59 CET

No, no. Sugarshock pretty much beats the badness of those movies over the head with its own unrivaled Bad Stick.

patxshand | April 08, 06:12 CET

Clearly patxshand is a Viking and objects to Dandelion's anti-Viking rhetoric.

theonetruebix | April 08, 06:15 CET

I agree, b!x...Sugarshock! is about the most awesome, totally random yet makes sense in the way only Joss can webcomic ever. Only a Viking could hate it.

I think that Waterworld is one of the worst things to have ever happened to movies. Except for Sofia Coppola in Godfather 3. Or maybe Daredevil. Or almost anything with Will Ferrell. Or George Lazenby as James Bond. Okay, really, it's about in the middle. But even if our 'verses didn't exist, Toy Story totally made up for it.

Yay Sugarshock! Although I've got to admit, I like Vikings a little; it's all the fault of the Muppets' "In the Navy" sketch.

BandofBuggered | April 08, 06:24 CET

I have the entire run printed out in a folder in my comics box. Now I can replace it with an actual book.

Now, I have to ask, what exactly do the critics of Sugarshock have against it? I've seen several people on forums who seemed violently opposed, but I've never gotten an actual reason out of them.

[ edited by randomfire on 2008-04-08 03:33 ]

randomfire | April 08, 06:31 CET

They're pro-Viking, randomfire. Violent opposition is all part of the Viking Agenda.

Sunfire | April 08, 06:39 CET

These people, pro-Vikings, also hate Brett Fahvera. I think they are all from Minnesota.

crazygolfa | April 08, 06:53 CET

How many other webcomics have gone into print? Anybody know?

Penny Arcade, PvP, PhDComics, and Achewood have all been published as print books. And they're all notable because their creators all started out as unknowns putting comics up on their websites, and now they each make their livings from the comics (well really through some combination of site ads and/or merchandise, speaking, etc-- but all centered on the comics). And Diesel Sweeties is actually syndicated in some print newspapers nowadays. Pibgorn's been kind of all over the map.

Sunfire | April 08, 07:26 CET

Randomfire: It just seems like diarrhea of ideas. It lacks the quirk of Buffy, Angel, and Firefly because its just an explosion of *too much*. The whole thing really--IMO--stinks of trying too hard. None of the jokes were really funny at all, and the plot line made little to no sense. Viking bit is worth a spare chuckle or so, but I like Joss when he's writing characters, not walking and talking punch lines waiting to happen.

Might I like it after a third or fourth read? Stranger things have happened. I'm thankful for the story because, hey, it's more free than Waffle Fries at Chick-a-Filet, but I just wasn't entertaing by it in the slightest.

patxshand | April 08, 07:33 CET

I think, perhaps, what you might be missing on this patxshand, is that this isn't supposed to be of the level of Buffy, Angel, or Firefly. It pretty much was just Joss kicking back, period, without worrying about any real baggage, be it the baggage of heavy narrative or the baggage of metaphor.

It's weird, because I don't get the "trying too hard" vibe at all. What I get is really just "haha whee" without worrying about what it means.

theonetruebix | April 08, 07:41 CET

Yes, that was how it read to me too. I think it was kind of the opposite of trying too hard. To me it seemed joyfully spastic and happily unrestrained. Pure fun, except for the heartbreaking musical part. Which was also a joke, so even then.

But yeah, not everybody's thing.

Sunfire | April 08, 07:50 CET

That's not really the reason, Bix. I'm not expecting Buffy level stuff. The comparison I'm about to make might not be valid, because I'm not sure if you're reading both of these books, but if not I think you'll get the idea. Brian Lynch is writing both "Angel" and "Everybody's Dead" at the moment. "Angel" is serious, dark, and the Buffy-level-stuff we're talking about. "Everybody's Dead" is kicking back, haa whee, comedic, and campy fun. I like "Everybody's Dead" quite a bit... because it's good. For me "Sugar Shock" didn't work basically because I just didn't find it funny.

