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May 07 2008

"Dollhouse" up for midseason? The Hollywood Reporter takes a first look at what the network's upfronts might look like and writes that it seems likely that Dollhouse won't start until midseason. ETA: Though the leading Dollhouse fansite says the Hollywood Reporter got it wrong and that Dollhouse is still set to air this Fall. ETA: FOX says the schedule isn't set in stone yet and is amused by Dollverse journalists. Even more important, there will be previews on the FOX site soon.

Fox's other high-profile new entry, Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse," which is still in production, is eyed for midseason.


Am I the only one who will be all crying and shaking if this is true?

[ edited by Simon on 2008-05-07 22:20 ]

Midseason? But I want it now! /whine
No, I will be crying and throwing tantrums daily. Say it ain't so...
When is midseason? Thanks
@ Let Down: Somewhere between January and March 2009 :(

I'm praying for the fall schedule to look different.
Am I the only one who will be all crying and shaking if this is true?


Nah. We waited years for a new Joss show, a few more months won't hurt. Also Buffy was a midseason show from what I remember and that turned out ok.
In some ways, a mid-season show might work better. A lot of fall shows don't air consistently after December, so this might give Dollhouse the boost it needs in ratings. I've been dreading the idea that it might be running against Heroes or Lost. That would probably mean the kiss of death.

[ edited by deepgirl187 on 2008-05-07 09:31 ]
Simon, I like your way of thinking. It's very impressive. Unfortunately I can't think that way.

If FOX really decides to launch DOLLHOUSE as a midseason replacement and I have to wait even longer for the best new show of the decade, then I'd call it an ancient greek tragedy. The only good thing about launching it midseason would be if "American Idol" was the lead-in for "Dollhouse", but even then I'd be rather sceptic, since a huge lead-in means for "Dollhouse" that it must draw even more viewers.

Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had a remote for Joss's brain and he could transfer his thoughts to our minds simply by us pushing a button on our remote? That's TV of the future.

Joss Whedon presents Brain Vision, the only way to enjoy entertainment and hypnotize billions of people to finally take over the world.

[ edited by Donnie on 2008-05-07 09:51 ]
I agree that mid-season might be a good thing, although I'm as anxious as anyone.
And surely, Fox would not be stupid enough to go up against Heroes or Lost, with any show they're serious about. (I know, bite my tongue.)
Unless one of those shows is running out of steam by then. Don't like either one myself, but I'm not exactly your "average TV viewer", who propels the numbers.
If going to mid-season means Fox will produce the entire season and not just the commissioned-for-now seven before airing, then I'm in favour of it. Otherwise I'll stay in this corner rocking myself to that river in Egypt.
Seeing as though I don't live in North America. As long as it comes on my tv at some point in time I'll be happy.
Patience is such an olden times pre-internet thing to have, having to wait a day from the BSG US screening to the time it arrives on my own Tv on the other side of the planet is hard enough, Dollhouse delayed six months ? Worst decision ever :)
If going to mid-season means Fox will produce the entire season and not just the commissioned-for-now seven before airing, then I'm in favour of it

Wouldn't mid season mean 12 or so episodes (like season 1 of Buffy) since half the season would be over?
Wouldn't mid season mean 12 or so episodes (like season 1 of Buffy) since half the season would be over?


24 airs in January and gets through 24 episodes.
I pray it isn't midseason. For one, hello, it's Joss, I don't want to wait. Two, it basically stands no shot at survival unless AI is it's lead-in. Sure, Terminator survived this year, but it was an established franchise and still barely scraped by. Plus, did I mention I don't want to wait?
Wouldn't mid season mean 12 or so episodes


During the strike I recall reading that the prime time networks were considering moving towards the 12 episode model that cable networks use. Perhaps the 22/24 episode season is no longer relevant for new shows.
Wouldn't mid season mean 12 or so episodes (like season 1 of Buffy) since half the season would be over?
purplehazel | May 07, 10:30 CET


Thirteen eps is average for a mid-season. Unlike in some countries, where thirteen eps is an entire season :( (You are not sacred, BBC). ;-)
So if they go with an average mid-season run, that could mean more eps filmed up-front, which would definitely be of the good. *crosses fingers*.
Posted my comment before I read yours, Simon. I hope that's not true, I'd hate to lose the character and plot development that a 22 ep season allows, even though those seasons are broken into two parts.
And aren't most cable series still on the basic twenty-two ep model, with a mid-season (wherever that falls) break? (Thinking BSG).

