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May 14 2008

Dollhouse news from Joss! Lots and lots of juicy tidbits to be had. Kristin confirms that Joss mentioned a 13 episode order. Also Joss posts here as well.

Well I'm much more sanguine about the January 2009 premier of Dollhouse now that I know they are writing, and planning future episodes (if you know who is directing the 8th episode then that seems like a good sign to me!). And I think we can expect Dr. Horrible to be linked all over the interweb as soon as it is available, in fact if they want to put the DVD up for pre-order then I am ready w/cash in hand!
No Dollhouse presentation? Well, I'm going to go and eat about 14 hats now, and bash some people. Edit: on an actual serious note, sorry. 'cos I said there would be, 'cos I was told a while ago there would be.

On the plus side, a mention of episode 8. Squee.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-14 16:54 ]
Tim is writing and directing the midseason two-parter, namely episodes seven and eight.


Does that mean the show is locked for 13 episodes?
Hmm. There's a reference in there to "the midseason two-parter, namely episodes seven and eight". Does that mean there's more than a 7-episode order now, or does this mean they're just planning it that way (which would also mean if it doesn't get more than 7 episodes, we'll end in the middle of a story)?

ETA: Simon beat me.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-05-14 16:58 ]
Yeah, I've twigged on that too.

By the way, if Joss is serious about wanting help for Doctor Horrible, can somebody involved please email me? I gots many ideas on that one.
Really do hope so Simon.

And as for helping promote Dr Horrible, I'm ready and waiting....
I'd pay to see the hat thing gossi, it'd be like the egg eating contest in 'Cool Hand Luke' except arguably better for your heart.

And Doctor Whatnow ? Has Joss made some kind of sensational internet based musical dramedy or something ? Trying to think of a way to spread the news of an internet based short ... Maybe a direct mail campaign or flyers ? Or going door-to-door ?

(i'd guess the "midseason" episodes are about preparation rather than definite commitment but it'd be nice to be wrong)
This is my first Whedonesque post.. Finally after like 5 years reading about the news I can finally comment (yay! for me, and sorry about the "not so good english". I'm from Finland so english is kind of a challenge.. I actually learnd my english from Buffy :D).

Anyhow.. Super excited about Dollhouse and the mid-season premier isn't looking so bad after all. If DH gets a good timeslot there might be hope. I'm hoping that FOX will pair it up with 24. And stay away from fridays..
Dr.Horrible is also getting my giddy intrests :D. Need some Joss stuff PRONTO!
Doctor Horrible's gonna get web traffic like nobody's business. The interwebs shall be rent in twain.
Joss isn't the showrunner?
Joss not being the showrunner doesn't sound promising. Sounds like on Lost, where Carlton and Damon handle everything now instead of J.J.

Difference being, Craft and Fain ain't nowhere near as good as Darlton.
(i'd guess the "midseason" episodes are about preparation rather than definite commitment but it'd be nice to be wrong)


However if ep 7 is part one of a two-parter, I would hope that this implies that they expect it to be aired. Otherwise its a pretty jerky thing to do ;)
Joss not being the showrunner doesn't sound promising.


He wasn't the showrunner on Angel and that turned out ok.
I'm thinking that getting the word out about Dr. Horrible isn't going to be terribly difficult for the large, worldwide, internet based, fanbase that Joss has. One post here by His Purpleness should be enough to get the ball rolling. From there, well, we fans should be able to take it from there.
Can't Stop the Signal.
So basically Sarah and Elizabeth, are the new Marti / David G. / Tim / Jeffrey...
"Joss needs your/our help promoting Dr. Horrible"

As if he needed to ask...

...

Joss not the showrunner?? =/
Showrunners run day to day operations. Given Joss's past we all know nothing flies by without his involvement.

As for 13 episodes. I could have sworn I read that on one of the posts on this site that linked to a confirmation of Midseason debut for Dollhouse. I think there's a commitment here from FOX and they may not want it squashed come September when people are trying to get back into the swing of things after a cut short TV season this past year.

We'll see. I can't wait for this!
He wasn't the showrunner on Angel and that turned out ok.


My point was more to do with who IS showrunner, not who isn't.

[ edited by Vaughn on 2008-05-14 17:30 ]
Welcome Basff!
Well, I have to eat my hat as well, and no longer trust my sources who obviously don't know what they are talking about. My bad.

I figure that is Joss isn't the showrunner then that frees him up for other projects as well. Maybe. That is all good.
He wasn't the showrunner on Angel and that turned out ok.


still... I was hoping this'd be a full-Joss-force thing.

I figure that is Joss isn't the showrunner then that frees him up for other projects as well. Maybe. That is all good.


ok, that's a good point... I'll just concentrate on this then.

...

why, oh why, january is so fricking far away???
I want it now :(.... I thought that he was going to actually run the show...
I don't really know if this counts as self linking or not, but there's an IRC channel for Dollhouse nobody uses. If anybody does IRC. It's #dollhouse on irc.blitzed.org.
"Sarah Fain and Elizabeth Craft are the show runners."

....What?

Joss not being show-runner is pretty bad news. That, paired up with the whole "it's going to air in January instead" news that we got this week has put a considerable damper on my anticipation for this. How is Joss *not* the show-runner? (And wasn't he "co-show-runner" with David Greenwalt on Angel for the first four seasons and show-runner for the fifth?) But now he's just what, occasional writer and director? I hate to complain because I'm incredibly excited for all the up-coming Joss projects as well as the current comic projects, but this is not at all how Joss made it seem when he first announced Dollhouse. I know I'm not alone in not even imagining that Joss wouldn't be show-runner for "Dollhouse."
I'm thinking that getting the word out about Dr. Horrible isn't going to be terribly difficult for the large, worldwide, internet based, fanbase that Joss has.

I don't underestimate our might, and especially the might of a few particular people who excel in the whole web fan presence arena, but we are but a drop in these interwebbian seas. More importantly, I do think with the three stars' names and Joss's attached, plus fans efforts, it's going to rather literally be the quote people here are getting tired of, and not in the jokey tv-quoting way. This is a new method of promotion and distribution for a tv-quality short film with rather identifiable industry names attached to it.

I just hope they make sure the server can handle the traffic, if they're hosting it on their own site and not going the youtube route.
Dollhouse is Joss' baby.

Seriously.

I'm more concerned about how the show will get treated by the network, if I'm honest.
God, finally some news on Dollhouse, I've been crazy with the not-knowing! Craft and Fain were never my favorite Angel writers, but I think they can do a good job. And with Joss and Tim, it'll be a pretty nice group of people working on this. I'm very excited Joss is directing the first two episodes :)
Hey, why not promote Dr. Horrible and Dollhouse at the same time, by making the premiere of DHSAB a benefit for Mission Echo, the new housing project?

Nope, no shame. None.
Tim Minear double episode awesomeness.

