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April 23 2008

Amber Benson and Adam Busch in "viral" videos. Amber Benson and Adam Busch appear in some satiric political videos. Both are in the first one; Mr. Busch is also in the second and third.

[ edited by Shapenew on 2008-04-23 16:56 ]

[ edited by zeitgeist -Please use periods at the ends of link titles, folks. Thanks!- on 2008-04-23 17:00 ]

Warren's a ghost in a funny political video!! Ghosts can't vote...can they? Hmm.

[ edited by CaffeinatedSquint on 2008-04-23 17:01 ]
Glad to see it!
I like Amber Benson. I like Adam Busch.

Obama? Not so much. He's too much of a socialist for my tastes.
Not Socialist enough for mine. Diff'rent strokes. :vp
(Disclaimer: not an American, and I get most of my American political "news" from the Daily Show/Colbert Report)

I know very little about the partisan issues that effect the candidates, I honestly have no view on the Republican vs. Democrat ideals. That being said, I'd personally prefer someone who had been editor of the Harvard Law Review and seems generally intelligent (Obama) than a man who's unclear on whether contraception can prevent the spread of HIV (McCain). Honestly, regardless of party, don't you want the person running the country to be the most intelligent person you can get for the job?

Speaking from within my own country, I'd much rather a party in power that I don't fully agree with, but is nevertheless run competently and intelligently, than a party I do agree with that has bad leadership.

*shrugs* just my 2 cents, as it were.
These ads were a bit too "knowing" if you know what I mean. Not as effective as they'd like to think.
Oh god. It's only April and already I feel despair.
Those ads are OK, the first one especially - like all "message" virals they are maybe slightly too pleased with themselves though, agreed.

Honestly, regardless of party, don't you want the person running the country to be the most intelligent person you can get for the job?

Exactly MattK. Think it was last week on 'The Daily Show' when Obama was accused of elitism, Jon Stewart put it best as usual saying (roughly) "Doesn't 'elite' mean good ? Isn't that what we want from a President ?". Spot on ;).

("average Joe appeal" hasn't worked all that brilliantly over the last 7 years as far as this semi-interested foreigner can tell)
Saje:
("average Joe appeal" hasn't worked all that brilliantly over the last 7 years as far as this semi-interested foreigner can tell)

This very interested non-foreigner agrees with you and then some...
Ditto.

Hope is a bad thing when he dumps Buffy.

In my case, I'd rather have Faith.
I wasn't crazy about the ads, since I also found them too self conscious. Then again, I am a little turned off by Obama so that may be part of it. I'll still vote for him over McCain without hesitation, but I'm seeing Obama differently than a lot of people seem to.
Ugh. I'm an American and I'm already getting the desire to be Chinese. To me, the elections are an embarrassment to our country. Instead of doing what one should do to support their country, they're playing popularity contests. Eek.

As far as the "smart" thing, from my Bones knowledge, I'd argue that they're are two types of smarts that'd be useful in the White House:

1) Book smarts- knowing the numbers, statistics, all the nitty-gritty needed in running a country properly.

2) People smarts- knowing who you can trust, how to relate to the people you represent, and truly listening to their needs on what the priorities should be as a nation.

The "ideal" President, in my mind, may not have #1 but MUST have #2- they gotta know the people with "book smarts" to manage properly.
Surely the ideal President would have both ? Again, i'll point out that "man of the people" got you where you are today, personally i'd be inclined to try a different tack, YMMV ;). To be honest, I don't think you get to be senator and/or potentially running for PotUS without knowing who to trust and being able to relate to people (or convince them you are anyway ;), that's like politics 101 IMO. Listening to the people ? Not a skill to me so much as a personal choice which anyone can make.

The thing about Obama IMO is, either he's genuine about the whole end to divisive partisan games playing thing OR he's playing the game like a consummate professional. If the former he's probably a good man and hopefully worldly enough to actually accomplish things, if the latter he's only about as cynical as yer average politician (which includes, from the little i've seen of her on the stump, Hillary Clinton). Either way I just don't see much lost (if you're a Democrat ;).