HBO of course does whatever they want and we accept it gladly :) (except when they cancel Carnivale), but that's premium cable.
Isn't BSG the exception? I was thinking more along the lines of The 4400, Eureka and Dexter.
The cable shows do seem to go for shorter seasons with BSG as a (theorethical, since Sci-Fi splits it into shorter seasons anyway) exception, I do believe that the 'full' 22 episode season is a part of the problem with scripted network drama and really hope that they can move away from that.

If Fox really wanted to make amends for the past they should reserve a specific time say Sundays at 2100 for 'Cult drama' and run 12 episode runs of Dollhouse, Fringe and/or other dramas of similar ilk, no reruns, no breaks for whatever reasons, no changing the time slots and a deal with the writers to tell an arc/story from start to finish in 12 episodes with no risk of cancellation in the middle.

Getting the best of the quality dramas of the cable world with the resources of network tv could really give them something to brag about.

ETA, If they also could make a deal with a deep pockets advertiser to present the final episode of a run completely without commercials, they might be in danger of godhood.

"Fox Tv and Big money inc. presents The Season 1 finale of Dollhouse - Cause we know our customers like their entertainment free of commercial breaks"

[ edited by jpr on 2008-05-07 11:16 ]
Isn't BSG the exception? I was thinking more along the lines of The 4400, Eureka and Dexter.
Simon | May 07, 10:54 CET


You could be right Simon, I haven't kept track of the length of seasons, on a lot of cable shows. I think the bottom line is that the length and time frame of cable series' are a lot less structured than the broadcast networks. And the writers strike turned everything on it's ear.
So who knows if we'll see some changes, when that dust settles. All i know is that however it comes down, if Dollhouse comes out a winner, I'm happy. :-)

And I have to say that Dexter is kind of a glaring exception to my feeling that you need the long seasons for complex story and character development.
If Fox really wanted to make amends for the past they should reserve a specific time say Sundays at 2100 for 'Cult drama' and run 12 episode runs of Dollhouse, Fringe and/or other dramas of similar ilk, no reruns, no breaks for whatever reasons, no changing the time slots and a deal with the writers to tell an arc/story from start to finish in 12 episodes with no risk of cancellation in the middle.


Ah yes, but .... in what Nirvana-like alternate reality is that likely to happen? Other than one where I'm the head "deity-in-charge". ;-)
But I'd still go with the "long season with a break" model, in most cases. I can't imaging a show like BSG having shorter seasons. Or for that matter, BtVS.
Firefly managed a perfect arc in thirteen eps (once we got to see them all, in order), but it still had that "mid-season break" feel, at the end. *sniffle*

In a perfect entertainment world, the needs of the story would dictate everything. As in, creativity would rule over the concerns of commerce. Not holding my breath, as that's apparently been an issue since Shakespeare's time.
I can't imaging a show like BSG having shorter seasons.


Well the first season was short and I think that one was the best to date.
My ideal for Dollhouse would be for Fox to air the 7-episode run before the world series as an extended mini-seres/pilot, then start the regular series in January for mid season. :D
(You are not sacred, BBC). ;-)

Crumpets wave, attack ! Hobnobs, stand to ... ;-).

(as i've mentioned, 13 episodes is actually a long "season" here too Shey)

I think this is a good thing, much as I don't want to wait. Baseball etc. is over by January right ? So that means there's less chance of pre-emption or schedule bouncing and possibly less competition too.