As for Joss not being showrunner, I wouldn't worry too much. We all know how much he invests in his own work, he doesn't seem the sort to just come up with a concept he loves and then just hand it off to someone else (post-Buffy movie anyway). This isn't going to be a case of him saying 'OK guys, get on with, I'll pop my head round the door every month or so.'
Yes, I think he did rewrites on every Buffy an Angel script, or at least most of them. Well, since this came up, I was little disappointed with the writing on Buffy's last season. There are some amazing episodes (Selfless, CwDP, Showtime), but mostly I found them a little off, specially for a last season. Sleeper, Potential, First Date, Touched and a few others didn't really work for me as well as Buffy used to do. But still, some of the best TV ever.
Joss not the showrunner? Seems a bit strange considering its his and Dushku's project. Even though he wasn't the showrunner on Angel, that was probably because he had Buffy to do as well. What else is he doing at the moment that it taking him away from Dollhouse? Dr. Horrible is done isn't it? Goners is no go as far as I'm aware and Ripper is completely stalled. Is there some secret project he's not told us about?
Well, he is working on the comics. But saying he isn't the showrunner doesn't mean he won't be involved in breaking stories with the other writers. I think he's said before he already had the layout for the first seven, anyway.
I do think it's odd that he won't be the showrunner - but i don't feel like it's the end of the world. My only concern is that Sarah Fain and Elizabeth Craft wrote like four episodes of Buffy? I have no idea how good they would be at running a show. Could be awesome - could suck.

Also - different people and shows have different definitions of what a showrunner does.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Joss has always been the Executive Producer/Creator and probably too much of a control freak (in a good way) to not be in charge.
They never wrote for Buffy, they were on the Angel staff. Actually, they're great writers, I just have a tiny little problem with one of their episodes in early season four, which I can't remember the name (I'm a little rusty in my fandom, sorry). It's one of the memory-less Cordelia, I kinda hate that whole thing with amnesiac Cordelia, not necessarily Fain and Craft's fault. But if I'm right they did write Underneath, one of my favorite episodes from season 5.

[ edited by danielgm86 on 2008-05-14 18:22 ]
He wasn't technically showrunner for Buffy for the last two seasons (Marti Noxon), all of Angel (David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, and Jeffrey Bell), and Firefly (Minear was the official showrunner if I recall correctly). But everyone involved with those shows said that Joss was very involved in all of them. I remember Boreanaz telling off someone who implied that Joss didn't give 110% to Angel, just like he did to all of his shows.
Nobody mentioned Steve DeKnight's involvement. I'm glad, because his talent was being squandered after "Angel" ended - and he was far too good for "Smallville."

As for Sarah & Elizabeth being show runners, I don't see a problem. Joss is delegating responsibility, most likely so he can use more of his energy on the creative end than on the day-to-day stuff.

Let's hope FOX will come up with the money to get Jane Espenson on board. All those writers put together will be more powerful than a tsunami on skates!
is anybody else a little bit nervous about this? with the cancellation of new amsterdam...i'm getting a little bit scared. i'm afraid they're setting us up and and we might be headed to the firefly fiasco all over again.

must remain hopeful!

also...anyone else sad about moonlight?
Yes, I think Joss was always very involved, it's just that when Buffy was starting season 7 and Angel season 4, he was a little bit more invested in Firefly. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's pretty understandable, considering he was still stablishing the show, while Buffy and Angel already had their tones set for years. I remember Marti Noxon said once that she didn't write more episodes of Buffy in the last season because people who didn't like season 6 blamed her for the things they didn't like. I think it was a shame, Marti is an amazing writer, and I dare say... season 6 was kind of my favorite... you can roll your eyes, I get that a lot :)
whiterabbit, I saw a few episodes of Moonlight, it was a decent show, but I really didn't get into it. Before I ever saw it I kinda hated it for one reason: The Warner Channel here in Brazil made this TV spot to advertise the show, and there was this cheesy guy on voice over saying "A vampire who's also a detective! You've never seen anything like it". Come on... seriously?!
If I'm not mistaken, David Fury was the showrunner for season 5 of 'Angel', but in the event of a tie (which means, in case they disagreed on a subject) Joss' was the word that mattered. Calm down, it's nothing to worry about.

Craft & Fain actually have a pretty good record, with them being producers on 'The Shield' after 'Angel' ended. They're pretty good writers, I think. So now I have to watch 'Women's Murder Club', which is the only other show they've ran.

[ edited by dark_tyler on 2008-05-14 18:37 ]
I'm not rolling my eyes. I also like S6 and think Marti rocks. But then I'm biased, being a slug and all.

Other than that, y'all seem to be doing some serious obsessing today. Weren't Elizabeth and Sarah involved in the production side of Angel S5? Seems to me that went well. There really isn't anything like Dollhouse at the moment and once BSG is over, those fans are going to have to go somewhere. I see a certain sense in the waiting here, but I know bunk about how all this really works.
That's right, they were on The Shield! I really like that show, there's some pretty good stuff in it.

Did Steve DeKnight leave Smallville?? If he did, good for him, they didn't deserve him there.

Is someone going to kill me for posting sooooo much? I'm getting out of the lurking on Whedonesque and I'm very excited about discussing our little fandom, you people here are cool :D
Maybe Joss is not the showrunner, because he wants to spend more time with his kid(s)...I mean, running a TV show is a hell of a job, so sharing responsibility with a writing duo seems like a good way to be involved, but yet assures him time for more important things than a TV show...

Honestly, I'm fine with it. Joss usually knows what he's doing and he's so passionate about his projects that I don't think that he'll ever walk away from his projects. He'll always be involved. You always see on screen how much passion is behind his shows. That's what I liked about his other shows and I think DOLLHOUSE won't be an exception.

I'm still sad about the midseason start, but if we're lucky it leaks on to the internet before it premieres (yeah, I know that's against the rules, but everyone of us is such a hardcore fan that we watch it on TV and buy the DVDs anyway, so I can say that!). I'm also sad that it seems like there won't be a trailer this week. :(

Here's me hoping that there will be at least some pictures.
They were also Executive Story Editors on Angel and producers/supervising producers/writers on The Shield. I don't see any reason to flip out. Joss picks great people. Period. Not being showrunner will give him an extra couple hours with the family during the week. Isn't it about time his family got to experience the joy of being Joss'd? ;)
We might get a trailer today. I'm saying 'might' on everything now.
Right there with you, zeitgeist. I'm sure he'll be all over Dollhouse, and the other writers have worked with him before, they know his style very well, and they are all great. I hope Jane Espenson comes in for season 2... assuming there will be one... [EDIT: I'm now doing crazy babbling about Dollhouse season 2... and also, I think we can trust Joss, he's always managed to create things of goodiness. Even when I was this close to give up on Angel (re: amnesiac Cordelia, blegh!), it eventually went back to its form.

[ edited by danielgm86 on 2008-05-14 18:53 ]
gossi might have a lager later this fine day. Might.
A vampire who's also a detective!


I remember my son, 15 minutes into the first episode, saying, "Does Joss know about this? Can he sue?" He watched it for a couple of more episodes and then claimed he had too much homework thereafter. Pretty telling critique from a teen.

Anyhoo, gee zeitgeist. Joss'd? I now have this well, somewhat inappropriate picture that I can't seem to get out of my head. :D
OH MY GOODNESS.

First, I'm not worried about the Joss-not-showrunner thing, because I have way, way too much faith in him than is healthy for me to have in anyone who's not, say, related to me. And also, it's so far all Buffy/Angel/Firefly people involved in the major stuff (Minear, Faincraft, etc.) so I'm pretty confident about the quality issue.

Second, two parter! Two parter!! In the middle of the season! When was the last time we had one of those? Because I'm thinking it was season two of Buffy, and while it's a stupid thing to be excited about, really really stupid, I was just thinking lately how much I liked What's My Line and how I wished they'd kept doing mid-season two-parters.