[ edited by patxshand on 2008-04-08 05:03 ]

patxshand | April 08, 07:55 CET

To me, it was like Bill&Ted meet Pippi Longstocking with some other randomness thrown in. Maybe it's Joan Jett on a *lot* of Pixie Stix.
It's total frivolity, nothing deep, but even so...it's higher caliber than most pure fun things.

I think even the name Sugarshock suggests that it's just Joss on a sugarhigh with a pencil in his hand. Which is yeah, as Sunfire put it, "joyfully spastic and happily unrestrained."

As with everything, YMMV...Viking or otherwise. I found it funny because I love the music scene but still make fun of it. Sugarshock spoke to me in that way.

BandofBuggered | April 08, 08:00 CET

I just didn't find it funny.

And don't get me wrong, I do actually accept the premise that sometimes things just don't work for people. Heh.

theonetruebix | April 08, 08:19 CET

Talk about varying mileage, I thought Sugarshock was pound-for-pound the funniest thing Joss has ever written and the funniest thing I saw/read in 2007 (pound-for-pound, I'm saying, you know: laughs per minute).

jam2 | April 08, 10:07 CET

Sugarshock is Joss goes punk. The story is highly kinetic and glorious. Oh and Lincoln for the win.

And the item in question is now listed at the Dark Horse site so I've changed the URL to that site (I didn't want anyone getting spoiled for Buffy).

Simon | April 08, 10:25 CET

It was random and hilarious and randomly hilarious. It was "haa whee" exactly, bix. I loved it.

crossoverman | April 08, 10:29 CET

I thought Sugarshock was a verbal, image-fic, surreal plot bunny that Joss turned into a not-so-coherent equivalent of a short movie. Not so much with the meaning, much more with the crack joy of having kerrazy characters in a kerrazier story. I found it extremely funny and non-sensical, especially BECAUSE it was non-sensical. I'll love to have it.

Perseo | April 08, 11:32 CET

Only comic I've ever really enjoyed. Yes, including Buffy season 8 and Those Left Behind. Comics have never really sat right with me, it's something about the pacing that just bugs me I think. But Sugarshock was just a head above everyone else, for some reason the pacing worked... And also, Dandelion is totally awesome. I might even pick this up...

Djungelurban | April 08, 12:49 CET

Oh lawks, it was positively anti-meaning, it actually sucked meaning out of any room it appeared in. Utterly meaningless. S'kinda the point I reckon. Humour is as subjective as one of the most subjective things, like, ever ! though and if a humorous comic isn't funny to you then there's not a lot's gonna save it, especially one as gloriously, magnificently, intentionally daffy as this one. It's kind of like a family friendly 'Crank' or '24' minus the pro-torture propaganda - it's all about momentum.

Indeed, the only real lesson I took from 'Sugarshock' was "Never trust a Viking". Seriously, vikings are big silly poopy-mcdoopies. Not one of those froods has any idea where their towel is. Hoopy they ain't.

OK, the other lesson was that Joss is hi-larious. So two lessons.

And so is Fabio Moon, so maybe three lessons.

Also, one day I will marry L'Lhidra and in this way we will achieve victory. So four, absolute tops ...

I'll go out, come back in and start again ...

Saje | April 08, 13:09 CET

"poopy-mcdoopies", Saje? If I weren't laughing my head off, I'd have to send the boys to do some pilaging. Thems fightin' words...(Who am I kidding?) :)

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-04-08 10:23 ]

MysticSlug | April 08, 13:22 CET

Well, given how much you guys viked up around my neck of the woods, I may be part poopy-mcdoopy myself so bring it on !

;-)

Saje | April 08, 13:33 CET

BandofBuggered: "Only a Viking could hate it."

Hey, now, I'm a Viking, and I totally resent that.

If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge*?

*my underlining for emphasis

A Viking can only stand so much and then we... well, I guess we invade and take over your monasteries and carve runes on your rocks... so watch out.

I loved Sugar~~shack~~shock - though I've permanently embossed into my brain the mistaken idea that it is called Sugarshack, and I cannot expunge it for love nor money.