Re: cable, 10 or 12 episodes seems about the average (of the stuff I watch) though on Sci-fi the Stargates and BSG (post season 1) both had 20 episodes but built around a semi-10-episode structure (so SG1 and Atlantis would have a big two parter starting at ep 10, almost a season finale, then a break and then the second part and the rest of the season a few months later). I really like it since it means the viewing is staggered (Stargate starts in the summer for instance) and IMO 12 episodes is plenty of time to tell an arc story - as Simon says, 'Dexter' has shown this to excellent effect (the only snag being, cable shows usually have fewer/no adverts and so more actual episode time than network shows - 'Dexter' for instance, across 12 eps probably accrues about 80 more minutes of story time or nearly another two complete network episodes).
I think Burn Notice and Psych -- and possibly Monk but I don't watch it so *shrugs* -- both do around 14-16 episodes. I like 14-16, you get a nice long arc but plenty of time for stand-alones.
Crumpets wave, attack ! Hobnobs, stand to ... ;-).


Crumpets can wave? Who knew. As for "hobnobs" .... don't have a clue. ;-)
Shey, realism sometimes gets in the way when things need to change and scripted drama needs to change if it's going to survive the reality onslaught.

The "long season with a break" model almost guarantees that there will be some less than perfect eps slipping by because of the rush of producing so many episodes.
Since reruns have basically disappeared the old 22 episodes seasons in my mind doesn't make sense anymore, what is needed is for more shows to do the 24 thing, one long uninterrupted season run, as far as I understand that would be a lot easier if the production runs where a bit shorter.

The three eps and cancelled theory of network scheduling have to disappear at least for networks that want to attract the more 'enthusiastic' tv watching crowd, spending big bucks promoting a show that disappears almost immediately cannot be commercially viable, a deal needs to be struck between networks, viewers and writers, - If you as writers promise us an exciting arc with a satisfactory conclusion and the network promises not to cancel 'our' show in midflight we promise to watch, buy the dvd's and all the merchandising crap you're willing to provide.

The way the Sci-fi channels treats each season of BSG is almost exactly similar to if they had two ten episode seasons and if they had, it might be easier to understand the length of the 'breaks', do they really plan to hold S4 part 2 until 2009 ? Hard to fathom if they really do it.
I don't know what's going on with this one - it's possible FOX have changed their mind, but last week several people told me it's looking at a late August premiere.

By delaying to mid-season they could use American Idol to better sling shot it to launch. Although FOX's record of launching drama successful at mid season isn't entirely great, to be honest.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-07 12:09 ]
Are the Dollhouse cast and crew going to be at Comic Con? Cause I'm sure us Mannequins will want to see them there.
Joss is definitely going to be at Comic Con, I suppose. Isn't he going there like every year? He also said that Dr. Horrible is going to be released around Comic Con-time, so if that's true, then Comic Con would be the perfect place to promote it. I can also imagine Eliza going there, since she's one of Hollywood's most sincere stars.
Gossi, is it possible that Fox sees themselves as only capable of promoting one show of this character at the time and for that reason want to choose between pushing hard for Fringe or Dollhouse in August ?
'Burn Notice' does 12 (or did in season 1 anyway), 'Dexter' does 12, 'Deadwood' did 12, 'Six Feet Under' did 12 or 13, 'The Dead Zone' did from 11-19 depending on season but mostly around 12 though it's true 'Monk' does 16 and 'Psych' is also around there so there's some variance but 12 ish seems about average for cable.

As for "hobnobs" .... don't have a clue. ;-)

Yeah, they're sneaky that way - sort of like the SAS of biscuits ;).

... as far as I understand that would be a lot easier if the production runs where a bit shorter.

Yep, AFAIK, breaks in runs are partly to give the production a chance to regain some ground since most shows take about 8 or 9 days to make and obviously air every 7, sooner or later that's going to catch up with you. Course, 6-13 episodes with up to a year between is the UK norm so it'd take a lot less getting used to for some than others ;).
I like 12-episode seasons. That's plenty of time to tell a story, but not enough time to grow a a lot of flab. I think the later, longer seasons of BSG could do with a trim. And Lost and Heroes, too.

Of course, you can also tell a good story in 2 hours. The trick (as jpr says) is for the creators to know from the outset how much time they have. Too much to ask for, I suppose.
Burn Notice was announced to be 16 episodes this coming season. I think it's a USA Network thing.
Did I miss something? Did Fox say that Dollhouse has been commissioned for 5 more episodes? Don't we still only have 7 at the moment?
We do indeed Vortigun, people are just speculating because 12-13 episodes is the norm for the first season of a mid-season launched show (as with Buffy).