Anyway, I'm done being a loser.

Also, trailer? Might?! Today?!? I want to squeal in a manly fashion.
Jeff Bell was showrunner on "Angel" for seasons four and five. Am I the only person who remembers David -- was it Simkins -- as showrunner for one month on season four of "Angel"? -- then he was gone owing to creative differences. For about two seconds, it was going to be Tim Minear, but Joss Whedon felt he needed Tim Minear on "Firefly" more than on "Angel," and then TM did "The Inside," so when TM went over to "Firefly," Jeff Bell became the day-to-day showrunner on "Angel." David Fury was a writer/producer when he came aboard, but JB remained as showrunner. Joss Whedon was involved with "Angel" throughout. I am not sure Joss saying Elizabeth Craft and Sarah Fain are the showrunners means *anything* about Joss' involvement -- I think someone other than Joss has always nominally been the showrunner on his shows, which has not interfered in any way with the shows' ultimate Whedonness.

Edited to fix verb tense.

[ edited by Shapenew on 2008-05-14 18:59 ]
This may be an obvious question to some of you, but why are Fain and Craft a writing duo? Do they ever write on their own?
"Does Joss know about this? Can he sue?"

Angel wasn't the first vampire that was also a detective either (even just on US TV) so if that particular criticism is to be levelled at 'Moonlight' it has to be levelled at 'Angel' too.

However if ep 7 is part one of a two-parter, I would hope that this implies that they expect it to be aired. Otherwise its a pretty jerky thing to do ;)

True but i'd suppose that by the time they start shooting episode 7 they're gonna know whether there's an episode 8 - maybe Tim's mastered the cliff-hanger-semi-resolution (not like he hasn't had enough experience at the sharp end ;).
Two-parters were the most important television events of the 1990's... ^_^
I now have this well, somewhat inappropriate picture that I can't seem to get out of my head. :D


Sounds like an unofficial motto for many of our threads :)
Everything writ has been wrote, Saje. We all know that. For my kids, though, everything gets measured against Buffy and Angel. Bad parenting, I guess.
I'd call it good parenting, MysticSlug
Yeah, I don't see Joss picking his first-choice gals to showrun as being anything but indicative of 1) his trust in them and 2) his desire to maintain sanity as he enters back into the Mad-Crazy-Insane-Soul-and-Time-Sucking World of TV production.

Good for him - glad he's taking care of himself. I'm sure his involvement is and will be much-gusto-plentiful - but family, sanity and all-around health gotta walk hand-in-hand with this project, or ya know what? - at the very least, ultimately less genuine 100-proof finest-kind Joss for all.

And Steve DeKnight added to Tim Minearness? Some of the dialogue in BtVS's "Dead Things" is seriously prime - very dark and very layered. I'm a happy camper lady.

Does anyone else really want to see the Dollhouse poster Joss mentioned months ago that he made when first picturing the show? Gods, that would hold me through the lack of clips at the upfronts, if that is the case.

(And I love that Joss gives Kristin the scoops now - it's a good reward for being such a staunch supporter all these years. Joss is loyal.)
Well, I have complete faith in Joss as well.... but I'm still a little sad.

I think it's just the midseason thing putting me down.

"A vampire who's also a detective! You've never seen anything like it"


lol I remember this...
all the promos from Warner Brasil are awful. And they have always way too much spoilers...

I'm guessing FOX Brasil will buy Dollhouse, and being midseason on the US, they might show here with only a few weeks delay...
I am holding you to that might, gossi sir. I better probably see a trailer later.
Maybe we should do a little reminiscing about midseason shows that didn't tank. I'll start.

1. Buffy
2. Medium

Anyone else want to help themselves feel better? Failing this, there's always tequila, or belching, or both in combination, as a friend of mine always says.
maxsummers, how nice to find a fellow brazillian whedonite.

FOX will definetly air Dollhouse in Brazil, but I think it'll take a long time after it premieres in the US. FOX is now showing all of its programming dubbed in portuguese. The process of dubbing usually takes a long time.

The Warner Channel is only like two weeks behind the US on most shows. Tonight they will show the first Gossip Girl with little Michelle :)

EDIT: MysticSlug, Grey's Anatomy is a great example.

[ edited by danielgm86 on 2008-05-14 19:21 ]
Maybe we should do a little reminiscing about midseason shows that didn't tank. I'll start.

1. Buffy
2. Medium


I think the 'problem' everyone's having with the midseason is that it's just too damn far...

But I don't think it'll be an issue on the 'will it or won't it succeed' matter.
A thought does occur to me though. I have noticed that even though it takes a while for shows to get to us in the frozen north, it seems to be taking less longer. I wonder if the moving it to midseason (*sound of nails on chalkboard*) has anything to do with international marketing, ie. when other countries plan and buy their season line up.

max, midseason startups alway worry people. Supposedly, it's the...will stop now for fear of jinxing and the possibility of trajectile fruit.

ETA: Sorry about all the editing. Have been having trouble with my shoulder. It literally hurts to type.

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-05-14 19:33 ]

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-05-14 19:36 ]
If we have to wait until January for the premiere, I wonder how much we'll get at Comic Con. Would they have the whole pilot? or just a teaser? What did they do for Terminator: TSCC?
MysticSlug, mid-season isn't connected to international markets. The production companies are the ones responsible for distributing their content. For instance, all shows produced by FOX are shown by FOX in Latin America. Network decisions are only linked to their own market. The cancelation or renewal of a show depends entirely on the original US airings.
According to Kristin, "According to Joss Whedon, Fox has ordered 13 episodes of Dollhouse."

GREAT NEWS!!!
Well, according to Kristin now, Fox has ordered 13 episodes of Dollhouse: source

Gomtuu: Does "midseason two-parter, namely episodes seven and eight" mean Fox ordered six more episodes of Dollhouse?
According to Joss Whedon, Fox has ordered 13 episodes of Dollhouse.


Edit: ricetxpeaches we posted the same info at the same time, hehe

[ edited by lovespyke on 2008-05-14 19:39 ]
Does anyone else really want to see the Dollhouse poster Joss mentioned months ago

Me, me. I want to see the poster. Something for my desktop while I wait.
Things just get better and better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I approve of the above double-posted good news.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2008-05-14 19:40 ]
lovespyke, LOL!
13 episodes. Well, that settles that then. Also, means it will most likely get picked up by one of the channels here, seeing as how we don't get FOX without sattelite and it isn't on broadband either.
3. Grey's Anatomy
4. The Office (US)


I don't think Joss not being the showrunner determines the amount of involvement he'll have with the series. He has a finished movie script (Cabin in the Woods w/ Goddard), an unfinished movie script (Goners), as well as Buffy Season 8 on his plate. If I had a TV show, that would be my priority, but if the Man wants to have some wiggle room to be able to work on more projects than that's okay with me.

In the end, Joss is the Boss on any TV show that has his name on it. I have faith that he will be as hands-on as he has in the past. Either that, or lots of Naked Spike.
He has a finished movie script (Cabin in the Woods w/ Goddard), an unfinished movie script (Goners)

Not sure that's the way to describe this. The only reason Goners might be considered "unfinished" is because the studio kept giving him notes. Cabin, were it to be picked up, would likely have the same thing happen. So if Goners is considered "unfinished", Cabin probably should be too, on that basis. ;)
Don't doubt Cabin so much, methinks.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-14 20:04 ]
13, awesome, not trying to sound like a downer but, why would FOX order 6 more episodes without seeing how the first 7 do in the ratings?
Perhaps they love what what they've seen so far (shrug)? Wishful thinking.
Very glad to hear of the Minear and DeKnight involvement - my favourite Angel writers.