The great thing is, McCain seems like a fairly smart, conscientious guy of broadly good intentions too (though I disagree with pretty much every policy of his that I know of) so for the world at large I don't think any of them are terrible choices.
The trouble is, people without "book smarts" sometimes mistake a person who's just a good talker as a person who has "book smarts".

One of the things that impressed me about Obama was how he's solicited advice from Larry Lessig, who is a very bright, sane, guy in the technology field. Many other politicians seem to take their advice from corporate interests and lobbyists, whilst not understanding the issue themselves, and this is how you end up with something like the "net neutrality" debacle that's going on at the moment.
Obama? Not so much. He's too much of a socialist for my tastes.

We have never had a president who was even remotely socialist in my lifetime, or anyone else's for that matter. Considering how disastrous things have gotten with health care, job loss, the war in Iraq, and global warming, maybe we ought to move away from the same old corrupt leaders trying to line (their) corporate pockets. I don't think Obama is the cure-all for everything, and as a businessperson, he is FAR from socialist, but he isn't part of the Bush cabal. That in itself is an improvement.

Adam and Amber are to be credited with not giving up the good fight.
One of the co-directors for these is Rider Strong of Boy Meets World fame. Ahh, my first fandom. ;)
Obama? Not so much. He's too much of a socialist for my tastes.
I have a feeling you don't know what socialism actually stands for, or what Obama stands for for that matter.

Hope is a bad thing when he dumps Buffy.
In my case, I'd rather have Faith.

I just hope Clinton doesn't trick people into having faith in her
Nebula1400: "We have never had a president who was even remotely socialist in my lifetime..."


That's a damn fact. We might want to look into it - the rich-running-most-of-it-all-and-getting-richer-on-our-dime model we have been following for quite some time has been a total bust for the rest of us. Sadly, there's just enough of us who clamor to climb high enough to get a place at the trough, which keeps them voting against our interests every frakkin' time. It's astonishing how we can be repeatedly induced to vote for protections and candidacies and measures designed by the rich to benefit the even richer.

And I'm so tired of Fake-Man-of-the-People down homesy acts I could spit - but many of us fall for it, and clamor to have beers with them - like that'll ever happen - and remember them as "great communicators" (for instance) when they can't even keep their facts straight for two minutes.

Bitter? You betcha.

I try to have hope - and I am an Obama supporter, thus "betraying my vagina" as Samantha Bee said last night on The Daily Show - but I have spent too many years watching the electorate dumbing down and frankly fear for this country's sanity and long-term health.

However, I thought these ads were funny and effective, and any "knowingness" or "self-consciousness" not a bar to their being effective... on the contrary. Props to Amber and Adam for doing this.

Awww, I want to have hope. I also fear that even if we do manage to elect Obama that it'll be another Florida-chad-style debacle again... oh gods, it is only April, isn't it?

"Ah, that fake man of the people. He isn't even smart." - Mike (Macauley) Connor, The Philadelphia Story
fortunateizzi, Rider Strong (the best friend) & the older brother are both in the videos. You can actually see them interact at the "workplace" in vid 2.

Shapenew, it took me THIS LONG (holds up hands) to figure out your tag line. I finally got it when VigilanteSidekick commented on it. Thanks. Made me chuckle. :)
After watching it a few more times, it seems very much aimed toward people who are already Obama supporters. I don't think it's going to be effective in convincing anyone to support him who doesn't already. But that may be the point-- to wryly encourage people who are already onboard but who are getting static about it from people around them.
Joins QuoterGal in line. Just think, when the go-se finally hits the fan, we'll be watching Dollhouse. Thank Jossus for the escape.
korkster, yeah, I did see that too, hehe. Will Friedle with facial hair!
Obama = Jasmine

Hillary = Glory

Edwards = Ben

McCain = The Master

Romney = The Mayor

Huckabee = Caleb

Bush = The Trio

Cheney = The First
Just want to scare you all by saying that this thread is being watched. Feel scared yet? ;) In all seriousness, just be good to each other, okay? On the topic - I don't think the ads will convince anyone who is not already an Obama supporter of anything, either.
I heard a water cooler rumor that Obama was going to ask Bill Gates to be his VP.
*braces for Ctrl-Alt-Del jokes and erroneous "quotes" about memory* You're right, Succatash, this thread was definitely lacking polarizing figures to discuss ;)
As I've said, I like the guy's style in several ways, even tho my vote was settled 8 years ago :-).