Burn Notice was announced to be 16 episodes this coming season.

Dear USA Network,

Kindly stop undermining my point about the average season for a cable show.

Quite frankly I am appalled and I post on the internet,

Saje

;-)
No, they didn't add 5 more, people are just talking about it being a midseason and the possibility of moving to shorter seasons. I'm surprised no one was loudly proclaiming their terror at the prospect of adaptations of both Life on Mars and Spaced (two of my favorite shows of all time) being adapted for the US. Hobnobs rule :) Also, since I mentioned Spaced, Jaffa Cakes are a must. Most cable shows still fall into the approximately 13-ep season at this point. Sometimes they run two together or something like that as a premiere or season finale event, but it seems to be the number for FX/HBO/USA.
What the hell? Why midseason... What is the logic behind that? Shouldn't your highest profile series go up at the time when people are most likely to start follow a new series?
I don't care if Dollhouse is midseason, as long as it airs. Like Simon said, we've waited four years for new Joss on TV; we can wait a while longer.

Saje, I'd say that the median length of a cable series is probably 13 episodes. The length of the season mostly depends on how much money the network has and how successful the show is.
Shouldn't your highest profile series go up at the time when people are most likely to start follow a new series?


Fringe is starting right away. Like it or not the words "From one of the Creators of Lost/ALIAS/etc," is the highest profile thing they have. To beat the 13 ep thing to death it does seem to be the most common length for cable shows regardless of how successful they are, though the unsuccessful ones get yanked before their full run (4400, BSG to begin with, Rescue Me, The Shield, Dirt, Six feet Under, The Riches, Damages, etc., etc., etc.). Working strictly from the definition of the word the media season length for cable shows is probably actually just over or just under 13.
I'm surprised no one was loudly proclaiming their terror at the prospect of adaptations of both Life on Mars and Spaced ...

I've already been loudly terrified about that for a while (no mention of 'The IT Crowd' though so hopefully it's dead on the vine - cross 'em if you got 'em ;). 'The 11th Hour' will be interesting too - somehow I expect a different vibe to the UK one (with Patrick Stewart and Ashley Jenson).

(OK, I changed my mind - Hobnobs are like the SBS and Jaffa Cakes are the SAS. Jammie Dodgers might be some branch of the intelligence services)

Saje, I'd say that the median length of a cable series is probably 13 episodes.

Maybe Invisible Green though there don't really seem to be enough below 12 for it to be in the middle of the pack. I'm gonna stick to the highly technical 'ish' I reckon ;).

ETA: Damn you expando-posts ! *shakes fist* Or, like zeitgeist said ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-05-07 14:12 ]
I'm happy to wait for Dollhouse, too. I imagine that, like all fine things, it will be even better if it's left to mature for a while.

Now I know the names, ages and rough personality traits of the characters, I'm content to pass the time by making up stories of my own. (Others call it fanfic- I just call it 'talking to myself while stuck in traffic'- since I don't actually write anything down!)

Oh, and are we playing Simon says again, Invisible Green?

ETA- I watched 'The IT Crowd' for the first time tonight, and to my surprise, it actually cracked me up quite a few times. It was the one with the boyfriend called 'Peter File'- that's comedy gold, innit?!

[ edited by missb on 2008-05-07 14:18 ]
"I'm Peter File, i'm Peter File !". I mean, if you can't laugh at that ... ;).
I hope so, missb. Simon says, "FOX, promote Dollhouse heavily and put it in a good timeslot with a strong lead-in." FOX, cancel Dollhouse. Oh, Simon didn't say!

Saje, for a low-number example, most Comedy Central series only run 4-6 episodes for their first (or only) season. Though if the series continues, the subsequent seasons are usually longer.
Invisible Green - then thats only a partial order, equivalent to a mid-season replacement. South Park had a 13 ep S1, but later seasons appear to be 14-17 and Reno 911 appears to be 14-16.
Dear USA Network Comedy Central,

Kindly stop undermining my point about the average median season for a cable show.

Quite frankly I am appalled and I post on the internet,

Saje

(bloody facts, they've no mercy when it comes to my hypotheses ;)
As long as there is a new Whedon show in the pipelines, for real and for true, I am quite content. I can wait.