Also Fain+Craft wrote amazing episodes -Souless,Release,Underneath etc.

Gonna be in good hands...
13, awesome, not trying to sound like a downer but, why would FOX order 6 more episodes without seeing how the first 7 do in the ratings?

Well, if they've ordered it for midseason, they probably just want to make use of the extra six months the team's got now. If they waited until it aired to order more, then they wouldn't have the new episodes in time to put on without some sort of hiatus.

And just saying the word hiatus makes me feel nervous about this.
Phew. Glad to see that the episode number is now up to thirteen. I don't know what I would've done if the show ended on part one of a two-parter, y'know? Anyways, that just got me pumped up.

I never would've thought Ms. Fain and Ms. Craft as being the showrunners, not that I'm complaining. I enjoyed their episodes on Angel and I'm sure they'll do a great job on Dollhouse as well. Good luck to 'em.
Hey, why not promote Dr. Horrible and Dollhouse at the same time, by making the premiere of DHSAB a benefit for Mission Echo, the new housing project?

Nope, no shame. None.

dreamlogic


You mean the fan organized effort to build a house has a name? Mission Echo? That sounds pretty dang cool!

Yes, I have no shame either.
Are we seriously trying to find a way to make a 13 ep order seem like a bad thing? :) I love you guys, really I do.
Just don't mention Britney Spears, zeitgeist.
Why? Don't want me to give away the resolution of the ep-7 cliffhanger where Echo walks out on stage and...



                            !!!Pie Spoiler!!!




...IS Britney?
If we have to wait until January for the premiere, I wonder how much we'll get at Comic Con

If there is anything happening at Comic-Con for Dollhouse, you can expect the California Browncoats to be helping out. Plus, you can expect Dr. Horrible promotion type stuff to be happening as well. We meant it when we put "to promote Firefly and Serenity and their fandom, cast and crew through charitable works" in our mission statement.
Patience for a fandom is a bit like a mother's love right zeitgeist? I'm glad that there's a 13 ep order, yay. And as far as the mid-season news goes: we all know this is going to be the most awesome hour of TV ever so the details really don't matter. Anyone who views it will become enthralled and be blissed-out for days after consumption. It will be like TV crack, televrack, so we have no need to worry about anything. That's my story anyways and I refuse to unstick from it. ;)
I'm still glad its midseason even though that means we have to wait longer. It will have less competition and less chance of getting lost in the shuffle.
FOX has ordered 13 episodes and there might be photos and/or a teaser today? Life is good. Don't care if I have to wait till January to see Eliza back on my TV. :-D
...IS Britney?

She also will be banned when I am dictator. That list seems to be getting longer every day.
Kasadilla beat me to it! 13 episodes have been confirmed by Joss.

Upfront Buzz: All Your Burning Q's Answered

It's about 1/2 way down the page.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2008-05-14 20:35 ]
It's about 1/2 way down the page.

And linked at least twice in this thread already. Heh.
13 episodes is damn good news.
Linked twice because who the hell can find anything in all these posts???
Linked twice because who the hell can find anything in all these posts???

Those of us who read the thread? ;)
13 episodes That is great news, I am hoping the January start will get many new faces watching, I too hope they pair it with 24. Even though Moonlight was definately no Angel I am sad they have cancelled it but it leaves Jason Dohring open to come on over to Dollhouse. Wouldn't that be a treat if Joss got JD and Michael M :)
I just can't wait til January, and I sooooo hope Fox does not screw this up.
Perhaps a mod could add the 13-episode link to the main post?
Yay, 13 episodes! At least I know I'll have more to watch in hospital after I've chewed off my own arms while waiting. I can't even think about the possibility of a trailer or promo stuff appearing or I'll start doing some real life squeeing and freaking people out.
Truebix, when you become dictator, will you be banning the use of converse on less than young people and late night popcorn attacks? I was just wondering because I have this thing...

I was also thinking that choclate fudge frosting on graham crackers would make a great national food.

And obviously, Joss' works should be a mandatory part of the national curriculum.

[ edited by MysticSlug on 2008-05-14 21:05 ]
theonetruedictator has a certain feel to it..
Pain reduces me to emoticons, gossi but - :D!!!
theonetruedictator has a certain feel to it..

I'd vote for him ... Wait a minute ...
I think some of us already did!
Joss wasn't the showrunner for the majority of Angel's run and that show ended up being better than Buffy. So, I'm not concerned. David Eick is Battlestar Galactica's showrunner, with Moore functioning as more of the head writer, correct? On Dexter Clyde Phillips was the showrunner with Daniel Cerone being the head writer. That might change now that Eglee (a former Shield writer/producer, like Fain and Craft) has taken over, but still. That has worked out pretty well for those shows.

Provided Joss is in the room (and, given that he's directing the first two episodes, he'll be on set), I feel pretty safe in the creative direction of the show.

He's going to be in the writers room, right?

[ edited by The Sandy Llama on 2008-05-14 21:59 ]
Personally, while I hate having to wait, I'm viewing the midseason start as a good thing. Plus... 13 episode order! Frankly, I was preparing to only ever have 7 episodes of the show. Being a midseason show means that 13 episodes will be filmed and ready for a DVD release regardless of ratings / network interference. I'm hoping for a nice Wonderfalls-esque season where we'll get a good mini-series with a beginning, middle, and end even if we never get our season 2.

Wow... I believe I'm being optimistic in my pessimism. But I'm sorry, after you're burned enough times (Firefly, Wonderfalls, The Inside, Drive) you become a bit more cautious about using the stove.

But here's crossing our fingers for another brilliant long living Joss series. I am beyond thrilled to have the master back in television. New Joss every week instead of every few years (movies) is the way I like it.

Please Fox. Don't screw this one up. Support a Joss show and you will discover that you have a keeper.
AnotherFireflyfan, you are so right!

If this becomes a Wonderfalls kind of thing it'll be ok, at least we'll get closure.

But I do believe Dollhouse will achieve more. I think FOX wants to make it a big hit. They want to make Eliza Dushku the next big star. It definetly looks that way, and it seems we'll be getting a lot of advertisement, it seems like it's being really well-planned. I'm totally in for the ride!!!

EDIT: To me, of all the actresses in the Buffyverse, Eliza is the one with the most star potential.

[ edited by danielgm86 on 2008-05-14 22:57 ]
Well, I'm just smiling ear-to-ear that Joss is happy working in the television element once again, I know it was a hard road getting back to this point. The past few years have been very bleak without Joss. Gosh, how we missed him!

Now, we must figure a way to pry Jane away from Ron Moore. Won't be easy, he knows talent when he sees it and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ron keeps her on with "Caprica".

Two men, a boy, a pry bar, and a small nuclear device? ;)
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ron keeps her on with "Caprica"

Although, last I heard, it was still an open question as to just how much Ron himself would be around for Caprica.
Those of us who read the thread? ;)

Reading a thread? Pish posh. You'll need to add that to The Rules.

He's going to be in the writers room, right?