She's kinda in brief mode there; I mean, most of the other folks were "repetitionated," right?

And okay, the hits are being counted, but, really, to what end? (that's a computer question, not politics.)

"Yah vell," and I *still* haven't gotten the headphones I said I was getting when the AMber-directed Common Ro video first came up. I really should get 'em; it's not like I'm not in affrodable Wal-Mart every Sunday anyway. (Yes, that's "give with one ahnd take away with the other" humor , there *g.)
Just a bit confused, zeitgeist, but were you joking about watching us? I thought we were all getting along nicely. I know this thread leads to the discussion of politics, but it seems like we're avoiding our voting preferences and merely just looking at the effect the videos made on us. That, and our dismal attitude for America (my purple majesties).

DaddyCatALSO, I have no idea what you're talking about. But I'm slow. Give me four years.
I was joking and not joking at the same time; its a superhero power that I have. It was just a friendly reminder to be good to one another and keep the discussion civil. We're always watching (like creepy angels - ever see the Doctor Who episode 'Blink'?). Few things (shipping debates excepted) have the potential to cause people to get put on timeout like a political thread. Some of the phrasing upthread set off my spider-sense.

Don't feel bad, korkster, no one knows what DaddyCatALSO is talking about :) (I KID! I KID!)
Whew! You know, sometimes I feel like peas in a pod here at Whedonesque; and other times I think I missed a turn somewhere and ended up in the chewy center of the earth, where frogs speak French and humans quack like geese.

Just let me know, zeitgeist, if I start to veer onto the forbidden path. I've read the instructions, but sometimes you don't fully understand something until you take if for a test drive. (For instance, I don't, for the life of me, undserstand what "em" & "strong" do. I also don't get how to quote someone with the gray imposed boxed thing.)

Just call me a jewb (joss newb). Actually, maybe that's not a good idea for a newbie name. How about ness?

Yeah, call me a ness.
Oh holy balls! Ryder Strong...Will Friedle...be still my teenybopper heart!! (I now return you to your regularly scheduled important political talks, already in progress.)
LOL, nice korkster :) We'll keep you on the right track, no worry. "em" does this and "strong" does this. They are interchangeable with "i" and "b".
Don't worry, yellowcrayon, those two men caught my eye too. It's nice to see they've grown up since the re-runs I've watched. Now it's not improper to drool... mmmm.... :)

zeitgeist, ETA: I just realized you already answered my question. And here are the ones that I've discovered. Like this! Or this. And what about this?

Sorry, getting silly. I really need to get some sleep. How great would if be if Rider Strong was a customer on Dollhouse?

On that note.

[ edited by korkster on 2008-04-24 03:12 ]
Well done, korkster, now go get some sleep :) You've earned it!
Right there with you, Quoter Gal.

And hey, this "man of the people" thing ...as if anyone running for president was going to be "regular folks". I can't understand how any portion of the electorate buys that poorly executed ordinary guy act from a dopey, smirking multi-millionaire who didn't even earn any of his fortune himself. It's so weird. He doesn't pretend to be compassionate, even. Where's the appeal? I'm mystified.

Why do people want to make sure that the president isn't in any way above average, except that he's always got more money than most, of course? Personally, I'd love little better than to have a president substantially smarter than I am.

Otherwise, there's not much chance s/he will be able to get us out of the war without horrendous further damage, or get the economy out of the tank. I certainly couldn't do it, so why would I think any old average Joe could pull it off?