Mannequins, eh?
SAG negotiations aren't going well. I suppose another strike could delay things further.
Sorry, I'm hopelessly pessimistic.
(and redundant)
Yeah, I was wondering if that was part of the motivation for considering it for mid-season.
They're going to do something dirty like put it up against "Lost" or "Heroes" or "Pushing Daisies." Then they wonder why genre shows do poorly after pitting them against each other. Watch them pit "Fringe" against "Lost."

Joss's shows will always come first for me. I'll watch the others, too. Just not while they're airing. Waiting till midseason does suck, especially when we know "Wonderfalls" was a midseason show.
As much as I like long seasons, I think I've spent too much time watching Doctor Who and Torchwood. I'm starting to prefer the 13 episode model. I've noticed (espeically for Doctor Who) that it allows for stand-alones while still maintaining a story arc throughout. With twenty-two episodes, I think it's a lot easier to run into that one or two episodes that don't really contribute to the story that much. With a shorter season, you don't really have the time.

And as long as I'm bringing up British series, I did notice the stuff about Life On Mars and McSpaced, but I refuse to acknowledge it. May they both die a painful death in series pickup limbo. ;)
I just want the real Life on Mars to be released on R1 DVD!
grr arrgh....i WANT DOLLHOUSE NOW!
So let me get this straight. "Dollhouse", one of the most anticipated fall shows will premiere midseason? And a crappy re-do of the classic British comedy "Spaced" will premiere this fall? Just when I think I can love you again Fox, you hurt me again. ;)
From IGN

Some might also fear not getting a fall launch indicates a lack of faith in the project at FOX, especially given Whedon's bad history at the network with Firefly. One thing to keep in mind though is that part of FOX's decision-making with Dollhouse is no doubt affected by the fact that it's a bit behind other series like Fringe. Fringe had a completed pilot script before the writers' strike and a pilot was produced earlier this year. On the other hand, Whedon had not yet begun writing Dollhouse when the strike began. He had to quickly do so when the strike finished and the pilot for the show is currently in production.


This is making it sound like they're pushing it to midseason in order to give Joss the time to ensure it's done right, rather than rushing it into the fall lineup.
Weeping now.
I'll only be crying if I can't get it without signing up to Sky.

I would have been surprised by anything else, to be honest. And if it was good enough for Twin Peaks...

This is making it sound like they're pushing it to midseason in order to give Joss the time to ensure it's done right, rather than rushing it into the fall lineup.


Yeah, but technically the pilot script is ready, the pilot is in production, Whedon said they already broke following episodes and most new shows start to shoot the following episodes in June/July, so they're actually just about to hit the usual television routine. So, I don't understand why Joss would need more time to make sure that everything is done right, when everything is already in place. It would make more sense to me if they had not started shooting yet and didn't even have an order for subsequent episodes, but since they're already that far into the production of the series, I'm confused as to why Joss would need time to ensure it's done right. The upcoming SAG strike is one of the only reasons I could see as a possibility for why he would need more time, but then again wouldn't "Fringe"?
Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had a remote for Joss's brain and he could transfer his thoughts to our minds simply by us pushing a button on our remote? That's TV of the future.

Joss Whedon presents Brain Vision, the only way to enjoy entertainment and hypnotize billions of people to finally take over the world.

I thought that was the iHole?