I assume it would be extremely difficult, if not downright impossible, to remove him from it.
As much as I would love to see Jane write some Dollhouse, I've read the premiss for "Caprica" and it looks pretty interesting. It's probably the show I'm most excited about seeing in the not too distant future, behind "Dollhouse". It might make me a bad Joss fan but, I wouldn't mind Jane writing for either series.
I'm not impatient at all about this being a midseason starter.

How soon can I start having it beamed directly into my brain?
Right-ho. There's a two minute trailer pending for Dollhouse, titled 'Who Are You?'. I'm not sure exactly when it'll go online, but we've got a page up for it when it does.
Buffy episode Who Are You has been on my mind a lot with the concept for Dollhouse, and of course it's star so that seems like a great name for the trailer. Oh, and, eeee!
Right-ho. There's a two minute trailer pending for Dollhouse, titled 'Who Are You?'. I'm not sure exactly when it'll go online, but we've got a page up for it when it does.


It's like Christmas. Except better.
Agree, Leaf. I was also thinking "Superstar" and "Normal Again".

Damn, I'm really looking forward to "Dollhouse"!
Please get Jane for Dollhouse, Joss! And if you can't get a hold of her now, then, y'know, there's always Season 2. ;)

Love the addition of Steven DeKnight, too. Easily one of my favourite Buffy and Angel writers, with episodes like Dead Things, Seeing Red and Destiny.
If I remember correctly, it wasn't too long ago that episode 8 was being written by Joss's brother and his fiancee, even though there was only a seven-episode order. I wonder if they've been moved to another ep?

Also, what does consulting producer mean? Are they on staff?
Seeing Red? Fie! Jane, though, yes. :-) And Sandy Llama, got disagree with ya there that Angel was better than Buffy, though of course ymmv for all of us. ;-)

I do worry here. I take the tack that a midseason show faces problems because by that time viewers have built interest and loyalty in shows and are not always willing to switch to something new. And 13 eps is great, but they had 13 eps for Firefly, too, and look how that turned out. And I would prefer Joss being daily involved as showrunner more than "guiding light" but that's his call.
Steven DeKnight rocks! He wrote "Dead Things" :D

SMG hates it. I love it.

:D

Right-ho. There's a two minute trailer pending for Dollhouse, titled 'Who Are You?'. I'm not sure exactly when it'll go online, but we've got a page up for it when it does.


Oooouuh...

Eloquence is overrated :-p
I do worry here. I take the tack that a midseason show faces problems because by that time viewers have built interest and loyalty in shows and are not always willing to switch to something new.


Yes, but then again, Dana: less competition when it starts. And if it gets a good lead-in, it won't really matter that much either way. There have been midseason shows before, which have been succesfull, like people have cited in this thread. Am I worried Dollhouse might be cancelled? Yes, because that's always a possibility, with any show on any network. Am I worried more because it's a midseason starter? Nope, don't think it'd matter much either way, chance-wise. There's too much other (some of them random) factors to predict how it'll play anyway, untill it actually starts.

Now, if they put Dollhouse in a bad timeslot, and/or mess up the airing order or break up the schedule, then we can worry. But so far, I have faith in the new FOX-guy running things. His trackrecord seems very good. Also: I'm tired of being cynical about this whole process. I'm ready to fall for a new television show and geek out and maybe regret that later, but really... this should be the fun period. So I'm determined to let it be fun[1].

[1]I'm like on of those party-"nazi's": "have fun, or I'll kick your ass". I hate people like me.
While I am disappointed to hear Joss won't be the front-and-center showrunner, I suppose when actually reflecting back on all of his TV work he never really had that label attached to him despite being the guiding light and force behind everything.

So, hopefully it actually is not a negative even that is how I'm feeling at the moment for some odd reason (... must just be because there hasn't been a Jossverse on television for so many gaping seasons).
Steven DeKnight rocks! He wrote "Dead Things" :D

SMG hates it. I love it.

:D


Yus!

"But despite Sarah's reservations, Dead Things rates as the one for which Steve is most proud and his personal favorite of any episode he's written for either series. But he's quick to share his reasons why it's dear to him. 'Hats off to the amazing [director] Jim Contner for that episode. I thought he did an amazing job. And Lisa Lassek, the editor on that did just phenomenal work. Sometimes, you have an episode where everybody ''shows up''. The actors are spot on. The direction is great, the editing, the music, etc... That was just one of those episodes where everything just came together.'" (City of Angel, 2003)
Those of us who read the thread? ;)

Try those of you who have the luxury of time to read every word in this thread, b!x! The rest of us have lives... ;)
My expectations are set pretty low, so saying look how Firefly turned out doesn't freak me. I was worried that we could get a Drive situation, with only four or five eps filmed and then cancellation. It looks at least possible that all 13 episodes may be filmed, which means a DVD release, even if it's cancelled. That's nine or ten hours of Jossy goodness, the equivalent of four movies. As a worst-case scenario, that's not that bad.
"It looks at least possible that all 13 episodes may be filmed, which means a DVD release, even if it's cancelled. That's nine or ten hours of Jossy goodness, the equivalent of four movies. As a worst-case scenario, that's not that bad."

Really good point, nine or ten hours, thats more than we have gotten from Joss in years. From an optimistic standpoint, there is no bad here, we get 13 episodes or we get 5 seasons, but we know we are getting enough to sink are teeth into.

[ edited by RCM on 2008-05-15 10:59 ]
Here's hoping the 13th episode clears up somethings just in case... but still leaves stuff open for a hopeful future.
HI guys. Now I've read the whole long, long, long thread (burning eyes, auwwee). And lots and lots of discussion of dollhouse staff, BUT has anybody adressed the overwhelming question of what WE can do for Doctor Horrible? Look away from the pretty dolls, people and concentrate on helping the poor supervillain,... eh wait, his poor overworked creator, I mean. Really, the superficiality of you people. And you people call yourselves fans. Sheesch!

;)

Actually I find it a fascinating question. How do you promote stuff on the interweb? It's namely not selfevident. The web basically is already so overwrought with information and ads and whatever, that the users stay in their own rut mostly. So how do you win NEW viewers without resorting to criminally annoying spam and pop-up tricks? The mouth-by mouth thingy is slow and may not be enough. (Too the mouth-by-mouth thingy I also count fanpage and MySpace page, because to find it you have to know about it beforehand)

I mean: us here viewing Dr. Horrible is pretty much a given. But what are Joss' further plans for that blog? How about a poster contest, like for the Sarah-Connor chronicles. Gossi, you still awake?

OK, It probably was a Joss' joke (I don't think he's in need of help at all, as he's a crtified genius), but I'm still convinced that the usual methods of promotion don't take in this instance. Could be fun to hash this out. Shouldn't there be a thread on the fanpage somewhere, we can talk about this in some more detail?
The rest of us have lives...

It's a fair cop.
Dollhouse is expected to be paired with 24 on Mondays in January.

-- USA Today
To those kvetching over Joss not show-running... honestly I have only faith in Joss. He knows what he's doing, and if he's delegating, it's only to people that he trusts will do the job to his standards. He hasn't let us down before. There's no need to doubt; we haven't even seen a single episode (or that trailer... hurry up and post it!)

And as pessimistic as I sounded in my earlier post, I really am excited for this series. I'm merely saying - worst case scenario we get another Wonderfalls. Not a Drive, where we just get unceremoniously dumped and left hanging. Oh, and Drive was recent, is this new Fox-head before or after the Drive mis-handling? (Seriously, the show was only on for two weeks! Why not even show all 6 filmed eps before deciding whether to make more?)