I would love to have some hope, and I'm trying. In the last election, someone from my hometown was interviewed for a NY Times article on last minute choices by "undecided voters". She said she wasn't sure, because she hadn't "decided who had more charisma." She was, like, weighing this, as if it was an issue. Wow.
I liked the videos and I agree with Sunfire that they're more for people who already support Obama. I'm an Obama supporter and the main argument I hear from people is that I should be careful about being too hopeful or optimistic...you know, like I'm a naive moron that's fallen under Obama's spell because he's promising me rainbows and kittens. So, the videos made me smile.
I'd love little better than to have a president substantially smarter than I am.


Josiah Bartlet for President!
Willow Rosenberg for President!
I love Willow, but Jed Bartlet wins! ;)
I love Willow too, but I'd be fairly unlikely to vote her into office - she can get awfully cranky . . .
So rjl, are you saying Edwards=Hillary? What implications does this give for the delegate count (i.e. do Edwards delegates get to vote for Hillary then)? Interesting, interesting.
The one scripture/philosophical book that I have no serious problems with, that of the probably fictional Lao Tzu, advises against both hope and fear. Not that we're likely to ever be able to actually live without either. But if warned, we can be at least somewhat wary of the excesses prone to both of them, and the potentially terrible consequences of those extremes.

I'm a little worried about these young people who are mocking the fear of hope. I'm not sure that they know who they're talking to. Though as others have said, it probably won't get outside the choir.
"... meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same"

eh dl ? Good advice I reckon ;).

Again, Jon Stewart talked about this and asked (roughly), after some inspirational, uplifting words from Obama, "So, how do you think he'll break our hearts ? I hope it's a financial scandal" ;).

(you don't want to fall into the "They're all as bad as each other" trap but it does sometimes seem that it's not a matter of whether governments actually are corrupt, more a matter of how hard you look to find it)
My take on things since about 1968 has been that it's in the very nature of governments to "go bad" or collapse from their own weight. And, even on a local level, it's pretty easy to see that any job that provides the spectacular opportunities for corruption that a government position does tends to attract a larger-than-normal percentage of people who are inclined to give in to the temptation (if not to actively seek it in the first place.) What gets my panties in a wad are the voters who think it's perfectly okay for them to do that - just as long as it's their party in power (hey, y'know, screw with anybody's life you want, as long as the right people are doing the screwing, right?)
like I'm a naive moron that's fallen under Obama's spell because he's promising me rainbows and kittens.

He promised me rainbow-colored kittens with his... eyes... uh, what were we talking about, again? I feel a strange compulsion to go drink a latte after this.

It does feel very much like football, Rowan Hawthorn. It doesn't matter how lousy your team is playing at the moment, because those are your colors out on the field.

It especially feels that way when all of the coverage the last few days is about percentages and who's ahead and who is able to win (self-fulfilling prophecy logic at work there). The score is what it's all about. I heard and read nothing about the point of the race, really. It's all "The spread is 9.4 NOT 10, thank you very much, pay attention!" Meanwhile the AP story on political interference in science is getting buried. Because the topic of the hour is whether or not Clinton needs white male voters in Indiana more than Obama, if Obama is a Mac, and if his supporters are more likely to drink white wine.

NPR's not really doing a better job. One of the pundits I heard yesterday did get extremely excited when a caller asked about an issue, but it was a pretty short-lived diversion. One guy also called in to yell at them, in a very theatrical head-exploding way, which was kind of strange for public radio.
I enjoyed the videos, thank you for the link shapenew! I thought it was a cute idea to equate hope with an STD or drugs (I particularly liked the last one, at the 30 sec to Obama link, which said here is your brain *an egg* and here is your brain on hope *a baby chick*). Personally I got hope last January during the Iowa Primary, and I'm kinda happy to see that Amber & Adam have it too.
Rowan Hawthorn: I agree about people whoa ctually feel the way you said, but a lot of people just feel it can't be stopped so they move onto other issues.

korkster zeitgeist: Waht I emant was, McCain withdrew from the 2000 primaries before my state's was held so I didn't get achance to vote for him then but I've been waiting for one. (Technically, I did two days ago but thignswere settled by then.) I've been casting PResidential votes since 1976 and I've never voted for the Democratic candidate (not even in 1992) and I'm not, given my values, going to be starting now.