If it does go midseason, I would think it'd be more likely to be paired with 24 than AI. I hate having to wait though.
Please remember that this is all just speculation and rumor. Fox will announce their schedule next Thursday and after that things may still change. Terminator was originally announced as a Fall show last year and then it changed to January and everything worrked out really well. Dollhouse could be pushed out the midseason and if it is, I'm sure it is for a very good reason.
As the writer of the IGN article, I'll throw my two cents in - One thing to consider is everyone (Joss, the studio, the network) have to look at the pilot when it's completed and see if any changes need to be made to it and as a result, to the series itself. Every pilot goes through this and last year has several big examples - the recasting of almost the entire cast of Moonlight; the recasting of key roles on Bionic Woman and Aliens in America; a character being completely lifted out of Chuck; the back story on the main character's mother being altered on Dirty Sexy Money. Of course most Buffy fans know this process is what brought Alyson Hannigan into our lives. The delay in the pilot being produced for Dollhouse (usually any shows being picked up for series would have completed pilots by the time the Upfronts occured) on top of the worries over a potential actors strike (which could potentially hold up both recasting/additional casting, if needed, and of course ongoing production) are all possible contributing factors to the decision to wait on Dollhouse.
I worry that this rumor has come out of Fox, and might be the result of their being disappointed in the episode Joss just wrote, directed and filmed.... Am I just being paranoid? Fox Universal (my bad, thanks for the correction!) was dissatisfied with 'Bionic Woman' so they got rid of the talented actress playing Jamie's little sister to replace her with someone young and cute who couldn't act, is this their plan now for 'Dollhouse'? To see how much they can screw it up? I'm sorry to sound so down about this, but I was really hoping for a summer start to 'Dollhouse' (which IMO would have meant that Fox was so excited about it they wanted to give it a jump start on the next TV season).

I see Eric G posted while I was writing my post: and maybe the recasting process can be a good (I think of Joss replaying Inara!), but as in 'Bionic Woman' I think letting the network (any network) screw around just messes things up... a lot!

[ edited by embers on 2008-05-07 17:54 ]

[ edited by embers on 2008-05-07 18:50 ]
Its a good thing no one just freaks out about rumor and speculation... oh, wait, this is fandom ;) Not having a pilot fully complete before upfronts is good enough reason to push something to midseason in my armchair head of programming opinion.
I believe Bionic Woman was all NBC Universal screwing up, not that Fox cannot do it, but this one isn't theirs :)
embers, yes. I think you are over reacting (as are many folk here) to something that did not come out of Fox and seems to be speculation by a Hollywood Reporter flunky on a slow news day while everyone waits for the upfronts next week. meh.
How does all of this tie into the idea that technically this isn't a "pilot"? Remember the story about how they were foregoing filming a "pilot" in order to spend that money on the sets? So why is everyone now running around talking about "the pilot wasn't written until" and "the pilot's still being shot" or whatever.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-05-07 18:37 ]
Air date update (a self link). I'm pretty confident The Hollywood Reporter has gotten the wrong end of the stick. zeitgeist - the Dollhouse pilot wraps shooting in a few days.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-07 18:43 ]
I'll add that to the entry. I'll put you down as the leading Dollhouse fansite or something like that.
Gossi's in the lead!
You can put one of those unattributed
quotes on your site now--
"the leading Dollhouse fansite!" (I love those.)
Oddly, that Fox-run blog - the one that reported the start of shooting, etc. - is linking to the HR story, and has titled this entry "Let The Speculation Begin." They say "...the newFox schedule is not set in stone yet."

Maybe they want the buzz? Maybe the interwebbian reactions help them figure out possible reactions without holding focus groups? Maybe the HR story is a plant to create buzz?

Dunno - but it occurred to me...
One thing to consider is everyone (Joss, the studio, the network) have to look at the pilot when it's completed and see if any changes need to be made to it and as a result, to the series itself. Every pilot goes through this and last year has several big examples...


Eric G, FOX ordered 7 episodes right from the start, so there isn't likely to be any recasting. Usually a pilot is shot first, and then the network decides if they want to order additional episodes, but that isn't the case here.
"the leading Dollhouse fansite!"

"This is the best website on the internet. It also is really helpful for Dollhouse news."

ok, for reals: "I check Dollverse.com for Dollhouse information, since it distinguishes between news and rumors. I like both, but I like to know which is which."
How come Dollverse isn't linked on that Fox-run blog?
Dear Associated Press,

"The producers" again? ARRRRRGHHHH!

Signed,
I'm going to go read Nikki Finke now.
Naturally, as one does in Hollywood, when I want the labor news, I run right over to the AMPTP site to get the scoop - and then I remember what planet I'm on, and head on over to Nikki Finke and the Screen Actors Guild.

Bugger. I knew it was gonna be a long haul, but I was hoping that the talks would continue unabated. *sigh* It makes me feel so tired - I haven't really caught up on stuff since the WGA strike - and I have so much other stuff to do, but...