Re: Dr. Horrible... I'd say tell everyone without being spammy about it. Social news sites like Slashdot and Digg would also be good places to submit it. And I'm pretty darn excited for Dr. Horrible too, especially after seeing how good Felicia Day was in The Guild (which I was late to the party for checking out, but glad that I did.) It's pretty cool that Joss is on the front-lines pioneering the direct-to-internet skip-the-network-middle-man model. I trust that Dr. Horrible will be amazing.

In summary: Yay Dollhouse. Yay Dr. Horrible. This is a good time to be a Whedon-ite.

[ edited by AnotherFireflyfan on 2008-05-15 02:52 ]
Dr. Horrible is going to spread online pretty much even if none of us lifts a finger.

Which is not to say no one should lift a finger, it's just to say that it's spread is pretty much inevitable.

I've got some notions about how to spread it offline, however.
Gossi, you still awake?


No, but you can leave a message after the *BEEP*... and he will get it when he wakes up.

As far as promoting Dr. Horrible, you post it here and then people share it organically with their friends. Post reviews of it on your blogs, mention it (casually, not creepily) to people in conversation. Pitch it as something fun/funny that they might enjoy not something THEY MUST WATCH NOW OR YOU WILL TIE THEM UP AND MAKE THEM!!! Really. And pitch it to people you think would truly enjoy it; its not for everyone, nothing is. If they aren't interested, let it be or beware the backlash (and the backslash! and the slashdot as well, oh and Rick Astley and or Natalie Portman/hot grits).
"But despite Sarah's reservations, Dead Things rates as the one for which Steve is most proud and his personal favorite of any episode he's written for either series. But he's quick to share his reasons why it's dear to him. 'Hats off to the amazing [director] Jim Contner for that episode. I thought he did an amazing job. And Lisa Lassek, the editor on that did just phenomenal work. Sometimes, you have an episode where everybody ''shows up''. The actors are spot on. The direction is great, the editing, the music, etc... That was just one of those episodes where everything just came together.'" (City of Angel, 2003)


Haaa, learned how to quote neatly!

I remember Steve saying that. "Dead Things" took not only Buffy as a character to a much darker place, but also the entire hero figure. I loveeeee it. And I love the song Out of This World too, it fit in perfectly with the episode.
As for how to go about promoting Dr. Horrible, AnotherFireflyfan mentioned the Slashdot and Digg, both of which are great ideas. Mentions on Myspace and Facebook pages and post on blogs will help get more of the word out. Does anyone know how to submit a new show on tv.com? It's not the most well respected place, but they have a section for Quarterlife and had it up before it went to television (and then disappeared). I would think that Dr. Horrible would qualify in the same way. If we could get Dr. Horrible reviewed/mentioned on places like Television Without Pity and Ain't It Cool and similar tv sites that would get it on the radar screen of a lot more people. Emailing questions/requests for information to Ausiello at TV Guide and Kristen at E! might get a mention and some links.

Then there's the print media (okay, they've got a web presence too, but who doesn't?), Entertainment Weekly and Wired have both been good about mentioning Joss' work in the past. And with Dr. Horrible being seen as something that's exploring the New Media Frontier, these types of publications might be interested. And some of the newspapers with larger entertainment sections might pick up on Dr. Horrible, if the buzz gets big enough or if someone knows someone who works at USA Today, The New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, etc. Anyone have any contacts?

Posts on various forums, any forums, where an appropriate thread can be started (most forums have off-topic boards...or is it most boards have off-topic forums? It's getting on near bedtime.) will be another way. I know people have the skills to create avatars and banners that can be used in forums and on blogs that people already post to. Someone's bound to write and post fan fiction (it's not for everyone, but it's for some) and that will help get the word out too.

And then there's the standard gorilla marketing: posters and flyers tacked up around college campuses, city centers, comic book stores, stuck into books in the sci-fi section of local bookstores and the like; caps and t-shirts so that we can wear the mesage around town; stickers and magnets for cars and such.

For other ideas, resurrecting the threads from when we were all geeked about promoting Serenity or getting the word out about the Writers' Strike wouldn't be a bad place to start.

And, to the person/people who run the Dollverse site, I love the fact that you've created a web page for a trailer that's not even public for a web series that we have no idea when (or where) it will come out.
resurrecting the threads from when we were all geeked about promoting Serenity or getting the word out about the Writers' Strike wouldn't be a bad place to start

Um, yes that would be a bad place to start, because people were not following those threads in order to later be spammed with unrelated promotional messages.

See, that's exactly the sort of thing that gets this fandom in trouble.
AnotherFireflyFan, Reilly joined after Drive. He hasn't even been with Fox for a year and this is his first development/upfronts and scheduling at Fox.
if someone knows someone who works at USA Today


Umm, Whitney Matheson at USA Today's Pop Candy blog (always a great read, btw) is a big Joss fan, so I imagine it'll make its way out to a wider audience there and through Kristin and other outlets (yes, Ausiello, I'm looking at you ;P). The most recent Pop Candy links to a Lost/BSG opening credits mashup! Doesn't get much better than that.
I can help promote it in Brazil, we have Buffy community online with over 2 thousand people, I'm sure people will take an interest.

But before we do these things we have to know the when, the where and the how, right??
"...because people were not following those threads in order to later be spammed with unrelated promotional messages. See, that's exactly the sort of thing that gets this fandom in trouble."

What trouble? I think it's a fine idea and not unrelated at all. Dr. Horrible: From the guy who made Serenity, created during the writer's strike...

What's the big deal?
Actually, I never confirmed a 13 episode order. But I will tomorrow. (which is in one minute -- oh. It's now.) I've spoken with the Fox brass and it's all going to be pretty exciting. As you shall read...

As for running the show, yes of course I'm running it, it's my baby, but one needs co-runners, cohorts, cohabitants, a Sundance (or two) to my Butch, a Tango to my Cash, A the-guy-with-the-nose-in-Weekend-at-Bernie's to my the-guy-from-Pretty-in-Pink-in-Weekend-at-Bernies. And those of you who underestimate Liz and Sarah remind me of the demons of the week who laughed at tiny Buffy.

The only thing that excites me as much as our staff is our cast. Seeing them work just makes ideas blossom from our writer minds (SPOILER ALERT for The Fountain) like little clovery flowers out of conquistadors (END Of SPOILER ALERT and seriously, you should see that movie. It rocks.) And Eliza can't turn off the awesome. I mean it. The army is sending in tanks.

See you on the internet. Then on TV, in theaters, and of couse in the funny papers. It's a good year. Bye-ee! -j.
Go to bed, dude. We'll send in the tanks. (The sleepy tanks).

Dear FOX, please order enough episodes to last into January. Love, Kevin.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-15 05:14 ]
What's the big deal?

I'm just saying don't go apesh*t. It inevitably pisses people off, as the more excitable portions of this fandom have been known to do. There are general rules of thumb online, and one of them is "a place for everything and everything in its place". It's generally frowned upon if everywhere you turn you're running into people pimping PR for the same damned thing at you.

(ETA a quote of who I was responding to, lest someone wig out thinking I was replying to Joss with this.)

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-05-15 05:27 ]
Hooray, Jossian confirmation!

Joss, I am certain I speak for all of us when I say we are very much excited about Dollhouse. Bring on the awesome!