As for the ehadphones, well,t he library computers don't have speakers and at work they frown on audio entertainemtn even on rbeaks so I'll need earphones to listne tot hem. And I don't think Amber and Adam,g iven *their* values, would be happy about driving me to buy at Wal-MArt.

And seriosuly, what does it *really* mean when the website says "Every view counts," really?
DaddyCatALSO, I'll take you to get some headphones, no matter what political view you have. Every Whedonite should have headphones... how else can we view amazing videos by Tom Lenk or listen to interviews by His Royal Purleness? We support our fellow addicts. :)

Due to moving constraints & age & such, this will be my first time voting in the Presidential election, and, unfortunately, I'm already jaded and cynnical. Not even these vidoes can save me. Maybe we could boycott elections? I wouldn't mind some chaos for a while- it'd be a nice change from "everything's okay" lie.

And, Sunfire, I agree with you too. We're actually prepping up to the mayoral elections here is San Diego and yesterday our current mayor got caught on tape telling his competitor, "F*** you, Francis". So, what is everyone talking about? That. Not what each candidate represents, no. They're spending all of their time talking about how they're willing to talk about the issues without actually talking about the issues and what they're planning on doing. It's like watching two kids fight. I feel the same with Clinton & Obama.

Hopefully by November my French & German will be fluent enough to make a trip.
DaddyCatALSO:
I've been casting PResidential votes since 1976 and I've never voted for the Democratic candidate (not even in 1992) and I'm not, given my values, going to be starting now.

Funny how that works, isn't it? "Values" - not to mention ethics, scruples, standards, and empathy for other people (or, rather, what I see as the absolute lack of any and all of the above) - is why I've only ever voted for one *Republican* presidential candidate since 1973 (and helped vote him out for a second term, having found reason to regret voting for *him* almost immediately,) and what prompted me in the last election to change my registration to Democrat after having been registered as an Independent since my 18th birthday. I still will vote Republican for a local or state office if I feel that's the best candidate for the job, but as of the 2000 elections, I've put an indefinite hold on voting Republican for any national office.
Well, I figure if you believe in something it can't stay just as words, you have to be yourself in the outside world too. Which includes, secret ballots notwithstanding (and voting booths in my state no longer are curtained) the voting booth, since that's one way we affect the public.

Which is also why I don't enjoy discussing politics; for me it goes deep and I assume it does for everyone else too so why fight over it?

But then, there's the mother of my friend Dave from uni. She voted for Kennedy, Goldwater, Wallace, Nixon, and Carter. His best guess was she was voting for the one she thought was the cutest.

Personally, I prefer people with depth. If I agree with them we can have fun reinforcing each other. If I don't, there's a million other things to talk about.

Kinda why I like this election. The candidates have depth.
His best guess was she was voting for the one she thought was the cutest.

Actually, it's fairly well established that a *lot* of people do exactly that.
I'm a little worried about these young people who are mocking the fear of hope. I'm not sure that they know who they're talking to. Though as others have said, it probably won't get outside the choir.

The people in the videos are my age. This will be the fourth presidential election I've voted in.

What worries me is this fear of the possibilty of extremes. I have a fear of extreme nationalism and police states. We're overdue for the pendulum to swing the other way.

I literally cried when I learned the 2004 election results. And I suppose that is when I realized I really did want to get married and just how many people really don't want me to. All along I thought people just didn't consider marriage equality to be important enough change their vote.

DaddyCat...do you really know if Amber and Adamn wouldn't drive you to Wal-Mart to pick up a pair of headphones?