ARRRRGGGGGH!

*goes to have a little SAG look-see...*


ETA: Yeah, that was one of the first things that occurred to me, b!X - and I even spent about ten minutes trying to find a way to tell them about it - but they don't make themselves particularly accessible to public input, do they? I couldn't find a way, and I went through hoops on the Fox site trying to find something...

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-05-07 19:50 ]
Oooh, I never noticed the previous blog on the Fox Blog site the intershow nerd fight.

Fighting over Summer Glau. Fun.
Yeah, just make sure you go to AMPTP.org. *cough*
So who's up for starting Fans4Actors? ;)
Dizzy, just kill me first and then I'll be happy to do it ; >

(And I'll email you about that other thing ASAP, I swear.)
I think an actors' strike is very unlikely. Of course, that is a hunch that may prove to be very wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
Invisible Green - I know Fox ordered seven episodes, but they still will want to pause after the pilot is shot to see what is working and potentially not working with the show. The seven episode order, pilot unseen, is great, but doesn't mean that some of the usual rules won't still apply and that the network and studio will just say "go film seven episodes" without looking in on progress and giving notes. And embers, thanks for reminding me Inara was another case of recasting done after the initial production.
There's only 7 shows - so mid-season would be great, give us time to tell non-Whedon people, "you bored? there's some great tv on now!"
I hate waiting, but patience is a virtue right? I need more virtues. ;-)

swanjun said:
I just want the real Life on Mars to be released on R1 DVD!

Me too!
BrownCoat_Tabz, just because FBC only ordered 7 shows means nothing. It is just the initial order. Not the final one.
Eric G, that goes right to my earlier question which no one answered, and I'm still greatly confused over it.

If they are going to treat it like a pilot by applying the usual pilot rules to it, then why did they announce that they weren't making a pilot and spending the money instead on the sets.

No one's really explained that announcement, to my recollection, and it would seem especially useful here, since everything is starting to sound like they ARE considering it a pilot.
I'd say it's a semi-pilot. Because they're shutting down for 6 weeks after shooting it. Ep 2 starts end of June, beginning of July.
They are not applying the usual pilot rules (if those really exist) to it. It is just the first episode.
Joss is definitely going to be at Comic Con, I suppose.


This is one of the things I'm hoping for, but not dieing for.

Back to the SAG strike: I really don't understand why the producers are making this difficult. You need writers, directors, and actors to get something seen to the public (not including all of the unseen crew), so why not cut each a fair and slightly equal deal? Why is this so hard?
Thanks for adding those further links to your post, Donnie - and now they have linked Dollverse on their blogroll.

That happened as a result of us "playing" journalist, n'est ce pas?
Excuse me for turning into Veruca Salt for a moment, but I want it now!
I can't see the SAG thing getting to strike. Mainly because it would have an immediate financial impact to AMPTP members this time - the ratings are still way down for all shows at the moment since the WGA strike, so they can't afford for shows to go off the air again so soon.

That said, if they don't want to make a fair deal, I absolutely think it *should* go to strike. Those actors should walk the hell out until it's fair. Although I may get killed by a lady I know for saying that, since she'll loose Heroes again for a while..
Yeah, they have nothing "in the can" and when actors walk, that's it - you can't get non-acting producers to go on and be House. If they've any sense at all the "producers" will be reasonable and the actors in their turn won't ask for the moon and in doing so cripple their own industry.

... patience is a virtue ...

... possess it if you can, 'tis seldom found in woman and never found in man (see, the old rhyme told me I don't have to be patient ! And it's not even my fault ! ;-).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-05-07 22:31 ]
I wouldn't mind if Dollhouse was pushed to mid-season. I want it as soon as possible, just like everyone else, but I can wait. Plus, I'm scared about the possibility of Dollhouse running against big-time shows like Heroes, Lost, etc. so I want them to fit it in at a time Dollhouse is most likely to survive.

About season length? The six or seven episode long seasons over in the U.K. are too short for me. Not a big fan of that. I'm fine with the cable standard of about 13 or 14, but I do prefer the 22 episode season. But, honestly, as long as I get *any* episodes, I'll be happy.