[ edited by AnotherFireflyfan on 2008-05-15 05:18 ]
I'm totally excited about Dollhouse. And you all should be, too.

I've also just realised it's not that late in LA. Another thing to add to the list of things I suck at: maths. Yes, it's a plural.
I got a tank in my backyard, but I lost the keys. Does anyone know how to hot wire a tank?

I'd do anything to protect Joss, Dollhouse and Eliza, even using my tank.

That came out all wrong.

Yay on the confirm-y.

[ edited by crazygolfa on 2008-05-15 05:24 ]
So umm... how many times do I need to refresh before I get the trailer? (What, impatient? Me? Never...)
YAY! This announcement just made my entire day (and it's just 6:26am over here) Am totally giddy, and the prospect of having a trailer anytime soon?? Bring on the awesomeness of awesome!
I'm soo going to inform my peeps to let other peeps know to watch Dr. Horrible and Dollhouse, they just don't have an option :D
I've also just realised it's not that late in LA.

It's not that late a lot of places. You just live in the future. (Do they have the trailer yet, there, in the future?)
AFf, hold onto your hat. Since it's almost sleepy time in LA, I don't think you'll be getting a trailer quite yet. Soon. I promise. Unless I've been told lies again, in which case you get to go all Doomsday on my arse. (Neil Marshall's Doomsday = a live action Reaver movie near enough, by the way).

I've also heard the paired-with-24-thing on Mondays.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-05-15 05:31 ]
a live action Reaver movie

As opposed to the cartoon Reavers in Serenity?
Good God! I already can't wait for Dollhouse to be on my TV, and then Joss comes in and tells me that Eliza can't turn off the awesome.... I don't think I'll stop squee-ing. Ever.
Dollhouse is expected to be paired with 24 on Mondays in January.


-- USA Today


Oh noes! With a lead-in like that, they'll never get anyone to watch!
And just wait until they have the 24 cross over episode. Echo becomes a torturererererer, in this special episode of Dollhouse.
I think that means Dollhouse will be aired at 8 p.m. on Mondays since 24 usually airs on the 9 p.m. time slot, so Dollhouse will be the lead-in.
I'm willing to bet they do a big launch on a Sunday (I'm just guessing here) paired with AI or sports, then launch ep 2 on the regular slot. It draws people into the serial nature, hooks em in and gives you a big initial push. It also tells you very quickly if it's going to sink or swim, which limits financial risk.



I'm clearly not having sex right now.
I was a'missing the Jossir in all his ultra-busy, so huzzah.

And I be confused - do we expect the Dollhouse clip to come out of L.A., or out of the upfronts in Manhattan?

(And if anyone is having sex while they're posting in here, I don't wanna know about it so much as you might think.)
Joss is Butch! And yes, a good year.
(And if anyone is having sex while they're posting in here, I don't wanna know about it so much as you might think.)

Even if it made for an awesome quote?
There is always that, b!X - and don't think there isn't already a heading for them pasted into my "Best of Whedonesque" quote file, along with Pie Spoilers and my large family of imaginary children all named Jazz Whildren.

And I meantersay, it is so satisfying to hear that it's a good year for Joss. I'm remembering some other threads over the past few years when not so much, and even though he always sounds like a brave - and of course, funny - toaster, there was a tone, a flavor that usedta concern me.

Or maybe I just shoulda had kids so I could stop mama-henning grown-up type people.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-05-15 06:53 ]
My guess is that people with the clips are in LA and watching Top Chef like I am. Go Spike, you and your stupid hats.
13 episode confirmation and Joss telling us it's awesome (and reassuring the hyper among us that he's the Boss) - likely better than sex, even quote-y sex. (Which is what exactly bix?) Also the 24 time slot sounds good, at least it's not on a night where television goes to die. The only downer in all this is having to wait until January. I'll have to figure out how long exactly that is...
watching Top Chef like I am

Season two of The Wire here. Which, at times, is difficult since it keeps making me want to smoke, except I quit.
Loved season one of The Wire. I'm a little late to the game since I just finished it. (I also discovered that new vocab from The Wire does not seamlessly meld with my current lexicon - I just could not fit re-up into my normal life.;)
Since I just quit last fall, thanks for the warning on The Wire, bix.
I sincerely hope they don't do that thing where they show one or two episodes on Sunday with the next episode on Monday. I know more than one person who missed episodes of both Drive and TSCC because they had no idea when the regular night was. Or knew when the regular night was, but had no idea they had already missed the first two episodes. :( I don't know when that has ever worked, but seems like it doesn't work nearly as well as they think it does.

As far as promoting Dr. Horrible,


We don't need to. The media will pick up on it very quickly. It'll be one of the times when Joss won't need the fandom to help him.
I am just all kinds of excited, and I can't think of anything else to say. Just bring on January.

But first, the trailer.
At the beginning of this thread I was just sanguine (based on the imagined additional episodes for 'Dollhouse') but now, after a Joss post, I am jumping for joy! Considering that the strike was still in effect at the beginning of this year, we now have all kinds of happy to look forward to (in fact without the strike there might have been no 'Dr. Horrible'). I hope the brilliance of the show runners for 'Dollhouse' will help to insure that Joss will have time to film Goners and/or Cabin in the Woods if and when they are eventually green lit (Joss did say we would see his work in the theaters as well as on line and on TV!). It is all good.... (please God protect me from major disappointments).

And funnily enough it isn't even 11:30pm here in the Bay area (I didn't know that LA was later...).
(no shame, no shame, no shame)

Yeah, well, the conquistador turned into plants because he tried to concentrate the tree sap life force too much. He drank it, and poured it on his wound. That was too much. So he turned into plants. To not turn into plants, you want to spread the wealth. For example, you might want to help promote a project your fans are trying to do to build or rehab houses for those that need one with the catchy name "Mission Echo" so it can also promote your new series. Just a suggestion.

No shame. Yet I do want to turn into plants.
This just keeps getting awesomer and awesomer. 13 episodes! Joss post! Bring on January already!
I don't know when that has ever worked, but seems like it doesn't work nearly as well as they think it does.

Cabri, T:SCC premiered to record ratings for Fox on it's Sunday slot and went on to get renewed for a second season. I'd say that's a success.

Drive, on the other hand...

I disagree with you on Dr Horrible, Simon. I think the hardcore Whedonites will find it and buy it, but if he and his friends want to reach a really wide audience they need to be smart about it.
Made my fortnight! Can't wait to see the trailer, but the greedy thing I am, what about the promotion photos? Does anyone know if and when we're going to see them?
Effulgent, I've absolutely no idea as I'm nobodier than the average nobody, but the upfronts are later today in the US of A.
I think the hardcore Whedonites will find it and buy it, but if he and his friends want to reach a really wide audience they need to be smart about it.

Smart is the operative term, however.

If things play out as "those damned Whedon people trying to shove something down our throats" it will just backfire. It's got to be done in some other fashion.

But I don't think Simon is as wrong as you might think. The hook for the media on Dr. Horrible isn't merely Joss, it's Neil. The media loves Neil, and he's going to be why this gets some play.

I'm nobodier than the average nobody,

As if. At least you know people who know things. I don't know anything anymore.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-05-15 09:24 ]
Smart is the operative term, however.