Sugar~~shack~~shock brang in the whee and made with the ha. And Sugar~~shack~~shock had some of the randomly best Joss lines ever:

"Kissy th' face!"
"The Greatest Story Ever Blogged."
"How dare you dare to dare that?"
"This is Flenders. The rules are different. Flenders rules."
"Squirrels have NO SOULS!"
"Why are you talking in spurts?"
"I would never have cheated on whozis over there."
"BISECT!"

And one of my personal favorites, "Yeppity-sir."

(Just for all y'alls ~~envy~~enjoyment, I found this abso-tootly smashing photo of Joss in his impromptu Fabio Moon/Dandelion tee on Fabio's blog... it probably was already posted long ago, so sorry if I'm repeatin' on you. ; > )

I loved the surreal anarchy of ~~What-ever-the-hell-it-was-called~~Sugarshock.

QuoterGal | April 08, 13:53 CET

"FATAL STAB* !"

Hah, Vike that, yo ! Reckon we've shown the inherent superiority of non-vikings pretty handily there.

* no Vikings were harmed during this demonstration.

Saje | April 08, 14:09 CET

*but much drinking was done by all afterwards.

Is anyone else impressed by the fact that the paperclip was invented by a Norwegian? (Talk about invasion... and the world never saw it coming.)

MysticSlug | April 08, 14:13 CET

* which often leads to its own kind of harm the morning after ;-).

Actually MysticSlug, I hate to burst the Norwegian bubble but it's truer to say Johan Vaaler invented a paperclip rather than the one we know today. Details. It's apparently a very widely held view in Norway, even appearing in dictionaries etc. Nice demonstration of how these things spread ;).

(it's a bit like me claiming that John Logie-Baird invented the TV - he did, just not anything we'd consider a TV today and in fact his design was a bit of a dead end)

Saje | April 08, 14:31 CET

Sugarshock is HI-larious. Can't wait to have my very own copy.

missmuffet | April 08, 16:46 CET

Yes, well, Saje, this was a very nice article about patenting, not necessarily about inventing, which as anyone who works in research knows, are two different things. Also, history itself tends to come in different versions, depending on the perspective.

But read a little further down and you will understand why you should never mess with any Viking about their paperclips.

MysticSlug | April 08, 16:49 CET

Well, when he applied for his patent the paperclips we all use today (the so-called "gem" design) were already being sold and used and had been for some years - just not in Norway - so the evidence seems to point towards others and not Vaaler as inventors MysticSlug (maybe he invented it 6+ years before trying to patent it or sell it in any way but that seems unlikely - why sit on it for that long when every day brought the risk of someone beating him to it and preventing him from making a potential fortune ?). I do understand though, national myths are precious and hard to disabuse yourself of (we Brits have plenty that we believe that either aren't true or are only partly true - the "little boats" and their role in the evacuation of Dunkirk, for instance).

History, BTW, is simply what actually happened. It's absolutely true though that different people have different interpretations of history and that, in the absence of plentiful evidence, the actual truth can be very difficult or even impossible to get at, couldn't agree more ;).

(none of which takes anything away from Norway's all too real and truly heroic resistance efforts during the German occupation in WWII, as partly symbolised by the wearing of paperclips - Vikings indeed ;)

Saje | April 08, 17:27 CET

More or less what I said.

MysticSlug | April 08, 17:37 CET

Ah, sorry I misunderstood (thought you were still claiming Vaaler invented the paperclip when he clearly didn't ;).

Bloody text only media, it's a veritable minefield ;-).

Saje | April 08, 17:40 CET

Quotergal, don't forget "I love you." That was the first thing that made me laugh out loud.
Though I guess it's not very funny out of context. :)

jcs | April 08, 18:03 CET

Now that the origin of the paper clip has finally been a point of argument, clarification, fact-checking, and agreement on the site, what is left to discuss? I say we're about done here.

Sunfire | April 08, 18:23 CET

Where do you go after solving paperclips ? I mean, world peace would feel like a bit of an anti-climax.

This must be what Buffy felt like after being pulled out of heaven.