Also, I'm glad to hear that Dollhouse might not be a midseason. Either way's fine by me, but, like I said, 'as soon as possible' would be nice, so long as the show's as best as it possibly can be. Don't want 'em rushing anything.

[ edited by Supersymmetrical on 2008-05-07 22:38 ]
They are not applying the usual pilot rules (if those really exist) to it. It is just the first episode.

No offense, but that's not a helpful statement, heh, because Eric G says precisely the opposite, and so this is clearing up exactly nothing.

I'd prefer explanations of why people are taking one position or the other one this question, not just declarations.
It came up heads ?
Are there really any hard and fast rules about what constitutes a pilot anyway? Isn't a pilot pretty much a spec episode to show the network honchos? Granted, a lot of pilot episodes end up airing as first episodes, but then, a lot of pilots don't get aired. Since FOX gave Joss a seven episode commitment without seeing a produced pilot, does it even matter what it's called? Or am I just stupid with this? Umm, don't answer that.
bix, a pilot is a sales tool used to convince a network to purchase /order a show to series(as I'm sure you know) and this first episode is not operating like a sales tool/pilot since the series has already been purchased and already ordered to series.

Does that mean that the product won't be evaluated and tweaked if there is room for improvement? No, but it isn't being evaluated as to whether or not it will be broadcast. All shows are constantly evaluated for room for improvement.

I'm just saying that this is a first episode in an already purchased product, not a sales tool for a product that may or may not be bought.

I don't know Eric G. from Adam so I know not the source of his knowledge or information nor would I speculate as to the source of his information.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2008-05-07 23:00 ]
Hee hee, I wonder how many dozens of Whedonesquer comments are queued up behind that oh-so-innocuous No comment.
theonetruebix, look at it this way - it's not a normal pilot in so much as yes, it already has a series commitment. Most shows have to use the pilot to even have a chance to get on the air. Dollhouse doesn't. That means they can go ahead and build sets, because they know the show will continue past the pilot stage. That being said, it doesn't mean everything they initially shoot or the way they initially edit it will stay 100% the same or that it wonít still have notes after the pilot is made. So in that sense, it is like other pilots... but specifically for shows that get picked up. They will hone it and refine it like they would other shows before continuing on with more episodes. Thatís why I used all those examples of shows that got picked up but still made big changes after the pilots were shot (that's not to say big changes will happen for Dollhouse - who knows?). Here at least though, they at least already know the show will be picked up. Make sense?
Even more important, there will be previews on the FOX site soon.

Can someone show me where it says this? I didn't see it, but it sure excites me.

EDIT: Ah, I see. Thanks, Dizzy.

And I'll again note my intense excitement. I'll be crossing my fingers for the accuracy of gossi's folks.

[ edited by Jobo on 2008-05-08 02:20 ]
Jobo, find it at the link above, "Dollverse journalists".
So is Joss a member of SAG? Will we be getting more St.Crispian speeches soon? I mean I hope it isn't needed and I know for a fact that Quoter Gal worked her fingers to the bone for F4W but all that posting was nice....
*blushes beet red*

Thanks, Lioness, but I feel compelled to mention that there were a bunch of people that worked their asses off on F4W, but don't have a big mouth like mine, and so may not have been as visible, or visible in the same places.

In fact, I must mention JenskiJen who spent long hours of her life sorting out and cleaning up stuff at the end of the campaign and the auctions. She was as tenacious as I've ever seen a human being be and it was much needed and appreciated. Obviously there were a ton of other hard-working folks, but I just had to mention Jen, who did so much work after-the-fact and after the fun.

Sorry for the big OT rant, but I really wanted to emphasize her contribution.

*grins and disappears again...*
Well, it certainly sounds like she deserves a good rant, on-topic or off. Good work Jenski Jen! You're a doll. (See that? See how I got back to topic?)
There are plenty of fandom related (and personal) efforts that owe huge debts of gratitude to Jenski. I just wanted to join in the lovefest.
*blushes* I can't believe I only just found this. Thanks QuoterGal, jcs and TaramaC! I really appreciate it. And today, I think I really needed the boost. *enjoys the lovefest*

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