I absolutely agree on that one, bix. The smartest thing they could do is get Jed or somebody to call you/the organisers about looking at some promotion in Can't Stop The Serenity, for example.
We don't need to. The media will pick up on it very quickly. It'll be one of the times when Joss won't need the fandom to help him.

Exactly. By all means tell "normal" folk about Dr. Horrible and point them to the URL/iTunes/whatever, sounds like a great idea but this is Joss Whedon we're talking about here, not some Joe Random plus it's exactly the kind of "new media" experiment that people will be following to see how it does - it's gonna get mentioned on blogs, in articles, it'll be reviewed (or at least mentioned) by mainstream (ish) critics, on Slashdot, Digg, possibly Sci-fi Wire etc. etc. Basically, if it's any good (which seems pretty likely ;) then word will spread like billy-o.

ETA: And cheers for popping your head in the door Big Man, good luck with your good year ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-05-15 09:32 ]
gossi, thank you for the reply. As I'm ignorant as far as entertainment lingo goes, does 'The Upfronts' mean promotional materials for media and / or marketing purposes?
Effulgent, everything I know about upfronts I got from Wikipedia. So I don't know much.
Well I'm glad the showrunning issue have been sorted by Whedon, good to see he's the main guy still.

I don't know if anyone else here posts on the Empire Magazine website but the amount of Serenity promotion did seem to backfire slightly. I agree that us Whedon fans shouldn't shove Dr. Horrible down their throats, mention it and see if people are interested instead.
Darn these time zones, i'm the last to know everything!
Anydoodles - whilst I tantrum severely I might add - this all sounds a mix of awesomes and minor negatives that get lost amoung the awesomes anyway.....im no mathematician (heck, I dont think I've even spelt that right and Im not gonna bother checking as it furthers my point) but that all still seems to equal awesome. So im chipper.

Also, promoting Dr Horrible? Let us look at an example of about 20 people I was hanging out with the other day: about a quarter heard Joss was doing this and proceeded to jump and scream. Another quarter heard "that captain guy from Serenity" was going to be in a web musical and we're pretty keen to see it. The next quarter heard that NPH was going to be a singing super villian and nearly imploded (thankfully they did not and will be tuning in when Dr Horrible is up)....and as for the last quarter, they saw how excited the rest of us were and figured they might aswel jump on board.

In short, I dont think theres really gonna be a problem promoting. There may a problem when we break this internet thing everybody seems so fond of, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it
Dave B, yeah, I remember those days. Fun times. (Although for the record I never actually posted on those forums. I think. I lurked).
I think the hardcore Whedonites will find it and buy it, but if he and his friends want to reach a really wide audience they need to be smart about it.


First wave of coverage

TV Guide, PopCandy, EW.com, Empire, Aint It Cool, Chud, Zap2it, Sci Fi Wire

Second wave of coverage

Variety, Hollywood Reporter

Third wave of coverage

AP, CNN, MSNBC, BBC News

Dr Horrible has several unique selling points. The media is going to lap it up.
Thirteen ep confirmation! Josspost!! DeKnight!!! I am speechless with joy.

And blessings upon Kristin, the most loyal and vocal of all jossverse loving media types with a platform that actually reaches beyond the internet fandom.
Off to do happy dance. ;-)
Just woke up to this big news. Wonderful posts all, thanks.

crazygolfa, I don't think tanks have keys. Start a war and they all start automatically.
Just got home from taking loved one to hospital (official verdict: fine?) and there's a beautiful sunrise and a Big Purple Post expressly to make me feel better. Thanks, life.
just got back to a 'series of tubes' view master. i don't normally do my farmer ted dance before 9:am, but what the heck.

you bring the tanks, i'll bring the guns! ...i'm flexing my arms here, get it?...hmmm, me fears the lack of visuals is diminishing my gun impact, as is my overall lack of guns...
Yay-is-me! By the power of awesome, Joss confirms more episodes of abode-with-the-dolls-in-it show! Double the yayness literally, as double the episodes! And prescence of purple ruler of Dollverse in such a recent post, am humbled and "Jubal"-ent!!!
I'm having Life on Mars flashbacks looking at the test pattern on the holding area for the trailer ;)

aleister.crowley.sings - please capitalize, it makes things easier to read.
Yay! Thirteen hours of Joss tv to look forward to!!! That is all. :)
gossi: Cabri, T:SCC premiered to record ratings for Fox on it's Sunday slot and went on to get renewed for a second season. I'd say that's a success.

T:TSCC didn't even win Sunday night despite a big NFL lead-in, and it bled audience on Monday, getting smacked down by Deal Or No Deal on its regular time-slot premiere. And this is a show with a huge built-in fanbase, larger even than Joss's. Some of that might be fans not liking the show, but I think some of that is simple time-slot confusion.

Whatever. If Dollhouse premieres on the 12th, we have 242 days to go -- let the countdown begin!!!
Joss, I have to say, although it certainly wasn't a waste of a couple hours I find "The Fountain" to personally be overrated (well, by those who rate it so highly as according to RottenTomatoes there aren't many critically-speaking)... hope that doesn't make me any lesser of a fan or human-ish being!
The Fountain is actually very interesting in the context of Buddhism which makes it doubly interesting that Joss mentions it in connection with Dollhouse. Comments like this and this show how it can all be tied together. Especially with regards to the Mahayana Buddhist concept of a bodhisattva.
And soup ;).

I actually don't think that's too reachy, the premise (as barest among others has very eloquently pointed out) fairly naturally lends itself to ideas about reincarnation and cyclical experiences (also, remember Joss is a huge fan of 'The Matrix').

... we have 242 days to go ...

I see in that number the noodley munificence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. 2+4+2 = 8, turn '8' on its side and you get ? Yep, the symbol for infinity - surely meaning 'Dollhouse' will last infinity seasons ? See, other deities may work in mysterious ways, with FSM it's all spelled out, clear as day. Really wish i'd bagsied the 12th now.
I've followed Darren Aronofsky's work myself, and I've always wondered - was the CU shot of Sweet's lips (when he says "showtime") in OMWF an homage to Requiem for a Dream? It seems appropriate given the parallel themes of addiction in Requiem and in season 6.
While i'm super excited at the idea of a two part episode from Tim Minear, i am slightly concerned what this means for his Miracle Man series, haven't heard anything about that in ages.
"Requiem for a Dream" is a superior piece to "The Fountain" in my little opinion.
I've read through this entire thread, honest! But am I missing something? Jossir said
See you on the internet. Then on TV, in theaters, and of course in the funny papers"
Internet is Dr. Horrible. TV is Dollhouse. Funny papers is the comics. What can we expect in theatres? Am I just too tired to remember something?
Ah yes the FSM is indeed munificent. Also there are no pesky letters soliciting donations for the Church of the FSM, so bonus. I'm glad you were able to divine the infinite season info though Saje. You're like the FSM's prophet on here on Earth.;)

I'm not sure Lioness, assuming it was literal maybe 'Goners' or 'Cabin in the Woods'. ?
I just want as much for Joss to continue his film career as his TV career (I have to admit, in some ways, his film career a bit more so since he still has only one movie behind his belt)... so, color me still hopeful that somehow, some way, both "Goners" and "Cabin in the Woods" will be able to move ahead.
This topic is sooooo over, but I have to say in catching up around these parts, kinda sorta:

a Tango to my Cash

Aiiiiiiieee ... Slaps Forehead with California heat wave sweaty palm -- I had almost rubbed it from my memory JOSS!!!

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