Saje | April 08, 18:27 CET

Well, we could clear up that non-discussion about Spike panties and Darth Potato. Or discuss the marketability of the Buffy Ouija board vs ... say, the Rubic's Cube Smasher (just an example), but that would be another thread.

MysticSlug | April 08, 19:42 CET

Ah, Sugarshock! is gloriously daffy.

UnpluggedCrazy | April 08, 20:20 CET

Thrilling excitement!

Craig Oxbrow | April 08, 20:53 CET

I don't think everything all solved like you guys are claiming when I woke up this morning to find myself fatally STABBED.

It totally screwed up my plans for today, and those runes don't carve themselves.

Sheeesh.

Undskyld mig!,
- Fatally STABBED Viking in WeHo, now with a Chip on Her Shoulder

QuoterGal | April 08, 21:25 CET

People who don't like Sugarshock probably ALSO don't like Restless....

I, personally, adore SugarShock and find myself quoting it often.

Kiss'y thy face!
Tabz

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 08, 21:31 CET

Squirrels have no souls.

hacksaway | April 08, 21:34 CET

I wouldn't worry about it, QuoterGal. We live on in the pronoun system.

But you could try Windex. I hear that cures everything, maybe even a fatal stabbing by a mad xxxxxman.

MysticSlug | April 08, 21:56 CET

People who don't like Sugarshock probably ALSO don't like Restless....

Those fiends! I suppose some people have an inexplicable need for coherence and sanity. I pity them.

randomfire | April 08, 23:27 CET

I love this thread. :)

korkster | April 09, 00:49 CET

This thread does do good for the soul!

My sister refused to watch Restless, though it took me a couple of years to convince her to watch BtVS at all...then again, she's very blonde.
VIKING!

"Dude, Gwar fell on your ship." And to Valhalla (I don't feel like looking up the spelling) you go. Except for soulless Viking squirrels.

I seriously think that comic was the best thing to ever happen to MySpace. Or the world.

****Why did "Yo-Ho Yo-Ho A Pirate's Life For Me" get stuck in my head?****

BandofBuggered | April 09, 02:25 CET

It's all fun and games 'til somebody fatally STABS a Viking.

QuoterGal | April 09, 02:30 CET

...with a paperclip?

Dude, don't worry! Odin will smite whomever it was. Me, I just secretly wish ill upon all Vikings. No fatal stabbings to atone for. Just ritualistically setting y'alls hair on fire, then playing the world's saddest song in the warm glow of the flame. Really, it's quite pretty.

BandofBuggered | April 09, 02:34 CET

Well, you Viked first QG ! My FATAL STAB was an entirely proportionate response, more like pre-emptive self-defence really. No court in the land would convict me (unless it was Viking land - ptooey).

And sure, it was FATAL and sure, it was STAB but there was a great deal of (admittedly implicit) affection in the doing of it. It was like one of those friendly horrendous broadsword killings that we read about in the history books. OK, there was maiming, but people were happy then.

[ edited by Saje on 2008-04-08 23:37 ]

Saje | April 09, 02:37 CET

Beg to differ. Saje struck first. He called us "poopy-mcdoopies". *walks in circle, doubled over with laughter

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-04-09 00:20 ]

MysticSlug | April 09, 02:41 CET

Trust a Viking not to know that "poopy-mcdoopy" actually means ... err ... "Like a complete non-Viking" ! It's totally an expression of endearment like a playful beheading or a shower of arrows so great in number they seem as the darkening of night or a box of chocolates.

See, I try to treat you varmints like normal non- (or at least ex-) Vikers and what thanks do I get ? Criticised for a little thing like FATALly STABbing someone. Psheesh and Pfft and Pxxasperate. Oh and Ptsk too.

Saje | April 09, 02:52 CET

First there was a lot of loose anti-Viking talk being thrown around, and then there was a pile-on, and I defended my sacred Viking honor with some Shakespeare and some verbal runic threatening, and then next thing I know, I wake up deader than a dead Viking thing, killed by a hot-headed member of Clan Poopy-McDoopy, throwing his sporran around and being all STABBY.