My partner works at Wal-Mart. I live in a double wide in South Carolina. We're both Democrats. I know good and well that where people shop isn't always about values, but about what people can afford. Though in my experience, buying electronics from Wal-Mart is usually a waste of money and/or my patience trying to splice cheap wire.
I once did NOT vote for Jimmy Carter for President because I was already, at a young age, too cynical to believe he was for real. I've been proved wrong ever since.
I remember that life lesson whenever I've voted from here on in.
On a different note, I got excited when I thought I saw Tom Lenk in the first video but realized afterwards that it wasn't.
The people in the videos are my age. This will be the fourth presidential election I've voted in.

What I said sounded condescending. I didn't really mean it like that. There are generational things, though, even if people interpret them really differently. My first presidential vote was for Mondale against Reagan term #2. How empowered I felt!

Lioness, you didn't vote or you voted for Ford?
GrrlRomeo;True about the prices, that's the main reason I go there for my Earth Shoes. (Sigh, if I could onlya fford a traielr myself instead of an $80 a week room) But I don't need to put any dirvers out of their way; I go to the same malle evry Sunday to do my maing rocery shopping at the Giant Foods anyhow. Right on the bus routes.
DaddyCatALSO: I also often avoid talking politics with people who disagree with me (as you do), because it gives me a tummy-ache, and is generally fairly futile. And I also enjoy talking politics with people who basically agree with me, because it doesn't give me a tummyache, and is consoling, to an extent.

I don't think we should be indulging ourselves this way, though.If something is really important, shouldn't we be putting it on the line? The hardest thing in the world is to change your own, or someone else's mind about something really important...but it's well worth the trouble, isn't it?

I think all of this should be discussed- not here- wrong forum and all- and not dismissed with a kind of "well, that's what I believe" bottom line. I know it's too exhausting to do all the time, but personally, I think I should get myself doing it more. Cause it's not the same as "I prefer blue to green" or "I chose to believe in a higher power"- it's about what is going to happen to all of us in our social, economic and political lives.

[ edited by toast on 2008-04-25 14:49 ]
I agree toast, never been one for not talking about the big two (politics and religion) though I understand why people don't (usually it ends acrimoniously and even if not, if you keep peeling back the layers eventually you do reach a point where it's an arbitrary decision - for instance, the balancing point between freedom and security is in a different place for everyone).

Reckon people are also sometimes worried that their most fundamental beliefs might lie in tatters by the end but I guess I see beliefs that can't stand the harsh light of day (i.e. debate) as being not worth having in the first place. Hard as it is to accept that you're wrong about something (or at least that your position needs more thought), surely it's better to do that than to continue to be wrong ?
Saje: "...if you keep peeling back the layers eventually you do reach a point where it's an arbitrary decision - for instance, the balancing point between freedom and security is in a different place for everyone)."

I think this is everso true, Saje, and I also agree with the talking about it all anyway, just to see if we can strip away the clutter and get to that point - 'cause sometimes that's where the revelations get a chance to come in...

And point of interest - whedonesque discussions helped lead to one of my most recent political turnarounds, and ultimately led to me working on the WGA strike - so minds can be influenced here. One just has to sort out what is gold and what is dross - if that's the word I mean - for oneself...
If the word you mean means waste, worthless matter or refuse, then yes ;)
It can be scary, QuoterGal, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Stripping away the layers is pretty painful at times, but being there for the revelations is well worth the trouble, for the most part.

Which is not to say that I'm not too lazy and chicken much of the time.
I'm a Clinton supporter, and I hope, hope, hope that Joss doesn't make an endorsement before the Democratic convention unless, well, it's for Clinton. I've cared more about this race than any other. I'm not sure how Democrats are going to come together when this is all over.
Suzie; As a Republican, Democratic fissures should make me happy, and to that extent they do. But as an American, seeing so many people (supporters of one or the other) viewing a truly outstanding breakthrough in politics in a tunnel-vission way of "the system stopping a woman in favor of just another man" or "the system trying to undermine black man in favor of just another white person" is truly disturbing. As are the people who are the polar opposite, voting against either candidate just because of gender or race. (Voting for them on the same basis makes a certain kind of sense tho.)

And I'd say it's bit late for any celeb to be doing primary endorsements now, so I think you can breathe re joss :-).

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