You guys smite for the least little thing around here.

QuoterGal | April 09, 02:56 CET

Personally, i'm constantly teetering on the edge of a smite overload.

It can be awkward with friends and family (sorry Aunt Gertrude) but, upside, I get very few parking tickets.

Saje | April 09, 03:03 CET

It's all good. I got enough Windex for everyone!

MysticSlug | April 09, 03:06 CET

Ah Windex, is there nothing it can't do ? ;)

Saje | April 09, 03:08 CET

Well, it can't improve the taste of lima beans.

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-04-09 01:11 ]

MysticSlug | April 09, 03:18 CET

Does anyone want yucky chips?

hacksaway | April 09, 03:48 CET

"Dude, Gwar fell on your ship."

Car.

theonetruebix | April 09, 04:40 CET

Careful with attributing too much meaning to the British surnames. Did y'all see that genetic study that showed that people in the British isles are genetically geographically uniform, and majority some pre-Celtic, pre-Teutonic people, perhaps related to the Basque?

My surname is Saxon, but is probably Ellis Island-phony, since my adopted father's family only vaguely remembers being maybe Russian. And I'm adopted, and all I've got is some sheets of paper that say I'm Irish and American Indian. And what does Irish mean? Probably Basque.

Anyway, I can't believe Joss meant Dandelion's Viking fixation to be so geneological or test-tube-y. Must be some kind of metaphor. I'm thinking nobody has to be, and everybody can be Viking if they want.

dreamlogic | April 09, 05:48 CET

B!x, I know it's a car that Gwar fell on. But Vikings don't drive cars. They have those ships--galley-type things--with all the oars.
Hey! If QuoterGal can pervert Shakespeare's Shylock monologue, surely I can mess around a little with Mr. Whedon's words. Especially since Joss himself picked on Shylock.

On the other hand, Shylock wasn't a Viking.

I agree with dreamlogic's ...logic. I think that Viking is more of a state of mind than a geneological thing. Especially since I'm pretty sure that Leif Erikson invaded, like, every continent. Surely all of us are his descendents in some way.

I don't identify with Vikings, which is why I like Dandelion. Then again, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay...

BandofBuggered | April 09, 08:54 CET

"Lord, deliver us from the fury of the Northmen. But especially, Lord, from their mirth" ( Harrison, The Hammer and the Cross)

jpr | April 09, 11:48 CET

Hey, jpr! *squirt*

MysticSlug | April 09, 12:21 CET

Careful with attributing too much meaning to the British surnames. Did y'all see that genetic study that showed that people in the British isles are genetically geographically uniform, and majority some pre-Celtic, pre-Teutonic people, perhaps related to the Basque?

D'ya mean the 'mcdoopy' dl ? ;-) Celtic has never really been a genetic category, it's more a cultural identifier (and surnames reflect that relatively well, at least in patrilineal societies) but by historical coincidence and geography that cultural identifier has stuck to some places in the British Isles and not others. Places like Wales and (especially) Scotland have a longer uninterrupted line from those times to now (because Scotland is too bloody ~~cold, wet and mountainous~~ hard for the Romans to have really bothered with ;). Those places have far fewer post-Celtic influences in every way (at least partly of course because they had their own separate languages - hence 'Mac' or 'Mc' for "son of").

Totally true though, most native Britons (from whichever of the home nations) are, genetically at least, pretty similar to each other and pre-Roman Britons but the thing is, culturally "pre-Roman" is basically Celtic which means we all actually share "Celtic ancestry" genetically.

(the original Scots came from Ireland and yep, Ireland was possibly populated by folk from the Basque region. Mongrels the lot of us ;)

ETA: I have a book about it called 'The Origins of the British' but it's still sitting on the TBR pile. Might be time to (literally ;) dust it off.

ETAA: Also worth pointing out that two populations that are statistically indistinguishable from each other on a genetic level may still have fairly apparent outward differences. So if there was a gene for e.g. "fiery temper", being just one data point it might well be lost in the statistical shuffle whereas culturally, it may have a very clear effect (just an example BTW, i've no idea if there's any truth to the belief about Celtic temperament).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-04-09 14:00 ]

Saje | April 09, 15:19 CET

Well, I'll vouch for it. Don't think we ever conquered you lot. The Danelaw came about after the Romans buggered off, in the midst of the Anglo-Saxon take-all. (Loosely presented there.) Now the Celts, being so fierce and all -no point in trying to subjugate you. Much easier to just intermingle and share the gene pool, hence the origins of the dark-haired Vikings, or so the story goes.

Besides, you FATALly STABbed QG...

MysticSlug | April 09, 17:26 CET

I think this probably incorporates the study I was talking about. The reference to the Basque was because they're probably also a left-over group of Ice Age people, less related to the later historic-period invaders than most.

My hair is reddish and I'm feeling Ice Age today. I reserve the right to be Viking tomorrow.

dreamlogic | April 09, 18:42 CET

It's amazing to listen to "listen" to Scottish people rave on about history. We don't have that burden in the US. :)

(dreamlogic, you're an exception)

korkster | April 09, 19:08 CET

How many times a day can someone learn about genetics and genealogy and laugh hysterically? You guys are so cool. ;)

deepgirl187 | April 09, 19:14 CET

Ah, cheers dreamlogic. OK, 12,000 years ago was definitely pre-Celtic, i'll give you that ;). Touches on the cultural origins of Celtishness too - just read quite an amusing travelogue (by a budding poet of all things, a Manxman) that explored Celticity and I think he mentions in there about how it didn't really exist until the 18th century (as a label that is).

My beard comes in ginger BTW, so at least that part of me is from 8-10,000 years ago ;).

(still, depending on how they measure it, 80% is pretty low. By one measure we share 98% ish of our genes with chimps after all - guess I can live with sharing 80% with the English ;-)

Besides, you FATALly STABbed QG...

Exactly MysticSlug, a very recent FATAL STABbing to our credit has to count for something.

(re: the Romans/Danes/Anglo-Saxons/Normans, I always have this image of the "Invade Scotland Committee" sitting around debating the relative merits:

Prospective Conqueror 1: So what do they have there then ?
Prospective Conqueror 2: Well, it rains a lot...
PC1: Uh huh, what else.
PC2: Um ... they have these kind of prickly flowers ...
PC1: Ooh, roses ? I love roses, that'd make it worth wh-
PC2: No, not roses, these are prickly but kind of, well ... ugly.
PC1: OK, what else, nice food maybe ?
PC2: Haggis.
PC1: Go on then, what's that ?
PC2: *whispers*
PC1: Fuck off.
PC2: Seriously.
PC1: ... and then they ... ? In the stomach ?
PC2: Yep.
PC1: ... OK, plan B, what about that bit sticking out of England, looks kinda flat, Nor- something ?

;-)

Saje | April 09, 19:22 CET

Yes, haggis is of the truly off-putting, but then there was all that Scotch whiskey at the meeting and they voted to invade.

I woke up this morning still fatally STABBED but feeling better, so I will graciously forgive Stabby McStabb this once. Us Vikings is nothing if not noble.

QuoterGal | April 09, 19:41 CET

Particularly when drunk.

Well, that explains everything, Saje. Makes perfectly good sense why the Norwegian faction left most the invading to the Danish hoard. When it isn't looking like the inside of a badly defrosted freezer up here, it's generally raining or threatening to. We also have a stickly little plant that has a pesky passion for growing amongst the strawberries and then there's our version of haggis - lungemos (mashed lung to you nonvikinglinguals). You have no idea what you're missing!

Why invade? We got it all here. Much better to go visit, trade some, drink some, intermingle the gene pools... Either that or they were too hung-over and forgot it was invasion Tuesday.

Now, as to history itself, I've always had a fascination for the Beaker People. Would love to know what's up with that cup at their feet.

MysticSlug | April 10, 01:07 CET

I haven't read all the comments yet but I finally feel like I can comment on a thread about comics without risking having my virtual head lopped off by a virtual Viking ax.
Because Djungelurban said exactly what I wanted to say but didn't quite have the nerve, thus extending his/her head for the chopping, before I extend my own .....

Only comic I've ever really enjoyed. Yes, including Buffy season 8 and Those Left Behind. Comics have never really sat right with me ....

(welcome, Djungelurban, you just won "ritual sacrifice of the week".) ;_)

So that out of the way, I found Sugarshock! to be flat out hilarious, laugh-out-loud stuff.
Which is kind of an illustration of my point of view about comics, in that they just don't work for me as something to be taken seriously. And for the funny, they usually aren't (except "single panel" newspaper strips like Doonesbury or Dilbert).

(Ritual sacrifice aside, I'm still running for cover). And last word, I LovedLovedLoved Sugarshock! :-)

Shey | April 10, 12:40 CET

"Press 2 for Djungelurban or say 'Dj-' ... OK, just press 2" ;-).

Well, the "taken seriously" thing is just old-fashioned snobbishness based on pre-conceptions about the medium, no need to run for cover Shey, comics fans are long used to it and we won't hold it against you ;). Over on the .org there's more than one thread recommending great comics (few featuring super-heroes or the standard things you might associate with comics) - have a look, you just never know ;).

(no-one says they can't take film seriously because "Meet the Spartans" is unmitigated rubbish - the comics medium is as broad as film in its subject matter, art styles, tone, writing etc.)

Re: funny, well, again, it sounds like you don't read many comics so I guess you're ... inadequately equipped (?) to judge ;). 'Scott Pilgrim' for instance makes me laugh out loud (FWIW, I think there're definite similarities in feel between Pilgrim and 'Sugarshock') and 'Spike: Shadow Puppets', as well as featuring Blondie Bear himself, was also at times hilarious (it's much more of a funny 'funny-book' than 'Spike: Asylum'). Bought both issues of "Everybody's Dead" by Mr Brian Lynch Esq. but I haven't read them yet. I'd bet five quid blind that i'll laugh at least once in the reading though ;).

(all that said, it's horses/courses, they're not for everyone in the same way that not everyone likes paintings or classical music or poetry or slapstick comedy or crunchy peanut butter. Not a bad thing, just a pity you're missing out IMO ;)

Saje | April 10, 13:48 CET

Watchman made me cry and skip work to read it. That might just mean I'm neurotic, but I tend to think it was the effective and powerful writing and art.

Maybe Joss could write The Saddest Comic in the World for us...

QuoterGal | April 10, 20:35 CET

Saje, you forgot to take your own advice and "Press 2 for Djungelurban, or just say DJ" (To whom I already feel I owe an apology :_)

I wasn't going to get sucked into this but ....

Well, the "taken seriously" thing is just old-fashioned snobbishness based on pre-conceptions about the medium, no need to run for cover Shey, comics fans are long used to it and we won't hold it against you ;).

Spoken like a true Libra, but still .... I answer your charge of "snobbishness" with a counter of "condesending". I ceretainly have tried to get into the Buffy comics, and made every effort to put aside any "pre-conceptions", because .... well, Joss, how could I not give it a chance?

Sorry, but not even Joss has been able to bring me into this particular fold. With the exception of Sugarshock!, because it's meant to be not only fully but funny in an outrageous, off-the-wall manner for which IMO comics are well suited.

But BtS ended for me when season 7 ended. You have Big Purp in your corner and although I know I'm not the only one in the "just can't take it seriously" camp, I'd think that would be enough to quell the defensiveness.
If Joss himself can't convert me (serious content wise), it obviously aint gonna happen.

I'm glad that so many fams are enjoying it, but those of us who don't, are not automatically snobs or the even worse charge, that we "just don't get it".
I get it, I just don't appreciate it.

Still friends? Scotland is by all accounts a beautiful country and your shortbread almost makes up for the hagis. (sp) ;-)

Shey | April 11, 06:34 CET

Honestly, I bet you'd like Haggis if you tried it, pretty much every meat-eater i've introduced it to has (once they get over the ingredients ;). You can get veggie ones too but I can't vouch for those.

Clearly I don't mind if you don't like the Buffy comic Shey, nobody likes everything, that's part of what makes it worthwhile to even talk to other people, but I can't think of a single other entire medium that folk are allowed to just write off and it be absolutely fine to do so.

Imagine if you'd said "I just can't take films seriously" or "Something about novels just never really sat right with me, I don't think much of them" ? Wouldn't you expect people to take issue with that ? Maybe to suggest that, given the huge range of different types of things included in "films" or "novels", it might perhaps be the case that you were judging them on too little information ?

Here're some comics/graphic novels/whatever ( ;) that many fans consider to be among the best the medium has to offer. Have you tried any of these titles ? Cos if so i'd be interested to hear what you thought of them.

'Blankets'
'Maus'
'Watchmen'
'Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth'
'Palestine'
'Persepolis'
'V for Vendetta'
'A Contract with God'

Or maybe you've only actually tried one particular type of comic (and those in small number) - which, to me, is a bit like only watching 'torture porn' and then deciding you don't like the entire medium of film.

As to "snobbishness", I almost edited it a couple of times but I just couldn't work out what else to put in its place. I guess it's natural you should see it as an attack on your entire character but I genuinely meant it just as an attitude in this particular instance (one which, as I say, really is very widespread and unsurprising to a comics reader). Maybe I was condescending but I tried to keep the tone fairly light so as not to come across as defensive. That clearly went well ;).

As a general point BTW, I think there's a tendency to assume someone is outraged or offended because they've gone to the trouble of posting - well, I type OK so posting's not much to me, I do it over a lot of things I don't feel at all defensive or upset about i.e. as much to make observations as to make points.

(and my attitude to your good self hasn't changed in the slightest BTW - nobody's perfect, me least of all ;-)

Saje | April 11, 14:01 CET

Dear comic obsessed Saje, ;-) There already are two few hours in the day to pursue my many and varied interests, so forgive me if I don't jump on the "OK, I'll give it another try" bandwagon.

The way I look at it is that if Joss himself couldn't get me interested in a continuation of BtS in this format, nothing could. And, you aren't the first to give it a very serious try. But as I said, glad so many fans are enjoying it.

As for the Haggis, I think maybe not, even the veggie ones(I am a vegetarian). Not that I'm likely to ever have the opportunity.

Besides, we have something equally disgusting in Hawaii, it's called Poi. Made from Taro root, it looks like mud and tastes much worse. Few non-Native Hawaiians can get it down.

So cheers for "that's what makes the world .... um, really diverse".

Shey | April 11, 15:19 CET

Ah well, pity, you're missing out ('Maus' for instance brought the Holocaust home to me in a way no history lesson ever could and 'V for Vendetta' is as politically and morally complex as any civics lesson or ethics debate) but if you can live with it, i'll somehow find a way ;-). I will just say though, Joss is a good comics writer but he's very far from the best out there IMO and heeuuuge fan of his and the show as I am, i've read many, many comics that are better than Buffy "season 8".

(I was gonna ask what comics you had read but i'm thinking yer a lost cause ;-)

Still, as you say, here's to the differences, big and small ;).

Saje | April 11, 16:28 CET

I know that last post is for Shey, but it made me so tempted to change my screen name to "lost cause". That must mean something. ;-)

newcj | April 11, 16:39 CET

Or 'lost cause actual'. It's the Next Big Thing ;).

Saje | April 11, 16:57 CET

Or 'lost cause actual'. It's the Next Big Thing ;).
Saje | April 11, 13:57 CET

Arrrg, you just beat me to that one.

Shey | April 11, 17:40 CET

Quicker than the human eye, me and Hong-Kong Phooey both ;-).

Saje | April 11, 18:16 CET

From page load to quip post in 0.0007 seconds flat.

Sunfire | April 11, 18:42 CET

fan-riffic !

;-)

Saje | April 11, 19:34 CET

This reminds me.... oh how I hope that we are getting another Sugarshock installment soon... please oh pretty please without a viking on the top...

Hee | April 13, 04:30 CET

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April 08 2008